EPTI wonder if it'll continue or not, but I would not be surprised if the next month graph shows a nice rising bar for the protoss.
[Aug] TLPD Race Winrate Graphs - Page 2
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
MrCon
France29748 Posts
I wonder if it'll continue or not, but I would not be surprised if the next month graph shows a nice rising bar for the protoss. | ||
|
RealQ
1120 Posts
| ||
|
SwampZero
Greece350 Posts
| ||
|
gladsheim
Australia676 Posts
| ||
Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On September 05 2011 19:35 MrCon wrote: The next month graph should be interesting. This weekend we saw a trend of new protoss builds, a lot of protoss qualified in code A, and even in the TLOpen this was the case (so a global trend). I wonder if it'll continue or not, but I would not be surprised if the next month graph shows a nice rising bar for the protoss. Not sure if the Code A quals mean anything - there were only a few Terrans anyone had heard of, frankly. I guess all the decent Terrans are already in GSL  Several of the best ones knocked each other out too, Hack, Sculp, Rainbow, theStC, all out to TvTs.As for new builds...they've been getting tried certainly, but where is the success of them? TLOpen had like 4 Code B Koreans... Korea graphs with 800~ games played ARE kinda meaningless. And it shows, too much variation The sample is certainly unsatisfactory, but unfortunately it's all we've got for the highest level of play, and trends there do tend to filter through to international. | ||
|
SwampZero
Greece350 Posts
| ||
|
Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On September 05 2011 19:37 SwampZero wrote: Korea graphs with 800~ games played ARE kinda meaningless. And it shows, too much variation They're meaningful if the results are lopsided enough. The Korean graph showing a 55% winrate for Terran in TvP can mean any amount of things, but a 70% winrate would strongly suggest a problem even with the small sample size. | ||
|
SwampZero
Greece350 Posts
On September 05 2011 19:48 Toadvine wrote: They're meaningful if the results are lopsided enough. The Korean graph showing a 55% winrate for Terran in TvP can mean any amount of things, but a 70% winrate would strongly suggest a problem even with the small sample size. yeah but you see like 4 upsets in months that weren't even patch months in the PvZ korean subgraph. That p. much means that the sample size is small. | ||
|
ToInfinity
Netherlands61 Posts
On September 05 2011 19:37 SwampZero wrote: Korea graphs with 800~ games played ARE kinda meaningless. And it shows, too much variation it shows a pretty clear terran pattern though  | ||
|
JonnyLaw
United States3482 Posts
On September 05 2011 19:35 Yaotzin wrote: The problem is that they're a little imbalanced in the same way they've been forever - ie Zerg and Protoss getting shafted, Zerg less so since all the buffs they got. Some imbalance each month is to be expected with a shifting metagame; the problem is that the "baseline" has been off for so long. The fact that Zerg has NEVER had even 50% winrate against Terran is absolutely ridiculous. The foreign one looks about as expected. I feel like many players and viewers are seeing terran domination, and even when it's 52% win rate, they feel slighted. Terran has never been below 50% overall w/l. There are many good terran players both in the foreign and especially the Korean community. Combine this with terran's early game ability to deny scouting and repair bunker safety and suddenly you have a race which wins over 50%. | ||
|
MrCon
France29748 Posts
On September 05 2011 19:43 Yaotzin wrote: Not sure if the Code A quals mean anything - there were only a few Terrans anyone had heard of, frankly. I guess all the decent Terrans are already in GSL Several of the best ones knocked each other out too, Hack, Sculp, Rainbow, theStC, all out to TvTs.As for new builds...they've been getting tried certainly, but where is the success of them? TLOpen had like 4 Code B Koreans... The sample is certainly unsatisfactory, but unfortunately it's all we've got for the highest level of play, and trends there do tend to filter through to international. Bleh, I started an answer but your post is so distressing TT So if I understood correctly, terran are dominating, but all terrans are in GSL already so code A results mean nothing. But if those unknown terrans would have qualified, I imagine what kind of posts you would type right now... A lot of new builds have been used, vT or vZ with great success this weekend, but you say "As for new builds...they've been getting tried certainly, but where is the success of them?" which doesn't makes any sense as they have been used to great success in all of last weekend tournaments. 3P5Z top 8 TLopen, 5Z5P2T code A qualifiers, isn't that a success ? I think you fell too far in the I'm not saying this is definitive, but what I saw this weekend could very well continue, I've seen more new, successful protoss builds in 2 days than in 3 months. | ||
|
prOxi.FighT
Australia114 Posts
On September 05 2011 19:52 JonnyLaw wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 05 2011 19:35 Yaotzin wrote: The problem is that they're a little imbalanced in the same way they've been forever - ie Zerg and Protoss getting shafted, Zerg less so since all the buffs they got. Some imbalance each month is to be expected with a shifting metagame; the problem is that the "baseline" has been off for so long. The fact that Zerg has NEVER had even 50% winrate against Terran is absolutely ridiculous. The foreign one looks about as expected. I feel like many players and viewers are seeing terran domination, and even when it's 52% win rate, they feel slighted. Terran has never been below 50% overall w/l. There are many good terran players both in the foreign and especially the Korean community. Combine this with terran's early game ability to deny scouting and repair bunker safety and suddenly you have a race which wins over 50%. You might want to look at the abilities that terran DIDN'T have in brood war, bro. | ||
|
KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
| ||
|
spacemonkeyy
Australia477 Posts
| ||
|
SwampZero
Greece350 Posts
On September 05 2011 20:04 spacemonkeyy wrote: Yet according to Idra- protoss still OP. Fucking LOL. Protoss do have some insanely OP abilities, but are nerfed overally to balance them out. Sentry Force Field is such a hard ability, it should not even exist. | ||
|
Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On September 05 2011 19:59 MrCon wrote: So if I understood correctly, terran are dominating, but all terrans are in GSL already so code A results mean nothing. But if those unknown terrans would have qualified, I imagine what kind of posts you would type right now... Firstly, I said maybe, and listed some mitigating factors to the Code A qual results. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted with them. Will be a far more entertaining Code A for me. My point was, if Terran is indeed too strong, then what has happened in GSL is roughly what you would expect to happen. All the decent Terrans would qualify first, then when their numbers run out the decent Z/P fill in the remaining places. If GSL develops into Code S = Terran, Code A = P/Z, then this would confirm that this is what is happening. And, sadly, this is what appears to be happening. If the unknown Terrans qualified..well..that would be just evidence that the problem is worse than it appears, obviously. If top 10 Protoss/Zerg players can't even get in Code A...thankfully this didn't happen. A lot of new builds have been used, vT or vZ with great success this weekend, but you say "As for new builds...they've been getting tried certainly, but where is the success of them?" which doesn't makes any sense as they have been used to great success in all of last weekend tournaments. 3P5Z top 8 TLopen, 5Z5P2T code A qualifiers, isn't that a success ? I wasn't disagreeing, sorry that wasn't clear - I missed many of the actual games sadly, so I didn't see these styles working. Whenever I see new stuff like zealot/archon PvZ is fails pretty miserably. I'll be delighted if the new styles are actually working against top notch players! I think you fell too far in the I'm not saying this is definitive, but what I saw this weekend could very well continue, I've seen more new, successful protoss builds in 2 days than in 3 months. Well I'm not saying it's hopelessly broken or anything, but I have no idea how anyone can claim that Zerg and Protoss haven't been given the short stick in SC2 since release. The data is pretty conclusive on that... I really hope I'm wrong and this is a sign of an upswing, but well, history suggests it isn't :/ | ||
|
Truedot
444 Posts
On September 05 2011 19:20 SwampZero wrote: Never once in the history of Starcraft II were zerg winning more than terran in TvZ ... Yeah, and if you look at the graph, all the increase winrate signifies is the time when mass infestor and ling/bling/muta started getting used. Its also bad for protoss too, even for all their deathball goodness. People starting to attrition war them more often I suppose. | ||
|
Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
I feel like the new protosses that are doing pretty good in Code A prelimineries now are gonna explode once the game get's more balanced. I feel like player like Sage will hit Code S and easily own people he might be so better than now but struggling to beat, for example in vT and vP. But that's just my philosophy. | ||
|
Truedot
444 Posts
oh good, a 68% win rate for a whole month for T on that graph. totally balanced. | ||
|
Truedot
444 Posts
On September 05 2011 19:32 Zeon0 wrote: Korean also means even less, cause of the small sample size. A single player can mess up the whole graph, if he has a good run. because all of 5 people play in korea? | ||
| ||
