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Poll: Hardest race to play at each level of SC2? - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Supamang
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2298 Posts
October 02 2011 11:46 GMT
#101
On October 02 2011 20:35 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 20:32 Redox wrote:
I honestly believe Terran has the highest skill ceiling, at least in the current meta.

Which is why Terrans are dominating in Korea but not in Europe / NA.


Terran is clearly the hardest race to play at pro level and this poll proves how clueless most ppl are.

are you a pro? because you cant comprehend how hard something is at the pro level unless you yourself have played at the pro level
Blizzard_torments_me
Profile Joined February 2010
Romania199 Posts
October 02 2011 11:55 GMT
#102
I'm high master level, but that doesn't matter at all because if you'd be objective you could see that Terran benefits most from multitasking and is the most micro intensive race. Considering you have to constantly micro your units compared to zerg who just just A moves practically, with the occasional flank, and Protoss, witch has some micro units but still doesn't compare to Terran in the raw time and concentration it takes to micro your units witch always detriments from your macro.
Coopa826
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany161 Posts
October 02 2011 11:55 GMT
#103

Good Thread but having diamond and masters in 1 poll isnt correct imo,the difference between those 2 leagues is huge


I think its as big as for example Bronze Silver.
Youre not giving any arguments or statistics.
I think diamond and masters arent that diffrent.
In diamond people already know all the builds, what to do against this and that and theire mechanics are pretty good too. so whats so diffrent about masters?
people just play a little bit faster and little bit better.

Bronze player sometimes are people who played that game like 10 times and lost everyone of that or just 6pooling everygame with 0 micro cause they saw it once in husky's channel. Silver league dudes on the other hand know more builds, they show at least a bit micro (stutter step).

So imo the diffrence between Bronze/Silver is bigger than DIamond/Master
ShatterZer0
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1843 Posts
October 02 2011 11:57 GMT
#104
Z-Z-T-P

MACRO
Everything until Diamond is just Macro. Zerg has the most counter-intuitive macro mechanic. Period.

MICRO
At Diamond macro tends to even out, and then Terrans who play Bio (90% of Terrans) suddenly get SMASHED by Zerg mass units and overwhelmed by armor upgraded zombiezealots.

DECISION MAKING
At anything higher... Protoss. Simply because Protoss is the "simplest race" as in there are really very few drastic changes you could make to the Protoss race without instantly becoming SERIOUSLY vulnerable. You're on a knife's edge... and you have to balance on it nigh on perfectly. Sometimes even that isn't enough.
A time to live.
Ermac
Profile Joined June 2011
336 Posts
October 02 2011 11:58 GMT
#105
Bronze/Silver - Zerg
Gold/Platinum - Zerg(slight tendency towards protoss maybe?)
Diamond/Master - Definitely Terran
Grandmaster/Pro - Hard to say really... It's difficult to differentiate between power, potential, and the actual skill it takes to play certain race successfully.

Explanations:

Bronze/Silver + Gold/Platinum: In these leagues it feels to me that mastering the basic (macro) mechanics of your respective race is your biggest challenge. Zerg definitely has the most 'stuff to do regularly', and without it they are weak.


Diamond/Master:

- Protoss has the best death ball relative to the amount of control it takes to use it efficiently. In other words, Protoss is extremly powerful by just a-moving a huge one-control-group army and dropping a few spells here and there.

- Zerg needs the least amount of actual build orders, openings or 'strategies' and are very strong just by virtue of their now acquired macro mechanics. Very simple army compositions are very powerful and usually don't require a lot of control.(Ling/Infestor, Infestor/Broodlord, etc.)

- Terran on the other hand certainly has its advantages too, but literally every single unit needs to be microed correctly to be efficient. A-Move scenarios are very rare and usually only happen when you've won the game anyway. Furthermore in most supply limit fights against the other two races you have to apply much more control in comparison to have a chance of winning the fight. Moreover I feel like Terran needs the most refined builds/openings to compete in Diamond/Master League. Of course every race has its problems and none of them is easy to play, but Terran is the hardest to play on Diamond/Master imho.


Grandmaster/Pro: As I said, it's tough to differentiate between power, potential and skill requirements. Once your control has improved to a certain extent, Terran has a huge potential and becomes very powerful. With perfect army composition and EMPs you can suddenly crush 200/200 protoss armies that would have rolled over you otherwise. Does that make Terran the easiest race to play on pro level? I don't know. However it certainly seems like it's the strongest at the moment, at least in Korea. In terms of 'toughest to be successful with" I think it's pretty obvious that protoss is the hardest race to play at Pro-Level.



Note:
Of course these explanations are simplified. Matters are always more complicated than a few sentences. Furthermore there's always the current metagame to consider, and we all know how that can change everything all of a sudden.
"Blind aggressiveness would destroy the attack itself, not the defense." - Carl von Clausewitz
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 12:11:34
October 02 2011 12:10 GMT
#106
I think the only players who can really comment are the top random players. If you play one civ only then you've no right to judge how hard it is to play the others. Take it from me, I play Z only and when I off race with T or P I just can't keep my macro straight. Hatcheries are easier to manage for me than Gateways or Barracks simply because I'm so much more used to the mechanic. Z macro is nothing special, even at lower levels.

A hardcore random player might be able to talk about how difficult each match up is and then might eventually be able to say which civ is overall the hardest to play. But since most of us only play one (maybe 2) I don't think we can comment.

I honestly don't think any civ is harder to play than the next. But that's just my opinion.
maru lover forever
Kaitokid
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Germany1327 Posts
October 02 2011 12:14 GMT
#107
On October 02 2011 20:55 Coopa826 wrote:
Show nested quote +

Good Thread but having diamond and masters in 1 poll isnt correct imo,the difference between those 2 leagues is huge


I think its as big as for example Bronze Silver.
Youre not giving any arguments or statistics.
I think diamond and masters arent that diffrent.
In diamond people already know all the builds, what to do against this and that and theire mechanics are pretty good too. so whats so diffrent about masters?
people just play a little bit faster and little bit better.

Bronze player sometimes are people who played that game like 10 times and lost everyone of that or just 6pooling everygame with 0 micro cause they saw it once in husky's channel. Silver league dudes on the other hand know more builds, they show at least a bit micro (stutter step).

So imo the diffrence between Bronze/Silver is bigger than DIamond/Master


No the difference between masters/diamond is actually huge. Masters it top 2% while diamond is top 20%. If someone is one of the stronger masters players he can compete with GM players and even pros.
Darneck
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden1394 Posts
October 02 2011 12:20 GMT
#108
On October 02 2011 20:55 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
I'm high master level, but that doesn't matter at all because if you'd be objective you could see that Terran benefits most from multitasking and is the most micro intensive race. Considering you have to constantly micro your units compared to zerg who just just A moves practically, with the occasional flank, and Protoss, witch has some micro units but still doesn't compare to Terran in the raw time and concentration it takes to micro your units witch always detriments from your macro.

What does them benefiting from most multitasking and is (according to you) the most micro intensive race have anything to do with them being the hardest race to play?

And it's usually easier for terran to macro while microing when it comes to making units and such, compared to protoss having to actually stop watching the battle to do it.

But once again, just because they benefit more from multitasking doesn't make the race harder, just more complete.
Makrel
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark150 Posts
October 02 2011 12:22 GMT
#109
On October 02 2011 20:21 blackbrrd wrote:
I have got a friend in Diamond who is playing Protoss. He has some experience as Z and T, but 80% av his games has been played as a Protoss. He recently tried playing Zerg and Terran and had no problems holding his diamond ranking, he mostly lost in mirror matches.

I'm a diamond protoss aswell, with very little experience as Z and T. Tried playing a few games as zerg and terran for fun recently, and I actually had an easier time winning with those races except in mirror matches. But I guess it's the other way around for someone else. I think the different races just suits different people.
TheHova
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United Kingdom2612 Posts
October 02 2011 12:27 GMT
#110
Well i can play all 3 at a masters level, with Zerg being my best and i'd say

Bronze/Silver : Zerg
Gold/Platinum : Zerg
Diamond/Low Masters : They're all about the same
High Masters/GM/Pro : Protoss

I don't really agree with Terran being the most micro intensive race either. Stutter step micro is probably one of the easiest thing in the game to perform. EMP is an instant damage spell etc...

The Protoss probably have the most micro at the higher levels. Getting off good storms, making sure your forcefields are good, organising your army, making sure it's not clumped against EMP/fungal. Controlling your important units carefully etc...
Logros
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands9913 Posts
October 02 2011 12:32 GMT
#111
The results of the poll looks pretty good. As someone who played both Protoss and Terran at masters I feel that Terran is a little bit harder, mainly easier to make a small mistake and lose your entire army to things like storm, banelings etc. But at the top Pro level (Korean) Protoss is the hardest to succeed with.
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
October 02 2011 12:34 GMT
#112
On October 02 2011 21:27 TheHova wrote:
Well i can play all 3 at a masters level, with Zerg being my best and i'd say

Bronze/Silver : Zerg
Gold/Platinum : Zerg
Diamond/Low Masters : They're all about the same
High Masters/GM/Pro : Protoss

I don't really agree with Terran being the most micro intensive race either. Stutter step micro is probably one of the easiest thing in the game to perform. EMP is an instant damage spell etc...

The Protoss probably have the most micro at the higher levels. Getting off good storms, making sure your forcefields are good, organising your army, making sure it's not clumped against EMP/fungal. Controlling your important units carefully etc...


I agree with this.

I would even say zerg to some extent at High Masters/GM/Pro. But I think at the absolute top it's hardest for protoss players.
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
humbre
Profile Joined August 2011
353 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 12:39:16
October 02 2011 12:35 GMT
#113
nice so low level players vote what race is hardest on pro level lol....
pointless poll made just to boost your own ego
IRONF1ST
Profile Joined October 2010
United States11 Posts
October 02 2011 12:37 GMT
#114
By far Zerg is hardest up to Platinum because of the mechanics required just to be mediocre with Zerg macro and make good decisions based on limited/no scouting. I would say for Diamond and up Protoss is the hardest because it is harder to macro Warp Gates + micro, their timing attacks are mostly known, and it is relatively hard to do anything innovative with the race. Plus their macro mechanic is the weakest after the 15 minute mark.

I think both Zerg and Protoss are the hardest race at their respective skill levels simply because of poor race design.
Latham
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
9563 Posts
October 02 2011 12:40 GMT
#115
Bronze/Silver - Didn't answer since I was never that low or even seen games at that level.
Gold/Plat - zerg I think. Wierd ass timings from T/P hurt and most gold/plat zergs can't macro to save their lives.
Dia - low dia = zerg. top dia = terran
Masters - low = terran, top = toss
GM = toss since they're so 1 dimensional and easy to predict,
For the curse of life is the curse of want. PC = https://be.pcpartpicker.com/list/4JknvV
sandg
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia123 Posts
October 02 2011 13:00 GMT
#116
the way I see it from my limited experience:
zerg: hard to learn, hard to master
terran: easy to learn, hardest to master
protoss: easy to learn, easy to master
The mind is capable of anything, because everything is in it.
Applesqt
Profile Joined May 2011
United States206 Posts
October 02 2011 13:01 GMT
#117
Less people play Terran then any other race, so I'm not surprised by these results..
Pulimuli
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Sweden2766 Posts
October 02 2011 13:07 GMT
#118
Everyone usually believes that their race is the hardest to play.

I'd say is the easiest, dont know which one of and that is the hardest though
ChemBroTron
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany194 Posts
October 02 2011 13:37 GMT
#119
Why are there more GM voters than bronze voters? 933 GM voters... Is this even possible?
HystericaLaughter
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia720 Posts
October 02 2011 13:58 GMT
#120
Glad there is so much interest in the thread :D. On a couple of things people have picked out as issues

On October 02 2011 20:30 A-BomB wrote:
Good Thread but having diamond and masters in 1 poll isnt correct imo,the difference between those 2 leagues is huge


In a perfect world I didn't really want to have any leagues placed together but I didn't want 8 polls because I thought it would be too repetitive. In the end I went for tiers of skill rather than actually league rankings, and remember masters is only the top 2 percent of diamond, on a linear skill scale they are quite close.

Hi. I have a question regarding this thread especially since many including mods like iamke55 seem to already agree to the poll results. How are the results valid in any way, especially since anyone and everyone can vote on each level? And what are the objective measures that makes a certain race the hardest to play at a certain level?

Unless there is some sort of filter to ensure that grandmasters and others indeed vote and chime in on their appropriate level, this thread will only end up as "my race is harder/better than your race".


They are in no way valid and should never be used in any kind of data gathering about race tendencies or balance lol. Its purely opinion

nice so low level players vote what race is hardest on pro level lol....
pointless poll made just to boost your own ego


Bit harsh IMO, I included in the OP that I didn't state my race is the hardest, I was just interested in what the community had to say. To each his own I suppose
My wife for hire! - Zealot
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