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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On September 13 2011 04:19 ZeromuS wrote: Yeah took some attempts but i replicated that earlier today. Thought the FOW made a difference but in the end it didnt. Weird. I wonder if there's a way to standard how spaced-out your units are to get some better testing in? From the sounds of it, though, this will be a non-issue. | ||
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eksert
France656 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16125 Posts
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
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rale
United States40 Posts
In other words, the deflection isn't a change on the PTR. The zealots in the 1.3 video just weren't in perfect enough formation to prevent dropping entirely. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Dr8ws.jpg) | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
"if the original order was issued on a fogged location." This means you can't just shift-move drop onto a probe line and leave it. THAT IS ALL. If you actually watch your OL and don't just shift-move drop over the fog of war, you are fine. I have tested this for about an hour in PTR and non-PTR unit testers. | ||
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LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
At least it'll still be a little viable, but come on, ovies are already pretty easy to snipe, are they not? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On September 13 2011 05:06 rale wrote: A close look at the 1.3 video is very revealing. The 2nd baneling dropped gets deflected to the edge just like all of the ones in the 1.4 video. The 3rd and 4th manage to find a hole in the center, and the zealots dying makes enough room to allow all others to drop. In other words, the deflection isn't a change on the PTR. The zealots in the 1.3 video just weren't in perfect enough formation to prevent dropping entirely. Ooh, that's very revealing. So here's a thought: we could try running the same test, but BEFORE dropping the enemy banelings onto the zealots, dropp some banelings that are allied with the zealots in there and fill all the baneling-sized holes! Then, there's no chance of failure. | ||
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
On September 13 2011 05:19 Blazinghand wrote: So here's a thought: we could try running the same test, but BEFORE dropping the enemy banelings onto the zealots, dropp some banelings that are allied with the zealots in there and fill all the baneling-sized holes! Then, there's no chance of failure. Not quite right, dropping allied banes will make new holes. The key here is the footprint of units, such as Zealots and Stalkers. If you have a bunch of Stalkers right-clicked on a Colossus, are there holes to drop on? | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13414 Posts
On September 13 2011 05:19 Blazinghand wrote: Ooh, that's very revealing. So here's a thought: we could try running the same test, but BEFORE dropping the enemy banelings onto the zealots, dropp some banelings that are allied with the zealots in there and fill all the baneling-sized holes! Then, there's no chance of failure. Very smart. I would do this if i was at home but unfortunately am not atm. Another thing to note is would someone try in a custom game with someone else to do a shift queue baneling drop into a mineral line? Doesnt really matter which match up - just to see if this effects automated through shift commands baneling drops in the mineral line. | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On September 13 2011 05:23 ZeromuS wrote: Very smart. I would do this if i was at home but unfortunately am not atm. Another thing to note is would someone try in a custom game with someone else to do a shift queue baneling drop into a mineral line? Doesnt really matter which match up - just to see if this effects automated through shift commands baneling drops in the mineral line. I'm not sure this would have any impact though, right? I thought mining works take up 0 pathing space while mining, so the mineral line drops should be unaffected-- the banelings will be able to jump out like normal unless there's a bunch of tightly-packed units already in the mineral line. EDIt On September 13 2011 05:22 MangoTango wrote: Not quite right, dropping allied banes will make new holes. The key here is the footprint of units, such as Zealots and Stalkers. If you have a bunch of Stalkers right-clicked on a Colossus, are there holes to drop on? Well you could put the Zealots on "Hold Position" first and then drop the allied banelings; this way the zealots won't move. Then, once all the holes are filled, use enemy baneling drops to test. | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
Non PTR, 24 zealots packed together cause banelings to drop on the outside of them. So no change there. Adding in stalkers or other fat units to the mix usually causes gaps to form (even when you try to blink into the gaps). So the change will not affect many normal games that I've ever seen. Like no affect after the bug fix. Soooo.... baneling drops act about the same unless you have about 40-75 zealots (80-150 supply worth) packed tightly together on hold position. And one gap (a sentry that died from fungal for instance) in the ball will allow banelings to land there anyway. Colossi count as air units for this packing rule (i.e. they don't fill in gaps). The only time this will have a noticeable affect is when: a. Protoss is only using one ground unit type (or same sized units, like all stalkers + sentries maybe?). EDIT: Sentries aren't the same size as Stalkers, scratch that. b. He packs them all togther. c. He holds position (or something causes this affect to be simulated). d. He doesn't have enough anti-air to kill the overlords anyway. I'm struggling to find the actual measurable nerf. What is all the complaining about? | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10382 Posts
Back then, like the bug fix note says, you could unload banelings onto a deathball directly when you issue it in the fog (better than when you do it without the fog trick). But it seems now, when you have vision and unload, it is also changed/affected. I'm wondering if this is a separate change (that is not noted, aka Ninja fix) or if this is an error from Blizzard trying to fix the fog bug. | ||
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Silent331
United States356 Posts
This is like saying zerglings are cost effective vs marines, they are in super small number but 10+marines zerglings of any number melt. The protoss ball will ALWAYS have gaps because of the motion of units, stalkers make large gaps as it is in real games because they are moving to get to the front. Please try this during a fight on the PTR instead of a theoretical scenario on super packed zealots. | ||
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PPTouch
99 Posts
zvp is relatively balanced as is | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On September 13 2011 06:03 Blacklizard wrote: From my tests: Non PTR, 24 zealots packed together cause banelings to drop on the outside of them. So no change there. Adding in stalkers or other fat units to the mix usually causes gaps to form (even when you try to blink into the gaps). So the change will not affect many normal games that I've ever seen. Like no affect after the bug fix. Soooo.... baneling drops act about the same unless you have about 40-75 zealots (80-150 supply worth) packed tightly together on hold position. And one gap (a sentry that died from fungal for instance) in the ball will allow banelings to land there anyway. Colossi count as air units for this packing rule (i.e. they don't fill in gaps). The only time this will have a noticeable affect is when: a. Protoss is only using one ground unit type. b. He packs them all togther. c. He holds position (or something causes this affect to be simulated). d. He doesn't have enough anti-air to kill the overlords anyway. I'm struggling to find the actual measurable nerf. What is all the complaining about? Having reviewed Blacklizard's statements and the information others have provided, I'm inclined to agree. I retract any statements I made which implied that this would actually be a nerf... it sounds like realistically this won't have an impact on protoss deathball. | ||
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