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On September 20 2011 05:49 FaRess wrote:
Live report : Llewellys said that coL statement about stephano "contract" being one of the biggest in term of money, is completely wrong, it's not even remotely close to what a guy like HuK has signed
People always say huk made big money which I'm sure he did but no one ever says a specific amount, how can we even compare about vague terms thrown around?
Does anyone even have specific numbers?
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To make things clear for everyone: even if Stephano had signed a real contract binding under french law, he would still be able to break it fairly easily considering:
- it's customary to have a "trial period" in contracts
- the contract signed by stephano would probably have been a "short term contract" or duration limited contract
- Stephano had not even started to work for Col yet.
Even outside the trial period, the employee can break a "short term contract" or duration limited contract, if he can argue that he has a long term duration contract available (CDI). In that case he can be forced to work a minimum duration for the previous employer (for a maximum of 2 weeks and the actual time would be lower because he didn't work for Col at all).
So Stephano was free to change it under french law in my opinion.
Disclaimer: it's not a lawyer opinion so take it with a grain of salt, but I know how it works. Under french law, Col won't have any chance I would bet.
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Contracts in eSports will never be taken seriously until people start suing. Just look at how little contracts are valued in Counter-Strike.
This is just terrible.
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On September 20 2011 05:43 Sirael wrote:this whole stepping back after x days from an employment contract in france thing is simply wrong source (in german, from a law office): http://www.franzoesisches-arbeitsrecht.de/
Thank you, finally a source of some sort. The clause about an employee/employer breaking a contract is only viable if it's included in the contract in the first place. There is no inherent clause that allows for someone to just get out of an otherwise normal contract before the time is up or both parties mutually dissolve the contract.
I had a feeling all of the 'In France, you can break a contract whenever you want for whatever reason you want as long as it's under 30 days' talk was bullshit but I remained open minded in case it was in fact true.
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Complexity should have gone out of their way to make sure the contract is air tight and complied with French Law. They've had the contract for 18 days as they've said (although I'm sure there's been numerous revisions over that time), they've had plenty of time to check and make sure everything is legal, the fact that they didn't do this and the whole situation was able to come about seems to lie with them.
That being said Stephano and Mil went about this the whole wrong way, the fact they're ignoring emails to respond to complexity is outrageous and that by the sounds of it have persuaded Stephano to sign a contract with them when he wanted to go elsewhere without giving Complexity the chance to "fix" the contract.
I was delighted when I saw the announcement this morning as Stephano is a great player and getting to see him at things like MLG would have been great, it's just a shame that despite the contract being great for Stephano the whole deal has been messed up due to a few legal loop holes. Complexity really should have made sure of everything prior to this to prevent this from happened, but this whole thing has just been horrific from Stephano and Mil and they should take the blame for the drama, not complexity.
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On September 20 2011 05:51 P0ckets wrote:
Even though it may be null in France it isn't in the US, and Complexity can sue then in a US court. Then it gets all crazy because of where it holds validity and if Complexity shows and if Millenium appears or not. Can get super nasty and make life hard for Millennium personal and players in the US, where some major tournaments taker place.
This is truth. Please read this. This is what will happen. Stephano and all of Millenium will NOT be able to go to IPL/NASL/etc...
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mod edit - image removed
+ Show Spoiler +Just joking, please don't take this too seriously.
Jokes aside, this is very confusing. I think I'll take Chill's advice and wait and see before I post my thoughts.
Edit: I hope they can figure this out without it turning into a giant shitstorm. Good luck to both parties.
User was warned for this post
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On September 20 2011 05:51 ArnaudF wrote:
Come on coL you tried to screw Millenium and got screwed back and any law pursuit in France will fail. Get over it and stop saying that this isn't over or that the whole esport scene will be behind you and it'll be felt world-wide.
Deal with it.
Read the thread.
Then give up.
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On September 20 2011 05:52 Bellygareth wrote:
To make things clear for everyone: even if Stephano had signed a real contract binding under french law, he would still be able to break it fairly easily considering:
- it's customary to have a "trial period" in contracts
- the contract signed by stephano would probably have been a "short term contract" or duration limited contract
- Stephano had not even started to work for Col yet.
Even outside the trial period, the employee can break a "short term contract" or duration limited contract, if he can argue that he has a long term duration contract available (CDI). In that case he can be forced to work a minimum duration for the previous employer (for a maximum of 2 weeks and the actual time would be lower because he didn't work for Col at all).
So Stephano was free to change it under french law in my opinion.
Disclaimer: it's not a lawyer opinion so take it with a grain of salt, but I know how it works. Under french law, Col won't have any chance I would bet.
So we shouldn't ever bother signing French players onto teams and just let France stew in its own undeveloped scene? Sounds good to me.
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On September 20 2011 05:50 marttorn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 05:48 Lomak wrote:On September 20 2011 05:46 AzurewinD wrote:On September 20 2011 05:43 Lomak wrote:
I bet you thought that contract was real...
Oh my god, I know image macros are frowned upon, but that is just too perfect. Youtube Chuck Testa for anyone who doesn't get it. Wait, whats that mean? Forgive me but I'm not too tech savvy, I posted the pic the only way I knew how. Meme's in general, and image memes (i.e what you'd find on memebase etc) are not really acceptable on TL, but anyway
My bad, I edited it out. Didn't mean any harm just though it was funny , light hearted.
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On September 20 2011 05:49 FaRess wrote:
Live report : Llewellys said that coL statement about stephano "contract" being one of the biggest in term of money, is completely wrong, it's not even remotely close to what a guy like HuK has signed
Funny... It's like those "You think that player's good? MVP is miles better!" arguments.
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On September 20 2011 05:49 FaRess wrote:
Live report : Llewellys said that coL statement about stephano "contract" being one of the biggest in term of money, is completely wrong, it's not even remotely close to what a guy like HuK has signed That doesn't seem very convincing, huk supposedly makes close to six figures, so obviously everyone else makes much, much less. It's still possible to be one of the 'best paid' though.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 20 2011 05:47 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 05:46 ride wrote:
The Mill manager said that he couldn't answer to Col right now because he is streaming a showmatch between Lucifron and Hasuobs and cancelling the showmatch wouldn't be fair for these both platers who are not involved in this story.
For the "false contract" it means that in France a contract is very regulated. But Col's contract wasn't ok with some laws. So stephano couldn't "work" with this contract since it is not a legal one.
[quote]doesn't mean it's a "false contract".
unless this manager doesn't know what "false" actually means.
by false contract i mean "not valid" ^^ translation problems!
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On September 20 2011 05:51 ArnaudF wrote:
Come on coL you tried to screw Millenium and got screwed back and any law pursuit in France will fail. Get over it and stop saying that this isn't over or that the whole esport scene will be behind you and it'll be felt world-wide.
Deal with it.
Even if turns out that MIll is legally 'free' from any action by coL, Mill has made themselves look like idiots and Stephano is getting shafted regardless of the outcome (through his own fault to a good degree)
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On September 20 2011 05:51 forgottendreams wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 05:49 FaRess wrote:
Live report : Llewellys said that coL statement about stephano "contract" being one of the biggest in term of money, is completely wrong, it's not even remotely close to what a guy like HuK has signed People always say huk made big money which I'm sure he did but no one ever says a specific amount, how can we even compare about vague terms thrown around? Does anyone even have specific numbers?
People do, but they sure arnt going to share them with us.
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On September 20 2011 05:51 ArnaudF wrote:
Come on coL you tried to screw Millenium and got screwed back and any law pursuit in France will fail. Get over it and stop saying that this isn't over or that the whole esport scene will be behind you and it'll be felt world-wide.
Deal with it.
Going for a player isnt screwing anyone bud. And regardless of what the French courts say US courts can reach their own conclusion and Mill will have to answer to that if they come to the US
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On September 20 2011 05:51 forgottendreams wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 05:49 FaRess wrote:
Live report : Llewellys said that coL statement about stephano "contract" being one of the biggest in term of money, is completely wrong, it's not even remotely close to what a guy like HuK has signed People always say huk made big money which I'm sure he did but no one ever says a specific amount, how can we even compare about vague terms thrown around? Does anyone even have specific numbers?
HuK was millenium and from what I understand Llewellys talks with him from time to time, I'm trying to explain why what he is saying could be true, I'm not saying it's relevant
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France266 Posts
On September 20 2011 05:52 Bellygareth wrote:
To make things clear for everyone: even if Stephano had signed a real contract binding under french law, he would still be able to break it fairly easily considering:
- it's customary to have a "trial period" in contracts
That is true for an employment contract, but coL stated that it wasn't an employment contract, so the trial period may not apply.
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On September 20 2011 05:50 thragar wrote:
What also bugs me is that Millenium isn't looking out for Stephano's best interests. Here is a kid with a chance to travel the world, including the Mecca of StarCraft, hone his skills, and get paid a lot of money to do it, and they talked him out of it? What on earth. That's just terrible to do as a human being.
eh, thats arguable. Mill is claiming theyre well banked and are capable of doing what coL is doing. We'll just have to wait and see how they handle stephanos career from here on out.
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On September 20 2011 05:52 Bellygareth wrote:
To make things clear for everyone: even if Stephano had signed a real contract binding under french law, he would still be able to break it fairly easily considering:
- it's customary to have a "trial period" in contracts
- the contract signed by stephano would probably have been a "short term contract" or duration limited contract
- Stephano had not even started to work for Col yet.
Even outside the trial period, the employee can break a "short term contract" or duration limited contract, if he can argue that he has a long term duration contract available (CDI). In that case he can be forced to work a minimum duration for the previous employer (for a maximum of 2 weeks and the actual time would be lower because he didn't work for Col at all).
So Stephano was free to change it under french law in my opinion.
Disclaimer: it's not a lawyer opinion so take it with a grain of salt, but I know how it works. Under french law, Col won't have any chance I would bet.
Thats the bits I've collected about the laws there aswell. It still a douche move by Stephano. And it makes the whole sc2 pro scene look like a big laugh.
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EPT
