On October 20 2011 15:53 michielbrands wrote: they combine that with pure raw skill !
No way.
Huk and Idra aren't pure skill. That would be closer to Stephano, whereas as Idra and Huk dedicate tons of energy and time to excel.
I would say Huk has always had tons of skill its just that the practice is teaching him when to retreat.
I don't think Huk's tons of skill would allow him to continue on winning. He definitely had that "pure skill" late 2010, but without his dedication he probably wouldn't have lasted.
Probably the same with Idra, kind of coasting on his BW skill and not really dedicating a lot of time to practice, but since the EG lair and the promised trip to Korea, he realizes that a lot of practice is an ingredient to being dominant.
I'm pretty sure most people will say the same about Stephano. He's dominating right now, and in 2 months he probably will be, but I doubt he will be dominating in 6 months if he is practicing for 3 hours a day.
Idra said on inside the game, that while stephano is good, he doesn't see him dominating for too long. He benefited by being unknown to most people with his style, so Idra thinks he'll be figured out soon and says we already saw a glimpse of that with boxer beating stephano at mlg. I tend to agree with Idra. Once people see more of stephano, especially the koreans, he'll be figured out in no time.
On October 20 2011 16:07 Sc2Requiem wrote: A new vid is up showing the goodbye montage IdrA received when he left GSL. With every additional "clue" it seems to reinforce that the TL community already has this all figured out yet again
We all knew that IdrA was going to Korea already is the issue.
On August 17 2011 01:10 EGalex wrote: HuK will make his EG debut later this week alongside EG.PuMa at the Intel Extreme Masters GamesCom tournament in Cologne, Germany, after which he will return to Korea to continue his Code S run under the EG flag/travel to EG's North American training house to prepare for MLG Raleigh with IdrA, PuMa, and the rest of the team. The details of EG's Korean training facility will be released in the weeks leading up to October - and don't worry, we won't put you guys through another countdown for that announcement .
On October 20 2011 16:07 Sc2Requiem wrote: A new vid is up showing the goodbye montage IdrA received when he left GSL. With every additional "clue" it seems to reinforce that the TL community already has this all figured out yet again
I won't be content until all the dots are filled.
And if we already knew, I will be disappointed. Or, something from left field will blind me with eternal glory.
swaag[hype]
it's silly to be disappointed. this is viral marketing, it isn't a mystery. people who get upset and disappointed are taking these things the wrong way
On October 20 2011 16:07 Sc2Requiem wrote: A new vid is up showing the goodbye montage IdrA received when he left GSL. With every additional "clue" it seems to reinforce that the TL community already has this all figured out yet again
We all knew that IdrA was going to Korea already is the issue.
On August 17 2011 01:10 EGalex wrote: HuK will make his EG debut later this week alongside EG.PuMa at the Intel Extreme Masters GamesCom tournament in Cologne, Germany, after which he will return to Korea to continue his Code S run under the EG flag/travel to EG's North American training house to prepare for MLG Raleigh with IdrA, PuMa, and the rest of the team. The details of EG's Korean training facility will be released in the weeks leading up to October - and don't worry, we won't put you guys through another countdown for that announcement .
oh I lol'd
I demand alex shave his head along with slasher for lying now!
On October 20 2011 16:07 Sc2Requiem wrote: A new vid is up showing the goodbye montage IdrA received when he left GSL. With every additional "clue" it seems to reinforce that the TL community already has this all figured out yet again
We all knew that IdrA was going to Korea already is the issue.
On August 17 2011 01:10 EGalex wrote: HuK will make his EG debut later this week alongside EG.PuMa at the Intel Extreme Masters GamesCom tournament in Cologne, Germany, after which he will return to Korea to continue his Code S run under the EG flag/travel to EG's North American training house to prepare for MLG Raleigh with IdrA, PuMa, and the rest of the team. The details of EG's Korean training facility will be released in the weeks leading up to October - and don't worry, we won't put you guys through another countdown for that announcement .
oh I lol'd
I demand alex shave his head along with slasher for lying now!
He is a man of his words, we have no actual countdown this time around. Just speculation on the day when they will release the info.
i'm sure someone has said this already but haven't been able to read all the new stuff about the latest video anyone else instantly notice the puma sweatshirt in the beginning of the video.
horologium is a small and faint constellation, so if we want to keep thinking each video is about a certain player then this could be puma since the sweatshirt is only in there for a short amount of time.
IT'S STARTALE!!! There I saved everybody the trouble of wondering. You just have to google the constellations in the picture, and the thing they all have in common is STARTALE.
On October 20 2011 17:09 Pandemona wrote: Tomorrow all will be revealed yes? Or is there no actual date and we have to wait until the stars fill up randomly?
Anybody been counting how many starts are revealed a day? Is it 2 or 3? I haven't been counting xD
It'll probably be announced on Friday during Blizzcon.
On October 20 2011 17:09 Pandemona wrote: Tomorrow all will be revealed yes? Or is there no actual date and we have to wait until the stars fill up randomly?
Anybody been counting how many starts are revealed a day? Is it 2 or 3? I haven't been counting xD
Why does it all seem to point in the direction of IdrA to Korea. 1. IdrA has been saying "I need to go back to Korea to learn to be good again" 2. The Hype Video 1 has "Then there were two" written in the background (ie. HuK and IdrA) 3. "Release the Kraken" video... Really?
There's my take on the clues. Although there is a lot of "team spirit" and pep talk type videos as well. Then inch by inch video makes me think they are starting with IdrA but slowly they will be moving more players over to Korea to join HuK, perhaps a GSTL team or something like that is possible.
On October 20 2011 11:53 Angelbelow wrote: [quote]
Think about it this way, if Slayers wanted to add more training partners... what caliber of players would be ideal? I wont deny that Idra, Huk and Puma have a lot to gain, but they also happen to be some of the best players in the world.
Statistically Huk would be the best protoss player on slayers, Idra would be arguably the best zerg next to Coca.
As far as diluting Slayers training... Huk is known to have great work ethic as does IdrA (when hes motivated, which he is now.)
Stop hoping for the worse. Slayers isnt managed by a team of monkeys, they are extremely well managed and it shows in their passion and results. They aren't going to team up with EG if they didnt believe they were going to benefit as well.
Btw, nothing is official, so this may not even happen =p
Its not so much that I'm hoping for bad news, in fact I'm hoping for the opposite. I'm being rather cynical because I wouldn't want to see any damage done to the current think tank that is SlayerS. Though, nothing ventured nothing gained, etc.
As for the "caliber of player" I'd want to see as training partners, I believe the people SlayerS thanks in interviews will answer that. Ex: when MMA trains - he trains TvT vs Ryung, Byun, GanZi, etc. There is not a single player in EG capable of filling those shoes.
I'm sure the foreigners will work hard, but whether their efforts will have the same benefit to SlayerS remains to be seen. I simply hope (if this becomes official) that this all ends up being a mutually beneficial experience for both teams, and that the foreigners carry themselves in a way that reflects well on foreign players/organizations.
Noone capable of filling those shoes? You mean like how coca got demolished by bomber, and Idra took out bomber? Or how puma has won NASL over players like MC and sen? Or how huk just kinda owned MC theSTC and a bunch of others?
The examples you provided do not exist in isolation. I think its important to look at their track records, instead of isolated instances of success. The level of consistency in success and innovation of the metagame between SlayerS and EG cannot be compared. My skepticism is not to be critical of EG, merely skeptical.
Though, if you want me to be critical, I will be happy to oblige.
Consistancy like huk being in code S still And consistantly winning foreign tournamnets thruout the year? Or howidra was in code S when he left korea and has been consistantly doing well in foreign tournamnets, outside of his couple month slump?
First off, managing to cling to a code S spot isn't necessarily indicative of one's talent/ability. Let's not forget that Ensnare is still lingering, and Hongun/Kyrix/etc. have only recently departed. Huk's tenure in Code S has been more often tenuous than you would like to believe (and he was spared the hellish process known as the Code A qualifiers). Especially given that he has often had pretty reasonable/forgiving groups (generally). As for "consistently" winning foreign tournaments, what part of his tournament success has been consistent? His success in foreign tournaments has been spotty, and often fortunate. His win over Moon was (frankly) an atrocity from a competitive standpoint (also, moon beating Bomber? sigh), and his recent win at MLG was partially gifted to him from his seeding in group play, unlike the road that Idra had to take (having to go through another three tough matches only to be stopped by MC. That isn't to say that Huk's win wasn't huge, but the the lack of foreigner success since the partnership with GOM should help substantiate this point. Gom has sent very few Korean players each MLG (4 invites?), and often they are not always the most favored players in the world (Trickster? Really?). Yet, these players tend to dominate the tournament, and when huk finishes 5-8 no one bats an eyelid. When Huk beats two players not even in Code A currently (not to say TheStC isnt strong, I do believe he is), everyone goes hog wild. In fact, as I recall, GanZi (who is a strong player, but to many isnt a "strong" code S player [which is a damn shame in itself]) crushed Huk at MLG Anaheim, and managed to go all the way through the open bracket, and had to play extra matches just to run into Huk later (and eventually finished fourth!). The point being, that Huk's consistency has been anything but "consistent."
Also, Idra's existence in Code S was quite some time ago, before a pretty drastic evolution of the game's skill cap and meta-game. His slump even in the foreign scene speaks volumes for what would've been his likely impending departure out of upcoming code S seasons.
I maintain that these instances of success haven't existed in isolation, and though I do strongly believe that these players (EG players in particular) are slowly reducing the foreigner-korean skill gap - their recent success cannot be viewed in isolation. As an aside, I would love to see Stephano play/perform in Korea.
Edit: spelling.
Are you kidding me?
Huk in Season 5: only lost to MVP and Bomber. Huk in Season 4: lost to MC when he was nearly unbeatable in PvP Huk Super tournament: Lost to Polt (one of the best TvPers and eventual tournament winner) Huk up/down: Had to beat MMA to stay in Code S Huk Season 3: Lost to Inca (who was the best PvP at the time) and July (the shame!) Huk Season 2: Beat Revival, Curious and then lost to Code A winner LosirA
In the GSL he has basically only lost to amazing amazing players. He hasn't dropped games to random scrubs that were on their way out anyways. Even this season, yea he lost to Virus... but Virus went on to almost take out NesTea right after that. I mean everyone he has lost to has got top 2 in a GSL before (except Virus). I'm willing to bet there isn't a single other player (korean, foreigner, terran, protoss, whatever) that can make that claim.
Outside of Korea, Huk has won the most tournaments of any player (Korean or foreign) since his dreamhack win. Yes he was spotty before. And yes he has had some bad tournaments since... but as far as protoss players go, he literally has been the most consistent over the last 3-4 months.
EDIT: Decided to go back further.
You're missing my point. His only times of success have been vs lower/mid tier players in Code S, and even then his "success" has never carried him past the quarterfinals (which he has advanced to..once?). His lack of success and team have afforded him time and opportunities to travel and play in tournaments outside of Korea - a luxury that mid/top tier players in Korea rarely have, and when they do get such opportunities they often demonstrate the Korea-foreigner skill gap in a rather unforgiving way.
Also, as for Huk's GSL track record: he managed to beat Revival and Curious (who were not nearly as fearsome as they are now), and beat Choya in up and down matches (whom is hardly as competitive as many of the players in Code A/S now). Losing go Inca and July is indeed shameful, as Inca's glaring weaknesses as a player caught up with him, and July's will soon, too. Proxy 4gating a player who is FEing (re: MMA) was hardly a demonstration of Huk's ability. Instead it can be read as a desperate attempt to hold his Code S spot. In the Super Tournament he managed to beat San 2-1 (woo, beat one of the most overrated players of all time) then lost to Polt (whose TvP is fearsome, but Huk's strongest matchup [supposedly] is PvT...). In July, Huk actually managed to make a splash by beating Alive and Killer (again, two mid-low tier players in Code S), but lost to MC (sadface). In August, Huk managed to beat Killer and Violet (a player many felt was beyond awful), yet again beating mid-low tier players in Code S (or people on their way out, as I mentioned before). Huk made his biggest splash by beating Nada, a solid mid-tier player at the time (but has since been fading in success), and eventually got annihilated by MVP. Finally, this season, Huk managed to yet again cling to Code S by beating Zenio (who has since been sent into Code A in embarassing fashion), and then losing 0-2 to Virus. None of these seasons really scream "success," and the reason he has had the means to travel to these tourneys is because of his fortunate team sponsorship. Also, Ironically, he has also likely had greater luxury to train -for- these tournaments because of his early losses in these GSL seasons.
In an attempt to try to bring this conversation to a point that we aren't derailing entirely...
Huk has not been quite as consistently dominant as you likely think, and though will probably make a decent enough a practice partner - SlayerS has picked otherwise because, frankly, they can afford to be more selective.
More selective? What other protoss player would be worth the pick up right now? Which other protoss has been more consistent than Huk? What other zerg is hotter than IdrA right now? There are none in the open market so teaming up makes sense. (Ex. its not like MC or Nestea would suddenly jumped to Slayers)
IMO, zergs are DRG and Nestea (quite easily above IdrA), but both are well established with their teams. So who else is there? Besides, if we've learned anything about these teams, they dont just practice exclusively with teammates. Pumas practiced with TOP, MC, and Zenio. IdrAs practiced with FD when he was still in Korea. Huk practiced with TSL Alive. MKP Practices with SaSe. A team partnership does not exclude practice beyond the team.
And again, Slayers team is known for their terrans and no one can take that away from them. MMA, ryung, ganzi have all reached GSL RO4 and same past that. They are damn good and will without a doubt help EG. But they dont exactly boast the strongest zerg or protoss lineups. Adding Huk and IdrA can only help (and with your argument, how much they can actually help remains to be seen, but there is no logical evidence that suggests that they'll detrimental.)
Truthfully, I would say that Puzzle and Alicia are stronger practice partners than Huk as is. Puzzle has had no more or less success than Huk (has gotten to the Code S Ro8 in his first Code S season, and won Code A). Alicia hasn't had the success he had a month or two ago, but he was in a number of very awesome seasons of GSL. Players from SlayerS do have the option of playing with virutally anyone, not just players on their team (much like your examples with MKP/SaSe, etc. and you make mention of this, thank you!). Right now they often practice with people from other teams, and I would say that a -lot- of zergs in Korea, inside and outside SlayerS would be more suitable practice partners (Curious, Revival, BoongBoonbprime [SP?], CoCa, etc.). As far as practicing with foreigners, I would say that Stephano would be just as good a practice partner as Idra, if not better given his recent success (again, this is pure speculation).
You are 100% right that my comments around EG being potentially detrimental are pure speculation. They could help, sure! Is it going to be the most effecient practice for team Slayers? Not certain, and that is where I make my cautionary questions. In fact, I think I mentioned that it was purely for the sake of caution and speculation, but so many people take such comments as heresy instead of offering discourse to say otherwise. Thank you for being amazing and noticing (seriously, I appreciate the discourse).
You obviously care a lot of the Slayers team and are a loyal fan. Something I can appreciate. On top of that, I don't feel like your arguments are overly emotional and unreasonable. Therefore, its been nice to have this discussion with you.
I just think that you may be unnecessarily cautious about the whole partnership. I don't think a team like EG could possibility make slayers any worse in terms of providing practice partners. And again, how much EG actually benefits slayers is arguable and to be determined.
On another note, this could possibility be a great opportunity for slayers too - not in a practice/increase in skill sense. What I mean is that they may not have the financial power to send their guys to foreign tournaments, and we know that major foreign tournaments are generous in both fame and prize money.. its about time slayers gets some consistent recognition in foreign tournaments (remember this is how MC got so rich.) I think guys like Ryung, ganzi, and MMA deserve more opportunities to earn some prize money then just the GSL. Perhaps EG can provide these opportunities.
Just a pretty far fetched 'speculation'. Incontrol tweeted that Machine and him got a Taiwanese copy of SC2 so they can play in a Korean server. Of course, everyone knows that the lag between US-KR is pretty "unplayable", so maybe they are just preparing for the trip to Korea in advance.
Basically nothing new, but thought it's nice to share it.
EGiNcontroL Geoff Robinson OH and a fan purchased a Taiwan SC2 account for me and @MachineUSA helped get the launcher going. I will now be spending time on KR server!
On October 20 2011 17:40 Sk3tch wrote: Why does it all seem to point in the direction of IdrA to Korea. 1. IdrA has been saying "I need to go back to Korea to learn to be good again" 2. The Hype Video 1 has "Then there were two" written in the background (ie. HuK and IdrA) 3. "Release the Kraken" video... Really?
There's my take on the clues. Although there is a lot of "team spirit" and pep talk type videos as well. Then inch by inch video makes me think they are starting with IdrA but slowly they will be moving more players over to Korea to join HuK, perhaps a GSTL team or something like that is possible.
Idra going back to Korea in october has already been announced months ago along with the Huk-signing
On October 20 2011 17:40 Sk3tch wrote: Why does it all seem to point in the direction of IdrA to Korea. 1. IdrA has been saying "I need to go back to Korea to learn to be good again" 2. The Hype Video 1 has "Then there were two" written in the background (ie. HuK and IdrA) 3. "Release the Kraken" video... Really?
There's my take on the clues. Although there is a lot of "team spirit" and pep talk type videos as well. Then inch by inch video makes me think they are starting with IdrA but slowly they will be moving more players over to Korea to join HuK, perhaps a GSTL team or something like that is possible.
We all knew Idra was going back to Korea. They said that when Huk joined EG ^^
EPT
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