Why 1/1/1 is considered to be imbalanced in Korea - Page 7

On August 22 2011 06:33 MeanMike wrote:

100% win rate in gsl

im sure it's higher than 90% but im being generous

On August 22 2011 06:33 Fission wrote:


I have many replays of defending 3gate sg against masters and gm level players. It's a fairly easy build to scout.

On August 22 2011 06:33 illsick wrote:


well, I think this topic is about the 1-1-1 build. Marauders are usually not in that mix; that build consists of tanks, banshees, raven and marines mostly. So you probably played against a different build?

On August 22 2011 06:17 samd wrote:
Excuse my ignorance, but how is this any difference from the Terran version of a 4gate? You protoss used to pull a strong timing build all the time, now you're getting the taste of one and the tears start flowing?

On August 22 2011 06:34 TERRANLOL wrote:


That's actually wrong. Thorzain lost to Genius in the GSTL.
I know you'll probably back up and say you meant the GSL and not the GSTL but I see no reason for making that distinction.

On August 22 2011 06:03 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Something like this was a possibility ever since so many protoss players began to rely on 15nexus and 1gate expand. I've never understood the economic necessity of expanding so soon. 1gate robo and 1gate star (for phoenix) builds can yield economically sound mid games without sacrificing early game information. I don't think there is such an economic necessity. I think protoss players saw that they could get away with really early expansions and so they did it. Now it's back to being a coinflip like it ought to be. Rushing to gather information remains the most reliable way to get to mid game on even ground or to win outright against opponents not intending to enter mid game. Of course, this requires perfect use of the information, so it is a more difficult way to play until all the necessary knowledge has been discovered, at which point it makes all the things it counters absolutely obsolete. I imagine 1-1-1 is one such thing.

That's actually wrong. Thorzain lost to Genius in the GSTL.
I know you'll probably back up and say you meant the GSL and not the GSTL but I see no reason for making that distinction.

On August 22 2011 06:34 Medrea wrote:


That was with stim iirc. And thats why they nerfed stim. 2 rax is still strong, and it can kill your anti 1-1-1.

On August 22 2011 06:31 TERRANLOL wrote:


I do believe the terran still has an advantage, however, I do believe in getting everything right conceptually in order to make a argument.
1. Terran is using SCVs to make buildings. Subtract those from the count. It's one at a time for supply depots. One or two more for the other buildings.
2. Protoss can chronoboost out workers. I'm assuming they will have, until they suspect this build is coming. I'd give protoss another 1-2 workers on terran.
3. In order to build the orbital and have those mules, the terran has to sacrifice some of his SCV production. It takes 2 SCV build times to build an orbital command, but it also costs 150 minerals.
So I'd say the Protoss is roughly 5-7 probes ahead in terms of mining rate BEFORE mules.

On August 22 2011 06:28 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
I hit this all the time on China and I do a 3 gate pressure into expo and it rolls it a lot. I don't drop the nexus until after 2-3 full waves of warp ins. I tend to find that the Terran lack the proper marine/maruader count to deal with that many zealots/stalkers.

Am I just playing bad players?` (Legit asking here, pretty curious of the answer).

On August 22 2011 06:28 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
I hit this all the time on China and I do a 3 gate pressure into expo and it rolls it a lot. I don't drop the nexus until after 2-3 full waves of warp ins. I tend to find that the Terran lack the proper marine/maruader count to deal with that many zealots/stalkers.

Am I just playing bad players?` (Legit asking here, pretty curious of the answer).

On August 22 2011 06:36 DooMDash wrote:

That is not why they nerfed stim. They nerfed stim for TvP ramp run ups. And all those Z's having problems were dead before stim, most of the time the Terrans never even got gas. It happened for easily a month. Just saying this is not much different. Time will tell.

On August 22 2011 06:30 DooMDash wrote:



They also lost to 2 rax all ins like every game for 1 month straight, with nothing changed its no longer a problem. Crazy I know right ?

On August 22 2011 06:18 Razuik wrote:

I completely agree with this. There is no need to take such a huge economic risk as protoss. Artosis constantly explains how great safe builds like 2gate-robo are. I have not seen a 2gate-robo in GSL for a very long time. The metagame in TvP is FE protoss atm.. Terran is simply abusing that fact. In my opinion, Protoss players just need to develop more safe builds in the matchup. If Blizzard chooses to nerf the 1-1-1 allins, they are truly balancing with the metagame. Balancing with the metagame is the completely WRONG way to balance the game.

I think the general confusion in trying to hold this build is that people think they have to expand before a certain gateway count. If you scout a 1-1-1 allin when you're going 1-gate robo, I'm quite certain you can just add 2 more gates and delay your expansion for a while. At least in my experience, 3-gate robo can destroy this allin.

On August 22 2011 06:37 Medrea wrote:


Then it was steppes of war nonsense and all that. And what does it matter what stim is used for? 2 rax with way earlier stim timing was OP so they nerfed it.