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On August 19 2011 04:08 Kalent wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 02:30 aksfjh wrote:On August 19 2011 00:38 Demonace34 wrote:
The only problem I have with his thought on Skill is about Micromanagement. The spells that freeze and stop micro management make the game less enjoyable to watch. Fungal forcefield and concussive all make micro for the other person almost non-existent. Thanks for posting this though, lots of good stuff about game design in here. You kidding me? Those forcefields, fungals, and getting caught in concussive shells is what can make the early game exciting. Those things make every second of the game important. Get out of position slightly? BAM! That's the end of that force and possibly the game changing event. I have to disagree. IMO, spells make the early game less exciting, esp. the micro battles. In bw, early game without spells made it extremely exciting to watch as the way the players used individual units was amazing. Early game micro was so precise and intense, whereas in SC2, the spells reduced that effect a bit. Esp. concussive shells as they just infinitely kite everything without much effort.
While I agree, you also have to remember individual unit's aren't even close of 1:1 to broodwar in terms of value, everything is just smaller and dies quicker, which takes a lot of emphasis off micro passed the 5 minutes mark unfortunately.
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On August 19 2011 03:23 Nagano wrote:
Watched the whole thing. What was surprising was how Blizzard brought in a guy (Browder) who actually knew nothing of BW's esport history to lead the design of its successor.
Maybe they just wanted the perspective from an outsider of e-sports and someone who knows how to appeal to the more casual players while the rest of the team or atleast most of it come from an e-sport background and can educate him on it.
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Overall pretty good presentation.
"Wraith, not for esport" Makes me sad though 
2 port wraith was possibly the most skillful and fun to watch build in BW.
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On August 19 2011 04:40 taLbuk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 04:08 Kalent wrote:On August 19 2011 02:30 aksfjh wrote:On August 19 2011 00:38 Demonace34 wrote:
The only problem I have with his thought on Skill is about Micromanagement. The spells that freeze and stop micro management make the game less enjoyable to watch. Fungal forcefield and concussive all make micro for the other person almost non-existent. Thanks for posting this though, lots of good stuff about game design in here. You kidding me? Those forcefields, fungals, and getting caught in concussive shells is what can make the early game exciting. Those things make every second of the game important. Get out of position slightly? BAM! That's the end of that force and possibly the game changing event. I have to disagree. IMO, spells make the early game less exciting, esp. the micro battles. In bw, early game without spells made it extremely exciting to watch as the way the players used individual units was amazing. Early game micro was so precise and intense, whereas in SC2, the spells reduced that effect a bit. Esp. concussive shells as they just infinitely kite everything without much effort. While I agree, you also have to remember individual unit's aren't even close of 1:1 to broodwar in terms of value, everything is just smaller and dies quicker, which takes a lot of emphasis off micro passed the 5 minutes mark unfortunately.
That's what I personally don't understand about SC2.. They made micro less important than broodwar, and they made macro easier.. Due to this, most games are much more heavily effected by BO choices.. When did SC become a game of luck?
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On August 19 2011 02:30 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 00:38 Demonace34 wrote:
The only problem I have with his thought on Skill is about Micromanagement. The spells that freeze and stop micro management make the game less enjoyable to watch. Fungal forcefield and concussive all make micro for the other person almost non-existent. Thanks for posting this though, lots of good stuff about game design in here. You kidding me? Those forcefields, fungals, and getting caught in concussive shells is what can make the early game exciting. Those things make every second of the game important. Get out of position slightly? BAM! That's the end of that force and possibly the game changing event.
Go watch some of Tyler's Dragoon micro in his courage video early game v T. Getting caught by FF or concussive shells that early in SCII game and no amount of micro can get you out of that. The snowball effect is just too great for a 50/50 upgrade that early in my opinion.
I guess I'm just one of those people that want to play BW with better pathing and better graphics. Instead of complaining I guess I should just get used to it though.
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This is cool as hell. Dustin is such a funny guy
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Man, Dustin Browder is fucking cool. (riiiiight?)
Makes me feel cool myself for playing that game and following the pro scene. SC2 is good stuff.
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really cool. I hope blizzard is making a new MMO based on ESPORTS!
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It still baffles me that they brought him in. He apparently still thinks that Koreans are weird for liking Starcraft. First of all it's kinda racist how he talks about them and has he never heard of Counterstrike? Or Quake? Or Street Fighter? Or Warcraft 3? Esports isn't just big in Korea. We have professional players outside of Korea for more than a decade. I think this ignorance of the proscene, i.e. the dedication some people have and the effort some people are willing to put into competitive gaming is the root of some of the problems SC2 has, in my opinion. Maybe they just didn't realize/anticipate how professional players would abuse certain units/timings etc., or how well they would multitask, manage their economy and so on. And since when is micromanagement a dirty word in the RTS scene? I've never heard of that one.
Anyways, it's still very insightful even though I disagree with him on multiple issues. After all, he's the game designer and I'm just the (casual) player. Thanks for the link OP.
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suchts a awsome press!!, when did this took place?
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Thanks for posting this, it looks like a real treat
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Terrible terrible awesome talk, thanks for posting
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I dont know anything about programmar/game design etc, but that was awesome to watch, thanks!
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"for ESPORT" is a very funny phrase
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On August 19 2011 06:25 surfinbird1 wrote:
It still baffles me that they brought him in. He apparently still thinks that Koreans are weird for liking Starcraft. First of all it's kinda racist how he talks about them and has he never heard of Counterstrike? Or Quake? Or Street Fighter? Or Warcraft 3? Esports isn't just big in Korea. We have professional players outside of Korea for more than a decade. I think this ignorance of the proscene, i.e. the dedication some people have and the effort some people are willing to put into competitive gaming is the root of some of the problems SC2 has, in my opinion. Maybe they just didn't realize/anticipate how professional players would abuse certain units/timings etc., or how well they would multitask, manage their economy and so on. And since when is micromanagement a dirty word in the RTS scene? I've never heard of that one.
Anyways, it's still very insightful even though I disagree with him on multiple issues. After all, he's the game designer and I'm just the (casual) player. Thanks for the link OP.
Leaving all your other points aside, I found this sentence in particular kinda amusing.
And since when is micromanagement a dirty word in the RTS scene? I've never heard of that one.
I assume you're aware of his background? They didn't just pull some random guy off the street. I'd take his word over yours for what is considered what in the RTS scene.
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On August 19 2011 04:40 unit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 04:36 Treadmill wrote:
Oh man. There's a bit where he talks about the goliath and more or less says that he thinks they maybe should've left in the goliath and not the Thor. Goliath as a multiplayer unit in HotS would make me soooo happy.
Really interesting video too, thanks for the link! idealy it wouldnt have the same ai :3
SC2 didn't really improve upon the pathfinding AI of BW much. Most of what they did was reduce the collision size around units so they can squeeze in together. Units like the thor and ultralisk that have collision sizes larger than the BW dragoon are still dumb as hell.
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So awesome! Really enjoyed this. Dustin is such an interesting person to listen to :D A great public speaker.
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Ok the one burning question I have to know is this (and if anyone here actually knows please tell me) : his logic for leaving in 6 pools is to keep players on the edge of their seats..so then why the hell did they force T to make a depot before rax? Following logic the only deducable answer is certain early proxys were too strong for how quickly they came? But 6 pooling on maps where the protoss scouts last and opens like 12 gate expo or some shit is auto loss?
wtf
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Server not found
Firefox can't find the server at events.digitallyspeaking.com.
I guess it's my internet. Can anyone summarise, please?
Thanks 
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On August 19 2011 07:41 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 04:40 unit wrote:On August 19 2011 04:36 Treadmill wrote:
Oh man. There's a bit where he talks about the goliath and more or less says that he thinks they maybe should've left in the goliath and not the Thor. Goliath as a multiplayer unit in HotS would make me soooo happy.
Really interesting video too, thanks for the link! idealy it wouldnt have the same ai :3 SC2 didn't really improve upon the pathfinding AI of BW much. Most of what they did was reduce the collision size around units so they can squeeze in together. Units like the thor and ultralisk that have collision sizes larger than the BW dragoon are still dumb as hell.
I don't think that's true. I read this thread and it says the pathfinding is a lot different.
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EPT
