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On October 15 2011 09:47 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 09:01 pezit wrote:On October 15 2011 08:09 Big J wrote:On October 15 2011 06:34 Emporio wrote:On October 15 2011 06:22 Big J wrote:On October 15 2011 06:16 ChoiBoi wrote:On October 15 2011 06:06 Demonace34 wrote:On October 15 2011 05:31 Emporio wrote:
I feel like both Corruptor and Broodlord are going to be removed from HOTS, the BL being replaced by this new unit thing and Corruptor either replaced by more useful anti-air or somehow buffed/changed to make them more than just an AA unit that is unless once you kill all the air/get tricked into making too many. Eh I don't see the BL being removed, it will just be a later siege type unit. I think that this might replace controlling units with fungal and move some type of infestor to T3 and have an intermediate caster at T2. I could see them changing it so that mutalisk morph into broods and taking out the corruptor for different AA. I'd honestly prefer a different T3 air unit, like a nerfed leviathan; a capital ship-style unit. Why? Broodlords are great! They are just better guardians, with a very swarmy feeling. I also don't see why blizzard should take out broodlords. I really don't think blizzard will take out/replace anything of the game that is being used in every MU and has been proven to be very balanced. Broodlords are like my favorite unit and I love the broodlings and messing with enemy AI mechanics. I just feel like the BL and this new unit, if it indeed turns out to be a seige tank-esque unit, are not very balanced to have together. Imagine if Terran still had their huge tank lines but instead of marine or hellion meat shields, they have a virtually infinite and free supply of buffer nuts to protect their tanks. I'm pretty sure that blizzard does consider such things. I mean, they took out the lurker because they said that it was overlapping with too many other units. The lurker... The unit others consider to be the most unique and best designed unit ever on this earth  There are really a lot of ways to design units. F.e. The Ultralisk and the Zergling are both rather beefy melee units for their costs. But the Zergling is just so vulnerable to splash, that it really can't be considered to be a tanking unit, while the ultralisk surely is. Did blizzard really take out the lurker because it overlapped with other units? I hope not because then they're even more stupid than I thought they were, and by they I mean Browder. Well the official statements to the lurker are stuff like: "The baneling was already a splash unit, the roach already a tank unit." "We really tried to keep it in the game because we really liked the idea, but in the end noone of us ever really utilized it." also there is the rumor, that the removal of the lurker has something to do with the hydra going to T2, because then the lurker would have had to go to T3... but then it was already "outdated" - which plays again in the same category... There was no unique use for the lurker. And to be honest, I really do think that it is a good thing to get rid of units, that overlap too much. Especially when it comes down to zerg, because as zerg there comes the point of the game, when most techs will be available and therefore overlapping techs won't see a lot of play, because one will just be better.
So assuming that you have all zerg tech unlocked, in what scenario would you choose banelings over lurkers? Burrowed roaches? Infestors? Ultralisk?
If lurkers were accurately represented in SC2, I personally would say that they would be superior in defensive scenarios while stuff like banes and roaches are good for aggressive ones.
Theres always going to be that optimal late game composition and lurkers not seeing much use by then is not necessarily a bad thing. Take mutas for example, often times they are not a great choice in the late game once opponents have alot of tech vs them, that by no means make mutas bad.
honestly I cannot see the lurker overlapping roles with any of the current zerg units, there are units that do one thing or another that the lurker can also do but it is in a much different way. Banelings do splash damage just like the lurker but its melee and they suicide, one time use. Roaches to me resemble much closer the BW hydralisk except without an air attack, they are somewhat of a cloaked attacker like the Lurker but they must uncloak to attack while the lurker doesnt. Infestors can do splash damage with fungal and can cloak attack with Infested marines while burrowed but this is all energy based which makes it completely different in use not to mention infested marines can still be dealt with without detection.
From my point of view the lurker was removed becuase the roach interfered with the way hydra and lurker tech worked in BW while also it overshadowed lurkers back then when it was 1 supply and fast regen.
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If Lurkers were unlocked too far into the late game, wouldn't the burrow/cloak aspect of them be heavily mitigated by the fact that static and mobile detection would already be on the field. Also, by that time, air units would be involved or ready to be involved at a moments notice. Then you have to factor in the cost of making Hydras into Lurkers, as well as the micro required to make them functional with the other Zerg units in play.
I loved the Lurker, but it would have a very narrow playable band in the game. And it would be similar to Brood Lords in terms of the negative impact losing one has on the Zerg player in terms of supply and money.
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On October 15 2011 15:25 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
If Lurkers were unlocked too far into the late game, wouldn't the burrow/cloak aspect of them be heavily mitigated by the fact that static and mobile detection would already be on the field. Also, by that time, air units would be involved or ready to be involved at a moments notice. Then you have to factor in the cost of making Hydras into Lurkers, as well as the micro required to make them functional with the other Zerg units in play.
I loved the Lurker, but it would have a very narrow playable band in the game. And it would be similar to Brood Lords in terms of the negative impact losing one has on the Zerg player in terms of supply and money.
whose to say it would come from hydras? certainly blizzard could change the requirements of a lurker at T3 to a lurker at T2 that morphs from a roach. This game doesn't have to be like brood war.
And who knows? Maybe hydras become T1 again and lurkers really do make a comeback. It's very hard to say what zerg does and doesn't need because each race isn't just getting 1 new unit, they are getting about 3 units each with other units being replaced. In the end, we won't know what kind of unit combinations will be possible until blizzcon because it's impossible to speculate what we don't know. While the lurker may not work in WoL, it certainly might work in HotS
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On October 15 2011 15:25 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
If Lurkers were unlocked too far into the late game, wouldn't the burrow/cloak aspect of them be heavily mitigated by the fact that static and mobile detection would already be on the field. Also, by that time, air units would be involved or ready to be involved at a moments notice. Then you have to factor in the cost of making Hydras into Lurkers, as well as the micro required to make them functional with the other Zerg units in play.
I loved the Lurker, but it would have a very narrow playable band in the game. And it would be similar to Brood Lords in terms of the negative impact losing one has on the Zerg player in terms of supply and money.
I think at some point lurkers aren't really useful for their invisibility but mostly for the aoe m&m deterrent. It's the same in broodwar, there's plenty of sci vessels around, but they made for good defense units that they're used throughout the game.
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Yeah, it was common for there to be all kinds of detection when Lurkers got out. They're essentially a siege / space control unit, burrow attack is really just an added bonus.
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I think the back will be a wall up/wall down unit for units to run up/down.
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Gonna' be nice if we get a siege unit, so we dont have to tech up to broodlings to out snipe things :-)
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On October 15 2011 09:52 julianto wrote:
Why is this taking forever to be revealed compared to the terran unit?
The Terran unit wasn't "revealed" either. People pretty much settled on what they thought it was, and that's it.
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I really hope it catapults banelings. There is something just so comical about that idea.
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On October 15 2011 08:57 Paper117 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 08:16 ReligionLOL wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gVxAU.jpg) I just got off the phone with Blizzard and apparently its a rock-lobster... whatever that means. Are you telling me it wasn't a rock?!
New zerg unit? Why not zoidberg?
edit: woohoo! new icon!
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come to think of it, it might be a unit that can puke out a special type of temporary creep that slows down enemies and gives a slightly faster regen to zerg units?
that way it can buff overall zerg's utility. just a random thought through
the idea is mainly from that it would buff hydra's utility in all the match ups and I highly doubt zerg will get a siege unit.
I won't even be surprised if infestors are removed and replaced by this unit which would be a spell caster
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On October 15 2011 19:38 ETisME wrote:
come to think of it, it might be a unit that can puke out a special type of creep that slows down enemies and gives a slightly faster regen to zerg units?
that way it can buff overall zerg's utility. just a random thought through
What... So in addition to infestor's FG which roots and damages units, they get another one?
Hmm, it would be fair since T has HSM spell splash damage (although gimped ATM) & siege tanks siege mode splash; P has colossi splash and storms.
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On October 15 2011 19:38 ETisME wrote:
come to think of it, it might be a unit that can puke out a special type of creep that slows down enemies and gives a slightly faster regen to zerg units?
that way it can buff overall zerg's utility. just a random thought through
Yea this thought crossed my mind too. Some unit that enhances the creep aspect and makes the need to destroy creep tumors even more imperative would be a fantastic idea and fits the zerg style perfectly. Would probably be hard to balance though.
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Since the baneling is kind of an anti ground scourge, this unit could be some kind of anti air lurker. Would be quite lame though. It would have to have a really long range to work as a air lurker.
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On October 16 2011 00:47 rzys wrote:
Since the baneling is kind of an anti ground scourge, this unit could be some kind of anti air lurker. Would be quite lame though. It would have to have a really long range to work as a air lurker mechlj
Yeah it would be, I don't really think zerg is struggling for anti-air right now. Maybe if it had 9-10 range it could be useful for taking down colossus (esp. if they are thinking of taking out the corrupter) but otherwise I think zerg has other gaps that are more pressing.
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On October 15 2011 15:00 DARKHYDRA wrote:
So assuming that you have all zerg tech unlocked, in what scenario would you choose banelings over lurkers? Burrowed roaches? Infestors? Ultralisk?
Make lurkers do splash and bonus to armored, so banelings are still better for light units like marines.
So if you were going roach/hydra, lurker is your ultralisk.
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On October 15 2011 21:07 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 19:38 ETisME wrote:
come to think of it, it might be a unit that can puke out a special type of creep that slows down enemies and gives a slightly faster regen to zerg units?
that way it can buff overall zerg's utility. just a random thought through What... So in addition to infestor's FG which roots and damages units, they get another one? Hmm, it would be fair since T has HSM spell splash damage (although gimped ATM) & siege tanks siege mode splash; P has colossi splash and storms.
and who is to say the infestor will stay? I keep trying to remind people that the unit combinations in HotS is going to change. We may still have roach/ling but I doubt we'll still have infestor/broodlord combinations, especially if they are adding a siege unit. If we get ANY kind of siege unit, I doubt the infestor will stay, I mean imagine fungal and lurkers in the same game, we'd never need T3.
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what happened to the new protoss unit? wasn't it going to get announced in oct 12?
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On October 16 2011 08:00 Soulish wrote:
what happened to the new protoss unit? wasn't it going to get announced in oct 12?
They're being announced on Mondays.
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If Hydras were somehow reverted back to their broodwar T1 status and they Added this possible Lurker or a "Lurker like" Unit into the game i would be really happy
Zerg Lacks a T1 basic Bread n Butter AA Unit Like the Marine or Stalker
Yes we have Queens but they are defensive units and cant assault an opponent that opens air
In addition Zerg lacks a unit that is able to contain the opponent early on and Zerg lacks a reliable splash unit. Yes we have Banelings but they die after being used and in many cases like this weekends MLG weve seen groups of Marines be replaced much quicker than banelings
but i really hope at the least it is a siege unit for zerg
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EPT
