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On September 20 2011 04:55 Emporio wrote:
This is one thing that confuses me. Every French person is talking about how all contracts allow a month to back out and such. I assume that the contract that Complexity drafted doesn't have this clause in it. So does that mean the contract itself was illegitimate for a French person to even sign, or does French law somehow automatically add in the probation period, regardless of what the contract says?
Looks like the probation clause was not the only missing thing, over essantial thing for the french law.
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On September 20 2011 04:57 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:55 XRaDiiX wrote:On September 20 2011 04:52 SnoLys wrote:On September 20 2011 04:34 gullberg wrote:On September 20 2011 04:33 Lunas wrote:
On stephano´s Stream they sayd no contract had been signed and Millinium made 1 last offer in the last minut and comlexity was to fast to anounce it Yeah and Stephano/his fans aren't biased at all. Who isn't? CoL will be biased to CoL, Mil will be biased to Mil, Stephano will be biased to Stephano. So far CoL has a history of contract "misfortunes", with Destiny, vvvTitan and now Stephano. So who to believe? Exactly my thoughts and people thought i was crazy for Calling CoL a sneaky snake when this is the 3rd time this 'Situation' has Happened with Complexity. Stephano was probably pressured into signing .. This is obviously apparent when Stephano so quickly changed his mind and/or didn't feel the contract was what he agreed to and/or was deceived by Complexity.  3rd times the charm What misfortunes with Destiny? He didn't want to be on the team, they were cool with it, and they went their separate ways. Did they force Destiny to give them money to get out of his contract?
Stephano Doesn't want to be on the Team and it appears with the laws in France... Stephano can legally breach/break his contract within 1 month of the legally binding day.
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On September 20 2011 04:57 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:55 XRaDiiX wrote:On September 20 2011 04:52 SnoLys wrote:On September 20 2011 04:34 gullberg wrote:On September 20 2011 04:33 Lunas wrote:
On stephano´s Stream they sayd no contract had been signed and Millinium made 1 last offer in the last minut and comlexity was to fast to anounce it Yeah and Stephano/his fans aren't biased at all. Who isn't? CoL will be biased to CoL, Mil will be biased to Mil, Stephano will be biased to Stephano. So far CoL has a history of contract "misfortunes", with Destiny, vvvTitan and now Stephano. So who to believe? Exactly my thoughts and people thought i was crazy for Calling CoL a sneaky snake when this is the 3rd time this 'Situation' has Happened with Complexity. Stephano was probably pressured into signing .. This is obviously apparent when Stephano so quickly changed his mind and/or didn't feel the contract was what he agreed to and/or was deceived by Complexity. 3rd times the charm What misfortunes with Destiny? He didn't want to be on the team, they were cool with it, and they went their separate ways. Did they force Destiny to give them money to get out of his contract?
Nothing, he's just trolling.
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On September 20 2011 04:54 FaRess wrote:
Millenium manager just said on stream that the contract that Complexity did is missing a lot of things, and says that legally their contracts have no value (in France), he also talk about how complexity posted the news at 5 am (CEST), so they should have expected what is happening right now when you do those kind of things
I highly doubt Complexity contracts are just flat out void in France BUT even if that's the case it's still incredibly shitty by Mill to act like this. Wasn't a huge fan of theirs to begin with and this is driving me toward actively cheering for them to do poorly.
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On September 20 2011 04:57 WoLFoU wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:52 ellirc wrote:On September 20 2011 04:51 WoLFoU wrote:On September 20 2011 04:45 Vul wrote:On September 20 2011 04:44 WoLFoU wrote:4) Yesterday Stephano contacted coL.CatZ and our COO Jason Bass to inform them he had made his final decision and told CatZ "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization. He seemed genuinely excited to be a part of our organization and joined our private Skype channel to chat with the team before going to bed. This is not a signature but a verbal agreement. I do not think Col has received the signed contract from what I understand. So for me, Col made the announcement too early without having received the signed contract. Also in French law, there is a time to retract. Gogo Stephano! Come on dude, read the next line. edit: Stephano contacted coL.CatZ and our COO Jason Bass to inform them he had made his final decision and told CatZ "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization. Signature Internet? An employment contract must be signed in France on paper ... So for me there is no time to sign it and send it to the other side of the world if it were yesterday ... You don't have printers/scanners in France? Or I'm pretty sure Stephano has a mic with which you can record statements. The signature must be real and not scanned for validation (to prevent false signatures). So for me it is a verbal agreement and not a real contract "validated".
Fortunately, no country bases its contract laws based on your opinion of validity. France honors verbal agreements as well fyi.
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On September 20 2011 04:56 Tehs Tehklz wrote:
StarCraft 2 definitely needs an international governing body so that players can't just pull this kind of nonsense and hide behind whatever BS international legal ambiguity they can find. If MLG, GSL and all the major tournaments joined the same governing organization, players would have to actually have some integrity and class for fear of punishment.
Well never ever happen. A situation like this (local laws) even occurs at the most expensive markets around the world (pharma, software, patents). The only thing that could be somewhat leading is a gentlemen's agreement but even that is not legally binding in any form.
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On September 20 2011 04:59 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
"would have been the highest paid SC2 player in the world"
Everybody is the freaking highest paid player apparently o.o
If that's the French law then there's nothing CoL can do about it, even though the law doesn't really make sense to me.
One of the highest. That can mean ANYTHING really. It pretty much has no direct meaning.
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On September 20 2011 04:57 WoLFoU wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:52 ellirc wrote:On September 20 2011 04:51 WoLFoU wrote:On September 20 2011 04:45 Vul wrote:On September 20 2011 04:44 WoLFoU wrote:4) Yesterday Stephano contacted coL.CatZ and our COO Jason Bass to inform them he had made his final decision and told CatZ "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization. He seemed genuinely excited to be a part of our organization and joined our private Skype channel to chat with the team before going to bed. This is not a signature but a verbal agreement. I do not think Col has received the signed contract from what I understand. So for me, Col made the announcement too early without having received the signed contract. Also in French law, there is a time to retract. Gogo Stephano! Come on dude, read the next line. edit: Stephano contacted coL.CatZ and our COO Jason Bass to inform them he had made his final decision and told CatZ "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization. Signature Internet? An employment contract must be signed in France on paper ... So for me there is no time to sign it and send it to the other side of the world if it were yesterday ... You don't have printers/scanners in France? Or I'm pretty sure Stephano has a mic with which you can record statements. The signature must be real and not scanned for validation (to prevent false signatures). So for me it is a verbal agreement and not a real contract "validated".
First of all, verbal agreements are valid in most countries. Second, it's perfectly fine to sign a contract and fax/email it.
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lmao are you serious. what exactly was mill's defense? why is no one questioning this? Mill claims that col did something dirty to get stephano and that mill is a great french team. they do not go into details at all and completely avoid the subject of stephano signing a contract. people, reread mill's statement again and tell me exactly how it helps their case. they screwed up bad and are a disgrace.
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Hmm, for Stephano it is propably the better decision to stay with Millenium. It is of course very unfortunate that there seem to be some legal problems.
I hope everything works out in the end.
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I don't think oral agreements over the internet are considered binding contracst in France. In any case, this situation shouldn't be solved by law.
Stephano messed up, and he'll have to continue his career with quite a bad reputation, and not a "bad manner is fun" kind of reputation, but a reputation of being unreliable managment wise, which is pretty bad i think.
Now since col didn't spend money yet, he should just do a public apology and the teams should move on I think. Millenium has not much to do about it and shouldn't be prosecuted.
Col could try to sue Stephano, but I really don't see how it could be benefitial for them : the damages are quite hard to evaluate, and Stephano can't be forced to play with them.
As for the reasons behind this, I'd say the success and money messed with his head, hopefully he won't make the mistake twice.
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Only me who just saw Stephano beat MMA 2:1?
Damn shame if he mismanaged this, loses credibility and respect =/
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Apparently, French law allows any worker to retract from a contract within 30 days.
To give my 2 pence opinion, why couldn't someone change his mind? Every one does. and here it does not have any serious consequences. There isn't much at stake, no big deal, no money loss... just promises and business honour (i.e. nothing). Of course, Col are disappointed, but no one is dead.
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On September 20 2011 03:28 Xeris wrote:
I guess he should join Fnatic . #_#
If coL/Mill can't agree, Fnatic is only option <3
shiiieet, if i were a esports org with half a spine i wouldnt touch stephano with a pole.
at least not until he made it clear to the community and his former teams that he is taking this seriously and wont cause shitstorms like this. dude needs to man up and apologize to his fans for all of this.
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On September 20 2011 05:00 ellirc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:57 WoLFoU wrote:On September 20 2011 04:52 ellirc wrote:On September 20 2011 04:51 WoLFoU wrote:On September 20 2011 04:45 Vul wrote:On September 20 2011 04:44 WoLFoU wrote:4) Yesterday Stephano contacted coL.CatZ and our COO Jason Bass to inform them he had made his final decision and told CatZ "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization. He seemed genuinely excited to be a part of our organization and joined our private Skype channel to chat with the team before going to bed. This is not a signature but a verbal agreement. I do not think Col has received the signed contract from what I understand. So for me, Col made the announcement too early without having received the signed contract. Also in French law, there is a time to retract. Gogo Stephano! Come on dude, read the next line. edit: Stephano contacted coL.CatZ and our COO Jason Bass to inform them he had made his final decision and told CatZ "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization. Signature Internet? An employment contract must be signed in France on paper ... So for me there is no time to sign it and send it to the other side of the world if it were yesterday ... You don't have printers/scanners in France? Or I'm pretty sure Stephano has a mic with which you can record statements. The signature must be real and not scanned for validation (to prevent false signatures). So for me it is a verbal agreement and not a real contract "validated". First of all, verbal agreements are valid in most countries. Second, it's perfectly fine to sign a contract and fax/email it.
What? Verbal agreements mean nothing. Everything needs to be on paper.
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On September 20 2011 04:56 Elean wrote:
In the end, what should matter is the player interest.
Legally, I highly doubt that col. can do anything, and I don't even understand why they would want to.
Teams are competing among themselves, and the one with the best offer wins. The looser should just accept their defeat, if they can't make a better offer.
They didn't get a chance to make a better offer, they had the best offer, Stephano signed and THEN he decided he wanted to stay with Mill, I doubt coL was given the chance to counter-offer again after that.
Players really can't be untoucheble, it will only create an unproffesional environment.
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On September 20 2011 04:57 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 04:47 gulati wrote:
Ok. I just read the official announcement from Jason Lake. I have been following him and compLexity ever since CS1.6, when Warden, fRod, tRip, Storm, etc., all were dominating under them - his passion is truly amazing.
Now, on to the more important matters.
@Jason Lake: you have my full support - that was the most honest and open release ever, and I seriously hope you guys will push this to limits that Millennium has no idea exist. A most shameful and disrespectul act has been committed today, whether by confusion or on purpose by Millennium. Whatever the reasoning may be from Millennium, you should rest assured that the "popular" choice of Stephano sticking with his heart is the retarded choice, and should not sway your actions whatsoever - those people don't understand what is good for eSports. We, and I mean me and the rest of the community that values professionalism and the true growth of eSports, give you our FULL support, and ask that if you ever need anything from us, don't hesitate to ask.
<3 compLexity FIGHTING!!! Oh wow, you've been obviously Complexity biased all through this thread and now you post a long love letter to them based on two PR statements from different teams. And to top it off you use the "we the TRUE lovers of esports support you" with nothing to back it up. I support esports and i got brains enough to keep objective when there's no one that really knows what went down atm.
We actually know exactly what went on? Did you even read the official PR by compLexity?
"We will fully review our options and will seriously consider legal action in this matter." - That is what will be occurring. Millennium and Stephano are not responding, and their PR has their side of the story. So... what am I missing, kind sir, that other people know of?
We know what's going on. We aren't in the dark. They have the support of people who want eSports to flourish. Your attacks against me are idiotic. It could be fNatic, Liquid, Dignitas, etc., I don't give a FUCK who; the point is that they are right (compLexity), and they want to set a precedent for the gaming community.
P.S. My statement about my admiration for Jason Lake was because he is the perfect leader to set this example. That is all. Sorry if you are offended by my respect for a leader in eSports.
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Personally i can't help but not trust Complexity gaming in any regards. I can't be the only one who feels that Complexity is kinda like Real Madrid from early 2000's (My EU peeps will get my reference) who buy players through monetary clout instead of grooming their own players through a great farming system (Barcelona and Millenium in this same context).
Although signing a contract and then a day later saying "Oh no i actually don´t want to honor that contract anymore" is pretty lame on Stephano´s part. Makes him and eSports look bad. But realizing you made a mistake and wanting to stay with something solid and reliable instead of going with something that might be less supportive and risky...is understanable.
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Sigh, this is why you shouldnt negotiate contracts with children. I mean stephano is 18 years old but this just shows his immaturity and inexperience. After he beat mma in the IPL finals i think millenium just changed their mind about letting him go.
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On September 20 2011 05:01 KimJongChill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 05:00 ellirc wrote:On September 20 2011 04:57 WoLFoU wrote:On September 20 2011 04:52 ellirc wrote:On September 20 2011 04:51 WoLFoU wrote:On September 20 2011 04:45 Vul wrote:On September 20 2011 04:44 WoLFoU wrote:4) Yesterday Stephano contacted coL.CatZ and our COO Jason Bass to inform them he had made his final decision and told CatZ "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization. He seemed genuinely excited to be a part of our organization and joined our private Skype channel to chat with the team before going to bed. This is not a signature but a verbal agreement. I do not think Col has received the signed contract from what I understand. So for me, Col made the announcement too early without having received the signed contract. Also in French law, there is a time to retract. Gogo Stephano! Come on dude, read the next line. edit: Stephano contacted coL.CatZ and our COO Jason Bass to inform them he had made his final decision and told CatZ "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization. Signature Internet? An employment contract must be signed in France on paper ... So for me there is no time to sign it and send it to the other side of the world if it were yesterday ... You don't have printers/scanners in France? Or I'm pretty sure Stephano has a mic with which you can record statements. The signature must be real and not scanned for validation (to prevent false signatures). So for me it is a verbal agreement and not a real contract "validated". First of all, verbal agreements are valid in most countries. Second, it's perfectly fine to sign a contract and fax/email it. What? Verbal agreements mean nothing. Everything needs to be on paper.
Nope.
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EPT
