|
Consistency should be defined as beating the players you're better than and only losing to those that are the best.
I think it's pretty clear Huk has been doing exactly that. And there isn't a single protoss player (not 1) who has been more consistent than Huk.
Even someone like MVP hasn't been as consistent (even though he was won multiple times). Two seasons ago he lost to Zenio (dropped to Code A) and Byun (dropped to Code B). Is MVP now an inconsistent scrub?
No one is claiming Huk is the best. But he has been remarkably consistent. And you're blind if you can't see that. And this is where I end the discussion. Clearly your mind can't be changed.
|
It's too bad that this thread deviated away from the fun speculation of the new vids 
|
I got this line from IdrA's facebook. It was posted for less than 2 minutes then deleted when I attempted to comment:
10월 21일: 동쪽에서 보았다 http://notover.myeg.net/
Then the Horologium star lit up on the EG site.
I did a google translate and it says: "Oct. 21: East looked at"
It's not new news, we all knew IdrA will return to Korea.
|
On October 20 2011 14:32 InvalidID wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 13:54 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 13:31 hunts wrote:On October 20 2011 13:26 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 13:17 hunts wrote:On October 20 2011 12:20 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 11:53 Angelbelow wrote:On October 20 2011 11:33 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 11:22 Angelbelow wrote:On October 20 2011 11:16 woobsauce wrote:
I sincerely hope that the players from EG and SlayerS can get along respectfully, and that this partnership benefits both teams equally.
Will the teams train together, or will the two teams merely live in the same spot? Will people like Cella coach players from EG? Will the players have similar training regiments/cooperative practice?
I hope that this deal isn't out of financial desperation, as I seem to recall SlayerS mentioning that sponsorship contracts are expiring, and that they hope to have a good show this season to retain such contracts. If so, I hope that the addition of the EG roster to the clan house isn't terribly abrasive. Even if it is out of financial desperation its a deal that benefits both teams. Training with players like Huk and IdrA are great, but not to mention PUMA! Another strong terran for the Slayers terrans to practice with. Obviously IdrA and Huk would benefit greatly as well. Hm, I think its pretty clear that Idra, Huk, and Puma have a -lot- more to benefit from this in terms of training based on the track records of both teams. More so than the enormous benefit differential for both teams, I hope that practicing with SlayerS doesn't dilute the training of the SlayerS players. Think about it this way, if Slayers wanted to add more training partners... what caliber of players would be ideal? I wont deny that Idra, Huk and Puma have a lot to gain, but they also happen to be some of the best players in the world. Statistically Huk would be the best protoss player on slayers, Idra would be arguably the best zerg next to Coca. As far as diluting Slayers training... Huk is known to have great work ethic as does IdrA (when hes motivated, which he is now.) Stop hoping for the worse. Slayers isnt managed by a team of monkeys, they are extremely well managed and it shows in their passion and results. They aren't going to team up with EG if they didnt believe they were going to benefit as well. Btw, nothing is official, so this may not even happen =p Its not so much that I'm hoping for bad news, in fact I'm hoping for the opposite. I'm being rather cynical because I wouldn't want to see any damage done to the current think tank that is SlayerS. Though, nothing ventured nothing gained, etc. As for the "caliber of player" I'd want to see as training partners, I believe the people SlayerS thanks in interviews will answer that. Ex: when MMA trains - he trains TvT vs Ryung, Byun, GanZi, etc. There is not a single player in EG capable of filling those shoes. I'm sure the foreigners will work hard, but whether their efforts will have the same benefit to SlayerS remains to be seen. I simply hope (if this becomes official) that this all ends up being a mutually beneficial experience for both teams, and that the foreigners carry themselves in a way that reflects well on foreign players/organizations. Noone capable of filling those shoes? You mean like how coca got demolished by bomber, and Idra took out bomber? Or how puma has won NASL over players like MC and sen? Or how huk just kinda owned MC theSTC and a bunch of others? The examples you provided do not exist in isolation. I think its important to look at their track records, instead of isolated instances of success. The level of consistency in success and innovation of the metagame between SlayerS and EG cannot be compared. My skepticism is not to be critical of EG, merely skeptical. Though, if you want me to be critical, I will be happy to oblige. Consistancy like huk being in code S still And consistantly winning foreign tournamnets thruout the year? Or howidra was in code S when he left korea and has been consistantly doing well in foreign tournamnets, outside of his couple month slump? First off, managing to cling to a code S spot isn't necessarily indicative of one's talent/ability. Let's not forget that Ensnare is still lingering, and Hongun/Kyrix/etc. have only recently departed. Huk's tenure in Code S has been more often tenuous than you would like to believe (and he was spared the hellish process known as the Code A qualifiers). Especially given that he has often had pretty reasonable/forgiving groups (generally). As for "consistently" winning foreign tournaments, what part of his tournament success has been consistent? His success in foreign tournaments has been spotty, and often fortunate. His win over Moon was (frankly) an atrocity from a competitive standpoint (also, moon beating Bomber? sigh), and his recent win at MLG was partially gifted to him from his seeding in group play, unlike the road that Idra had to take (having to go through another three tough matches only to be stopped by MC. That isn't to say that Huk's win wasn't huge, but the the lack of foreigner success since the partnership with GOM should help substantiate this point. Gom has sent very few Korean players each MLG (4 invites?), and often they are not always the most favored players in the world (Trickster? Really?). Yet, these players tend to dominate the tournament, and when huk finishes 5-8 no one bats an eyelid. When Huk beats two players not even in Code A currently (not to say TheStC isnt strong, I do believe he is), everyone goes hog wild. In fact, as I recall, GanZi (who is a strong player, but to many isnt a "strong" code S player [which is a damn shame in itself]) crushed Huk at MLG Anaheim, and managed to go all the way through the open bracket, and had to play extra matches just to run into Huk later (and eventually finished fourth!). The point being, that Huk's consistency has been anything but "consistent." Also, Idra's existence in Code S was quite some time ago, before a pretty drastic evolution of the game's skill cap and meta-game. His slump even in the foreign scene speaks volumes for what would've been his likely impending departure out of upcoming code S seasons. I maintain that these instances of success haven't existed in isolation, and though I do strongly believe that these players (EG players in particular) are slowly reducing the foreigner-korean skill gap - their recent success cannot be viewed in isolation. As an aside, I would love to see Stephano play/perform in Korea. Edit: spelling. I would love to see Stephano compete also-but if he sticks to his stated practice pattern of only a few hours a day, I doubt he will be near the top for long. Talent can only take you so far, as the early foreign BW stars proved. The Code S players may not have the flashiest play for the current metagame, but the long term players have a solid style that seems optimal to allow them to survive the assorted metagame shifts. How many code A/GSTL cowboys have we seen fall into disgrace the next few seasons. I don't see how you can call his win over Moon an atrocity, it was an ugly series but if you watch the games he outplayed him in many ways. It was not like he won every game with a broken build or something. And I am saying this as quite the Moon fan(I grew up on WC3). I don't think anyone is claiming that Huk is more successful then MVP or Nestea, as far as "sending the best Koreans" goes. Every time he wins a tournament people claim it is due to seeding, and I do agree he tends to under-perform when traveling, as his often terrible performances in Europe indicate.The fact of the matter though, is that he beats people other people lose to. I don't see how Idra's path was much harder-if he came from the open bracket or something I would understand, but he actually played less code S players then Huk. Huk 2-0ed the only player who beat Idra in group play-MKP in probably the shortest series in the tournament. Regardless, if you compare the performance of Huk or Idra to the typical code A or B'er I don't see how you could swing to any other side in terms of suitability for practice partners.
I thought the series was mediocre, and that based on ability and record in no way should Bomber have lost to Moon. I see Moon as a less than amazing Stacraft 2 player by modern standards. Though he may be a nerd-god in WC3, as it stands, there is a reason he isn't in Code A/S.
Also, in regards to MLG Orlando - I was saying that though Huk had a very amazing in at MLG, he would not have beaten Bomber. Poor Idra had to go through a number of extra players that would have given Huk a heart attack to play. Idra losing the #1 seed in his group gave him a far, far more difficult path to success than Huk being awarded his #1 seed. No, I'm not going to critique the seeding system they used, but I think that Huk's success shouldn't overshadow Idra's fight to get into the spotlight. I feel that his struggle to succeed after having to play so many more difficult matches, and having so many more opportunities to lose/be knocked out. Also, if I recall correctly, they both played two code S players, but Idra lost to MC in the end. :| Anyway, my point being that though Huk had an awesome win, the seeding helped him greatly. A bit part of the difficulty that Idra had to face was having to play so many more fearsome players, and having that many more opportunities to lose + tax his stamina.
|
EG just posted another video on notover.myeg.net
Idra Dead - GSL Tribute
We probably already know that EG will be teaming up with either SlayerS or Quantic in the GSTL, but could this possibly be hinting that IdrA will be competing in the GSL again?
|
On October 20 2011 14:45 DoomsVille wrote:
Consistency should be defined as beating the players you're better than and only losing to those that are the best.
I think it's pretty clear Huk has been doing exactly that. And there isn't a single protoss player (not 1) who has been more consistent than Huk.
Even someone like MVP hasn't been as consistent (even though he was won multiple times). Two seasons ago he lost to Zenio (dropped to Code A) and Byun (dropped to Code B). Is MVP now an inconsistent scrub?
No one is claiming Huk is the best. But he has been remarkably consistent. And you're blind if you can't see that. And this is where I end the discussion. Clearly your mind can't be changed.
Yes, you've ignored a number of my comments, but the following must be said since you have trouble reading properly:
Huk is consistent enough at times, but consistently mid-low tier in GSL. In foreign tournaments, frankly, plenty inconsistent. The appearance you have of him is that he consistently dominates foreign tournaments, but that is not the case. In fact, it is the opposite.
It is clear you've missed one my points, as I mentioned in my original posts that "isolated" instances of success cant be given 100% stock, much the same as MVP's slump isn't his measure entirely. My main point is that Huk has not been 100% consistent in his performances in foreign tournaments as you mentioned. To dismiss any of his lack of success as part of being "consistent" is actually logically baffling, and internally inconsistent. What you're saying is that when he loses - no big deal, he isn't really "favored to win" anyway but he will probably beat people he "should." However, if he does win, he is just a dominant foreigner. My only point is, in layman's terms for you, yet again: Huk is decent, but SlayerS can probably afford to be more selective.
Edit: Instead of dismissing me, granting me the intellectual discourse to prove your point would probably be a more effective way of getting your point across.
|
On October 20 2011 14:46 woobsauce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 14:32 InvalidID wrote:On October 20 2011 13:54 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 13:31 hunts wrote:On October 20 2011 13:26 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 13:17 hunts wrote:On October 20 2011 12:20 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 11:53 Angelbelow wrote:On October 20 2011 11:33 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 11:22 Angelbelow wrote:
[quote]
Even if it is out of financial desperation its a deal that benefits both teams. Training with players like Huk and IdrA are great, but not to mention PUMA! Another strong terran for the Slayers terrans to practice with. Obviously IdrA and Huk would benefit greatly as well. Hm, I think its pretty clear that Idra, Huk, and Puma have a -lot- more to benefit from this in terms of training based on the track records of both teams. More so than the enormous benefit differential for both teams, I hope that practicing with SlayerS doesn't dilute the training of the SlayerS players. Think about it this way, if Slayers wanted to add more training partners... what caliber of players would be ideal? I wont deny that Idra, Huk and Puma have a lot to gain, but they also happen to be some of the best players in the world. Statistically Huk would be the best protoss player on slayers, Idra would be arguably the best zerg next to Coca. As far as diluting Slayers training... Huk is known to have great work ethic as does IdrA (when hes motivated, which he is now.) Stop hoping for the worse. Slayers isnt managed by a team of monkeys, they are extremely well managed and it shows in their passion and results. They aren't going to team up with EG if they didnt believe they were going to benefit as well. Btw, nothing is official, so this may not even happen =p Its not so much that I'm hoping for bad news, in fact I'm hoping for the opposite. I'm being rather cynical because I wouldn't want to see any damage done to the current think tank that is SlayerS. Though, nothing ventured nothing gained, etc. As for the "caliber of player" I'd want to see as training partners, I believe the people SlayerS thanks in interviews will answer that. Ex: when MMA trains - he trains TvT vs Ryung, Byun, GanZi, etc. There is not a single player in EG capable of filling those shoes. I'm sure the foreigners will work hard, but whether their efforts will have the same benefit to SlayerS remains to be seen. I simply hope (if this becomes official) that this all ends up being a mutually beneficial experience for both teams, and that the foreigners carry themselves in a way that reflects well on foreign players/organizations. Noone capable of filling those shoes? You mean like how coca got demolished by bomber, and Idra took out bomber? Or how puma has won NASL over players like MC and sen? Or how huk just kinda owned MC theSTC and a bunch of others? The examples you provided do not exist in isolation. I think its important to look at their track records, instead of isolated instances of success. The level of consistency in success and innovation of the metagame between SlayerS and EG cannot be compared. My skepticism is not to be critical of EG, merely skeptical. Though, if you want me to be critical, I will be happy to oblige. Consistancy like huk being in code S still And consistantly winning foreign tournamnets thruout the year? Or howidra was in code S when he left korea and has been consistantly doing well in foreign tournamnets, outside of his couple month slump? First off, managing to cling to a code S spot isn't necessarily indicative of one's talent/ability. Let's not forget that Ensnare is still lingering, and Hongun/Kyrix/etc. have only recently departed. Huk's tenure in Code S has been more often tenuous than you would like to believe (and he was spared the hellish process known as the Code A qualifiers). Especially given that he has often had pretty reasonable/forgiving groups (generally). As for "consistently" winning foreign tournaments, what part of his tournament success has been consistent? His success in foreign tournaments has been spotty, and often fortunate. His win over Moon was (frankly) an atrocity from a competitive standpoint (also, moon beating Bomber? sigh), and his recent win at MLG was partially gifted to him from his seeding in group play, unlike the road that Idra had to take (having to go through another three tough matches only to be stopped by MC. That isn't to say that Huk's win wasn't huge, but the the lack of foreigner success since the partnership with GOM should help substantiate this point. Gom has sent very few Korean players each MLG (4 invites?), and often they are not always the most favored players in the world (Trickster? Really?). Yet, these players tend to dominate the tournament, and when huk finishes 5-8 no one bats an eyelid. When Huk beats two players not even in Code A currently (not to say TheStC isnt strong, I do believe he is), everyone goes hog wild. In fact, as I recall, GanZi (who is a strong player, but to many isnt a "strong" code S player [which is a damn shame in itself]) crushed Huk at MLG Anaheim, and managed to go all the way through the open bracket, and had to play extra matches just to run into Huk later (and eventually finished fourth!). The point being, that Huk's consistency has been anything but "consistent." Also, Idra's existence in Code S was quite some time ago, before a pretty drastic evolution of the game's skill cap and meta-game. His slump even in the foreign scene speaks volumes for what would've been his likely impending departure out of upcoming code S seasons. I maintain that these instances of success haven't existed in isolation, and though I do strongly believe that these players (EG players in particular) are slowly reducing the foreigner-korean skill gap - their recent success cannot be viewed in isolation. As an aside, I would love to see Stephano play/perform in Korea. Edit: spelling. I would love to see Stephano compete also-but if he sticks to his stated practice pattern of only a few hours a day, I doubt he will be near the top for long. Talent can only take you so far, as the early foreign BW stars proved. The Code S players may not have the flashiest play for the current metagame, but the long term players have a solid style that seems optimal to allow them to survive the assorted metagame shifts. How many code A/GSTL cowboys have we seen fall into disgrace the next few seasons. I don't see how you can call his win over Moon an atrocity, it was an ugly series but if you watch the games he outplayed him in many ways. It was not like he won every game with a broken build or something. And I am saying this as quite the Moon fan(I grew up on WC3). I don't think anyone is claiming that Huk is more successful then MVP or Nestea, as far as "sending the best Koreans" goes. Every time he wins a tournament people claim it is due to seeding, and I do agree he tends to under-perform when traveling, as his often terrible performances in Europe indicate.The fact of the matter though, is that he beats people other people lose to. I don't see how Idra's path was much harder-if he came from the open bracket or something I would understand, but he actually played less code S players then Huk. Huk 2-0ed the only player who beat Idra in group play-MKP in probably the shortest series in the tournament. Regardless, if you compare the performance of Huk or Idra to the typical code A or B'er I don't see how you could swing to any other side in terms of suitability for practice partners. I thought the series was mediocre, and that based on ability and record in no way should Bomber have lost to Moon. I see Moon as a less than amazing Stacraft 2 player by modern standards. Though he may be a nerd-god in WC3, as it stands, there is a reason he isn't in Code A/S. Also, in regards to MLG Orlando - I was saying that though Huk had a very amazing in at MLG, he would not have beaten Bomber. Poor Idra had to go through a number of extra players that would have given Huk a heart attack to play. Idra losing the #1 seed in his group gave him a far, far more difficult path to success than Huk being awarded his #1 seed. No, I'm not going to critique the seeding system they used, but I think that Huk's success shouldn't overshadow Idra's fight to get into the spotlight. I feel that his struggle to succeed after having to play so many more difficult matches, and having so many more opportunities to lose/be knocked out. Also, if I recall correctly, they both played two code S players, but Idra lost to MC in the end. :| Anyway, my point being that though Huk had an awesome win, the seeding helped him greatly. A bit part of the difficulty that Idra had to face was having to play so many more fearsome players, and having that many more opportunities to lose + tax his stamina.
But IdrA wouldn't have had to face any of those players, if he had beat MKP, he would have played Huk in the championship brackets. Instead, MKP beat Idra and Huk basically had a walkover to the victory, after theSTC stomped Bomber, but because Huk beat MKP I don't see how you could say he had an easier bracket-I would probably give Huk the edge over anyone in Idra's group, while if you put IdrA in Huks group with MC and Hero, I would give MC and Hero both the edge. Granted this boils down to specific MA strengths-MKP is as far as I can remember fairly weak at TvP, and IdrA has always been weak at ZvP, but in terms of pools they were fairly balanced. I would obviously give IdrA the advantage over Bomber compared to Huk both with the current TvP metagame vs TvZ and with IdrAs apperent strength in the MA.
Arguably Bomber had the hardest pool with Puma, Sase, and Sheth, but he had a full days rest so it is irrelevant to Sundays results.
|
IdrA has already said he'll compete in the GSL again 
Why wouldn't he if he's in Korea?
These videos are much less cryptic than the first hype campaign. Makes it less fun to speculate
|
On October 20 2011 14:35 woobsauce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 14:05 DoomsVille wrote:On October 20 2011 13:54 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 13:31 hunts wrote:On October 20 2011 13:26 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 13:17 hunts wrote:On October 20 2011 12:20 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 11:53 Angelbelow wrote:On October 20 2011 11:33 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 11:22 Angelbelow wrote:
[quote]
Even if it is out of financial desperation its a deal that benefits both teams. Training with players like Huk and IdrA are great, but not to mention PUMA! Another strong terran for the Slayers terrans to practice with. Obviously IdrA and Huk would benefit greatly as well. Hm, I think its pretty clear that Idra, Huk, and Puma have a -lot- more to benefit from this in terms of training based on the track records of both teams. More so than the enormous benefit differential for both teams, I hope that practicing with SlayerS doesn't dilute the training of the SlayerS players. Think about it this way, if Slayers wanted to add more training partners... what caliber of players would be ideal? I wont deny that Idra, Huk and Puma have a lot to gain, but they also happen to be some of the best players in the world. Statistically Huk would be the best protoss player on slayers, Idra would be arguably the best zerg next to Coca. As far as diluting Slayers training... Huk is known to have great work ethic as does IdrA (when hes motivated, which he is now.) Stop hoping for the worse. Slayers isnt managed by a team of monkeys, they are extremely well managed and it shows in their passion and results. They aren't going to team up with EG if they didnt believe they were going to benefit as well. Btw, nothing is official, so this may not even happen =p Its not so much that I'm hoping for bad news, in fact I'm hoping for the opposite. I'm being rather cynical because I wouldn't want to see any damage done to the current think tank that is SlayerS. Though, nothing ventured nothing gained, etc. As for the "caliber of player" I'd want to see as training partners, I believe the people SlayerS thanks in interviews will answer that. Ex: when MMA trains - he trains TvT vs Ryung, Byun, GanZi, etc. There is not a single player in EG capable of filling those shoes. I'm sure the foreigners will work hard, but whether their efforts will have the same benefit to SlayerS remains to be seen. I simply hope (if this becomes official) that this all ends up being a mutually beneficial experience for both teams, and that the foreigners carry themselves in a way that reflects well on foreign players/organizations. Noone capable of filling those shoes? You mean like how coca got demolished by bomber, and Idra took out bomber? Or how puma has won NASL over players like MC and sen? Or how huk just kinda owned MC theSTC and a bunch of others? The examples you provided do not exist in isolation. I think its important to look at their track records, instead of isolated instances of success. The level of consistency in success and innovation of the metagame between SlayerS and EG cannot be compared. My skepticism is not to be critical of EG, merely skeptical. Though, if you want me to be critical, I will be happy to oblige. Consistancy like huk being in code S still And consistantly winning foreign tournamnets thruout the year? Or howidra was in code S when he left korea and has been consistantly doing well in foreign tournamnets, outside of his couple month slump? First off, managing to cling to a code S spot isn't necessarily indicative of one's talent/ability. Let's not forget that Ensnare is still lingering, and Hongun/Kyrix/etc. have only recently departed. Huk's tenure in Code S has been more often tenuous than you would like to believe (and he was spared the hellish process known as the Code A qualifiers). Especially given that he has often had pretty reasonable/forgiving groups (generally). As for "consistently" winning foreign tournaments, what part of his tournament success has been consistent? His success in foreign tournaments has been spotty, and often fortunate. His win over Moon was (frankly) an atrocity from a competitive standpoint (also, moon beating Bomber? sigh), and his recent win at MLG was partially gifted to him from his seeding in group play, unlike the road that Idra had to take (having to go through another three tough matches only to be stopped by MC. That isn't to say that Huk's win wasn't huge, but the the lack of foreigner success since the partnership with GOM should help substantiate this point. Gom has sent very few Korean players each MLG (4 invites?), and often they are not always the most favored players in the world (Trickster? Really?). Yet, these players tend to dominate the tournament, and when huk finishes 5-8 no one bats an eyelid. When Huk beats two players not even in Code A currently (not to say TheStC isnt strong, I do believe he is), everyone goes hog wild. In fact, as I recall, GanZi (who is a strong player, but to many isnt a "strong" code S player [which is a damn shame in itself]) crushed Huk at MLG Anaheim, and managed to go all the way through the open bracket, and had to play extra matches just to run into Huk later (and eventually finished fourth!). The point being, that Huk's consistency has been anything but "consistent." Also, Idra's existence in Code S was quite some time ago, before a pretty drastic evolution of the game's skill cap and meta-game. His slump even in the foreign scene speaks volumes for what would've been his likely impending departure out of upcoming code S seasons. I maintain that these instances of success haven't existed in isolation, and though I do strongly believe that these players (EG players in particular) are slowly reducing the foreigner-korean skill gap - their recent success cannot be viewed in isolation. As an aside, I would love to see Stephano play/perform in Korea. Edit: spelling. Are you kidding me? Huk in Season 5: only lost to MVP and Bomber. Huk in Season 4: lost to MC when he was nearly unbeatable in PvP Huk Super tournament: Lost to Polt (one of the best TvPers and eventual tournament winner) Huk up/down: Had to beat MMA to stay in Code S Huk Season 3: Lost to Inca (who was the best PvP at the time) and July (the shame!) Huk Season 2: Beat Revival, Curious and then lost to Code A winner LosirA In the GSL he has basically only lost to amazing amazing players. He hasn't dropped games to random scrubs that were on their way out anyways. Even this season, yea he lost to Virus... but Virus went on to almost take out NesTea right after that. I mean everyone he has lost to has got top 2 in a GSL before (except Virus). I'm willing to bet there isn't a single other player (korean, foreigner, terran, protoss, whatever) that can make that claim. Outside of Korea, Huk has won the most tournaments of any player (Korean or foreign) since his dreamhack win. Yes he was spotty before. And yes he has had some bad tournaments since... but as far as protoss players go, he literally has been the most consistent over the last 3-4 months. EDIT: Decided to go back further. You're missing my point. His only times of success have been vs lower/mid tier players in Code S, and even then his "success" has never carried him past the quarterfinals (which he has advanced to..once?). His lack of success and team have afforded him time and opportunities to travel and play in tournaments outside of Korea - a luxury that mid/top tier players in Korea rarely have, and when they do get such opportunities they often demonstrate the Korea-foreigner skill gap in a rather unforgiving way. Also, as for Huk's GSL track record: he managed to beat Revival and Curious (who were not nearly as fearsome as they are now), and beat Choya in up and down matches (whom is hardly as competitive as many of the players in Code A/S now). Losing go Inca and July is indeed shameful, as Inca's glaring weaknesses as a player caught up with him, and July's will soon, too. Proxy 4gating a player who is FEing (re: MMA) was hardly a demonstration of Huk's ability. Instead it can be read as a desperate attempt to hold his Code S spot. In the Super Tournament he managed to beat San 2-1 (woo, beat one of the most overrated players of all time) then lost to Polt (whose TvP is fearsome, but Huk's strongest matchup [supposedly] is PvT...). In July, Huk actually managed to make a splash by beating Alive and Killer (again, two mid-low tier players in Code S), but lost to MC (sadface). In August, Huk managed to beat Killer and Violet (a player many felt was beyond awful), yet again beating mid-low tier players in Code S (or people on their way out, as I mentioned before). Huk made his biggest splash by beating Nada, a solid mid-tier player at the time (but has since been fading in success), and eventually got annihilated by MVP. Finally, this season, Huk managed to yet again cling to Code S by beating Zenio (who has since been sent into Code A in embarassing fashion), and then losing 0-2 to Virus. None of these seasons really scream "success," and the reason he has had the means to travel to these tourneys is because of his fortunate team sponsorship. Also, Ironically, he has also likely had greater luxury to train -for- these tournaments because of his early losses in these GSL seasons. In an attempt to try to bring this conversation to a point that we aren't derailing entirely... Huk has not been quite as consistently dominant as you likely think, and though will probably make a decent enough a practice partner - SlayerS has picked otherwise because, frankly, they can afford to be more selective.
More selective? What other protoss player would be worth the pick up right now? Which other protoss has been more consistent than Huk? What other zerg is hotter than IdrA right now? There are none in the open market so teaming up makes sense. (Ex. its not like MC or Nestea would suddenly jumped to Slayers)
IMO, zergs are DRG and Nestea (quite easily above IdrA), but both are well established with their teams. So who else is there? Besides, if we've learned anything about these teams, they dont just practice exclusively with teammates. Pumas practiced with TOP, MC, and Zenio. IdrAs practiced with FD when he was still in Korea. Huk practiced with TSL Alive. MKP Practices with SaSe. A team partnership does not exclude practice beyond the team.
And again, Slayers team is known for their terrans and no one can take that away from them. MMA, ryung, ganzi have all reached GSL RO4 and same past that. They are damn good and will without a doubt help EG. But they dont exactly boast the strongest zerg or protoss lineups. Adding Huk and IdrA can only help (and with your argument, how much they can actually help remains to be seen, but there is no logical evidence that suggests that they'll detrimental.)
|
The videos have so far just all been about EG, their members, the date of the announcement, and korea.
Not much to speculate on anymore, but the videos are nice. The IdrA video always makes me laugh.
|
On October 20 2011 14:56 woobsauce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 14:45 DoomsVille wrote:
Consistency should be defined as beating the players you're better than and only losing to those that are the best.
I think it's pretty clear Huk has been doing exactly that. And there isn't a single protoss player (not 1) who has been more consistent than Huk.
Even someone like MVP hasn't been as consistent (even though he was won multiple times). Two seasons ago he lost to Zenio (dropped to Code A) and Byun (dropped to Code B). Is MVP now an inconsistent scrub?
No one is claiming Huk is the best. But he has been remarkably consistent. And you're blind if you can't see that. And this is where I end the discussion. Clearly your mind can't be changed. Yes, you've ignored a number of my comments, but the following must be said since you have trouble reading properly: Huk is consistent enough at times, but consistently mid-low tier in GSL. In foreign tournaments, frankly, plenty inconsistent. The appearance you have of him is that he consistently dominates foreign tournaments, but that is not the case. In fact, it is the opposite. It is clear you've missed one my points, as I mentioned in my original posts that "isolated" instances of success cant be given 100% stock, much the same as MVP's slump isn't his measure entirely. My main point is that Huk has not been 100% consistent in his performances in foreign tournaments as you mentioned. To dismiss any of his lack of success as part of being "consistent" is actually logically baffling, and internally inconsistent. What you're saying is that when he loses - no big deal, he isn't really "favored to win" anyway but he will probably beat people he "should." However, if he does win, he is just a dominant foreigner. My only point is, in layman's terms for you, yet again: Huk is decent, but SlayerS can probably afford to be more selective.
Ok, so we've established that huk is likely a mid-tier Code S player. And he consistently proves it. No arguments here. I never once said he was a top level Code S player.
As far as foreign tournaments, yea I agree, he hasn't been that consistent. Although I don't know what anyone else can expect given his ridiculous ridiculous travel schedule. You know in August he switched timezones literally 2-3 times a week on average. So fine, he was inconsistent and bad during that period.
I how can 3 different major tournament wins be considered isolated instances? You realize, to win MLG, he had to beat Code S players in MC, MKP, July. Plus he had to beat TheStC (who is almost definitely Code S level given his recent performances).
What more do you want from him to prove he is worthy of practicing with SlayerS lol. Is he only worthy if he wins a tournament and has the absolute hardest path to victory imaginable?
Moreover, you still haven't answered the simple question: What Protoss has been more consistent than Huk? Name 1.
Hint: There are none.
|
On October 20 2011 14:56 InvalidID wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 14:46 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 14:32 InvalidID wrote:On October 20 2011 13:54 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 13:31 hunts wrote:On October 20 2011 13:26 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 13:17 hunts wrote:On October 20 2011 12:20 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 11:53 Angelbelow wrote:On October 20 2011 11:33 woobsauce wrote:
[quote]
Hm, I think its pretty clear that Idra, Huk, and Puma have a -lot- more to benefit from this in terms of training based on the track records of both teams. More so than the enormous benefit differential for both teams, I hope that practicing with SlayerS doesn't dilute the training of the SlayerS players. Think about it this way, if Slayers wanted to add more training partners... what caliber of players would be ideal? I wont deny that Idra, Huk and Puma have a lot to gain, but they also happen to be some of the best players in the world. Statistically Huk would be the best protoss player on slayers, Idra would be arguably the best zerg next to Coca. As far as diluting Slayers training... Huk is known to have great work ethic as does IdrA (when hes motivated, which he is now.) Stop hoping for the worse. Slayers isnt managed by a team of monkeys, they are extremely well managed and it shows in their passion and results. They aren't going to team up with EG if they didnt believe they were going to benefit as well. Btw, nothing is official, so this may not even happen =p Its not so much that I'm hoping for bad news, in fact I'm hoping for the opposite. I'm being rather cynical because I wouldn't want to see any damage done to the current think tank that is SlayerS. Though, nothing ventured nothing gained, etc. As for the "caliber of player" I'd want to see as training partners, I believe the people SlayerS thanks in interviews will answer that. Ex: when MMA trains - he trains TvT vs Ryung, Byun, GanZi, etc. There is not a single player in EG capable of filling those shoes. I'm sure the foreigners will work hard, but whether their efforts will have the same benefit to SlayerS remains to be seen. I simply hope (if this becomes official) that this all ends up being a mutually beneficial experience for both teams, and that the foreigners carry themselves in a way that reflects well on foreign players/organizations. Noone capable of filling those shoes? You mean like how coca got demolished by bomber, and Idra took out bomber? Or how puma has won NASL over players like MC and sen? Or how huk just kinda owned MC theSTC and a bunch of others? The examples you provided do not exist in isolation. I think its important to look at their track records, instead of isolated instances of success. The level of consistency in success and innovation of the metagame between SlayerS and EG cannot be compared. My skepticism is not to be critical of EG, merely skeptical. Though, if you want me to be critical, I will be happy to oblige. Consistancy like huk being in code S still And consistantly winning foreign tournamnets thruout the year? Or howidra was in code S when he left korea and has been consistantly doing well in foreign tournamnets, outside of his couple month slump? First off, managing to cling to a code S spot isn't necessarily indicative of one's talent/ability. Let's not forget that Ensnare is still lingering, and Hongun/Kyrix/etc. have only recently departed. Huk's tenure in Code S has been more often tenuous than you would like to believe (and he was spared the hellish process known as the Code A qualifiers). Especially given that he has often had pretty reasonable/forgiving groups (generally). As for "consistently" winning foreign tournaments, what part of his tournament success has been consistent? His success in foreign tournaments has been spotty, and often fortunate. His win over Moon was (frankly) an atrocity from a competitive standpoint (also, moon beating Bomber? sigh), and his recent win at MLG was partially gifted to him from his seeding in group play, unlike the road that Idra had to take (having to go through another three tough matches only to be stopped by MC. That isn't to say that Huk's win wasn't huge, but the the lack of foreigner success since the partnership with GOM should help substantiate this point. Gom has sent very few Korean players each MLG (4 invites?), and often they are not always the most favored players in the world (Trickster? Really?). Yet, these players tend to dominate the tournament, and when huk finishes 5-8 no one bats an eyelid. When Huk beats two players not even in Code A currently (not to say TheStC isnt strong, I do believe he is), everyone goes hog wild. In fact, as I recall, GanZi (who is a strong player, but to many isnt a "strong" code S player [which is a damn shame in itself]) crushed Huk at MLG Anaheim, and managed to go all the way through the open bracket, and had to play extra matches just to run into Huk later (and eventually finished fourth!). The point being, that Huk's consistency has been anything but "consistent." Also, Idra's existence in Code S was quite some time ago, before a pretty drastic evolution of the game's skill cap and meta-game. His slump even in the foreign scene speaks volumes for what would've been his likely impending departure out of upcoming code S seasons. I maintain that these instances of success haven't existed in isolation, and though I do strongly believe that these players (EG players in particular) are slowly reducing the foreigner-korean skill gap - their recent success cannot be viewed in isolation. As an aside, I would love to see Stephano play/perform in Korea. Edit: spelling. I would love to see Stephano compete also-but if he sticks to his stated practice pattern of only a few hours a day, I doubt he will be near the top for long. Talent can only take you so far, as the early foreign BW stars proved. The Code S players may not have the flashiest play for the current metagame, but the long term players have a solid style that seems optimal to allow them to survive the assorted metagame shifts. How many code A/GSTL cowboys have we seen fall into disgrace the next few seasons. I don't see how you can call his win over Moon an atrocity, it was an ugly series but if you watch the games he outplayed him in many ways. It was not like he won every game with a broken build or something. And I am saying this as quite the Moon fan(I grew up on WC3). I don't think anyone is claiming that Huk is more successful then MVP or Nestea, as far as "sending the best Koreans" goes. Every time he wins a tournament people claim it is due to seeding, and I do agree he tends to under-perform when traveling, as his often terrible performances in Europe indicate.The fact of the matter though, is that he beats people other people lose to. I don't see how Idra's path was much harder-if he came from the open bracket or something I would understand, but he actually played less code S players then Huk. Huk 2-0ed the only player who beat Idra in group play-MKP in probably the shortest series in the tournament. Regardless, if you compare the performance of Huk or Idra to the typical code A or B'er I don't see how you could swing to any other side in terms of suitability for practice partners. I thought the series was mediocre, and that based on ability and record in no way should Bomber have lost to Moon. I see Moon as a less than amazing Stacraft 2 player by modern standards. Though he may be a nerd-god in WC3, as it stands, there is a reason he isn't in Code A/S. Also, in regards to MLG Orlando - I was saying that though Huk had a very amazing in at MLG, he would not have beaten Bomber. Poor Idra had to go through a number of extra players that would have given Huk a heart attack to play. Idra losing the #1 seed in his group gave him a far, far more difficult path to success than Huk being awarded his #1 seed. No, I'm not going to critique the seeding system they used, but I think that Huk's success shouldn't overshadow Idra's fight to get into the spotlight. I feel that his struggle to succeed after having to play so many more difficult matches, and having so many more opportunities to lose/be knocked out. Also, if I recall correctly, they both played two code S players, but Idra lost to MC in the end. :| Anyway, my point being that though Huk had an awesome win, the seeding helped him greatly. A bit part of the difficulty that Idra had to face was having to play so many more fearsome players, and having that many more opportunities to lose + tax his stamina. But IdrA wouldn't have had to face any of those players, if he had beat MKP, he would have played Huk in the championship brackets. Instead, MKP beat Idra and Huk basically had a walkover to the victory, but because Huk beat MKP I don't see how you could say he had an easier bracket-I would probably give Huk the edge over anyone in Idra's group, while if you put IdrA in Huks group with MC and Hero, I would give MC and Hero both the edge. Granted this boils down to specific MA strengths-MKP is as far as I can remember fairly weak at TvP, and IdrA has always been weak at ZvP, but in terms of pools they were fairly balanced. I would obviously give IdrA the advantage over Bomber compared to Huk both with the current TvP metagame vs TvZ and with IdrAs apperent strength in the MA.
Both of their respective brackets played a key role in their (respective) successes. I'm not saying Huk didn't deserve to do well. However, given that both players tied for first in their groups (in fact, a number of people managed to tie), I felt that the added merit of having tie breaker matches (BoX series) would've been a much more effective solution than the "seeding" method instead of having the seeding be based on who-already-beat-whom given that there were ties involved. I don't think this is the only way to answer this issue, and I won't derail the thread further by criticizing the MLG bracket system's merits or lack thereof.
However, I will say that a LOT of people are overlooking Idra's run at MLG because of Huk's success, when in reality Idra had to -claw- his way back up to the top. Given all of the additional matches that had to be played, and all of Idra's extra effort and success in his showing - he definitely deserved more than what he managed to get (and I'm not even an Idra fan!).
In my opinion, someone like GanZi solidified his position as a badass nerd-killer when he clawed his way to through the open brackets, went 4-1 in pool play with an amazing series vs MVP, and then continued onward to finish fourth despite all the extra matches he had to play. Having to play so many more games, and fending off the threat of cheese, nerves, exhaustion, etc. Is a tremendous demonstration in ability, drive, effort, and discipline.
|
hahahah, I had completely forgotten about that video. Makes it seem as if IdrA died in a plane crash or something.
|
On October 20 2011 15:00 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 14:35 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 14:05 DoomsVille wrote:On October 20 2011 13:54 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 13:31 hunts wrote:On October 20 2011 13:26 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 13:17 hunts wrote:On October 20 2011 12:20 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 11:53 Angelbelow wrote:On October 20 2011 11:33 woobsauce wrote:
[quote]
Hm, I think its pretty clear that Idra, Huk, and Puma have a -lot- more to benefit from this in terms of training based on the track records of both teams. More so than the enormous benefit differential for both teams, I hope that practicing with SlayerS doesn't dilute the training of the SlayerS players. Think about it this way, if Slayers wanted to add more training partners... what caliber of players would be ideal? I wont deny that Idra, Huk and Puma have a lot to gain, but they also happen to be some of the best players in the world. Statistically Huk would be the best protoss player on slayers, Idra would be arguably the best zerg next to Coca. As far as diluting Slayers training... Huk is known to have great work ethic as does IdrA (when hes motivated, which he is now.) Stop hoping for the worse. Slayers isnt managed by a team of monkeys, they are extremely well managed and it shows in their passion and results. They aren't going to team up with EG if they didnt believe they were going to benefit as well. Btw, nothing is official, so this may not even happen =p Its not so much that I'm hoping for bad news, in fact I'm hoping for the opposite. I'm being rather cynical because I wouldn't want to see any damage done to the current think tank that is SlayerS. Though, nothing ventured nothing gained, etc. As for the "caliber of player" I'd want to see as training partners, I believe the people SlayerS thanks in interviews will answer that. Ex: when MMA trains - he trains TvT vs Ryung, Byun, GanZi, etc. There is not a single player in EG capable of filling those shoes. I'm sure the foreigners will work hard, but whether their efforts will have the same benefit to SlayerS remains to be seen. I simply hope (if this becomes official) that this all ends up being a mutually beneficial experience for both teams, and that the foreigners carry themselves in a way that reflects well on foreign players/organizations. Noone capable of filling those shoes? You mean like how coca got demolished by bomber, and Idra took out bomber? Or how puma has won NASL over players like MC and sen? Or how huk just kinda owned MC theSTC and a bunch of others? The examples you provided do not exist in isolation. I think its important to look at their track records, instead of isolated instances of success. The level of consistency in success and innovation of the metagame between SlayerS and EG cannot be compared. My skepticism is not to be critical of EG, merely skeptical. Though, if you want me to be critical, I will be happy to oblige. Consistancy like huk being in code S still And consistantly winning foreign tournamnets thruout the year? Or howidra was in code S when he left korea and has been consistantly doing well in foreign tournamnets, outside of his couple month slump? First off, managing to cling to a code S spot isn't necessarily indicative of one's talent/ability. Let's not forget that Ensnare is still lingering, and Hongun/Kyrix/etc. have only recently departed. Huk's tenure in Code S has been more often tenuous than you would like to believe (and he was spared the hellish process known as the Code A qualifiers). Especially given that he has often had pretty reasonable/forgiving groups (generally). As for "consistently" winning foreign tournaments, what part of his tournament success has been consistent? His success in foreign tournaments has been spotty, and often fortunate. His win over Moon was (frankly) an atrocity from a competitive standpoint (also, moon beating Bomber? sigh), and his recent win at MLG was partially gifted to him from his seeding in group play, unlike the road that Idra had to take (having to go through another three tough matches only to be stopped by MC. That isn't to say that Huk's win wasn't huge, but the the lack of foreigner success since the partnership with GOM should help substantiate this point. Gom has sent very few Korean players each MLG (4 invites?), and often they are not always the most favored players in the world (Trickster? Really?). Yet, these players tend to dominate the tournament, and when huk finishes 5-8 no one bats an eyelid. When Huk beats two players not even in Code A currently (not to say TheStC isnt strong, I do believe he is), everyone goes hog wild. In fact, as I recall, GanZi (who is a strong player, but to many isnt a "strong" code S player [which is a damn shame in itself]) crushed Huk at MLG Anaheim, and managed to go all the way through the open bracket, and had to play extra matches just to run into Huk later (and eventually finished fourth!). The point being, that Huk's consistency has been anything but "consistent." Also, Idra's existence in Code S was quite some time ago, before a pretty drastic evolution of the game's skill cap and meta-game. His slump even in the foreign scene speaks volumes for what would've been his likely impending departure out of upcoming code S seasons. I maintain that these instances of success haven't existed in isolation, and though I do strongly believe that these players (EG players in particular) are slowly reducing the foreigner-korean skill gap - their recent success cannot be viewed in isolation. As an aside, I would love to see Stephano play/perform in Korea. Edit: spelling. Are you kidding me? Huk in Season 5: only lost to MVP and Bomber. Huk in Season 4: lost to MC when he was nearly unbeatable in PvP Huk Super tournament: Lost to Polt (one of the best TvPers and eventual tournament winner) Huk up/down: Had to beat MMA to stay in Code S Huk Season 3: Lost to Inca (who was the best PvP at the time) and July (the shame!) Huk Season 2: Beat Revival, Curious and then lost to Code A winner LosirA In the GSL he has basically only lost to amazing amazing players. He hasn't dropped games to random scrubs that were on their way out anyways. Even this season, yea he lost to Virus... but Virus went on to almost take out NesTea right after that. I mean everyone he has lost to has got top 2 in a GSL before (except Virus). I'm willing to bet there isn't a single other player (korean, foreigner, terran, protoss, whatever) that can make that claim. Outside of Korea, Huk has won the most tournaments of any player (Korean or foreign) since his dreamhack win. Yes he was spotty before. And yes he has had some bad tournaments since... but as far as protoss players go, he literally has been the most consistent over the last 3-4 months. EDIT: Decided to go back further. You're missing my point. His only times of success have been vs lower/mid tier players in Code S, and even then his "success" has never carried him past the quarterfinals (which he has advanced to..once?). His lack of success and team have afforded him time and opportunities to travel and play in tournaments outside of Korea - a luxury that mid/top tier players in Korea rarely have, and when they do get such opportunities they often demonstrate the Korea-foreigner skill gap in a rather unforgiving way. Also, as for Huk's GSL track record: he managed to beat Revival and Curious (who were not nearly as fearsome as they are now), and beat Choya in up and down matches (whom is hardly as competitive as many of the players in Code A/S now). Losing go Inca and July is indeed shameful, as Inca's glaring weaknesses as a player caught up with him, and July's will soon, too. Proxy 4gating a player who is FEing (re: MMA) was hardly a demonstration of Huk's ability. Instead it can be read as a desperate attempt to hold his Code S spot. In the Super Tournament he managed to beat San 2-1 (woo, beat one of the most overrated players of all time) then lost to Polt (whose TvP is fearsome, but Huk's strongest matchup [supposedly] is PvT...). In July, Huk actually managed to make a splash by beating Alive and Killer (again, two mid-low tier players in Code S), but lost to MC (sadface). In August, Huk managed to beat Killer and Violet (a player many felt was beyond awful), yet again beating mid-low tier players in Code S (or people on their way out, as I mentioned before). Huk made his biggest splash by beating Nada, a solid mid-tier player at the time (but has since been fading in success), and eventually got annihilated by MVP. Finally, this season, Huk managed to yet again cling to Code S by beating Zenio (who has since been sent into Code A in embarassing fashion), and then losing 0-2 to Virus. None of these seasons really scream "success," and the reason he has had the means to travel to these tourneys is because of his fortunate team sponsorship. Also, Ironically, he has also likely had greater luxury to train -for- these tournaments because of his early losses in these GSL seasons. In an attempt to try to bring this conversation to a point that we aren't derailing entirely... Huk has not been quite as consistently dominant as you likely think, and though will probably make a decent enough a practice partner - SlayerS has picked otherwise because, frankly, they can afford to be more selective. More selective? What other protoss player would be worth the pick up right now? Which other protoss has been more consistent than Huk? What other zerg is hotter than IdrA right now? There are none in the open market so teaming up makes sense. (Ex. its not like MC or Nestea would suddenly jumped to Slayers) IMO, zergs are DRG and Nestea (quite easily above IdrA), but both are well established with their teams. So who else is there? Besides, if we've learned anything about these teams, they dont just practice exclusively with teammates. Pumas practiced with TOP, MC, and Zenio. IdrAs practiced with FD when he was still in Korea. Huk practiced with TSL Alive. MKP Practices with SaSe. A team partnership does not exclude practice beyond the team. And again, Slayers team is known for their terrans and no one can take that away from them. MMA, ryung, ganzi have all reached GSL RO4 and same past that. They are damn good and will without a doubt help EG. But they dont exactly boast the strongest zerg or protoss lineups. Adding Huk and IdrA can only help (and with your argument, how much they can actually help remains to be seen, but there is no logical evidence that suggests that they'll detrimental.)
Truthfully, I would say that Puzzle and Alicia are stronger practice partners than Huk as is. Puzzle has had no more or less success than Huk (has gotten to the Code S Ro8 in his first Code S season, and won Code A). Alicia hasn't had the success he had a month or two ago, but he was in a number of very awesome seasons of GSL. Players from SlayerS do have the option of playing with virutally anyone, not just players on their team (much like your examples with MKP/SaSe, etc. and you make mention of this, thank you!). Right now they often practice with people from other teams, and I would say that a -lot- of zergs in Korea, inside and outside SlayerS would be more suitable practice partners (Curious, Revival, BoongBoonbprime [SP?], CoCa, etc.). As far as practicing with foreigners, I would say that Stephano would be just as good a practice partner as Idra, if not better given his recent success (again, this is pure speculation).
You are 100% right that my comments around EG being potentially detrimental are pure speculation. They could help, sure! Is it going to be the most effecient practice for team Slayers? Not certain, and that is where I make my cautionary questions. In fact, I think I mentioned that it was purely for the sake of caution and speculation, but so many people take such comments as heresy instead of offering discourse to say otherwise. Thank you for being amazing and noticing (seriously, I appreciate the discourse).
|
On October 20 2011 15:11 DoomsVille wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 14:56 woobsauce wrote:On October 20 2011 14:45 DoomsVille wrote:
Consistency should be defined as beating the players you're better than and only losing to those that are the best.
I think it's pretty clear Huk has been doing exactly that. And there isn't a single protoss player (not 1) who has been more consistent than Huk.
Even someone like MVP hasn't been as consistent (even though he was won multiple times). Two seasons ago he lost to Zenio (dropped to Code A) and Byun (dropped to Code B). Is MVP now an inconsistent scrub?
No one is claiming Huk is the best. But he has been remarkably consistent. And you're blind if you can't see that. And this is where I end the discussion. Clearly your mind can't be changed. Yes, you've ignored a number of my comments, but the following must be said since you have trouble reading properly: Huk is consistent enough at times, but consistently mid-low tier in GSL. In foreign tournaments, frankly, plenty inconsistent. The appearance you have of him is that he consistently dominates foreign tournaments, but that is not the case. In fact, it is the opposite. It is clear you've missed one my points, as I mentioned in my original posts that "isolated" instances of success cant be given 100% stock, much the same as MVP's slump isn't his measure entirely. My main point is that Huk has not been 100% consistent in his performances in foreign tournaments as you mentioned. To dismiss any of his lack of success as part of being "consistent" is actually logically baffling, and internally inconsistent. What you're saying is that when he loses - no big deal, he isn't really "favored to win" anyway but he will probably beat people he "should." However, if he does win, he is just a dominant foreigner. My only point is, in layman's terms for you, yet again: Huk is decent, but SlayerS can probably afford to be more selective. Ok, so we've established that huk is likely a mid-tier Code S player. And he consistently proves it. No arguments here. I never once said he was a top level Code S player. As far as foreign tournaments, yea I agree, he hasn't been that consistent. Although I don't know what anyone else can expect given his ridiculous ridiculous travel schedule. You know in August he switched timezones literally 2-3 times a week on average. So fine, he was inconsistent and bad during that period. I how can 3 different major tournament wins be considered isolated instances? You realize, to win MLG, he had to beat Code S players in MC, MKP, July. Plus he had to beat TheStC (who is almost definitely Code S level given his recent performances). What more do you want from him to prove he is worthy of practicing with SlayerS lol. Is he only worthy if he wins a tournament and has the absolute hardest path to victory imaginable? Moreover, you still haven't answered the simple question: What Protoss has been more consistent than Huk? Name 1. Hint: There are none.
I don't care about his "tournament consistency." That does not determine how good of a practice partner he will be, and is deceptive to his actual level of ability, and seems to obscure how good he really is in the grand scheme of things to many, many people.
Futhermore, his success after Korean players have begun to be invited has been far more minimal, and I will be happy to discuss the merits and lack thereof of his Dreamhack win, and as for MLG you can refer to my comments in prior posts (Eg. July is low-tier, MC is not great, and MKP is currently mid-low tier as of late).
As I just mentioned - Puzzle and Alicia are likely superior players, but have not necessarily had the success he has had. For example, someone like Puzzle (who has won code A, and made it to the Ro8 in his first Code S season) managed to make it to the quarterfinals multiple times during the IPL qualifiers and was narrowly knocked out, but Huk was fortunate enough to be invited directly. There is literally zero guarantee he would have even qualified given his level of ability, and having such opportunities to thrive feed in his "success." Imagine if someone like Puzzle, Nestea, MVP, MMA, etc. all were just "seeded" into such tournaments so flippantly. The levels of sucess for foreigners would likely plummet (eg. Blizzcon - its just fortunate enough that Blizzard only invites two players from Korea [Also, note the drastic lack of all around foreigner success once GOM started to have Koreans invited to MLG]).
My point is that though Huk is a great foreign player, SlayerS can find players of appropriate skill to train with as is, and don't necessarily "need" EG players to train with.
Edit: Wall of text, sorry - added spaces to clean it up a bit.
|
Idra had by far the easiest group in the tournament. Huk getting first in his group wasn't just some accident of seeding, he beat code s player after code s player to achieve it. Calling July mid-low tier is laughable considering he was in the ro4 just one season ago, as well as beating Hero during group stage this MLG, who many consider the best PvZ player on the planet, whereas Huk 2-0d him. How could anyone with any idea at all what they're talking about say that Alicia, code b superstar, knocked down by a foreigner to add insult to injury, is better than Huk?
|
On October 20 2011 14:58 DoomsVille wrote:IdrA has already said he'll compete in the GSL again Why wouldn't he if he's in Korea? These videos are much less cryptic than the first hype campaign. Makes it less fun to speculate
This might mean he's getting a Code S spot. Horologium is named after a pendulum clock. Pendulums swing back to their original positions.
|
On October 20 2011 14:55 Jimbo42092 wrote:EG just posted another video on notover.myeg.net Idra Dead - GSL TributeWe probably already know that EG will be teaming up with either SlayerS or Quantic in the GSTL, but could this possibly be hinting that IdrA will be competing in the GSL again?
He got top 4 at MLG so i think IdrA will get a Code A Spot in the GSL .. if i'm correct?
Can someone Confirm this.
|
On October 20 2011 15:41 sickoota wrote:
Idra had by far the easiest group in the tournament. Huk getting first in his group wasn't just some accident of seeding, he beat code s player after code s player to achieve it. Calling July mid-low tier is laughable considering he was in the ro4 just one season ago, as well as beating Hero during group stage this MLG, who many consider the best PvZ player on the planet, whereas Huk 2-0d him.
July's run in Code S was hardly impressive. He beat Ensnare, Genius, and Hongun who are all currently Code A (not Ensnare, but seriously who really sees him as Code S material?).
I also tend to agree with Wolf when it comes to MC. Much like Wolf for months I saw his decline in success coming, and don't really see him doing amazingly on his return - he will have to earn the right to call himself code S.
Also, to those who consider Hero the #1 PvZ on the planet grossly overestimate his ability (Sage?), especially considering he lost to YugiOh who is likely to be (on paper) one of the weakest players in Code S.
Again, I'm not trying to take away from Huk's win, but I do think that Idra had a brutal run in MLG, and it shouldn't be overlooked. Also, what does Hero's TvZ have to do with Huk having to play him in PvP?
|
United States23455 Posts
On October 20 2011 15:45 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 14:55 Jimbo42092 wrote:EG just posted another video on notover.myeg.net Idra Dead - GSL TributeWe probably already know that EG will be teaming up with either SlayerS or Quantic in the GSTL, but could this possibly be hinting that IdrA will be competing in the GSL again? He got top 4 at MLG so i think IdrA will get a Code A Spot in the GSL .. if i'm correct? Can someone Confirm this.
MC got the Code S spot.
Idra can be in Code A if he wants to be. There are no spots in Code S. Only way Idra gets into next season's Code S is if someone quits Code S and instead of running a tournament between the Up-and-Down players, they just give it to Idra.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
