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On September 20 2011 09:34 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:27 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:57 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:51 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:47 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:39 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:36 AntiGrav1ty wrote:On September 20 2011 08:11 AutomatonOmega wrote:On September 19 2011 16:44 NowLookHere wrote:On September 19 2011 16:39 SafeAsCheese wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, I am sure every other pro is totally all like "That guy was awesome, totally outplayed me, I wish I could be like them." when they lose.
Right or not doesn't matter, it's just not how the human mind works. Wrong, that's just not how Idra's mind works. Watch a post-match interview of truly elite athletes like Tom Brady, Rafael Nadal, etc, they will always admit there are things they can do better (after a big win and ESPECIALLY after a big loss). The greats know there's always room to improve and that they can only control their own play, that's why they focus on their mistakes and ways to improve. The players who are busy complaining about external factors or failing to take responsibility for their own mistakes are the ones who never achieve their potential. Those guys don't play a game where they're expected to play against average joes for practice. They're in a community where everyone (to a certain extent) is elite. You cannot compare the two without being utterly and hopelessly biased. (Which you are.) When an athlete in any sports loses to someone who is considered a lot weaker or an underdog they certainly dont say that he is bad after they lose. Nobody ever does that in real sports... those underdogs are still full time professional players in fields with much deeper and more developed talent pools than a 1 year old esport. meh come on it's irrelevent, you'd do this even if SC2 had been around for 10 years how many top flight bw pros did i legitimately call bad? i say legitimately because someone will point out how i said free's micro wasnt actually micro, but on the whole ive always respected good players. the structure of esports and particularly sc2 means that im playing with and occasionally competing with people who are actually bad by objective standards. and the design of sc2 means its possible for them to beat me through no merit of their own. I honestly don't know about your entire history of calling people bad, I just know you tend to call people bad on the fly based on your emotions particularly huk.. and then you changed your mind when he joined ur team  i referenced huk as the proper way to play pvz on itg or sotg quite a while before he joined eg you still called him horrible after you lost to him more than once, as I said, you make these statements when you're mad
I am pretty sure he called him "a piece of trash that wouldn't win any games if he didn't play protoss". But I don't really think he was referencing that he was necessarily a bad player just played the game really abusive. Especially since at the time there wasn't much you could do in PvZ and I imagine IdrA was frustrated at the state of the game.
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On September 20 2011 09:34 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:27 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:57 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:51 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:47 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:39 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:36 AntiGrav1ty wrote:On September 20 2011 08:11 AutomatonOmega wrote:On September 19 2011 16:44 NowLookHere wrote:On September 19 2011 16:39 SafeAsCheese wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, I am sure every other pro is totally all like "That guy was awesome, totally outplayed me, I wish I could be like them." when they lose.
Right or not doesn't matter, it's just not how the human mind works. Wrong, that's just not how Idra's mind works. Watch a post-match interview of truly elite athletes like Tom Brady, Rafael Nadal, etc, they will always admit there are things they can do better (after a big win and ESPECIALLY after a big loss). The greats know there's always room to improve and that they can only control their own play, that's why they focus on their mistakes and ways to improve. The players who are busy complaining about external factors or failing to take responsibility for their own mistakes are the ones who never achieve their potential. Those guys don't play a game where they're expected to play against average joes for practice. They're in a community where everyone (to a certain extent) is elite. You cannot compare the two without being utterly and hopelessly biased. (Which you are.) When an athlete in any sports loses to someone who is considered a lot weaker or an underdog they certainly dont say that he is bad after they lose. Nobody ever does that in real sports... those underdogs are still full time professional players in fields with much deeper and more developed talent pools than a 1 year old esport. meh come on it's irrelevent, you'd do this even if SC2 had been around for 10 years how many top flight bw pros did i legitimately call bad? i say legitimately because someone will point out how i said free's micro wasnt actually micro, but on the whole ive always respected good players. the structure of esports and particularly sc2 means that im playing with and occasionally competing with people who are actually bad by objective standards. and the design of sc2 means its possible for them to beat me through no merit of their own. I honestly don't know about your entire history of calling people bad, I just know you tend to call people bad on the fly based on your emotions particularly huk.. and then you changed your mind when he joined ur team i referenced huk as the proper way to play pvz on itg or sotg quite a while before he joined eg you still called him horrible after you lost to him more than once, as I said, you make these statements when you're mad
winning games doesnt make a player not horrible. being good does.
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he does have a point though, SC2 skill ceiling is so much lower than SC1 just with these alone:
smartcast
MBS (macro AND rallypoints mind you)
255 unit selection
so honestly I do agree with him when objectively bad people are able to beat him because idra devoted all of his time into learning mechanics, then SC2 came around and now everyone of us are carried to having amazing mechanics thanks to blizzard's game design.
You see the same stuff with boxer july and nada. I dare say if flash or jaedong switched they'd be fast as hell but because everyone else is also fast mechanics wise thanks to blizzard they'd lose many games compared to what we would expect.
That said I prefer sc2 game design only because I can actually play it now w/o spending hours and hours practicing. From a viewers standpoint though, BW is so much better to watch
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On September 20 2011 09:41 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:27 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:57 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:51 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:47 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:39 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:36 AntiGrav1ty wrote:On September 20 2011 08:11 AutomatonOmega wrote:On September 19 2011 16:44 NowLookHere wrote:
[quote]
Wrong, that's just not how Idra's mind works.
Watch a post-match interview of truly elite athletes like Tom Brady, Rafael Nadal, etc, they will always admit there are things they can do better (after a big win and ESPECIALLY after a big loss). The greats know there's always room to improve and that they can only control their own play, that's why they focus on their mistakes and ways to improve. The players who are busy complaining about external factors or failing to take responsibility for their own mistakes are the ones who never achieve their potential. Those guys don't play a game where they're expected to play against average joes for practice. They're in a community where everyone (to a certain extent) is elite. You cannot compare the two without being utterly and hopelessly biased. (Which you are.) When an athlete in any sports loses to someone who is considered a lot weaker or an underdog they certainly dont say that he is bad after they lose. Nobody ever does that in real sports... those underdogs are still full time professional players in fields with much deeper and more developed talent pools than a 1 year old esport. meh come on it's irrelevent, you'd do this even if SC2 had been around for 10 years how many top flight bw pros did i legitimately call bad? i say legitimately because someone will point out how i said free's micro wasnt actually micro, but on the whole ive always respected good players. the structure of esports and particularly sc2 means that im playing with and occasionally competing with people who are actually bad by objective standards. and the design of sc2 means its possible for them to beat me through no merit of their own. I honestly don't know about your entire history of calling people bad, I just know you tend to call people bad on the fly based on your emotions particularly huk.. and then you changed your mind when he joined ur team i referenced huk as the proper way to play pvz on itg or sotg quite a while before he joined eg you still called him horrible after you lost to him more than once, as I said, you make these statements when you're mad winning games doesnt make a player not horrible. being good does.
how are we supposed to judge someone who's good from someone who isn't if it isn't from actual overall results...? which consists of wins and losses lol
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On September 20 2011 08:56 AntiGrav1ty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 08:39 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:36 AntiGrav1ty wrote:On September 20 2011 08:11 AutomatonOmega wrote:On September 19 2011 16:44 NowLookHere wrote:On September 19 2011 16:39 SafeAsCheese wrote:On September 19 2011 16:37 NowLookHere wrote:
Hahahaha... no wonder Idra hasn't won anything in forever. He's a mental midget. Yeah, I am sure every other pro is totally all like "That guy was awesome, totally outplayed me, I wish I could be like them." when they lose. Right or not doesn't matter, it's just not how the human mind works. Wrong, that's just not how Idra's mind works. Watch a post-match interview of truly elite athletes like Tom Brady, Rafael Nadal, etc, they will always admit there are things they can do better (after a big win and ESPECIALLY after a big loss). The greats know there's always room to improve and that they can only control their own play, that's why they focus on their mistakes and ways to improve. The players who are busy complaining about external factors or failing to take responsibility for their own mistakes are the ones who never achieve their potential. Those guys don't play a game where they're expected to play against average joes for practice. They're in a community where everyone (to a certain extent) is elite. You cannot compare the two without being utterly and hopelessly biased. (Which you are.) When an athlete in any sports loses to someone who is considered a lot weaker or an underdog they certainly dont say that he is bad after they lose. Nobody ever does that in real sports... those underdogs are still full time professional players in fields with much deeper and more developed talent pools than a 1 year old esport. So you dont have to respect sc2 players because the talent pool isnt as deep. Then what makes Idra better than that lowly talent pool in sc2 which he is part of btw? That he is a fulltime player? He doesn't even respect all the other fulltime players. There is no logical reasoning behind his BM. It's just BM and venting. Personally i don't even care about it, but dont make it out to be something it isnt.
no, you're more likely to play against bad players because there aren't as many people who are actually good at sc2. if you look at the people im talking about in that video there are only a handful who are known at all, and those are people like tt1 and i think its quite defensible to call him a bad player.
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On September 20 2011 09:44 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:41 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:27 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:57 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:51 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:47 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:39 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:36 AntiGrav1ty wrote:On September 20 2011 08:11 AutomatonOmega wrote:
[quote]
Those guys don't play a game where they're expected to play against average joes for practice. They're in a community where everyone (to a certain extent) is elite. You cannot compare the two without being utterly and hopelessly biased. (Which you are.) When an athlete in any sports loses to someone who is considered a lot weaker or an underdog they certainly dont say that he is bad after they lose. Nobody ever does that in real sports... those underdogs are still full time professional players in fields with much deeper and more developed talent pools than a 1 year old esport. meh come on it's irrelevent, you'd do this even if SC2 had been around for 10 years how many top flight bw pros did i legitimately call bad? i say legitimately because someone will point out how i said free's micro wasnt actually micro, but on the whole ive always respected good players. the structure of esports and particularly sc2 means that im playing with and occasionally competing with people who are actually bad by objective standards. and the design of sc2 means its possible for them to beat me through no merit of their own. I honestly don't know about your entire history of calling people bad, I just know you tend to call people bad on the fly based on your emotions particularly huk.. and then you changed your mind when he joined ur team i referenced huk as the proper way to play pvz on itg or sotg quite a while before he joined eg you still called him horrible after you lost to him more than once, as I said, you make these statements when you're mad winning games doesnt make a player not horrible. being good does. how are we supposed to judge someone who's good from someone who isn't if it isn't from actual overall results...? which consists of wins and losses lol
watching them play?
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On September 20 2011 09:45 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:44 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:41 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:27 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:57 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:51 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:47 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:39 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:36 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
[quote]
When an athlete in any sports loses to someone who is considered a lot weaker or an underdog they certainly dont say that he is bad after they lose. Nobody ever does that in real sports... those underdogs are still full time professional players in fields with much deeper and more developed talent pools than a 1 year old esport. meh come on it's irrelevent, you'd do this even if SC2 had been around for 10 years how many top flight bw pros did i legitimately call bad? i say legitimately because someone will point out how i said free's micro wasnt actually micro, but on the whole ive always respected good players. the structure of esports and particularly sc2 means that im playing with and occasionally competing with people who are actually bad by objective standards. and the design of sc2 means its possible for them to beat me through no merit of their own. I honestly don't know about your entire history of calling people bad, I just know you tend to call people bad on the fly based on your emotions particularly huk.. and then you changed your mind when he joined ur team i referenced huk as the proper way to play pvz on itg or sotg quite a while before he joined eg you still called him horrible after you lost to him more than once, as I said, you make these statements when you're mad winning games doesnt make a player not horrible. being good does. how are we supposed to judge someone who's good from someone who isn't if it isn't from actual overall results...? which consists of wins and losses lol watching them play?
Who would you say is 'good' yet consistently loses?
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On September 20 2011 09:48 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:45 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:44 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:41 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:27 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:57 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:51 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:47 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:39 IdrA wrote:
[quote]
those underdogs are still full time professional players in fields with much deeper and more developed talent pools than a 1 year old esport. meh come on it's irrelevent, you'd do this even if SC2 had been around for 10 years how many top flight bw pros did i legitimately call bad? i say legitimately because someone will point out how i said free's micro wasnt actually micro, but on the whole ive always respected good players. the structure of esports and particularly sc2 means that im playing with and occasionally competing with people who are actually bad by objective standards. and the design of sc2 means its possible for them to beat me through no merit of their own. I honestly don't know about your entire history of calling people bad, I just know you tend to call people bad on the fly based on your emotions particularly huk.. and then you changed your mind when he joined ur team i referenced huk as the proper way to play pvz on itg or sotg quite a while before he joined eg you still called him horrible after you lost to him more than once, as I said, you make these statements when you're mad winning games doesnt make a player not horrible. being good does. how are we supposed to judge someone who's good from someone who isn't if it isn't from actual overall results...? which consists of wins and losses lol watching them play? Who would you say is 'good' yet consistently loses?
Well not that "I" think he's good but I'm always hearing about how good Haypro is even though I've personally never seen him win a series. He usually dies to the same all in shit that I die to.
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EG should hire Rich to make a tunneling program, so Idra doesn't need to deal with the NA server
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On September 20 2011 09:45 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:44 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:41 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:27 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:57 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:51 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:47 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:39 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:36 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
[quote]
When an athlete in any sports loses to someone who is considered a lot weaker or an underdog they certainly dont say that he is bad after they lose. Nobody ever does that in real sports... those underdogs are still full time professional players in fields with much deeper and more developed talent pools than a 1 year old esport. meh come on it's irrelevent, you'd do this even if SC2 had been around for 10 years how many top flight bw pros did i legitimately call bad? i say legitimately because someone will point out how i said free's micro wasnt actually micro, but on the whole ive always respected good players. the structure of esports and particularly sc2 means that im playing with and occasionally competing with people who are actually bad by objective standards. and the design of sc2 means its possible for them to beat me through no merit of their own. I honestly don't know about your entire history of calling people bad, I just know you tend to call people bad on the fly based on your emotions particularly huk.. and then you changed your mind when he joined ur team i referenced huk as the proper way to play pvz on itg or sotg quite a while before he joined eg you still called him horrible after you lost to him more than once, as I said, you make these statements when you're mad winning games doesnt make a player not horrible. being good does. how are we supposed to judge someone who's good from someone who isn't if it isn't from actual overall results...? which consists of wins and losses lol watching them play?
then it just kind of becomes a matter of opinion, you're gonna judge according to the level you consider yourself to be at, same goes for every other competitive players
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On September 20 2011 09:42 askTeivospy wrote:
he does have a point though, SC2 skill ceiling is so much lower than SC1 just with these alone:
smartcast
MBS (macro AND rallypoints mind you)
255 unit selection
being able to rally your workers to a mineral patch makes the game objectively easier, but at the same time i'd argue that its such a boring, 100% mechanical, muscle memory ability that it takes away from the 'esports' and 'entertainment' factors. even though i know im being subjective i certainly dont watch starcraft to see artosis zooming in on a command center and going 'well look guys, it takes him 0.1 seconds longer to send workers than his opponent, THIS IS HUGE'. it might be true but i dont care.
you could make tennis courts bigger to make the game objectively harder, the fitter guy gains another advantage, but is it good for the sport? id argue that its probably not even relevant.
this is why i hate people bringing up sc1 as this pinicle of esports BECAUSE it was hard, as if thats a good enough reason.
On September 20 2011 09:48 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:45 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:44 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:41 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:27 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:57 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:51 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:47 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:39 IdrA wrote:
[quote]
those underdogs are still full time professional players in fields with much deeper and more developed talent pools than a 1 year old esport. meh come on it's irrelevent, you'd do this even if SC2 had been around for 10 years how many top flight bw pros did i legitimately call bad? i say legitimately because someone will point out how i said free's micro wasnt actually micro, but on the whole ive always respected good players. the structure of esports and particularly sc2 means that im playing with and occasionally competing with people who are actually bad by objective standards. and the design of sc2 means its possible for them to beat me through no merit of their own. I honestly don't know about your entire history of calling people bad, I just know you tend to call people bad on the fly based on your emotions particularly huk.. and then you changed your mind when he joined ur team i referenced huk as the proper way to play pvz on itg or sotg quite a while before he joined eg you still called him horrible after you lost to him more than once, as I said, you make these statements when you're mad winning games doesnt make a player not horrible. being good does. how are we supposed to judge someone who's good from someone who isn't if it isn't from actual overall results...? which consists of wins and losses lol watching them play? Who would you say is 'good' yet consistently loses?
oGsMC EL OH EL
On September 20 2011 09:51 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:45 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:44 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:41 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:27 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:57 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:51 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:47 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:39 IdrA wrote:
[quote]
those underdogs are still full time professional players in fields with much deeper and more developed talent pools than a 1 year old esport. meh come on it's irrelevent, you'd do this even if SC2 had been around for 10 years how many top flight bw pros did i legitimately call bad? i say legitimately because someone will point out how i said free's micro wasnt actually micro, but on the whole ive always respected good players. the structure of esports and particularly sc2 means that im playing with and occasionally competing with people who are actually bad by objective standards. and the design of sc2 means its possible for them to beat me through no merit of their own. I honestly don't know about your entire history of calling people bad, I just know you tend to call people bad on the fly based on your emotions particularly huk.. and then you changed your mind when he joined ur team i referenced huk as the proper way to play pvz on itg or sotg quite a while before he joined eg you still called him horrible after you lost to him more than once, as I said, you make these statements when you're mad winning games doesnt make a player not horrible. being good does. how are we supposed to judge someone who's good from someone who isn't if it isn't from actual overall results...? which consists of wins and losses lol watching them play? then it just kind of becomes a matter of opinion, you're gonna judge according to the level you consider yourself to be at, same goes for every other competitive players
isnt that the only metric that matters though? idra doesnt go out of his way to call bronze players faggots, only people who are close enough to end up competing with him. his point is that even though they compete at the 'same' level he feels he is much better.
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he may be right he definitely is facing bad players from time to time, but he has been known to disrespect people that weren't actually bad because he was mad. So when he actually says that about someone, I think nobody should take him seriously and just see it as venting
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On September 20 2011 09:42 askTeivospy wrote:
he does have a point though, SC2 skill ceiling is so much lower than SC1 just with these alone:
smartcast
MBS (macro AND rallypoints mind you)
255 unit selection
so honestly I do agree with him when objectively bad people are able to beat him because idra devoted all of his time into learning mechanics, then SC2 came around and now everyone of us are carried to having amazing mechanics thanks to blizzard's game design.
You see the same stuff with boxer july and nada. I dare say if flash or jaedong switched they'd be fast as hell but because everyone else is also fast mechanics wise thanks to blizzard they'd lose many games compared to what we would expect.
That said I prefer sc2 game design only because I can actually play it now w/o spending hours and hours practicing. From a viewers standpoint though, BW is so much better to watch
When someone hits the skill ceiling on either game, I'll be concerned. Until then...
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On September 20 2011 10:02 ReignFayth wrote:
he may be right he definitely is facing bad players from time to time, but he has been known to disrespect people that weren't actually bad because he was mad. So when he actually says that about someone, I think nobody should take him seriously and just see it as venting
but you could also argue that as we see at mlg, 99% of people are aweful compared to someone who actually takes playing as their job seriously? :d thus idra is right, everyone is bad!
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On September 20 2011 09:51 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:45 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:44 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:41 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:27 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:57 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:51 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:47 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:39 IdrA wrote:
[quote]
those underdogs are still full time professional players in fields with much deeper and more developed talent pools than a 1 year old esport. meh come on it's irrelevent, you'd do this even if SC2 had been around for 10 years how many top flight bw pros did i legitimately call bad? i say legitimately because someone will point out how i said free's micro wasnt actually micro, but on the whole ive always respected good players. the structure of esports and particularly sc2 means that im playing with and occasionally competing with people who are actually bad by objective standards. and the design of sc2 means its possible for them to beat me through no merit of their own. I honestly don't know about your entire history of calling people bad, I just know you tend to call people bad on the fly based on your emotions particularly huk.. and then you changed your mind when he joined ur team i referenced huk as the proper way to play pvz on itg or sotg quite a while before he joined eg you still called him horrible after you lost to him more than once, as I said, you make these statements when you're mad winning games doesnt make a player not horrible. being good does. how are we supposed to judge someone who's good from someone who isn't if it isn't from actual overall results...? which consists of wins and losses lol watching them play? then it just kind of becomes a matter of opinion, you're gonna judge according to the level you consider yourself to be at, same goes for every other competitive players
It's not exclusively opinion. You can generally tell when a player is playing well vs not well without needing the outcome of the game to answer it for you. I'm sure you've watched plenty of games where the loser of the game still looked pretty impressive, as well as winners of games making a lot of mistakes and playing a questionable style.
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On September 20 2011 10:06 Clog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:51 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:45 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:44 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:41 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:27 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:57 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:51 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:47 ReignFayth wrote:
[quote]
meh come on it's irrelevent, you'd do this even if SC2 had been around for 10 years how many top flight bw pros did i legitimately call bad? i say legitimately because someone will point out how i said free's micro wasnt actually micro, but on the whole ive always respected good players. the structure of esports and particularly sc2 means that im playing with and occasionally competing with people who are actually bad by objective standards. and the design of sc2 means its possible for them to beat me through no merit of their own. I honestly don't know about your entire history of calling people bad, I just know you tend to call people bad on the fly based on your emotions particularly huk.. and then you changed your mind when he joined ur team i referenced huk as the proper way to play pvz on itg or sotg quite a while before he joined eg you still called him horrible after you lost to him more than once, as I said, you make these statements when you're mad winning games doesnt make a player not horrible. being good does. how are we supposed to judge someone who's good from someone who isn't if it isn't from actual overall results...? which consists of wins and losses lol watching them play? then it just kind of becomes a matter of opinion, you're gonna judge according to the level you consider yourself to be at, same goes for every other competitive players It's not exclusively opinion. You can generally tell when a player is playing well vs not well without needing the outcome of the game to answer it for you. I'm sure you've watched plenty of games where the loser of the game still looked pretty impressive, as well as winners of games making a lot of mistakes and playing a questionable style.
I also watched several games where idra's opponent played well and idra called him trash
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makes me wonder what kind of childhood people who complain and do stupid shit like this had
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On September 20 2011 09:51 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:45 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:44 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:41 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 09:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 09:27 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:57 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:51 IdrA wrote:On September 20 2011 08:47 ReignFayth wrote:On September 20 2011 08:39 IdrA wrote:
[quote]
those underdogs are still full time professional players in fields with much deeper and more developed talent pools than a 1 year old esport. meh come on it's irrelevent, you'd do this even if SC2 had been around for 10 years how many top flight bw pros did i legitimately call bad? i say legitimately because someone will point out how i said free's micro wasnt actually micro, but on the whole ive always respected good players. the structure of esports and particularly sc2 means that im playing with and occasionally competing with people who are actually bad by objective standards. and the design of sc2 means its possible for them to beat me through no merit of their own. I honestly don't know about your entire history of calling people bad, I just know you tend to call people bad on the fly based on your emotions particularly huk.. and then you changed your mind when he joined ur team i referenced huk as the proper way to play pvz on itg or sotg quite a while before he joined eg you still called him horrible after you lost to him more than once, as I said, you make these statements when you're mad winning games doesnt make a player not horrible. being good does. how are we supposed to judge someone who's good from someone who isn't if it isn't from actual overall results...? which consists of wins and losses lol watching them play? then it just kind of becomes a matter of opinion, you're gonna judge according to the level you consider yourself to be at, same goes for every other competitive players
Dude, there is such a thing as an educated opinion and not all opinions are created equal. You'd trust a physicist's opinion on string theory more than a plumber's.
There are definitely objective observations you could make about one's play that may judged in relation to your experience of better players, but not be considered wholly subjective or unjustifiable.
Sorry for butting in.
Edit: IdrA may be blunt and extreme in how he expresses his opinions, but they're not baseless.
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On September 20 2011 09:42 askTeivospy wrote:
he does have a point though, SC2 skill ceiling is so much lower than SC1 just with these alone:
smartcast
MBS (macro AND rallypoints mind you)
255 unit selection
so honestly I do agree with him when objectively bad people are able to beat him because idra devoted all of his time into learning mechanics, then SC2 came around and now everyone of us are carried to having amazing mechanics thanks to blizzard's game design.
You see the same stuff with boxer july and nada. I dare say if flash or jaedong switched they'd be fast as hell but because everyone else is also fast mechanics wise thanks to blizzard they'd lose many games compared to what we would expect.
That said I prefer sc2 game design only because I can actually play it now w/o spending hours and hours practicing. From a viewers standpoint though, BW is so much better to watch
I would disagree, it has a different skill ceiling. You cant compare the two really because they are fundamentally two different games with different abilities, values, etc. The skill ceiling might actually be obscenely high if you use those AI programs as the peak ceiling for game play. What was needed in BW, might not be the focus of SC2. Both are extremely difficult, but with a young game like SC2 people are still getting used to the mechanics (when to inject, chrono, etc. for example.) While in BW individual unit position was paramount for a successful game.
Give it time and a chance, and don't jump to conclusions you cannot reasonably make. Compare the development of todays GSL players to Last septembers. Skill requirements are increasing quite drastically.
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Idra i love you.
And this video is very well made, I wish I could've seen it live, whenever I see Idra streaming I've never heard him commentating his play :/
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EPT
