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On December 08 2011 18:17 ReaperX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 11:39 Jemesatui wrote:
The only foreigners to make GM Korean ladder so far as I know it are sase, huk and stephano.
Obviously ladder success does not mean tourny success, but I've watched a fuckton of streams over the past year and NOTHING has matched the calibre of Stephanos play on ladder.
I don't even play Zerg, but his game verse maka prime last night (no.1 kr ladder) was fucking all time, and if mules wernt so OP he would have easily won.
Think of all the foreigners 'train in korea' but don't even get close to making GM. Jinro been in KR or years and still can't make gm.
I'm not saying he's the best player/Zerg in the world, but the guy is a fuckin freak straight up You're so ignorant lol... Jinro made it to RO4 GSL twice, thats better than being GM as for foreigners that made it into gm... there are more than 10 foreigners who have made it to GM, mOOngLaDe, Sen, IdrA, NaNiwa and more have made it to gm. Mules aren't op either, lol.
It's not better if it's past results. Jinro may have been one of the best back then, but as it stands, now, clearly it's not the case. I'm not saying it's bad, nor am I saying he couldn't kick my ass, but it's really dumb imo when people bring into the equation results that aren't highly relevant nowadays. Just like Boxer won won a ton of tournies in BW. I mean, MC is a two time champion, and then slumped a lot, are you going to tell me because he won 2 GSLs that it meant he was better than other Protosses who had yet to win a GSL but were playing more consistent and winning more often, at a more recent point?
Of course, MC might have been better than those Protosses in terms of skill and could have just massively underperformed for an extended period of time, who knows. But from what we could actually see, the more logical conclusion would be that MC wasn't as good relative to the competition as he used to be. Same can be said for Jinro, which is why it's brought up. Jinro seemed to be MUCH better relative to his competition then than he is now.
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I'm pretty sure everyone binds the eggs to their main army, nothing special there. But if you say Stephano implemented it and showed it to us all, I shall believe you. He's obviously God just because he has a very characteristic zerg playstyle.
I personally don't like his style at all. He seems to randomly amass units and doesn't have the finesse of Idra into his play. Many times instead of droning up /expanding he makes a bunch of units. Yes, that catches players off guard, but I still can't get the games he played against Boxer out of my mind where although Boxer didn't show much Stephano managed to lose.
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On December 08 2011 18:52 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 18:17 ReaperX wrote:On December 08 2011 11:39 Jemesatui wrote:
The only foreigners to make GM Korean ladder so far as I know it are sase, huk and stephano.
Obviously ladder success does not mean tourny success, but I've watched a fuckton of streams over the past year and NOTHING has matched the calibre of Stephanos play on ladder.
I don't even play Zerg, but his game verse maka prime last night (no.1 kr ladder) was fucking all time, and if mules wernt so OP he would have easily won.
Think of all the foreigners 'train in korea' but don't even get close to making GM. Jinro been in KR or years and still can't make gm.
I'm not saying he's the best player/Zerg in the world, but the guy is a fuckin freak straight up You're so ignorant lol... Jinro made it to RO4 GSL twice, thats better than being GM as for foreigners that made it into gm... there are more than 10 foreigners who have made it to GM, mOOngLaDe, Sen, IdrA, NaNiwa and more have made it to gm. Mules aren't op either, lol. It's not better if it's past results. Jinro may have been one of the best back then, but as it stands, now, clearly it's not the case. I'm not saying it's bad, nor am I saying he couldn't kick my ass, but it's really dumb imo when people bring into the equation results that aren't highly relevant nowadays. Just like Boxer won won a ton of tournies in BW. I mean, MC is a two time champion, and then slumped a lot, are you going to tell me because he won 2 GSLs that it meant he was better than other Protosses who had yet to win a GSL but were playing more consistent and winning more often, at a more recent point? Of course, MC might have been better than those Protosses in terms of skill and could have just massively underperformed for an extended period of time, who knows. But from what we could actually see, the more logical conclusion would be that MC wasn't as good relative to the competition as he used to be. Same can be said for Jinro, which is why it's brought up. Jinro seemed to be MUCH better relative to his competition then than he is now.
Back in the day, MC was definitely better than the other Protoss. Nowadays he's still a Code S player (one of 5 Protoss for now), which is not so easy to do when you look at Code A's quality.
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On December 08 2011 11:39 Jemesatui wrote:
The only foreigners to make GM Korean ladder so far as I know it are sase, huk and stephano.
Obviously ladder success does not mean tourny success, but I've watched a fuckton of streams over the past year and NOTHING has matched the calibre of Stephanos play on ladder.
I don't even play Zerg, but his game verse maka prime last night (no.1 kr ladder) was fucking all time, and if mules wernt so OP he would have easily won.
Think of all the foreigners 'train in korea' but don't even get close to making GM. Jinro been in KR or years and still can't make gm.
I'm not saying he's the best player/Zerg in the world, but the guy is a fuckin freak straight up
Tod did it, and pretty fast. Hitting korean ladder in how much time means nothing, all the great players outside of korea are kr GM materials. It is all about ratio in my opinion, ratio/points/number of games played. from waht i saw in his last day he destroys Protoss ezpz but has huge difficulties against terrans TT
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On December 08 2011 19:29 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 18:52 FabledIntegral wrote:On December 08 2011 18:17 ReaperX wrote:On December 08 2011 11:39 Jemesatui wrote:
The only foreigners to make GM Korean ladder so far as I know it are sase, huk and stephano.
Obviously ladder success does not mean tourny success, but I've watched a fuckton of streams over the past year and NOTHING has matched the calibre of Stephanos play on ladder.
I don't even play Zerg, but his game verse maka prime last night (no.1 kr ladder) was fucking all time, and if mules wernt so OP he would have easily won.
Think of all the foreigners 'train in korea' but don't even get close to making GM. Jinro been in KR or years and still can't make gm.
I'm not saying he's the best player/Zerg in the world, but the guy is a fuckin freak straight up You're so ignorant lol... Jinro made it to RO4 GSL twice, thats better than being GM as for foreigners that made it into gm... there are more than 10 foreigners who have made it to GM, mOOngLaDe, Sen, IdrA, NaNiwa and more have made it to gm. Mules aren't op either, lol. It's not better if it's past results. Jinro may have been one of the best back then, but as it stands, now, clearly it's not the case. I'm not saying it's bad, nor am I saying he couldn't kick my ass, but it's really dumb imo when people bring into the equation results that aren't highly relevant nowadays. Just like Boxer won won a ton of tournies in BW. I mean, MC is a two time champion, and then slumped a lot, are you going to tell me because he won 2 GSLs that it meant he was better than other Protosses who had yet to win a GSL but were playing more consistent and winning more often, at a more recent point? Of course, MC might have been better than those Protosses in terms of skill and could have just massively underperformed for an extended period of time, who knows. But from what we could actually see, the more logical conclusion would be that MC wasn't as good relative to the competition as he used to be. Same can be said for Jinro, which is why it's brought up. Jinro seemed to be MUCH better relative to his competition then than he is now. Back in the day, MC was definitely better than the other Protoss. Nowadays he's still a Code S player (one of 5 Protoss for now), which is not so easy to do when you look at Code A's quality.
Though to be fair he did get knocked out of code s and code A but regained his spot through the MLG-GSL partenership. If MLG or code A + qualifiers are harder can be discused. but you can not really look at the code A quality to compare MCs current skill with.
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On December 08 2011 18:26 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 18:23 WArped wrote:
As far as I know, nobody uses Stephanos technique. Adding the hatchery eggs that he uses to reinforce his army to his hotkeys, frees up apm to multitask and spread creep, macro etc. It's an amazing technique to be honest and not many pro Zergs have quite caught on to it. Of course every player is different and are comfortable using different ways of playing but I think Steph's technique has helped him somewhat. It also helps that his decision making is impeccable too. If this is what I think it is, it sounds pretty smart considering you can have those new units instantly come reinforce instead of checking on them later or possibly having a bad rally. Are you saying he will, if he's making mutas for example, hotkey the eggs making the mutas? Or is it more general, where he just hotkeys all his eggs with 1 of his army hotkeys, or a separate one?
Actually he hotkey when he makes in different groups, depending on the mix etc... for ALL units exept mutas  And this technique is bad for mutas because they fly around the map alone with fail rally-points... This is a reason why he doesn't muta/ling/bling s terran, because he has huge diffuculties not to groups his mutas while in eggs since it became a reflex.
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On December 08 2011 19:39 AIOL! wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 18:26 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 08 2011 18:23 WArped wrote:
As far as I know, nobody uses Stephanos technique. Adding the hatchery eggs that he uses to reinforce his army to his hotkeys, frees up apm to multitask and spread creep, macro etc. It's an amazing technique to be honest and not many pro Zergs have quite caught on to it. Of course every player is different and are comfortable using different ways of playing but I think Steph's technique has helped him somewhat. It also helps that his decision making is impeccable too. If this is what I think it is, it sounds pretty smart considering you can have those new units instantly come reinforce instead of checking on them later or possibly having a bad rally. Are you saying he will, if he's making mutas for example, hotkey the eggs making the mutas? Or is it more general, where he just hotkeys all his eggs with 1 of his army hotkeys, or a separate one? Actually he hotkey when he makes in different groups, depending on the mix etc... for ALL units exept mutas And this technique is bad for mutas because they fly around the map alone with fail rally-points... This is a reason why he doesn't muta/ling/bling s terran, because he has huge diffuculties not to groups his mutas while in eggs since it became a reflex.
wait, you can hotkey eggs?! wtf i didnt know that lol
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On December 08 2011 18:50 MonkSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 18:35 WArped wrote:On December 08 2011 18:26 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 08 2011 18:23 WArped wrote:
As far as I know, nobody uses Stephanos technique. Adding the hatchery eggs that he uses to reinforce his army to his hotkeys, frees up apm to multitask and spread creep, macro etc. It's an amazing technique to be honest and not many pro Zergs have quite caught on to it. Of course every player is different and are comfortable using different ways of playing but I think Steph's technique has helped him somewhat. It also helps that his decision making is impeccable too. If this is what I think it is, it sounds pretty smart considering you can have those new units instantly come reinforce instead of checking on them later or possibly having a bad rally. Are you saying he will, if he's making mutas for example, hotkey the eggs making the mutas? Or is it more general, where he just hotkeys all his eggs with 1 of his army hotkeys, or a separate one? It's as you think it is, he hotkeys the eggs making the mutas. Say he has 6 mutas out and he is making 6 mutas, he Ctrl+ Selects the eggs making the mutas and Shift + adds those eggs to his hotkey. So he has 6 mutas out + 6 eggs assigned to his hotkey. When the mutas hatch he will INSTANTLY reinforce his muta army. You will notice that Steph is constantly doing this to his army, even if he makes like 3 lings, he will always select the eggs and add them to his hotkeys. Adding mutas like this to the control group only leads to disaster. I do the egg hotkey technique, and I do it on everything BUT mutas and other air units. I've lost so many mutas just because I added them to my control group and having them fly over some marines or into a turret when my muta ball is on the other side of the terrans base/army. It works well with grounds units though. I'm 100% sure that there are MANY other pros out there who do this, it's not a unique technique, and many zergs know about it. It's just some see it as a hassle and some just can't break their habit or have different unit making styles. Like for instance, I've seen Destiny hit drones overlords and roaches at the same time with his larvae selected. Destiny would need to break his way of macroing, and learn to make drones, then overlords, then roaches. It's not amazing and most zergs do it, or they just rally their hatcheries forward with their army. I don't think this is anything new, nor will it change the way zergs play or their opponents play.
One thing that is hindering top players from doing it is that more macro hatches are needed. It's really troublesome to do it if you are producing small amount of units. If you produce in waves, most likely you won't be able to make use of the hatchery natural larva production. In ZvP, the benefits of reinforcing instantly definitely outweigh the cons for roach-based army. Not so much in other match-ups unless you are going for an out-all attack.
Stephano has his unique way of understanding and playing the game. He has some sort of mobile drop defence. Even when he splits his army to defend drops, they always remain on his main army hotkey so he can instantly pull them back into attack after dealing with them. He does all these stuff that i used to do (not so much now) while i was still learning the game and come up with to deal with my apm deficit. It's pretty awesome for me when i see a pro player using similar mechanics to play the game.
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is stephano gonna stream today? like the last 3days.............
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On December 08 2011 19:29 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 18:52 FabledIntegral wrote:On December 08 2011 18:17 ReaperX wrote:On December 08 2011 11:39 Jemesatui wrote:
The only foreigners to make GM Korean ladder so far as I know it are sase, huk and stephano.
Obviously ladder success does not mean tourny success, but I've watched a fuckton of streams over the past year and NOTHING has matched the calibre of Stephanos play on ladder.
I don't even play Zerg, but his game verse maka prime last night (no.1 kr ladder) was fucking all time, and if mules wernt so OP he would have easily won.
Think of all the foreigners 'train in korea' but don't even get close to making GM. Jinro been in KR or years and still can't make gm.
I'm not saying he's the best player/Zerg in the world, but the guy is a fuckin freak straight up You're so ignorant lol... Jinro made it to RO4 GSL twice, thats better than being GM as for foreigners that made it into gm... there are more than 10 foreigners who have made it to GM, mOOngLaDe, Sen, IdrA, NaNiwa and more have made it to gm. Mules aren't op either, lol. It's not better if it's past results. Jinro may have been one of the best back then, but as it stands, now, clearly it's not the case. I'm not saying it's bad, nor am I saying he couldn't kick my ass, but it's really dumb imo when people bring into the equation results that aren't highly relevant nowadays. Just like Boxer won won a ton of tournies in BW. I mean, MC is a two time champion, and then slumped a lot, are you going to tell me because he won 2 GSLs that it meant he was better than other Protosses who had yet to win a GSL but were playing more consistent and winning more often, at a more recent point? Of course, MC might have been better than those Protosses in terms of skill and could have just massively underperformed for an extended period of time, who knows. But from what we could actually see, the more logical conclusion would be that MC wasn't as good relative to the competition as he used to be. Same can be said for Jinro, which is why it's brought up. Jinro seemed to be MUCH better relative to his competition then than he is now. Back in the day, MC was definitely better than the other Protoss. Nowadays he's still a Code S player (one of 5 Protoss for now), which is not so easy to do when you look at Code A's quality.
I never said he wasn't... back in teh day. We're talking about now, where he regained his Code S status through getting second place at MLG.
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On December 08 2011 20:16 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 19:29 ZenithM wrote:On December 08 2011 18:52 FabledIntegral wrote:On December 08 2011 18:17 ReaperX wrote:On December 08 2011 11:39 Jemesatui wrote:
The only foreigners to make GM Korean ladder so far as I know it are sase, huk and stephano.
Obviously ladder success does not mean tourny success, but I've watched a fuckton of streams over the past year and NOTHING has matched the calibre of Stephanos play on ladder.
I don't even play Zerg, but his game verse maka prime last night (no.1 kr ladder) was fucking all time, and if mules wernt so OP he would have easily won.
Think of all the foreigners 'train in korea' but don't even get close to making GM. Jinro been in KR or years and still can't make gm.
I'm not saying he's the best player/Zerg in the world, but the guy is a fuckin freak straight up You're so ignorant lol... Jinro made it to RO4 GSL twice, thats better than being GM as for foreigners that made it into gm... there are more than 10 foreigners who have made it to GM, mOOngLaDe, Sen, IdrA, NaNiwa and more have made it to gm. Mules aren't op either, lol. It's not better if it's past results. Jinro may have been one of the best back then, but as it stands, now, clearly it's not the case. I'm not saying it's bad, nor am I saying he couldn't kick my ass, but it's really dumb imo when people bring into the equation results that aren't highly relevant nowadays. Just like Boxer won won a ton of tournies in BW. I mean, MC is a two time champion, and then slumped a lot, are you going to tell me because he won 2 GSLs that it meant he was better than other Protosses who had yet to win a GSL but were playing more consistent and winning more often, at a more recent point? Of course, MC might have been better than those Protosses in terms of skill and could have just massively underperformed for an extended period of time, who knows. But from what we could actually see, the more logical conclusion would be that MC wasn't as good relative to the competition as he used to be. Same can be said for Jinro, which is why it's brought up. Jinro seemed to be MUCH better relative to his competition then than he is now. Back in the day, MC was definitely better than the other Protoss. Nowadays he's still a Code S player (one of 5 Protoss for now), which is not so easy to do when you look at Code A's quality. I never said he wasn't... back in teh day. We're talking about now, where he regained his Code S status through getting second place at MLG.
Well now he just beat bomber and won his spot in code S from code A.
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I mean, MC is a two time champion, and then slumped a lot, are you going to tell me because he won 2 GSLs that it meant he was better than other Protosses who had yet to win a GSL but were playing more consistent and winning more often, at a more recent point?
just read your sentence angain... it's just confusing as hell because you are jumping back and forth.
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This kid is a freakin beast man, he has so much potential. He uses the infestor ling ultra style against terran, which is so weak to drops, but his splitting of his units is just amazing and watching his stream inspires me. He is a true hero and will be remembered as a legend of the game: inspiring young kids and showing them that you can compete with grown ups, along side leenock, SC and jjakji
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On December 08 2011 20:32 firehand101 wrote:
This kid is a freakin beast man, he has so much potential. He uses the infestor ling ultra style against terran, which is so weak to drops, but his splitting of his units is just amazing and watching his stream inspires me. He is a true hero and will be remembered as a legend of the game: inspiring young kids and showing them that you can compete with grown ups, along side leenock, SC and jjakji
Amen
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On December 08 2011 20:32 firehand101 wrote:
This kid is a freakin beast man, he has so much potential. He uses the infestor ling ultra style against terran, which is so weak to drops, but his splitting of his units is just amazing and watching his stream inspires me. He is a true hero and will be remembered as a legend of the game: inspiring young kids and showing them that you can compete with grown ups, along side leenock, SC and jjakji
Yeah the way he deals with drops is just amazing, this is one of his strength, his mini map vision is just PERFECT, really, he does not miss something. And he always takes care about his overlords placement so he is nearly unvulnerable to the drops Oo. Just look at the game he won vs sculp on taldarim, this was one of the most impressive i've ever seen. There was like permanantly 3 drops at the same time all the 40min game and only one triple drop succeeded, one time, to kill his greater spire.
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he's the best foreign Zerg 4 sure, i really hope he plays in the GSL at some time !
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Him and HerO have such amazing mini map vision.
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EPT
