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On September 20 2011 17:19 Denar wrote:
Complexity should have contacted Millenium directly while they were going after Stephano.
This is also a moral rule that has caused drama in the past (PuMa is the most obvious example). If coL doesn't follow the moral rules (and not contacting the team that the player is playing for is sneaky), then the legal rules are what's left.
The conclusion of this story though is that many teams agree on the beast potential Stephano has, let's hope this is not wasted and that we'll see him competing at the best level!
What? Moral rules are for fools, the bottom line is what counts.
I don't understand how everyone is lambasting Complexity for this. They had a signed player essentially poached from them and instead people are arguing that Complexity is in the wrong. Comparing it to the Puma situation is hypocritical since Millenium/Stephano are the parties who improperly broke the contract.
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On September 20 2011 17:18 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 17:12 BrahCJ wrote:
At 18 life is about lessons. Complexity need to push the issue here to send the message home to not only Stephano but also any other young, impressionable players. And what exactly is the message ? Do you really think that it will help them recruit new players ?
The lesson that legally binding contracts, are indeed legally binding.
And don't sign shit, if you're not serious.
This kind of shit wouldn't fly in any other sport, and it won't fly in SC2.
He signed it, unless Millennium is willing to payout his contract with coL, I don't see how coL is in the wrong here.
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On September 20 2011 17:23 wei2coolman wrote:
Not to sound like a dick, but, they said "one of the highest paid sc2 players", does his achievements even warrant that kind of pay? Its not like they're trying to pick up MVP, or something....
It's not always about picking up the player with the best record (not saying Steph doesn't have a good record). Sometimes you want to pick up promising players with the right mindset to become great.
It's better to have Stephano when he wins GSL, MLG and DH the same year, than to buy him after he did.
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On September 20 2011 17:23 zaii wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 17:19 Denar wrote:
Complexity should have contacted Millenium directly while they were going after Stephano.
This is also a moral rule that has caused drama in the past (PuMa is the most obvious example). If coL doesn't follow the moral rules (and not contacting the team that the player is playing for is sneaky), then the legal rules are what's left.
The conclusion of this story though is that many teams agree on the beast potential Stephano has, let's hope this is not wasted and that we'll see him competing at the best level! hah... iirc weren't Col and Millenium in a bidding war for Stephano?
Yes, complexity talked about this bidding war. But at the same time, Millenium's manager posted on a French website (Source) saying that they were not contacted by coL.
Makes me wonder what this bidding war must have looked like ahah
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On September 20 2011 17:23 zaii wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 17:19 Denar wrote:
Complexity should have contacted Millenium directly while they were going after Stephano.
This is also a moral rule that has caused drama in the past (PuMa is the most obvious example). If coL doesn't follow the moral rules (and not contacting the team that the player is playing for is sneaky), then the legal rules are what's left.
The conclusion of this story though is that many teams agree on the beast potential Stephano has, let's hope this is not wasted and that we'll see him competing at the best level! hah... iirc weren't Col and Millenium in a bidding war for Stephano?
As far as Millenium knew, Stephano turned down Col 5 days ago and it was over.
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On September 20 2011 17:28 Cuddle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 17:23 wei2coolman wrote:
Not to sound like a dick, but, they said "one of the highest paid sc2 players", does his achievements even warrant that kind of pay? Its not like they're trying to pick up MVP, or something.... It's not always about picking up the player with the best record (not saying Steph doesn't have a good record). Sometimes you want to pick up promising players with the right mindset to become great. It's better to have Stephano when he wins GSL, MLG and DH the same year, than to buy him after he did.
The whole point of picking an up and comer is, that you dont' have to pay big bucks for them. Just look at NBA, or NFL, teams always pick up up and comers for cheap, because they feel it'll be worth the investment later on. This is different, the teams are willing to pay top dollar on a "possible" great player? silly. If teams are going to bid ridiculous salaries for a stephano-level of player, then this is the exact same shit that happened to WC3.
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On September 20 2011 17:26 Horse...falcon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 17:19 Denar wrote:
Complexity should have contacted Millenium directly while they were going after Stephano.
This is also a moral rule that has caused drama in the past (PuMa is the most obvious example). If coL doesn't follow the moral rules (and not contacting the team that the player is playing for is sneaky), then the legal rules are what's left.
The conclusion of this story though is that many teams agree on the beast potential Stephano has, let's hope this is not wasted and that we'll see him competing at the best level! What? Moral rules are for fools, the bottom line is what counts.
And now CoL want to sue Stephano in the name of Moral ??? what is wrong with them...
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Anyone else feel this is going to be bad for other french players trying to get into teams? And in some weird way benefit Millenium in the long run since now most teams are going to think twice before signing a french player knowing they can simply opt out 29 days into their contract, which could lead to Millenium being the only team that takes in french players.
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On September 20 2011 17:25 jmbthirteen wrote:
Nice to see another wave of french spam accounts... wish I had a report button, still 6 months away...
I reported the one a few posts above yours for obvious reasons. There are a lot of people with the report button, dont worry, besides mods are usually on top of things 
This whole situation is a mess that was easy to avoid. Unless someone pointed a gun at stephano to get the contract signed I dont know what else they could've done wrong. Even if karpo insists that we dont know the full story etc, with what we know (that stephano signed a contract with col without a gun or some threat) it seems that it is his own fault, not even Milleniums' fault if they actually didnt know about it until it was public. (strange if they were in a bidding war)
The fact that the contract may be poorly writen like karpo said is only relevant for a court discussion, not for what people are claiming around here. You sign something, you are responsible for it, for your actions.
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On September 20 2011 17:29 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 17:23 zaii wrote:On September 20 2011 17:19 Denar wrote:
Complexity should have contacted Millenium directly while they were going after Stephano.
This is also a moral rule that has caused drama in the past (PuMa is the most obvious example). If coL doesn't follow the moral rules (and not contacting the team that the player is playing for is sneaky), then the legal rules are what's left.
The conclusion of this story though is that many teams agree on the beast potential Stephano has, let's hope this is not wasted and that we'll see him competing at the best level! hah... iirc weren't Col and Millenium in a bidding war for Stephano? As far as Millenium knew, Stephano turned down Col 5 days ago and it was over.
Too bad stephano's probably pressured down by Millenium because he's the only top french player they still have.
They say they got more money than coL when they offer stephano the minimum wage ?
-_-
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On September 20 2011 17:28 Denar wrote:Yes, complexity talked about this bidding war. But at the same time, Millenium's manager posted on a French website ( Source) saying that they were not contacted by coL. Makes me wonder what this bidding war must have looked like ahah
Most likely something like this:
1: Col made an offer.
2: Stephano told Mill that he got an offer (from coL)
3: Mill made an offer.
4: Stephano told coL that he got an offer (from Mill)
5: goto1
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On September 20 2011 17:33 RedHelix wrote:
Anyone else feel this is going to be bad for other french players trying to get into teams? And in some weird way benefit Millenium in the long run since now most teams are going to think twice before signing a french player knowing they can simply opt out 29 days into their contract, which could lead to Millenium being the only team that takes in french players.
That's what Millenium want, keep french esport in France, don't go outside it's scary, to supposely develop France esport
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Sounds to me like Millenium manipulating Stephano
Sad day and CoL should seriously consider legal actions
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The techniques used by Complexity to recruit Stephano were quite disorienting to influence our young player towards a bad decision. After a long discussion, Stephano understood his mistake and decided to stay with Millenium for the next 12 months
Oh god are you kidding me? The most pathetic thing about this deal is Millenium's response. Instead of owning up to their mistake they decided to spin it to blame Complexity. What did Complexity do wrong? Not contact Millenium? That's Stephano's fault for keeping them in the dark.
In the end I hope Complexity does the right thing and lets it slide. However I would be 100% behind them if they did decide to purse legal action. The people here trying to find a way to blame Complexity for this mess are just grasping for straws.
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This is very strange I don't know who is right or wrong. :-/ but hell. As long as stephano gets a good deal as possible. Good training inn Korea perhaps.
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I don't know with which team Stephano SIGNED the contract first (or if it was legally binding), but whichever he did, that team claims the rights to him. It's as simple as that.
The techniques used by Complexity to recruit Stephano were quite disorienting to influence our young player towards a bad decision. After a long discussion, Stephano understood his mistake and decided to stay with Millenium for the next 12 months.
This sounds shady as fuck, especially the bolded part. I HOPE it's only the translation, otherwise this sounds like something straight out of a Bond villain's mouth.
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On September 20 2011 17:36 Noxblood wrote:
This is very strange I don't know who is right or wrong. :-/ but hell. As long as stephano gets a good deal as possible. Good training inn Korea perhaps.
Doubt that.
Millenium doesn't have any partnership with a korean team yes, and that's means no training house.
Col was probably the better choice, if Stephano really wanted to go abroad. But Col doesn't have a training house in Marseille...
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On September 20 2011 17:37 Plague1503 wrote:
I don't know with which team Stephano SIGNED the contract first (or if it was legally binding), but whichever he did, that team claims the rights to him. It's as simple as that.
The techniques used by Complexity to recruit Stephano were quite disorienting to influence our young player towards a bad decision. After a long discussion, Stephano understood his mistake and decided to stay with Millenium for the next 12 months.
This sounds shady as fuck, especially the bolded part. I HOPE it's only the translation, otherwise this sounds like something straight out of a Bond villain's mouth.
agree on both parts
It's funny how people are throwing around assumptions and even blaming complexity for contracting stephano (lol what the..?). Bottom line is, if he signed a binding contract, he has to abide by it, otherwise...he doesn't. Nothing more to it, basicly a legal problem from now on.
Millenium trying to make it look like Complexity is some sort of Mafia organisation that talked Stephano into something evil is - on the other hands - despicable. My sympathy currently definitely goes towards Col, since they at least act professionally and don't throw random insults at Millenium.
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I think it is time to stop bitching around.
It is known that American and French (most likely european or just none american) have a different way of considering business and contrats in general. It is well known that french people find absurd the way americans tend to sue people for everything. In any case, it is a matter of difference of culture and no one should even try to judge or comment that.
It is true that in France, we have some laws that protect people against forced contracts or uneducated signatures and that we have ways of canceling some in certains circumstances. In any way, since every country has laws that can be contradictory and since the laws do not apply based on your nationality, there is no way to say that theses french mecanisms can applied.
In my opinion, if he signed an amercian contrat, since coL does not have a company headquater in France, they have no obligation to respect french laws. But, normally when you work in the states as a foreigner you should get a visa. What I want to say is that we don't how theses contract are done and who is right.
Notice, that we don't really know what happened, what was the mindset of Stephano and what pressure did he get from both sides (and maybe his familly). Even if he should respect his decisions, even more if they are contracted, he is young and we should allow him to make mistakes (which does not exclude him from honoring a contract). Especially for this kind of things, that are a really marginal in France. Just wait a little bit and hope that HE (himself) will explain what happened.
The point is, regardless of who is right in a juridic term, if Stephano was ensure of his decisions, he should have waited.
As a french esport fan since the begining, I am a bit sad of the behavior of Stephano, but keep in mind that esport should be stronger that mere nationality issues. We are the ones that should be above all that.
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On September 20 2011 17:42 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 17:37 Plague1503 wrote:
I don't know with which team Stephano SIGNED the contract first (or if it was legally binding), but whichever he did, that team claims the rights to him. It's as simple as that.
The techniques used by Complexity to recruit Stephano were quite disorienting to influence our young player towards a bad decision. After a long discussion, Stephano understood his mistake and decided to stay with Millenium for the next 12 months.
This sounds shady as fuck, especially the bolded part. I HOPE it's only the translation, otherwise this sounds like something straight out of a Bond villain's mouth. agree on both parts It's funny how people are throwing around assumptions and even blaming complexity for contracting stephano (lol what the..?). Bottom line is, if he signed a binding contract, he has to abide by it, otherwise...he doesn't. Nothing more to it, basicly a legal problem from now on. Millenium trying to make it look like Complexity is some sort of Mafia organisation that talked Stephano into something evil is - on the other hands - despicable. My sympathy currently definitely goes towards Col, since they at least act professionally and don't throw random insults at Millenium.
Millenium's Godfather made Stephano an offer he couldn't refuse.
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EPT
