EPTBlizzard Blog: Balance Snapshot - Page 6
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ahronee
38 Posts
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:33 RinconH wrote: The only thing that matters are the results in the GSL. Sadly, this is the 1st season I didn't buy a pass because TvT all-day is boring. lol I think TvT is the most exciting of all the mirror matchups, and so does my roommate who plays protoss | ||
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Brotocol
243 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:30 Dommk wrote: Or maybe they genuinely feel like they want to give the community some insight given the heightened amount of balance whine lately. They have done this before, it seems to me they just keep tabs on the community because whenever they post these numbers is when ever there is a lot of crying about balance within the community (more than usual) Why the misleading numbers though? For the entire last year, actual statisticians have taken a whack at Blizzard's win rate stats, on the forums. No blue poster ever replied. And this latest batch of stats still does not address the criticisms of their approach. They're simply "putting it out there" calculatedly. They know these are not close to being valid, but will refrain from even talking about that. It's disingenuous to publish such numbers. The majority who see them will assume that the game is perfect. | ||
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Pred8oar
Germany281 Posts
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Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:30 Dommk wrote: Or maybe they genuinely feel like they want to give the community some insight given the heightened amount of balance whine lately. They have done this before, it seems to me they just keep tabs on the community because whenever they post these numbers is when ever there is a lot of crying about balance within the community (more than usual) Well honestly I don't feel that much insight was given. Many people have mentioned that win rates will tend to 50% given the MMR system (otherwise wtf is the point of the MMR system). They include Masters players when they should've just given GM numbers (no offense to Masters players, I'm Masters myself but I don't think I'm close to pros or my games should be any basis for balance). | ||
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:22 Liquid`Tyler wrote: I'm kind of interested why Blizzard wants us to know this. As far as I know, there's no pressure on them to release these numbers. No one is waiting on them. And no one in the community is going to use them for anything. Blizzard simply wants us to know them... why? I can't agree more with this type of question. What is even worst is that Blizzard isn't even consistent with the way they display their data nor the timing of their data. Last I remember they gave us separate leagues and the timing of it just seems weird and random. | ||
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TERRANLOL
United States626 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:27 crms wrote: I think it's because balance issues are about the most significant outcry of the community in RTS gaming. While these numbers are basically nonsensical they make balance (to a casual viewer) seem pretty damn good. These numbers alleviate some of the mass hysteria regarding balance for people who take everything blizzard say as gospel (a lot of fucking people). Blizzard throws out nice looking balanced numbers and 99% think, wow the game is pretty balanced, 1% (TL nerds, redditors etc.,) are left scratching their head with the same balance concerns they've always had. Interestingly enough though, I don't think there are any numbers blizzard or anyone could release that would ever satisfy those individuals who are concerned about balance anyway. In all reality you really can't prove that the game is balanced. | ||
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Hikari
1914 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:30 tehemperorer wrote: What defines "better players?" Ones with a better win ratio? Those players are all high level players, but it's clear that Terran have tools to deal with pretty much any situation, and for these tools there is a lower barrier to acquisition for them compared to Protoss and Zerg because of the flexibility of Terran's early units: you can basically do anything you like and be safe behind pure marine (early pressure, saves gas) or mm (stronger early pressure, takes a bit of gas) I would like to add that at a time when siege tanks are more powerful, a time when stim takes a lot shorter time to research, non-Terran like fruitdealer still manage to take the GSL. Skill can overcome all "imbalances". It is very difficult to judge how skillful a player is. It may be too much coincidence that a high majority of "good players" pick the same race. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
Oh, and the obvious point that the top players don't play ladder much, they play each other in customs, they haven't addressed that. | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
pvt in top50 gm is death . im from the bottom of my hearth sure . | ||
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maddogawl
United States63 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:10 Zombie_Velociraptor wrote: Why exactly does Blizzard think that ladder winrate percentages are an indication of balance, when they have themselves designed the ladder to match players so that their winrates are roughly 50%? I mean, if for example Terran was to be made so underpowered that someone with Master's level 'skill' can barely hold their own vs mid-level Diamond Zerg & Protoss players, ladder stats would appear largely normal anyway? Am I missing something here? You do realize Blizzard does realize this. Theres a video that they did at Blizzcon where they discuss how they analyze balance, and they say themselves that they can't look at straight w/l ratios. They have behind the scenes skill values for each player that they analyze as well. Check out the video if you can. Blizzard designers are a lot smarter than people on the forums give them credit for. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:36 Pred8oar wrote: And because of this np was nerfed? gj blizzard you fail. Yeah just ignore the underlined section where they say that these % are not all they consider. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:03 hotwings wrote: The changes in the patch make no sense when you look at those statistics. Blizzard y u no make sense >:o This is a great post. Obviously if Blizzard was balancing the game based in part on these stats, they would not have balanced it all in the way that they did. | ||
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Rob28
Canada705 Posts
On September 23 2011 01:51 R3N wrote: PvZ 57% on both NA and EU. I thought 'toss is UP? Yeah, in the bronze league maybe. look at master/GM stats, they are better indicators since top level guys don't lose as much due to micro/macro or just inexperience... And the top stats paint a very visible Protoss UP problem. | ||
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galivet
288 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:22 Liquid`Tyler wrote: I'm kind of interested why Blizzard wants us to know this. As far as I know, there's no pressure on them to release these numbers. No one is waiting on them. And no one in the community is going to use them for anything. Blizzard simply wants us to know them... why? Releasing these stats is a PR move where Blizzard tries to reassure and impress us by demonstrating that they devote some effort to thinking about game balance using complicated math. If players lose faith in the balance of the game then it becomes less entertaining both for players and for tournament viewers, and that bodes poorly for Blizzard. In a game as complicated as SC2, no one can concretely prove balance or imbalance; all anyone can do is battle to influence people's perceptions of game balance (which is all that matters in terms of how players and viewers spend their money anyway). So it's actually more interesting to think about the numbers that Blizzard didn't release, but easily could have. For example: the stats for Korean GM only. The stats for top-20 GM across all regions. Charts of how the win rations have changed over time. The more information Blizzard leaves out of the picture they show us, the more confident we can be that Blizzard is just advertising to us, not informing us. | ||
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TERRANLOL
United States626 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:36 sekritzzz wrote: I can't agree more with this type of question. What is even worst is that Blizzard isn't even consistent with the way they display their data nor the timing of their data. Last I remember they gave us separate leagues and the timing of it just seems weird and random. You talk about is as if there is some big conspiracy regarding something terrible. It's not really like there are that many reasons we can point to that blizzard would want to say to us that the game is balanced. It's obviously a response to Protoss' recent poor performance in the GSL. But don't talk about it as if Blizzard is committing some travesty that just sounds silly. | ||
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Serashin
235 Posts
I guess everyone knows how the ladder system works. I seriusly think Blizzard dont want a balanced game for whatever reason. Can some mind that currently in top form enlighten me what Blizzard gains from posting nosense and basicly does nothing else then propaganda of wrong balance measurement. I still remember there was balance talk and HoTs testing i guess it was for the Zerg player Sen. who has some cute forcefield video in youtube and someone else. I remember aswell that this what got showed was nosense aswell for the most part the last thing i can think of that the whole Blizzard management and teams etc alltogether are infected by a virus that drains there IQ and they get controled from some Terran overmind that murdered already Blizzard people and they are forced to act as they do now. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
1 day? 1 week? Since S3 start? Since last patch? | ||
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Brotocol
243 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:39 TERRANLOL wrote: You talk about is as if there is some big conspiracy regarding something terrible. It's not really like there are that many reasons we can point to that blizzard would want to say to us that the game is balanced. It's obviously a response to Protoss' recent poor performance in the GSL. But don't talk about it as if Blizzard is committing some travesty that just sounds silly. It's not a big conspiracy, that would be silly. But it's a company that is covering its ass in the face of growing outcries over some poor decisions that they made. | ||
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headbus
Canada173 Posts
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