EPTOn October 15 2011 00:21 Zealot Lord wrote:
Thanks!
hmm, pretty much turned out the way I expected unfortunately
Thanks!
hmm, pretty much turned out the way I expected unfortunately
Don't thank me but the guy who does all of this
[September] TLPD Race Winrate Graphs - Page 20
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pPingu
Switzerland2892 Posts
Don't thank me but the guy who does all of this | ||
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Cillas
Germany78 Posts
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On October 15 2011 01:01 Cillas wrote: i normally wouldnt, but thats pathetic, even the its only "few games" argument gets lined out if u count the last 3 months together. i mean WTF. It's been since May, so that's 5 months. ANd October isn't going to be any better. | ||
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pPingu
Switzerland2892 Posts
On October 15 2011 01:01 Cillas wrote: i normally wouldnt, but thats pathetic, even the its only "few games" argument gets lined out if u count the last 3 months together. i mean WTF. The "few games" argument would only work if the winrates were irregular, but here it's constant | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
I know there's a small sample size, but still, what the hell. The only reason Protoss was doing well outside of Korea was because the top Zergs weren't on par with the Koreans and hadn't figured out the deathball style yet. So IdrA, Artosis et al complained about it, all their Bronze followers jumped on the bandwagon and got the changes to make PvZ "balanced". | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On October 15 2011 01:21 SeaSwift wrote: I like how in Korea PvZ never had a 50+% winrate on average for P, but Blizzard still nerfed Protoss to hell and buffed Zerg just as much... I know there's a small sample size, but still, what the hell. The only reason Protoss was doing well outside of Korea was because the top Zergs weren't on par with the Koreans and hadn't figured out the deathball style yet. So IdrA, Artosis et al complained about it, all their Bronze followers jumped on the bandwagon and got the changes to make PvZ "balanced". Well at the peak of Zerg "qq" Blizzard didn't actually nerf Protoss, they just buffed Zerg (Infester)--though I think most Zergs these days have realized how powerful the unit actually is and might have preferred the old Infestor as they use it more for the Stun and ITs than the Fungal DPS | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
edit : and op has updated it already :p | ||
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XupinatoR
Spain125 Posts
On October 15 2011 01:45 MrCon wrote: SC2Statistics just posted the Korean graph edit : and op has updated it already :p And it's quite drepessing since the winrate for PvZ was never good for protoss and still protoss was nerfed 1312312 times to help Z. Ty idra and artosis. | ||
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Velvet_Llama
United States25 Posts
ABORTION IS MURDER. There, that should get things going in the right direction. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On October 15 2011 02:10 Velvet_Llama wrote: I don't think people are mad enough. ABORTION IS MURDER. There, that should get things going in the right direction. That made me LOL in real life. Thanks for that, llama. | ||
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Trowa127
United Kingdom1230 Posts
Bottom line is that no matter what numbers we show you, it's not going to make any situations 'better'. From time to time we show StarCraft II players literal win/loss %, as accurate as they can possibly be pulled from the source itself, and they're either ignored (because players simply don't want to believe their experiences are "wrong") or laughed at as being some underhanded plot to feed them misinformation. Amazing. Just, amazing. Source - http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/202894/135-of-all-wow-players-completed-normal-fl | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On October 15 2011 02:33 Trowa127 wrote: I didn't want to create a new thread for this quote, but thought it was pretty important to show. This is a blue post (developer post) on the WoW forums regarding some questionable clear percentages for their latest raid dungoen. This is what the dev - Bashiok - said about revealing numbers to the Starcraft 2 population. Bottom line is that no matter what numbers we show you, it's not going to make any situations 'better'. From time to time we show StarCraft II players literal win/loss %, as accurate as they can possibly be pulled from the source itself, and they're either ignored (because players simply don't want to believe their experiences are "wrong") or laughed at as being some underhanded plot to feed them misinformation. Amazing. Just, amazing. Source - http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/202894/135-of-all-wow-players-completed-normal-fl Amazing that Bashiok(not a dev, a community manager BTW) is saying the truth? Look at korean PvZ when P was OP. And still players like Destiny and idra QQd and QQd until P was nerfed. And yeah what Bashio is saying is true, no matter how much statistics are shown, once the SC2 players get into the mindset of something is OP they won't change their mind. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On October 15 2011 02:33 Trowa127 wrote: I didn't want to create a new thread for this quote, but thought it was pretty important to show. This is a blue post (developer post) on the WoW forums regarding some questionable clear percentages for their latest raid dungoen. This is what the dev - Bashiok - said about revealing numbers to the Starcraft 2 population. Bottom line is that no matter what numbers we show you, it's not going to make any situations 'better'. From time to time we show StarCraft II players literal win/loss %, as accurate as they can possibly be pulled from the source itself, and they're either ignored (because players simply don't want to believe their experiences are "wrong") or laughed at as being some underhanded plot to feed them misinformation. Amazing. Just, amazing. Source - http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/202894/135-of-all-wow-players-completed-normal-fl Oh God. If that's really how Blizzard feel about SC2 balance, we're in for some tough times ahead. Sad Zealot may become a manic depressive... | ||
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Trowa127
United Kingdom1230 Posts
On October 15 2011 02:40 windsupernova wrote: Amazing that Bashiok(not a dev, a community manager BTW) is saying the truth? Look at korean PvZ when P was OP. And still players like Destiny and idra QQd and QQd until P was nerfed. And yeah what Bashio is saying is true, no matter how much statistics are shown, once the SC2 players get into the mindset of something is OP they won't change their mind. Most of us are not like Destiny or Idra, those two are habitual QQ'rs who would whine about anything. Most of us see proven racial imbalance at the highest level and think 'what can be done about this?' Its just amazing because Blizzard seem happy to ignore statistic but then accuse people who discuss proven facts of 'ignoring' information. Its also amazing that he would use the SC2 player base as an example in a completely different game, it shows how highly they regard us. And my mistake on Bashiok. | ||
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Roxy
Canada753 Posts
Take the following for example: Patch 2.0 comes in Protoss is removed from the game Zerg is only allowed to build zerglings Terran stays as is Zergs all plummet on the ladder Eventually everything will balance out and there will be a 50% win rate for everyone (you are just going to have masters zerg players playing vs bronze terran players Just because it is a 50/50 spread on wins and losses doesnt mean anything because their system is designed to make it so people win 50% of the time. In the above example, obviously any zerg player that gets to gold level would be incredibly more skilled than the terran counterpart obvious imbalance, but someone lookign at only that statistic would conclude that the game is balanced? | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
On October 15 2011 02:33 Trowa127 wrote: I didn't want to create a new thread for this quote, but thought it was pretty important to show. This is a blue post (developer post) on the WoW forums regarding some questionable clear percentages for their latest raid dungoen. This is what the dev - Bashiok - said about revealing numbers to the Starcraft 2 population. Bottom line is that no matter what numbers we show you, it's not going to make any situations 'better'. From time to time we show StarCraft II players literal win/loss %, as accurate as they can possibly be pulled from the source itself, and they're either ignored (because players simply don't want to believe their experiences are "wrong") or laughed at as being some underhanded plot to feed them misinformation. Amazing. Just, amazing. Source - http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/202894/135-of-all-wow-players-completed-normal-fl It's not that I question their statistics, just the way they are presented. Lumping Diamond/Masters/GM into one number makes that number pretty irrelevant. I'd like to see the win rates for just diamond, just masters, and just grandmasters. Also, win rates for games under 12 minutes and games over 12 minutes. It's not that people don't trust the numbers, they are just presented so poorly. | ||
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Trowa127
United Kingdom1230 Posts
On October 15 2011 02:50 Reborn8u wrote: It's not that I question their statistics, just the way they are presented. Lumping Diamond/Masters/GM into one number makes that number pretty irrelevant. I'd like to see the win rates for just diamond, just masters, and just grandmasters. Also, win rates for games under 12 minutes and games over 12 minutes. It's not that people don't trust the numbers, they are just presented so poorly. As has been mentioned before, their system is designed to give people a 50% win rate, so most match ups having close to 50% is not suprising. Thats why I think its much better to look at pro games. | ||
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Roxy
Canada753 Posts
On October 15 2011 02:50 Reborn8u wrote: It's not that I question their statistics, just the way they are presented. Lumping Diamond/Masters/GM into one number makes that number pretty irrelevant. I'd like to see the win rates for just diamond, just masters, and just grandmasters. Also, win rates for games under 12 minutes and games over 12 minutes. It's not that people don't trust the numbers, they are just presented so poorly. Ya, no-one is saying the numbers are wrong we are saying the numbers don't prove anything and they are esentially useless blizzard has the abiltiy to present us with good nubmers, but either chose not to are dont know how (I do question their competence sometimes). | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On October 15 2011 02:49 Roxy wrote: I have never understood how the blizzard statistics work Take the following for example: Patch 2.0 comes in Protoss is removed from the game Zerg is only allowed to build zerglings Terran stays as is Zergs all plummet on the ladder Eventually everything will balance out and there will be a 50% win rate for everyone (you are just going to have masters zerg players playing vs bronze terran players Just because it is a 50/50 spread on wins and losses doesnt mean anything because their system is designed to make it so people win 50% of the time. In the above example, obviously any zerg player that gets to gold level would be incredibly more skilled than the terran counterpart Matchmaking system pairs you with people regardless of MU. In your hypothetical world lets take Greg the Zerg, he is very talented but he is held back by his race, he starts laddering in Bronze league and it goes this way: W v Z W v Z W v Z L v Z but he cheesed anyways L v T L v T W v Z L v T L v T His MU winrates? ZvZ 80% ZvT 0% His overall winrate that day 50% | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On October 15 2011 02:50 Reborn8u wrote: It's not that I question their statistics, just the way they are presented. Lumping Diamond/Masters/GM into one number makes that number pretty irrelevant. I'd like to see the win rates for just diamond, just masters, and just grandmasters. Also, win rates for games under 12 minutes and games over 12 minutes. It's not that people don't trust the numbers, they are just presented so poorly. They Lump GMs and masters only no? And if it was GM only we would get to the same impasse that this statistics threads awlays get: "not enuff sample size" "ladder does not matter" And its not like GM don't get Matched up against High Master players. And why not take into account short games? Cheese and all ins form a part of the state of the game. And yeah "its not like people don't trust their numbers" look at the thread when they were released, a lot of people were saying that the numbers were fixed, that some conspiracy was going on blah blah blah. People will never be happy with the numbers unless they all reach exact 50%(impossible) or that they prove their own viewpoints. I mean not everybody is that way but look back at when P were OP(both T and Z complaining.. a LOT) the numbers for the P MUs were around 50% and yet people denied those numbers because they didn't comply with their own views. | ||
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