Why 1/1/1 is considered to be imbalanced in Korea - Page 15

On August 22 2011 07:15 Medrea wrote:


Gah too extreme. My idea was to tone down the damage of banshees and make there current damage only extend to light units. And thats IT. No more.

On August 22 2011 07:09 blooblooblahblah wrote:


In tht particular game, Select went gas so he couldn't punish the Nexus first (like the other two games where he demolished SangHo). Nexus first is good against 1-1-1 and SangHo was able to delay the push so much tht his economy was just too good. I believe there is a blink expand which can get u 1 storm in time for the 1-1-1 so tht may be a possibility. But going Nexus first every time has obvious flaws.

On August 22 2011 07:15 LicH. wrote:


But wait, i've always heard the exact opposite from your kind, that a 1-1-1 comes "too late because he got a raven, and thats why he failed."

On August 22 2011 07:14 Heavenly wrote:


Lmao wtf? What kind of fallacious argument is that? That was months ago before anyone ever refined the build. Yes I do know better than MarineKing did back then, and now MarineKing knows significantly better than he did. Do what I said, look at the build and timing compared to current 1-1-1's, and you'll see why his build got so roflstomped.

On August 22 2011 07:16 Cosmos wrote:
I really find 1-1-1 very easy to counter, as long as you went for a 15 nexus, 1gate expand, 1gate robo or 1 gate stargate.

If, with a 1gate expand you face an allin with bio and scv, you just have to go back your ramp, wait for colossi and push the terran. Sacrifying your nexus won't put you behind, don't worry!

I don't understand why koreans have problem with it but I think that this is because of the very standard 3gate expand build in korea which is a very weak build against a 1-1-1 allin.

On August 22 2011 07:14 Razuik wrote:

Just from experience. Of course, nothing is so certain without a high level example. Since I haven't really seen any 2-gate robo builds at the highest level, we can just go back and fourth with no evidence. Which would be pointless.

On August 22 2011 06:52 Liquid`Tyler wrote:

I say these openings "yield economically sound mid games" and you say that they "put you astronomically behind". What's the point? What's the point of simply contradicting my assessment of the strength of a robo or star opening's economy?

By the way, I'm pretty sure that lack of practice is the thing holding me back, not build orders. If anything, you should take a careful and respectful look at how I approach the game because I'm able to hang with pros despite playing maybe a tenth or a fifth of the amount they do. Hell, if you don't count games played to get back in shape as practice, then I practice even less than a tenth. As for Artosis, I hate to say it but the guy has a really hard time getting good enough mechanics to do his knowledge and understanding justice. Artosis and I are two of the very few people that, for objective reasons, ought to be listened to despite not being the current best players in the world. I'm sure there are many others but we have the public history. But you can just leave it. You don't have to give my posts any more notice than any other poster here if you don't want to. However, making a misinformed argument to especially ignore my posts is not cool.

On August 22 2011 07:16 Cosmos wrote:
I really find 1-1-1 very easy to counter, as long as you went for a 15 nexus, 1gate expand, 1gate robo or 1 gate stargate.

If, with a 1gate expand you face an allin with bio and scv, you just have to go back your ramp, wait for colossi and push the terran. Sacrifying your nexus won't put you behind, don't worry!

I don't understand why koreans have problem with it but I think that this is because of the very standard 3gate expand build in korea which is a very weak build against a 1-1-1 allin.

I really find 1-1-1 very easy to counter, as long as you went for a 15 nexus, 1gate expand, 1gate robo or 1 gate stargate.

If, with a 1gate expand you face an allin with bio and scv, you just have to go back your ramp, wait for colossi and push the terran. Sacrifying your nexus won't put you behind, don't worry!

On August 22 2011 07:14 Huntz wrote:
TBH i think the easiest fix would be to remove the banshee. obviously that's not going to happen but i don't think something like 40 hp marine with combat shields giving +15 would really fix it. worth a shot though, for sure.

On August 22 2011 07:17 Tachion wrote:

That kinda screws up banshees in TvZ because then 1 queen will beat 1 banshee.

That kinda screws up banshees in TvZ because then 1 queen will beat 1 banshee.

On August 22 2011 07:13 Chvol wrote:


This was a particularly fast 1/1/1, with no raven. Otherwise all of those stalkers would have been far less useful. Plus, protoss went gate, nexus, gate, robo with no idea what build terran had coming.

On August 22 2011 07:19 paradox_ wrote:
When some of the best korean terrans in the world are saying its a little broken, why are people arguing so blindly. These are people who practice this stuff day in and out. This isn't some gold-low master level theorycrafting. The game has been out a lot longer than when 4gate was considered OP (which was nerfed anyways). There is a general consensus among those that practice 10-12 hours a day that 1-1-1 isn't right.

MC is considered to be one of the best toss (even if you disagree he comes in anyone's top 3-5 list) while someone like Puma wouldn't be considered the same league (from results). No doubt Puma is good and has potential but if some toss in Code B started destroyed MVP or NesTea 3-0 the way Puma did to MC today, there would be the same kind of crying going on if not worse.

There has been builds that were anti toss throughout the last 1 year but I don't think any of them made toss feel this helpless. Even during roach/ling allins, a lot of toss would say its holdable even though its very difficult. The solutions were there even at the peak of strength of roach/ling all-ins. The same has held true for all other builds. 4gate vs zerg etc. These builds also have the weakness of being screwed if it gets held off. No other build in the game for any race allows you to pull that many scvs and still be able to make a second or third push that strong. And even if it doesn't break the toss, if it denies the expo (by killing or cancelling whatever) long enough the terran can maintain the pushes indefinitely by simply flying their CC to expo. The only way the toss can put a stop to the build is to beat it super convincingly. Holding it off isn't enough. And as the OP linked, lack of information is an issue. If toss' had the option of throwing away 100-200 minerals to be able to scout the all-in coming at a reasonable time, they would. (e.g scan, saccing OL)

On August 22 2011 07:17 Tachion wrote:

That kinda screws up banshees in TvZ because then 1 queen will beat 1 banshee.

On August 22 2011 07:07 Razuik wrote:

I'm quite certain that 3-gate robo wrecks the 1-1-1 allin unless you engage in a TERRIBLE position or let him bunker up (which there is no reason you should let him).

On August 22 2011 07:18 JackDanger wrote:


I would pose as evidence that this build has existed in some form since beta (though only in the forefront the last few months I suppose) and no viable counter, even blindly, has been successful. I would also say that 2-gate robo is/was a fairly standard build, and since it sounds good in theory, probably would have been one of the first responses attempted.

On August 22 2011 07:21 iamke55 wrote:

I'm confused how this could possibly screw up TvZ. Does zerg have some all-in with 1 queen that is impossible to stop unless terran hits an exact timing to get 1 banshee out in time to defend it?