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Stephano contract situation - Page 119

Forum Index > SC2 General
3152 CommentsPost a Reply
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Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103)

Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there.
Clicker
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1012 Posts
September 20 2011 01:31 GMT
#2361
It's a shitty situation but I what would they be after legally? To try and hold him to his contract that he signed. If I was col, I'd want to, but you just can't. If he really wants to stay with Mil, then it'd be a bad idea. He'd be unhappy and it just wouldn't be beneficial to either party. On the other hand, maybe he's regretting it now and he could be hoping for that to happen >.>

Either way, I hope Stephano releases a statement himself I'm interested to hear the reasoning behind the decision.
Stephano would've been "one of the highest paid SC2 players in the world" at Complexity and they ensured that he would get "global travel" including to Korea.

To pass that up is crazy, I know personal relationships with the team are important but that is an incredible opportunity he passed up.
Omnipresent
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States871 Posts
September 20 2011 01:31 GMT
#2362
On September 20 2011 10:22 skyrunner wrote:
haha everyone stop saying stephano is a kid. he's 18...

if he was like 14 i'd understand

I actually just went to check this before you posted. Everyone is making such a huge deal out of how young he is. 18 is young, for sure, but it's definitely old enough to know the power and significance of a contract.

It's obviously unwise for Stephano to talk publicly about this without thinking, but he should probably prepare a statement before too long. CoL and Millenium are both going to come out of this just fine, but Stephano looks bad.
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
September 20 2011 01:33 GMT
#2363
On September 20 2011 10:20 ReaperX wrote:
Hopefully compLexity takes legal action and quires Stephano because I think Stephano wll get more exposure to foreign tournaments (outside of EU)

Do you honestly think Stephano will play to his full potentional when they "drag" him away against his own will?
Lliane
Profile Joined September 2010
Japan101 Posts
September 20 2011 01:34 GMT
#2364
The saddest point is probably that in all my French Fellows, less than 5% knows how a contract work. I hope coL will sue to settle this matter, which will help the French scene to realize that they can't breach any agreement like this. France is not South Korea, a contract is and should stay serious business here, not something you can change one sidely.
야 오빠 ! 스타크래프트 너가 가르쳐주세요 !
Frankon
Profile Joined May 2010
3054 Posts
September 20 2011 01:35 GMT
#2365
On September 20 2011 09:52 Callosum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 09:48 arbitrageur wrote:
On September 20 2011 09:43 Chargelot wrote:
On September 20 2011 09:32 OzVelas wrote:
On September 20 2011 09:24 Ownos wrote:
On September 20 2011 09:06 Bluest wrote:
First, I'm not so sure Stephano can't still join CoL. If CoL wants him he can and they certainly haven't ruled it explicitly yet. More importantly, if CoL doesn't do anything to enforce these contracts it will make all their contracts and the contracts they get people to sign in the future useless pieces of paper. Frankly, it wouldn't be a bad idea for all e-sports teams tocome together and spend a few grand here to help CoL out so they could collectively send a message here.


That's pretty much the goal. It was in the linked article. They likely will not get Stephano. They probably wouldn't accept him back. They're just going to make an example out of Millennium. :X


How ? They have 0 chance to win if they take action in france. Stephano has a period to retract from his contract, its a french law and french law rules in france.


The contract was filed using American laws. He knew this, I'm guessing. The jurisdiction is in Texas, USA. It has nothing to do with French laws, it's American laws that matter in this case.

How can you use US laws in france? extradition?


You would file suit in the US, Texas in this case. If you win, you take your judgment to France and file it with a French court to have it enforced as if it were a French judgment. The case itself will then take place in the US with US laws applying, but the judgment will be enforced in France.

It would be enforced only if it wouldn't be breaking french law. And from this thread its possible for French (and i believe more Eu countries) to make a signed contract null in a week after the signing. I know cause i had a telecomunication contract nulled this way.
esotericc
Profile Joined July 2011
449 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 01:37:49
September 20 2011 01:36 GMT
#2366
I hope they do pursue legal action to make it clear this kind of behaviour isn't acceptable. Not that it matters but I will personally boycott any tournament that has stephano/mil in it(that isn't a huge event) and urge anyone that actually cares about esports and a proper business model to do so as well.

I hope he never gets on a real team after this behaviour, he can rot in mil for all I care
Bro_Stone
Profile Joined April 2011
United States510 Posts
September 20 2011 01:37 GMT
#2367
?????????
Stim Go Go GO!
JEEPFiretruck
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia106 Posts
September 20 2011 01:38 GMT
#2368
Sigh more esports drama... maybe people should really consider what they are doing before actually doing it -.- worse than Australian footballers with foot in mouth syndrome -_-
"ya mum loved me last night" - SuperWog
Nikerym
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia17 Posts
September 20 2011 01:41 GMT
#2369
I don't know about american law, but in Australia, all contracts have a 7 day withdrawal period where either party can legally withdraw from the contract within 7 days (provided no money/services have changed hands)

I'm sure most countries would have something similar.
ulan-bat
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
China403 Posts
September 20 2011 01:41 GMT
#2370
On September 20 2011 10:29 Apom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 10:06 DeepElemBlues wrote:
And then changing his mind and relying on "loopholes" to hopefully get out of it.


it's not a loophole in france as far as i know, it's more of a part of management-labor relations. unions and individuals have a lot more power in the workplace there than they do here, so it's not a surprise that they'd have a grace period for contracts where the one signing can back out.
1. This "grace period" is not mandatory. It has to be explicitly written in the employment contract, or it doesn't exist. It would be perfectly valid, under French law, for Stephano to sign an employment contract without it. However, in practice I do not know any long-term employment contract that does not have such a provision, because :

2. What you call "backing out" is not limited to the employee. It is equally possible for the employer to back out during this "grace period", and in practice it is the more common occurence (the reason for this is that dismissing an employee after this point is fairly difficult in French law, hence some employers will abuse the grace period to repeatedly hire people for one day less than the grace period).

3. There is actually something similar in British law. However, it is much easier to dismiss employees in British law than in French law, so this disposition is almost never seen across the Channel (which kind of proves that it is actually more attractive to companies than to workers, and not merely the product of *cough* French communism).

4. While you personnally did not use those terms, I have often seen terms such as "breach", "break" or "void" the contract to describe using the "grace period" provision. All those terms are inadequate. A more adequate term is "terminate". The contract is no longer applicable, but it was applicable up to that point, and all its obligations were held (by both parties : employee had to work, employer had to pay). You do not breach, or break, or void anything when you terminate your WoW subscription, and this is exactly the same.


Oh yeah, this !

1, 2 and 3 sums it all (for the legal part at least, the drama will keep rolling though).
"Short games, shorts, summer weather, those things bring the heat!" - EG.iNcontroL
DiaBoLuS
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany1638 Posts
September 20 2011 01:43 GMT
#2371
On September 20 2011 02:49 Merfyn wrote:
From the other thread:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 02:47 coljbass wrote:
coL din not make the announcement too soon. We have a signed contract from him. So legally he can not change his mind. We will wait to talk to him and see what is going on.


what on earth is going down?!


sounds like you talk to your player a lot before making announcements and stuff... shouldnt you be in contact every day???
European Ranking: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=182293
Arkless
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1547 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 01:46:20
September 20 2011 01:44 GMT
#2372
4) Yesterday Stephano contacted coL.CatZ and our COO Jason Bass to inform them he had made his final decision and told CatZ "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization. He seemed genuinely excited to be a part of our organization and joined our private Skype channel to chat with the team before going to bed.



Let's see papers, with a signature. I doubt very much a verbal contract over the internet cross continent is considered legal anywhere. (Not saying this like " YOU OWE US PAPER WITH SIGNATURE") More or less I am confused about what exactly "executing a legally binding contract" means specifically. That is a statement that is very open to interpretation. Honor is another thing entirely.

Sorry if this was answered earlier in the thread
http://www.mixcloud.com/Arkless/ http://www.soundcloud.com/Arkless
Skrillex
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada48 Posts
September 20 2011 01:45 GMT
#2373


Complexity are "seriously consider(ing) legal action in this matter"

I was reading comments on the coL articles and many peoples said that by French law, People can bail out of any contract withing 30 days since the contract was signed.
I don't know if they can make any legal action . :/
"Masked call = Hoody answer" -Jeff Lee "So Imma freak out but just a little bit" -iNcontroL
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
September 20 2011 01:46 GMT
#2374
On September 20 2011 10:43 DiaBoLuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 02:49 Merfyn wrote:
From the other thread:
On September 20 2011 02:47 coljbass wrote:
coL din not make the announcement too soon. We have a signed contract from him. So legally he can not change his mind. We will wait to talk to him and see what is going on.


what on earth is going down?!


sounds like you talk to your player a lot before making announcements and stuff... shouldnt you be in contact every day???


mil/stephano are ignoring anything sent by complexity any e-mails anything. So hard to contact someone who just ignores you.
When I think of something else, something will go here
esotericc
Profile Joined July 2011
449 Posts
September 20 2011 01:47 GMT
#2375
On September 20 2011 10:45 Skrillex wrote:
Show nested quote +


Complexity are "seriously consider(ing) legal action in this matter"

I was reading comments on the coL articles and many peoples said that by French law, People can bail out of any contract withing 30 days since the contract was signed.
I don't know if they can make any legal action . :/


Contract was not an employment contract and was signed under Texas jurisdiction, read the thread...
ch33psh33p
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
7650 Posts
September 20 2011 01:48 GMT
#2376
On September 20 2011 10:46 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 10:43 DiaBoLuS wrote:
On September 20 2011 02:49 Merfyn wrote:
From the other thread:
On September 20 2011 02:47 coljbass wrote:
coL din not make the announcement too soon. We have a signed contract from him. So legally he can not change his mind. We will wait to talk to him and see what is going on.


what on earth is going down?!


sounds like you talk to your player a lot before making announcements and stuff... shouldnt you be in contact every day???


mil/stephano are ignoring anything sent by complexity any e-mails anything. So hard to contact someone who just ignores you.


Extremely immature on behalf of Mil, and moreso Stephano, who should at least have the diginity to speak up in this situation.
secret - never again
mattdevils
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada20 Posts
September 20 2011 01:48 GMT
#2377
These guys really need Agents.
GP
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1056 Posts
September 20 2011 01:48 GMT
#2378
On September 20 2011 10:44 Arkless wrote:
Show nested quote +
4) Yesterday Stephano contacted coL.CatZ and our COO Jason Bass to inform them he had made his final decision and told CatZ "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization. He seemed genuinely excited to be a part of our organization and joined our private Skype channel to chat with the team before going to bed.



Let's see papers, with a signature. I doubt very much a verbal contract over the internet cross continent is considered legal anywhere. (Not saying this like " YOU OWE US PAPER WITH SIGNATURE") More or less I am confused about what exactly "executing a legally binding contract" means specifically. That is a statement that is very open to interpretation. Honor is another thing entirely.

Sorry if this was answered earlier in the thread

I don't think they'd make such statements without an actual hard copy signed. A contract like that is not for your eyes, it's for the disputed parties, their lawyers, and a judge.
EightyFive
Profile Joined May 2011
58 Posts
September 20 2011 01:50 GMT
#2379
And this is why you approach a team with an offer first, and not the player. The same happens in sports and it works.
mebeblood
Profile Joined November 2010
United States27 Posts
September 20 2011 01:50 GMT
#2380
On September 20 2011 10:44 Arkless wrote:
Show nested quote +
4) Yesterday Stephano contacted coL.CatZ and our COO Jason Bass to inform them he had made his final decision and told CatZ "Don't worry I won't change my mind again." He then executed a legally binding contract with our organization. He seemed genuinely excited to be a part of our organization and joined our private Skype channel to chat with the team before going to bed.



Let's see papers, with a signature. I doubt very much a verbal contract over the internet cross continent is considered legal anywhere. (Not saying this like " YOU OWE US PAPER WITH SIGNATURE") More or less I am confused about what exactly "executing a legally binding contract" means specifically. That is a statement that is very open to interpretation. Honor is another thing entirely.

Sorry if this was answered earlier in the thread


Yeah this has been answered, they used some digital signing method. Here is a link where they said the actual thing. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/kks4e/complexitys_statement_regarding_stephano/c2l2ch6
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