On September 28 2011 05:11 pPingu wrote: Why doesn't blizzard simply ask to like 15 korean players (5z/5t/5p obviously) what they think is imbalanced, then they check it and if they come to the conclusion that is is imba they patch it instead of doing what they think is imba?
I think if anyone knows what the problem in the game is it's korean progamers.
Even if someone is rly good, doesn't mean he is not biased.
True, but I'd still take that over the current balance "team" (The entire team is David Kim reporting to Dustin Browder).
Nothing personal against David Kim, but seriously, you can't entrust balance to 1 guy without having a distorted outcome.
Why couldn't there be a panel for determining balance?
It's not just one person.
Believe it or not... It actually is!
Dustin Browder said it himself in an interview.
edit: Nominally, it's also got Matt Cooper, but the interview I watched (I can't pinpoint it, it's a needle in a haystack) stated that it was just David Kim, reporting to Dustin Browder.
edit #2: Don't quote me on this, but as far as I can tell, David Kim is the only one above diamond.
......
This sounds too silly to be true. You have a source?
The amount of games being used in this survey is a very small sample size. I understand why, but it is a small sample size. Whether that means one race is more or less OP or more or less OP is unknown, but 200 games isn't much of a sample for an entire month.
On September 28 2011 05:11 pPingu wrote: Why doesn't blizzard simply ask to like 15 korean players (5z/5t/5p obviously) what they think is imbalanced, then they check it and if they come to the conclusion that is is imba they patch it instead of doing what they think is imba?
I think if anyone knows what the problem in the game is it's korean progamers.
Even if someone is rly good, doesn't mean he is not biased.
True, but I'd still take that over the current balance "team" (The entire team is David Kim reporting to Dustin Browder).
Nothing personal against David Kim, but seriously, you can't entrust balance to 1 guy without having a distorted outcome.
Why couldn't there be a panel for determining balance?
It's not just one person.
Believe it or not... It actually is!
Dustin Browder said it himself in an interview.
edit: Nominally, it's also got Matt Cooper, but the interview I watched (I can't pinpoint it, it's a needle in a haystack) stated that it was just David Kim, reporting to Dustin Browder.
edit #2: Don't quote me on this, but as far as I can tell, David Kim is the only one above diamond.
......
This sounds too silly to be true. You have a source?
There's not one authoritative source which spells it out, but it's definitely been said in interviews. I can't seem to find a source though, sorry.
I'll continue looking, and let you know if I find one.
On September 28 2011 05:11 pPingu wrote: Why doesn't blizzard simply ask to like 15 korean players (5z/5t/5p obviously) what they think is imbalanced, then they check it and if they come to the conclusion that is is imba they patch it instead of doing what they think is imba?
I think if anyone knows what the problem in the game is it's korean progamers.
Even if someone is rly good, doesn't mean he is not biased.
True, but I'd still take that over the current balance "team" (The entire team is David Kim reporting to Dustin Browder).
Nothing personal against David Kim, but seriously, you can't entrust balance to 1 guy without having a distorted outcome.
Why couldn't there be a panel for determining balance?
It's not just one person.
Believe it or not... It actually is!
Dustin Browder said it himself in an interview.
edit: Nominally, it's also got Matt Cooper, but the interview I watched (I can't pinpoint it, it's a needle in a haystack) stated that it was just David Kim, reporting to Dustin Browder.
edit #2: Don't quote me on this, but as far as I can tell, David Kim is the only one above diamond.
......
This sounds too silly to be true. You have a source?
There's not one authoritative source which spells it out, but it's definitely been said in interviews. I can't seem to find a source though, sorry.
I'll continue looking, and let you know if I find one.
well there are probably multiple guys working on it, because there's a tone of feedback and i guess someone needs to go trough those too, even if they completly ignore 99% of it. But yes, David Kim is the only one who is any good at this game, that's 100% sure, and there s a good chance that he s the one making almost all the decisions (together with Dustin probably)
On September 22 2011 06:12 arsenic wrote: It's always been weird to me too that all the changes (nerfs mostly) historically have been hitting Zerg/Protoss while Terran escapes relatively unscathed (bunker change lol) patch after patch when it's so clear that Terran is the best race or in Blizzard's own words "the race with the most options". They really need to curb Terran though and hopefully soon. =/
Also, Protoss win rates are much higher than expected. Given the QQ lately, you'd think it would be much lower... but alas, TvP is the most imbalanced matchup of all.
- the ghost cost changed to 200/100 (this is a nerf, because gas is no problem for terran, minerals are)
what???? Since when is minerals a problem for Terran? thats the dumbest thing i heard today.
Lol exactly! Last time i checked Terran has this thing called MULE that collects minerals?
Anyways, I think that once HotS comes out, all these statistics wont mean much, because the new units and units removed will change everything, and who knows maybe some other race might take over as the top dog.
Of course minerals are a problem for Terran. They have to mass marines AND build hellions to kill all of your workers. With all of those strong units costing minerals only that barely leaves any for poor Terran players to build ghosts...
/sarcasm
I KNOW! Poor babies, they have to make so many T1 units in TvP and the only thing that they're allowed to spend gas on are medivacs.
Well, I know what the solution is. Marines cost 50 gas instead of 50 minerals. That way he can make more ghosts!
Yes exactly.
Marine/Marauder/Medivac/Viking/Ghost is all Tier 1. You are so right -_-
On September 22 2011 06:18 SniXSniPe wrote: Your logic doesn't take into consideration that maybe Terran has the best players/most talented players playing that race (not saying it does, just giving an example). Imagine, SC2 with 5 Players playing as good as Flash and only 1 Zerg playing at the level of Jaedong.
This is honestly something a lot of people don't think about. There are obviously limits to how skewed a race can be, but you can't expect equal numbers. If this game is supposed to be about the best players winning, it's almost impossible that the best players are going to be evenly distributed among all three races. It's far more likely that one or two races are going to be skewed, otherwise it's admitting this game doesn't take skill and is a matter of making each matchup a 50/50 coinflip.
The same thing can be said about GSL race distribution being skewed. Starcraft isn't supposed to be reaching quotas, it's having the best players win.
This, the end.
On September 22 2011 06:37 freetgy wrote:
On September 22 2011 06:31 SolidMoose wrote: This is honestly something a lot of people don't think about. There are obviously limits to how skewed a race can be, but you can't expect equal numbers. If this game is supposed to be about the best players winning, it's almost impossible that the best players are going to be evenly distributed among all three races. It's far more likely that one or two races are going to be skewed, otherwise it's admitting this game doesn't take skill and is a matter of making each matchup a 50/50 coinflip.
The same thing can be said about GSL race distribution being skewed. Starcraft isn't supposed to be reaching quotas, it's having the best players win.
this argument is scewed because you will never be able to decide whether it was imbalance or the players skill that made the difference.
Using this argument is nonsense, but what we clearly see is that Terran has "complete" design while Zerg and Protoss do not.
Which is one form of imbalance. Would you call a game balanced in the future if everyone was playing terran in the end? obviously not.
If you would recommend someone who want to become pro which race he should play? This would obviously be Terran, if the game was balanced, there shouldn't be a race to recommend.
Bullshit. The only thing we "clearly" can see is that Terrans are winning more.
Whether that's because they got the best players, are imbalanced, more complete is anyones guess. Yours is as crap as anyone elses.
As far as recommending someone who want to become pro which race he should play? Are you for real? There are enough protoss and zerg champions all over the place to make that an impossible choice.
On September 22 2011 06:37 freetgy wrote: Using this argument is nonsense, but what we clearly see is that Terran has "complete" design while Zerg and Protoss do not.
On September 28 2011 05:54 Dalavita wrote: Bullshit. The only thing we "clearly" can see is that Terrans are winning more.
Whether that's because they got the best players, are imbalanced, more complete is anyones guess. Yours is as crap as anyone elses.
Dalavita... You might want to tell Dustin Browder (Design Lead for SC2) that.
"DB: ...Not all races will be given equal treatment; the Terrans are really, really good and it's really hard to do more with them. While the other races currently have an equal opportunity to beat them (except for Korean Grandmasters), Terrans are still more flexible and we don't want to add that." http://www.gamespot.com/news/6325853/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm-qanda-with-dustin-browder
On September 22 2011 06:37 freetgy wrote: Would you call a game balanced in the future if everyone was playing terran in the end? obviously not. If you would recommend someone who want to become pro which race he should play? This would obviously be Terran, if the game was balanced, there shouldn't be a race to recommend
On September 28 2011 05:54 Dalavita wrote: As far as recommending someone who want to become pro which race he should play? Are you for real? There are enough protoss and zerg champions all over the place to make that an impossible choice.
Dalavita... You might want to tell Polt (GSL Winner & Terran) that.
The level of denial we're witnessing here is really a case study in Human honesty and integrity. So what are Terran fanboys going to say now? That Game Spot held a fake interview and the GSL translator is anti-Terran and mis-quoted Polt? Or something more subtle like "The imbalances aren't really that bad..."! I just hope the tables are turned one day, we'll see what you say then.
On September 08 2011 04:33 xbankx wrote: Personally, I think people are too focused on PvT. Protoss is having a lot of troubles with terrans due to 1/1/1 and end game mass ghosts. But what people realize is the PvZ is more of a problem. The only reason why people haven't said anything is due to the dominance of terran overall.
People might think Im Bsing, but just look at the data.
PvZ for this GSL (code A and Code S): 28% 4 wins-10 losses PvT for this GSL (code A and Code S): 34% 15 wins 29 losses
People can interpet this data however they want but remember all the top zerg players (Losaira and Nestea) actually got knocked out by terrans very early in the tourny.
Remember this is not a balance whine. Im sure blizzard are looking into the 1/1/1 as its win rate is super high for an all in, but I think protoss players needs to focus on PvZ as it is the entirety of the matchup hard to focus on.
Okay, let's look at those 10 Protoss losses.
4 of them were foreigners losing to Koreans. That was just bracket luck; if they had faced Terrans or Protoss they would have lost.
2 of them come from DRG owning Inca. Inca sucks.
1 of them is DRG beating JYP, but DRG lost that series.
The remainder of them all come from July, beating Hongun and Genius.
Look at those games, and tell me with a straight face and tell me they mean anything. Ever heard of a small sample size? Every single Z beat a P who he was massively superior to.
And Blizzard do asks pro player what they think about the game balance if I recall correctly (wtf am I doing answering to guys that posted nearly 2 months ago)
EPT
