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Has anyone else noticed that the Caduceus reactor (medivac energy upgrade) has a funny name?
The Caduceus is the staff surrounded by twin snakes, usually symbolizing gamblers, liars and thieves (it was held by mercury). It is often mistaken for the rod of Asclepius, which is a symbol for healing/medicine (a staff surrounded by 1 snake).
+ Show Spoiler [Caduceus] +
+ Show Spoiler [Rod of Asclepius] +![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Rod_of_asclepius.png) Rod of healing
So did Blizzard purposefully mix up the names, or did they make a mistake?
EDIT: I didn't play Brood War, but as someone pointed out in the thread (thanks, carbonaceous) the Medic Energy Upgrade was also called Caduceus Reactor. Could Blizzard have been in error without noticing for 12 years?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus#Misuse_as_Symbol_of_medicine
Common practice according to wikipedia
It is relatively common, especially in the United States, to find the caduceus, with its two snakes and wings, used as a symbol of medicine instead of the correct rod of Asclepius, with only a single snake. This usage is erroneous, popularised largely as a result of the adoption of the caduceus as its insignia by the US Army medical corps in 1902 at the insistence of a single officer (though there are conflicting claims as to whether this was Capt. Frederick P. Reynolds or Col. John R. van Hoff).[21][22]
The rod of Asclepius is the dominant symbol for healthcare professionals and associations in the United States. One survey found that 62% of healthcare professionals used the rod of Asclepius, while 76% of commercial healthcare organizations used the caduceus
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Maybe they are tricking you into thinking its worth getting that upgrade?
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Maybe they really like the movie Black Dynamite?
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In the United States people use the Caduceus as a symbol of medicine. It may be based on a historical mistake, but that's how it's used a lot of the time. Blizzard isn't trolling, they're going with ordinary usage.
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United States7483 Posts
I've figured out what the purpose of the upgrade is after watching Korean Terrans do this multiple times:
It's to fake upgrade cloak for your banshees, so that when you cancel it, you lose less resources. They see the tech lab spinning and assume cloak.
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The Caduceus symbolizes doctors and healers I think :o In France, doctors have a stickers on their cars to be able to park anywhere, the sticker is called a caduceus. (and it's the one in your first spoiler)
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Does anyone ever actually research that upgrade anyway?
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On October 10 2011 06:31 Icekommander wrote:
Does anyone ever actually research that upgrade anyway?
Nope, why would you?
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Its for so when you get feedbacked, you don't... oh wait.
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It's so you can use restore on FIVE units per medic instead of FOUR! =O
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Yea, regardless of historical mistake, it is nonetheless a recognizable symbol of medicine.
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That might be the case but recall in Diablo 2: expansion that there is a scepter for the Paladin that is called Caduceus http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Scepters . (you have to scroll down to the scepter it is under elite)
So they've got it right one time at least.
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It's to fake upgrade cloak for your banshees, so that when you cancel it, you lose less resources. They see the tech lab spinning and assume cloak.
You get refunded 100% for cancelling an upgrade. It's just that CR only costs 100/100 and that's much less of a deposit you have to make to fake cloak research.
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On October 10 2011 06:38 Elldar wrote:That might be the case but recall in Diablo 2: expansion that there is a scepter for the Paladin that is called Caduceus http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Scepters . (you have to scroll down to the scepter it is under elite) So they've got it right one time at least.
that one doesnt have ANY snakes on it.
unless its a caduceus of the snake I guess.
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On October 10 2011 06:41 caradoc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 06:38 Elldar wrote:That might be the case but recall in Diablo 2: expansion that there is a scepter for the Paladin that is called Caduceus http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Scepters . (you have to scroll down to the scepter it is under elite) So they've got it right one time at least. that one doesnt have ANY snakes on it. unless its a caduceus of the snake I guess.
Well, you can't mix symbolic symbols with "objects" anyway, but the naming is right. (it is named caduceus and it is a scepter/rod).
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This is a common mistake, even House doesn't use the right one:
![[image loading]](http://www.seat42f.com/images/stories/tvshows/House/house-caduceus.jpg)
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The pharmacist(apothecary?) and doctor here have almost the same emblem. Probably some medical thing.
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Epic picture of Dr House ^^
Maybe because most of the Terran units are ex criminals.
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actually, the House picture looks like a Asclepius but near the top turns into Caduceus, mirroring House's own Good/Evil contrast of personality and ethics. (maybe).
I wouldn't put it past Blizzard to make a bigass mistake like getting certain age-old images misinterpreted.
A really cool catch.
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On October 10 2011 06:29 OmniscientSC2 wrote:
Maybe they really like the movie Black Dynamite?
Oh my god, that scene is absolutely legendary. brb watching again
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Popcorn, do you have a peer-reviewed (NOT Wikipedia) source that states, explicitly, that the staff of Caduceus represents gamblers, liars and thieves?
I don't recall Mercury ever being associated with any of those "Guilds."
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On October 10 2011 06:29 OmniscientSC2 wrote:
Maybe they really like the movie Black Dynamite?
OMG LOL thread ends if you don't get this watch the movie please ><
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well this is strange o.o well i guess if you change tradition then the meaning changes too eh? though of course it still won't be true to its original
Maybe it's thievery to upgrade the energy, cus it means it helps your drops and dropping in a base harasses them, it's like marauding someone, it's like stealing... it's like thievery! whoa xD
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On October 10 2011 06:52 Bojas wrote:
The pharmacist(apothecary?) and doctor here have almost the same emblem. Probably some medical thing.
The staff of Asclepius was associated with doctors, or barbers (who often acted as doctors "back in the day").
In Greece there was a common parasite that would burrow under the skin. A doctor would make an incision, and use a small stick to twist the snake-like parasite out from under the patient's skin. Hence the reason the Staff of Asclepius has a single snake coiled around a "staff," which, in real life, was a tiny stick.
If you had one of those parasites, you'd know where to go to get it removed.
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On October 10 2011 06:30 Whitewing wrote:
I've figured out what the purpose of the upgrade is after watching Korean Terrans do this multiple times:
It's to fake upgrade cloak for your banshees, so that when you cancel it, you lose less resources. They see the tech lab spinning and assume cloak.
Please read the whole OP next time...
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Pretty sure thats even in the logo of a huge health care provider.
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love that upgrade in zvt, saves alot of supply and gas. (I actually let it finish when faking cloak  ) As the terran you don't need a fast heal but alot of heal, so really no reason to not get it.
And i agree on the missuse, but if the missuse was intended by blizzard or not will always remain a secret. But as long as blizzard keeps dropping their eastereggs into their games i will love blizzard . Games without eastereggs are no real games.
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Haha staff of thievery, I'm putting that into this RPG maker game I'm making. At least the name, it will be a cool lil thing 8)
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On October 10 2011 07:21 FunnelC4kes wrote:
Popcorn, do you have a peer-reviewed (NOT Wikipedia) source that states, explicitly, that the staff of Caduceus represents gamblers, liars and thieves?
I don't recall Mercury ever being associated with any of those "Guilds."
Indeed I do, in fact my Latin teacher (a Classics major) pointed this fact out to me. I later confirmed it on Wikipedia.
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On October 10 2011 07:55 Vei wrote:
Haha staff of thievery, I'm putting that into this RPG maker game I'm making. At least the name, it will be a cool lil thing 8)
Awesome! Glad to contribute ^^
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I agree with the first post that Blizz is just going with the common (incorrect) usage in US.
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On October 10 2011 06:27 caradoc wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus#Misuse_as_Symbol_of_medicineCommon practice according to wikipedia Show nested quote +It is relatively common, especially in the United States, to find the caduceus, with its two snakes and wings, used as a symbol of medicine instead of the correct rod of Asclepius, with only a single snake. This usage is erroneous, popularised largely as a result of the adoption of the caduceus as its insignia by the US Army medical corps in 1902 at the insistence of a single officer (though there are conflicting claims as to whether this was Capt. Frederick P. Reynolds or Col. John R. van Hoff).[21][22]
The rod of Asclepius is the dominant symbol for healthcare professionals and associations in the United States. One survey found that 62% of healthcare professionals used the rod of Asclepius, while 76% of commercial healthcare organizations used the caduceus
No, Americans know what it means. We just think doctors are a bunch of thieves :p
Sigh.... Someday we will have a good healthcare system. Someday
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On October 10 2011 06:29 OmniscientSC2 wrote:
Maybe they really like the movie Black Dynamite?
What I wouldn't give to upgrade my Dark Templar with Kung Fu Treachery.
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United States7483 Posts
On October 10 2011 07:28 The_Piper42 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 06:30 Whitewing wrote:
I've figured out what the purpose of the upgrade is after watching Korean Terrans do this multiple times:
It's to fake upgrade cloak for your banshees, so that when you cancel it, you lose less resources. They see the tech lab spinning and assume cloak. Please read the whole OP next time...
I read the OP, it was about whether or not the name is a mistake or intentionally wrong. I just posted a joke that was semi-on and semi-off topic.
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On October 10 2011 07:59 PopcornColonel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 07:21 FunnelC4kes wrote:
Popcorn, do you have a peer-reviewed (NOT Wikipedia) source that states, explicitly, that the staff of Caduceus represents gamblers, liars and thieves?
I don't recall Mercury ever being associated with any of those "Guilds." Indeed I do, in fact my Latin teacher (a Classics major) pointed this fact out to me. I later confirmed it on Wikipedia.
I read the Wiki post on the Caduceus, but it didn't have anything to say about its association with thieves or gamblers.
The original rod that Hermes was depicted with, the messenger's staff, or Kerukeion (sp?), was not the twin-snaked staff of the Caduceus. It was much simpler, but definitely different from the Caduceus. To be certain, there are images of the Caduceus found in Sumeria, egypt, even as far as Western Nigeria. The Shaman I've talked to in Western Nigeria have said it is a visual representation of the rise of Ase, Chi, or energy from the base chakra through crown chakra.
The Grecian art I've seen of Herme's had the traditional Kerukeion, not the Caduceus. Those that did have the Caduceus weren't seen until well after the Classical Grecian period--even the Roman period. Maybe the aforementioned association with the Caduceus happened sometime after that?
Edit: but that's been my research, maybe not the Classical understanding--your professor may know something I don't. Maybe vise-versa. Just using as a base of discussion.
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while we're at it we might was well deconstruct Blizzard's usage of the word "marine", which in the game is a guy with gun. However the word has mideval origins relating to the ocean and water. I wonder why they chose the name "marine" for a guy with a gun...
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On October 10 2011 08:25 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 07:28 The_Piper42 wrote:On October 10 2011 06:30 Whitewing wrote:
I've figured out what the purpose of the upgrade is after watching Korean Terrans do this multiple times:
It's to fake upgrade cloak for your banshees, so that when you cancel it, you lose less resources. They see the tech lab spinning and assume cloak. Please read the whole OP next time... I read the OP, it was about whether or not the name is a mistake or intentionally wrong. I just posted a joke that was semi-on and semi-off topic.
It was also semi-incorrect. You get 100% back for cancelled upgrades, so they use it to temporarily occupy less resources.
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On October 10 2011 06:30 Whitewing wrote:
I've figured out what the purpose of the upgrade is after watching Korean Terrans do this multiple times:
It's to fake upgrade cloak for your banshees, so that when you cancel it, you lose less resources. They see the tech lab spinning and assume cloak.
Lol, yea, I saw MMA do that today.
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They probably messed it up on purpose, but the medic energy upgrade was called that in brood war too, so whoever messed up the names is probably not working at blizzard anymore.
We will never know the answer to this mystery!
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On October 10 2011 08:47 slicknav wrote:
while we're at it we might was well deconstruct Blizzard's usage of the word "marine", which in the game is a guy with gun. However the word has mideval origins relating to the ocean and water. I wonder why they chose the name "marine" for a guy with a gun...
You're being unreasonably dismissive. A better analogy would be if someone used an old flag for, say the UK and someone's not sure if that was intentional. He's not 'deconstructing' anything, he's asking a legitimate question. Just because you might not care about it doesn't mean it's trivial lol.
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Listen up... the caduceus is the true symbol of medicine. The rod of asclepius may be used by fake dr's.... however the caduceus is the true symbol of real doctors, the ones who are not limited by one species. Veterinarians... the true doctors of the world.
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On October 10 2011 07:44 FeyFey wrote:love that upgrade in zvt, saves alot of supply and gas. (I actually let it finish when faking cloak ) As the terran you don't need a fast heal but alot of heal, so really no reason to not get it. And i agree on the missuse, but if the missuse was intended by blizzard or not will always remain a secret. But as long as blizzard keeps dropping their eastereggs into their games i will love blizzard . Games without eastereggs are no real games.
Me too! I actually try to get this upgrade in non-TvP matchups. 80s research = build time for 2 medivacs (well 84, but close enough), and once you're done, you can swap the starport onto a reactor and give the spare tech lab to a 2nd factory. Only reason I see that you don't want to do this if you're going for quick double drops and really need that 2nd medivac 40s earlier.
Nice find, OP! It never seemed strange to me though due to it having the same name in bw...
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I don't see why more people don't get this upgrade in TvP while making banshees early and switching to mm.
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On October 10 2011 09:25 Redmark wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 08:47 slicknav wrote:
while we're at it we might was well deconstruct Blizzard's usage of the word "marine", which in the game is a guy with gun. However the word has mideval origins relating to the ocean and water. I wonder why they chose the name "marine" for a guy with a gun... You're being unreasonably dismissive. A better analogy would be if someone used an old flag for, say the UK and someone's not sure if that was intentional. He's not 'deconstructing' anything, he's asking a legitimate question. Just because you might not care about it doesn't mean it's trivial lol.
The Caduceus is a commonly used symbol for things healing related. Asking why it's used as the name for an upgrade on a unit that heal's does seem kind of trivial.
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On October 10 2011 09:51 slicknav wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 09:25 Redmark wrote:On October 10 2011 08:47 slicknav wrote:
while we're at it we might was well deconstruct Blizzard's usage of the word "marine", which in the game is a guy with gun. However the word has mideval origins relating to the ocean and water. I wonder why they chose the name "marine" for a guy with a gun... You're being unreasonably dismissive. A better analogy would be if someone used an old flag for, say the UK and someone's not sure if that was intentional. He's not 'deconstructing' anything, he's asking a legitimate question. Just because you might not care about it doesn't mean it's trivial lol. The Caduceus is a commonly used symbol for things healing related. Asking why it's used as the name for an upgrade on a unit that heal's does seem kind of trivial.
But the point his making is it's incorrectly used. It might be commonly used, but it's still incorrect.
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Wait this is an actual upgrade?
I've played Terran since launch and I didn't know it existed.
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Makes sense, since the upgrade is used to trick the opponent into thinking they are researching cloak when they aren't.
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Personally I think the healing spell for medivacs should be added to the Caduceus upgrade.
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Using the Caduceus to represent medicine has been an ongoing mistake by everything concerned with medicine, at least in the United States. Hospitals here use the Caduceus so I'm sure Blizzard assumed that it is associated with medicine.
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On October 10 2011 09:56 MonkSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 09:51 slicknav wrote:On October 10 2011 09:25 Redmark wrote:On October 10 2011 08:47 slicknav wrote:
while we're at it we might was well deconstruct Blizzard's usage of the word "marine", which in the game is a guy with gun. However the word has mideval origins relating to the ocean and water. I wonder why they chose the name "marine" for a guy with a gun... You're being unreasonably dismissive. A better analogy would be if someone used an old flag for, say the UK and someone's not sure if that was intentional. He's not 'deconstructing' anything, he's asking a legitimate question. Just because you might not care about it doesn't mean it's trivial lol. The Caduceus is a commonly used symbol for things healing related. Asking why it's used as the name for an upgrade on a unit that heal's does seem kind of trivial. But the point his making is it's incorrectly used. It might be commonly used, but it's still incorrect.
its so commonly used that most teachers in schools will point out the double snakes on a rod symbolizes medicine/healing. idk how it is outside of the states, but in the states is such common knowledge that it mind as well be correct to avoid mass confusion.
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On October 10 2011 09:33 Toast_ wrote:
Listen up... the caduceus is the true symbol of medicine. The rod of asclepius may be used by fake dr's.... however the caduceus is the true symbol of real doctors, the ones who are not limited by one species. Veterinarians... the true doctors of the world.
Not sure if troll... If not,
"The caduceus was the magic staff of Hermes (Mercury), the god of commerce, eloquence, invention, travel and theft, and so was a symbol of heralds and commerce, not medicine. The words caduity & caducous imply temporality, perishableness and senility, while the medical profession espouses renewal, vitality and health."
Blayney, Keith. "The Caduceus vs the Staff of Asclepius." Web. Sept 2002. <http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html>.
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On October 10 2011 08:47 slicknav wrote:
while we're at it we might was well deconstruct Blizzard's usage of the word "marine", which in the game is a guy with gun. However the word has mideval origins relating to the ocean and water. I wonder why they chose the name "marine" for a guy with a gun...
The use of marine makes perfect sense, they are the new marines, space is their ocean.
Blizzard just probably went with the common, but incorrect symbol in this circumstance.
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On October 10 2011 06:27 caradoc wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus#Misuse_as_Symbol_of_medicineCommon practice according to wikipedia Show nested quote +It is relatively common, especially in the United States, to find the caduceus, with its two snakes and wings, used as a symbol of medicine instead of the correct rod of Asclepius, with only a single snake. This usage is erroneous, popularised largely as a result of the adoption of the caduceus as its insignia by the US Army medical corps in 1902 at the insistence of a single officer (though there are conflicting claims as to whether this was Capt. Frederick P. Reynolds or Col. John R. van Hoff).[21][22]
The rod of Asclepius is the dominant symbol for healthcare professionals and associations in the United States. One survey found that 62% of healthcare professionals used the rod of Asclepius, while 76% of commercial healthcare organizations used the caduceus
And /thread, really. On the first reply. That's worth at least a few internets.
I mean, fair enough, good catch, but when the vast majority of companies in the medical field and the United States Army use the wrong symbol, I really don't think it's surprising that a video game company did so as well.
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On October 10 2011 10:22 PopcornColonel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 09:33 Toast_ wrote:
Listen up... the caduceus is the true symbol of medicine. The rod of asclepius may be used by fake dr's.... however the caduceus is the true symbol of real doctors, the ones who are not limited by one species. Veterinarians... the true doctors of the world. Not sure if troll... If not, "The caduceus was the magic staff of Hermes (Mercury), the god of commerce, eloquence, invention, travel and theft, and so was a symbol of heralds and commerce, not medicine. The words caduity & caducous imply temporality, perishableness and senility, while the medical profession espouses renewal, vitality and health." Blayney, Keith. "The Caduceus vs the Staff of Asclepius." Web. Sept 2002. <http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html>.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Veterinary_Caduceus.jpg
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In BW lots of energy upgrades only increased the total max of energy you could gain (example: ghosts total 200 energy could be increased to 250). But no units in BW came out of production with more energy immediately. (exp: Ghosts couldn't come out with 50 energy right away if you got the energy upgrade).
Where as in SC2, energy upgrades give you a boost for when the unit comes out of production, but doesn't increase the total energy you can gain over time. In this situation, the Caduceus reactor seems to be less helpful than it was in BW, since there isn't always a time when you can immediately use medivacs when they come out of production to heal or stim right away, except in early timing drops against zerg. Minerals and gas could be better spent so early on. I feel as a long term upgrade BW style Caduceus reactor would be better.
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On October 10 2011 09:56 MonkSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 09:51 slicknav wrote:On October 10 2011 09:25 Redmark wrote:On October 10 2011 08:47 slicknav wrote:
while we're at it we might was well deconstruct Blizzard's usage of the word "marine", which in the game is a guy with gun. However the word has mideval origins relating to the ocean and water. I wonder why they chose the name "marine" for a guy with a gun... You're being unreasonably dismissive. A better analogy would be if someone used an old flag for, say the UK and someone's not sure if that was intentional. He's not 'deconstructing' anything, he's asking a legitimate question. Just because you might not care about it doesn't mean it's trivial lol. The Caduceus is a commonly used symbol for things healing related. Asking why it's used as the name for an upgrade on a unit that heal's does seem kind of trivial. But the point his making is it's incorrectly used. It might be commonly used, but it's still incorrect.
That's the point I was making before with "marine", although in a sarcastic sense. "Marine" was originally used to describe oceans/things related to water. Marine's in SC don't have anything to do with ocean...but "marine" IRL is commonly used to describe soldiers. So is "marine" incorrectly used to label a unit in SC 2 and in IRL? Of course it is if you deeply look at it. But it's the common word used which is why it is in the game. The same can be said for Caduceus.
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On October 10 2011 12:09 Toast_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:22 PopcornColonel wrote:On October 10 2011 09:33 Toast_ wrote:
Listen up... the caduceus is the true symbol of medicine. The rod of asclepius may be used by fake dr's.... however the caduceus is the true symbol of real doctors, the ones who are not limited by one species. Veterinarians... the true doctors of the world. Not sure if troll... If not, "The caduceus was the magic staff of Hermes (Mercury), the god of commerce, eloquence, invention, travel and theft, and so was a symbol of heralds and commerce, not medicine. The words caduity & caducous imply temporality, perishableness and senility, while the medical profession espouses renewal, vitality and health." Blayney, Keith. "The Caduceus vs the Staff of Asclepius." Web. Sept 2002. <http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html>. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Veterinary_Caduceus.jpg
Really?
They slapped a V on the Rod of Asclepius and called it the Veterinary Caduceus? That's terrible.
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Guys guys, you can just get more antivenom from one snake than from two. It all makes perfect sense that it´s mistaken.
Jokes aside, I just read that pretty much everywhere in the world medical services using an ancient symbol ´made a mistake´. So many in fact, that you can´t call it a mistake anymore - now it´s the norm (or the hospitals are thieves? )
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On October 10 2011 15:02 visual77 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 12:09 Toast_ wrote:On October 10 2011 10:22 PopcornColonel wrote:On October 10 2011 09:33 Toast_ wrote:
Listen up... the caduceus is the true symbol of medicine. The rod of asclepius may be used by fake dr's.... however the caduceus is the true symbol of real doctors, the ones who are not limited by one species. Veterinarians... the true doctors of the world. Not sure if troll... If not, "The caduceus was the magic staff of Hermes (Mercury), the god of commerce, eloquence, invention, travel and theft, and so was a symbol of heralds and commerce, not medicine. The words caduity & caducous imply temporality, perishableness and senility, while the medical profession espouses renewal, vitality and health." Blayney, Keith. "The Caduceus vs the Staff of Asclepius." Web. Sept 2002. <http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html>. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Veterinary_Caduceus.jpg Really? They slapped a V on the Rod of Asclepius and called it the Veterinary Caduceus? That's terrible.
Yeah, I was gonna say. It's not really even a Caduceus, haha. It's a Rod of Asclepius that they renamed to Caduceus. It's even worse than what Blizz did. :p
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On October 10 2011 08:23 IMSmooth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 06:27 caradoc wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus#Misuse_as_Symbol_of_medicineCommon practice according to wikipedia It is relatively common, especially in the United States, to find the caduceus, with its two snakes and wings, used as a symbol of medicine instead of the correct rod of Asclepius, with only a single snake. This usage is erroneous, popularised largely as a result of the adoption of the caduceus as its insignia by the US Army medical corps in 1902 at the insistence of a single officer (though there are conflicting claims as to whether this was Capt. Frederick P. Reynolds or Col. John R. van Hoff).[21][22]
The rod of Asclepius is the dominant symbol for healthcare professionals and associations in the United States. One survey found that 62% of healthcare professionals used the rod of Asclepius, while 76% of commercial healthcare organizations used the caduceus No, Americans know what it means. We just think doctors are a bunch of thieves :p Sigh.... Someday we will have a good healthcare system. Someday
This guy is smart.
It's so obvious, should be quite a revelation for the public.
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huh. i really love when people are able to notice these minute details hidden within every game. i think blizzard's response to this thread would be HILARIOUS
by the way, does anyone actually use that upgrade? i find that in TvZ i always have enough medivacs and in TvP where i actually need another kind of starport unit OTHER than medivacs, they all just get fedback, so the extra energy hurts more than helps T_T
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On October 10 2011 06:38 DoubleReed wrote:
Yea, regardless of historical mistake, it is nonetheless a recognizable symbol of medicine.
Educated people know the difference.
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On October 10 2011 14:57 slicknav wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 09:56 MonkSEA wrote:On October 10 2011 09:51 slicknav wrote:On October 10 2011 09:25 Redmark wrote:On October 10 2011 08:47 slicknav wrote:
while we're at it we might was well deconstruct Blizzard's usage of the word "marine", which in the game is a guy with gun. However the word has mideval origins relating to the ocean and water. I wonder why they chose the name "marine" for a guy with a gun... You're being unreasonably dismissive. A better analogy would be if someone used an old flag for, say the UK and someone's not sure if that was intentional. He's not 'deconstructing' anything, he's asking a legitimate question. Just because you might not care about it doesn't mean it's trivial lol. The Caduceus is a commonly used symbol for things healing related. Asking why it's used as the name for an upgrade on a unit that heal's does seem kind of trivial. But the point his making is it's incorrectly used. It might be commonly used, but it's still incorrect. That's the point I was making before with "marine", although in a sarcastic sense. "Marine" was originally used to describe oceans/things related to water. Marine's in SC don't have anything to do with ocean...but "marine" IRL is commonly used to describe soldiers. So is "marine" incorrectly used to label a unit in SC 2 and in IRL? Of course it is if you deeply look at it. But it's the common word used which is why it is in the game. The same can be said for Caduceus.
The usage of the term "Marine" reflects a more generalised peculiarity of science fiction. For some reason, space is an ocean. That's why vehicles that travel in space are frequently associated with naval vessels, whereas, at least with respect to moving in three dimensions, I'd imagine airplanes would be closer, and a new term entirely would be optimal. That's why they're typically referred to as cruisers or battlecruisers, corvettes, frigates, destroyers, dreadnoughts, carriers, and so forth. I imagine that the way of life on a space vehicle is closer to that of a sea vessel, alone in an empty expanse for vast extents of time, with a very numerous crew, and so forth. That may be the origin. Either way that also extends to connected subjects, for example ranks are generally associated with the Navy, not the Army - Commodores, Captains and Admirals rather than Majors, Colonels and Generals - and thus we get to Marines.
Marines are infantry connected to the Navy - deployed from warships for coastal raiding or to secure landings, for example. I'd assume their name derives from marine infantry, thus sea-based infantry. Given the previous association between space and ocean, it makes sense that infantry deployed from a starship would be called a Marine.
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Now, if you want a mistake, check out Blizzard's achievement for 500 Protoss team wins: that symbol, marked as being "Shelak Tribe" (White, Judicator Caste) is actually the symbol for the Sargas Tribe (Blue, Templar Caste). Check your original StarCraft manuals!
Gasp!
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well, if you figure, hermes/mercury was the god of thieves as well as the god of medicine
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On October 10 2011 15:38 polysciguy wrote:
well, if you figure, hermes/mercury was the god of thieves as well as the god of medicine
Asclepius, Apollo.
Not Hermes, to my knowledge.
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On October 10 2011 06:48 G_Wen wrote:This is a common mistake, even House doesn't use the right one:
"usually symbolizing gamblers, liars and thieves" You don't think this is a clever play on words but with symbols? (so a play on symbols then...)
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On October 10 2011 06:26 PopcornColonel wrote:Has anyone else noticed that the Caduceus reactor (medivac energy upgrade) has a funny name? The Caduceus is the staff surrounded by twin snakes, usually symbolizing gamblers, liars and thieves (it was held by mercury). It is often mistaken for the rod of Asclepius, which is a symbol for healing/medicine (a staff surrounded by 1 snake). + Show Spoiler [Caduceus] ++ Show Spoiler [Rod of Asclepius] +Rod of healing So did Blizzard purposefully mix up the names, or did they make a mistake? EDIT: I didn't play Brood War, but as someone pointed out in the thread (thanks, carbonaceous) the Medic Energy Upgrade was also called Caduceus Reactor. Could Blizzard have been in error without noticing for 12 years?
No, they didn't mix it up, the rest of the world did. The Caduceus is often mistaken for the Rod of Asclepius. Also, the Caduceus symbolizes gamblers, liars, and thieves in Roman iconography, but in Greek Mythology it symbolizes commerce and peace.
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Since people these days make the mistake of confusing the two, why wouldn't humans in the future make the same mistake? It makes sense.
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Caduceus is also an item in D2, (mis)used in the same manner.
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yes, blizzard is wrong exactly like 90% of US companies who use it in the wrong way.
i am not surprised at all that such a big mistake happened in the US lol
On October 10 2011 15:38 polysciguy wrote:
well, if you figure, hermes/mercury was the god of thieves as well as the god of medicine
lol.
wrong
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On October 10 2011 12:09 Toast_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 10:22 PopcornColonel wrote:On October 10 2011 09:33 Toast_ wrote:
Listen up... the caduceus is the true symbol of medicine. The rod of asclepius may be used by fake dr's.... however the caduceus is the true symbol of real doctors, the ones who are not limited by one species. Veterinarians... the true doctors of the world. Not sure if troll... If not, "The caduceus was the magic staff of Hermes (Mercury), the god of commerce, eloquence, invention, travel and theft, and so was a symbol of heralds and commerce, not medicine. The words caduity & caducous imply temporality, perishableness and senility, while the medical profession espouses renewal, vitality and health." Blayney, Keith. "The Caduceus vs the Staff of Asclepius." Web. Sept 2002. <http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html>. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Veterinary_Caduceus.jpg
Sorry... but LOL!
This is the rod of Asclepius with a V on it
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So the health-care staff used by the pharmaceutical industry is in reality the staff of thieves. What a sweet coincidence.
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I stumbled upon this thread by complete accident but it has been a learning experience. I can't help but smile at the irony of the Caduceus being the Staff of Thieves, and so widely used in America.
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On October 10 2011 18:59 sunman1g wrote:yes, blizzard is wrong exactly like 90% of US companies who use it in the wrong way. i am not surprised at all that such a big mistake happened in the US lol Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 15:38 polysciguy wrote:
well, if you figure, hermes/mercury was the god of thieves as well as the god of medicine lol. wrong
Well thats what i get for not looking it up and going off memory.though in my defense,1 the percy jackson series which i recentky read.threw me off and 2going ascwhatsis is a minor diety,not a major one like hermes
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as far as I know, if there is 2 snakes, 1st one is the poison and the 2nd one is the antidote. I might be wrong, that's what I was told when I was a kid and I am not saying my source is reliable, but it made sense at that time
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On October 10 2011 13:05 Armada Vega wrote:
In BW lots of energy upgrades only increased the total max of energy you could gain (example: ghosts total 200 energy could be increased to 250). But no units in BW came out of production with more energy immediately. (exp: Ghosts couldn't come out with 50 energy right away if you got the energy upgrade).
Where as in SC2, energy upgrades give you a boost for when the unit comes out of production, but doesn't increase the total energy you can gain over time. In this situation, the Caduceus reactor seems to be less helpful than it was in BW, since there isn't always a time when you can immediately use medivacs when they come out of production to heal or stim right away, except in early timing drops against zerg. Minerals and gas could be better spent so early on. I feel as a long term upgrade BW style Caduceus reactor would be better.
You are wrong. Their starting energy was based of a % of their maximum energy in BW. If you researched the energy upgrade they'd start off with both more base energy and more maximum energy. a HT with the energy upgrade would start off with like 62(?) energy instead of 50, and 250 maximum instead of 200.
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"...at the insistence of a single officer (though there are conflicting claims as to whether this was Capt. Frederick P. Reynolds or Col. John R. van Hoff)"
Successful troll? I would love to hear stories like these in actuality where some people just decide to change something small and it sticks more a loooong time.
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"The Caduceus is the staff surrounded by twin snakes, usually symbolizing gamblers, liars and thieves"
Doesn't seem like the medical community is wrong in using it.
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do you really get 100% back from the upgrade value upon cancelling??
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On October 11 2011 02:18 meRz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2011 13:05 Armada Vega wrote:
In BW lots of energy upgrades only increased the total max of energy you could gain (example: ghosts total 200 energy could be increased to 250). But no units in BW came out of production with more energy immediately. (exp: Ghosts couldn't come out with 50 energy right away if you got the energy upgrade).
Where as in SC2, energy upgrades give you a boost for when the unit comes out of production, but doesn't increase the total energy you can gain over time. In this situation, the Caduceus reactor seems to be less helpful than it was in BW, since there isn't always a time when you can immediately use medivacs when they come out of production to heal or stim right away, except in early timing drops against zerg. Minerals and gas could be better spent so early on. I feel as a long term upgrade BW style Caduceus reactor would be better. You are wrong. Their starting energy was based of a % of their maximum energy in BW. If you researched the energy upgrade they'd start off with both more base energy and more maximum energy. a HT with the energy upgrade would start off with like 62(?) energy instead of 50, and 250 maximum instead of 200.
Correct. Units spawn with 1/4 of their maximum energy, that's normally 50/200, but with the upgrade it's 62.5/250.
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The confusion between the two symbols can be explained and it's not really a mistake.
The Caduceus has first been used as a symbol for trade and communication.
The Staff means trade, power, authority, communication, nice talking and wisdom. It protects those who wear it.
Hermes was the greek god of merchants, trade, pathes and anything that needed trickery or dexterity. He was also in charge of leading dead men to Hades and bringing messages from gods to people.
The Caduceus was first used by print workers as they were bringing messages too.
In the end of the 19th century, a book editor specialised in medecine books started to use the caduceus symbol on his covers. This is when the symbol began to be associated with medecine.
In 1886, the U.S. Marine Hospital Service used the caduceus as his symbol. Then in 1871, Public Health Service did the same. When the US army medical corps officialy used the Caduceus in 1902, it became the official symbol of medecine and not Wisdom or communication anymore.
A lot of american doctors refused to use this symbol because of its death and trickery relation. So they decided to use the Asclepius wand instead. Several associations did the same (eq: American Medical Association).
So the confusion began and now the two symbols are commonly called "caduceus" and vice versa.
Source (french) : http://www.ordomedic.be/fr/l-ordre/serment-(belgique)/medecins-et-symboles/
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EPT![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Caduceus.svg)
