EPTMVP's Coach on NASL Korean exit - Page 6
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Seditary
Australia7033 Posts
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brachester
Australia1786 Posts
Milkis comes to save the day | ||
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:27 Itsmedudeman wrote: So you go through a 2 month long tournament, place top 16, and you actually end up losing money. A lot at that too. The tournament just isn't worth the risk vs. reward. It's not just winning one game in the playoffs, it's making it into the top 8 of a 64 player tournament which is very time consuming and uncomfortable the entire way through. NASL has done well trying to do what they can, but the fact of the matter is they still aren't covering a reasonable amount for their finalists. Well this is how it works. All people who make the finals get a travel stipend of $1000. Then, NASL also gave all 16 players a minimum prize of $1000 that they weren't giving before (new this season). Which totals $2000. Yes, if you don't make the finals you don't get any money despite participating in a 2 month tournament. And while I would agree with you that it would be nice, both for fans and players for NASLto have some kind of mid-season prize to make it "worth it"....that's not what the foreigners asked for. They're not asking for compensation because the season is a long time and they want to be paid for playing, they specifically asked for travel and lodging, and they got an offer simply for that. | ||
theBizness
United States696 Posts
On August 17 2011 12:50 ThreeActPlay wrote: "Finally, because I’m answering what NASL should change in order for MVP team to participate, NASL should take better care of the players, including pick up from the airport, accomodations, and scheduling, instead of focusing only on the broadcast. If NASL want the tournament to grow, the players’ convenience should be the first priority in order to create great matches so that the fans will become enthusiastic." Sorry, but this is bunk to me. If you have to be wined and dined to compete, tough. NASL should focus on the production and the broadcast, since that's what the fans care about. As a fan, I care more about the quality of the players and games. | ||
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
That's hardy "saving the day" - I can't take the "Haha." seriously until he actually explains what it means. | ||
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NHY
1013 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:22 whateverpeeps wrote: The worst part is they are lecturing NASL on what the proper way to go about things is, when: 1) They signed contracts, then broke them 2) Started negotiations, but made it impossible to know who to talk to 3) Talk about issues they have with NASL in public while criticizing NASL for going public, even though NASL wasn't directly criticizing anyone and they are 4) And doing the above after NASL clearly expressed that they don't know who made the decision and don't know who to talk to, ad that if anyone has a problem, to message them so they can talk and improve the situation and end on good terms. 5) Made several erroneous claims in this post alone. 1) You can't say the 'broke' the contract without know what it is. 2) NASL knew from the beginning who to talk to. You know the person who talked to them. 3) NASL created a thread in TL. He is doing an interview. 4) Again, NASL knows who to talk to, what the problem is. 5) Name them. | ||
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nufcrulz
Singapore934 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:29 koolaid1990 wrote: god for the last time, this whole "treat us good or we won't come" is logical and doesn't apply to any other tournament because NASL is something you have to devote a A LOT OF fuckin time for. 9 fuckin weeks, play at 4 am, wait 2 hours because your opponent shows up, get 1st in your group, pay $80 to go to the venue, wait more than 5 hours, lose on 2 maps, and your whole 9 weeks spent is WORTHLESS. That was pretty much slayersBoxer, the fuckin emperor. Tell me, after going through that, wouldn't you want some more demands? the thing is, other than the 4am part (which is pretty much unavoidable considering this is the NASL, not the KSL), all the other non korean participants had to go through these as well, but you don't see them complaining and withdrawing from the competition do you? | ||
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captive411
United States80 Posts
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:29 koolaid1990 wrote: god for the last time, this whole "treat us good or we won't come" is logical and doesn't apply to any other tournament because NASL is something you have to devote a A LOT OF fuckin time for. 9 fuckin weeks, play at 4 am, wait 2 hours because your opponent doesn't show up, get 1st in your group, pay $80 to go to the venue, wait more than 5 hours, lose on 2 maps, and your whole 9 weeks spent is WORTHLESS. That was pretty much slayersBoxer, the fuckin emperor. Tell me, after going through that, wouldn't you want some more demands? 9 fucking weeks? You mean, 9 games? You don't have to play at 4 am, at least in Season 2, as that was changed (wonder how many managers are actually aware of that and took the time to ask that or read up on that). And NASL didn't make Boxer lose. Boxer lost because MC played better. Such is life as a pro-gamer...you're not always guaranteed to win. But actually, in Season 2, every player is guaranteed a $1000 prize if they attend (which they can use for travel), AND a $1000 stipend, which is more than enough compensation. Funny that someone who is negotiating for their entire team doesn't seem to even know what the other side is offering. | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:31 FairForever wrote: That's hardy "saving the day" - I can't take the "Haha." seriously until he actually explains what it means. There was a lot of talk about the shuttle service by the Koreans. But let's say, "providing" the service isn't always everything. | ||
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akalarry
United States1978 Posts
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darkest44
United States1009 Posts
Pathetic, foreigners travel across the globe and participate in tournaments which provide much less than NASL (no travel stipend, etc), and you don't see them making laundry lists of demands and withdrawing out of tournaments they already took other people's potential spots in through qualifiers. | ||
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ELA
Denmark4608 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:34 Milkis wrote: There was a lot of talk about the shuttle service by the Koreans. But let's say, "providing" the service isn't always everything. Care to explain what they expect of a shuttle service? Is it not only a question of transport from A to B? | ||
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koolaid1990
831 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:32 nufcrulz wrote: the thing is, other than the 4am part (which is pretty much unavoidable considering this is the NASL, not the KSL), all the other non korean participants had to go through these as well, but you don't see them complaining and withdrawing from the competition do you? I bet even Ret was pissed as hell as he got 1st in his group, got knocked out in less than in hour. I bet many were at least slightly frusterated. And the 4am part isn't just another "other than that 4am thing" Its changing your entire frekin sleep cycle. And Yes it is unavoidable, but NASL didn't do shit when there were no shows. Like when fuckin painuser didn't come and made boxer wait hours. They should have handled this much better. if they couldn't contact painuser, disqualify him after 15 minutes for god sakes. | ||
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Rayansaki
Portugal1266 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:15 Nerski wrote:It's quite clear most of the korean teams didn't fully understand the contracts and terms....complaining about getting up at 4am is kind of a mute point of 'mistreatment' because they knew fully well when the league was taking place. Did the contracts and terms state that they would sometimes have to wait 2 hours for another player? I fully understand their side, they have to pay deposits, which makes them feel like they are treated as potential criminals, and they don't get it back right away. They have to forfeit any sort of sleep schedule in order to play through the massive 2 month qualifying process which does NOT guarantee them a spot. They are also expected to play the remaining games even after they are no longer in a qualifying position or else they get deposit penalties. They have to spend thousands of dollars to play in a tournament with a format that has the potential to eliminate them after just 2 games, and it's on fixed maps so they don't get an advantage in g2 if they lose g1. And this is just my 2cents, but i'd guess the reason they only decided to leave the NASL S2 so late was because they were still in a negotiation process. On August 17 2011 13:15 Nerski wrote: You don't see GSL paying airfair for anyone who wins an MLG, or paying for food, or anything like that do you? You get a Code S pass, which may or may not amount to something....or a Code A pass which is a money sink unless you can make it to code S in 1 month and then place well in code S. The Korean leagues do just as little for the players as NASL. The Korean leagues have no reason to give advantages to foreign players. It's just more code A fodder that gets knocked first round by korean b-teamers. They have no reason to want more than just the 2-3 deserving foreigners that stay and play and attract international audiences. NASL needs the korean players if they want to have the best players in the world competing, otherwise it's just second tier pros playing, and that's why they need to give more and be more flexible than what GSL offers to foreigners. GSL already has the best players, they have no reason to give benefits to second tier pros. | ||
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Inky87
United States533 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:34 Milkis wrote: There was a lot of talk about the shuttle service by the Koreans. But let's say, "providing" the service isn't always everything. That's vague, unhelpful, and doesn't make them look any better. | ||
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Sandro
897 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:37 ELA wrote: Care to explain what they expect of a shuttle service? Is it not only a question of transport from A to B? The Koreans are probably upset that the shuttle service wasnt a limousine with caviar and wine being served on the ride to the venue. | ||
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:31 NHY wrote: 1) You can't say the 'broke' the contract without know what it is. 2) NASL knew from the beginning who to talk to. You know the person who talked to them. 3) NASL created a thread in TL. He is doing an interview. 4) Again, NASL knows who to talk to, what the problem is. 5) Name them. 1) They signed saying they would be in season 2, and then they weren't. It's pretty straight forward. 2) No they actually didn't, and it honestly doesn't seem like they did, because even the mediators are saying they don't know who made the ultimate decision. Some people are saying SC2Con, some are saying team managers, but the team managers never contacted NASL directly, a claim NASL has stated several times and I haven't seen anybody challenge. 3) NASL created a thread in TL saying that Koreans won't be participating because of failed negotiations and what the negotiations are about. He criticized NASL for going public, while going public himself (TL isn't the only thing considered public). A wiser move would have been, if you read NASL saying "I am confused, a lot of people are telling me different things, nobody knows who made this decisions and I want to talk to them to see what the problem is)...you would then contact NASL and talk to them. 4) Above 5) That players weren't shuttled to and from the venue, weren't cared for, didn't have their hotels booked. They did. There are even pictures. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:33 whateverpeeps wrote: 9 fucking weeks? You mean, 9 games? You don't have to play at 4 am, at least in Season 2, as that was changed (wonder how many managers are actually aware of that and took the time to ask that or read up on that). And NASL didn't make Boxer lose. Boxer lost because MC played better. Such is life as a pro-gamer...you're not always guaranteed to win. But actually, in Season 2, every player is guaranteed a $1000 prize if they attend (which they can use for travel), AND a $1000 stipend, which is more than enough compensation. Funny that someone who is negotiating for their entire team doesn't seem to even know what the other side is offering. That's still THEIR money though. If they decided not to fly over they would still be given the prize money right? It's like buying into a tournament and losing 1000 dollars by just attempting to place higher would be just downright shitty. Also, the koreans asking for all of this would apply to ALL the finalists. The foreigners just don't give a shit because their teams can afford these expenses. Korean teams have a lot more financial responsiblity in managing their team than foreign teams right now and they just can't afford to send all their players everywhere. | ||
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L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:29 koolaid1990 wrote: god for the last time, this whole "treat us good or we won't come" is logical and doesn't apply to any other tournament because NASL is something you have to devote a A LOT OF fuckin time for. 9 fuckin weeks, play at 4 am, wait 2 hours because your opponent doesn't show up, get 1st in your group, pay $80 to go to the venue, wait more than 5 hours, lose on 2 maps, and your whole 9 weeks spent is WORTHLESS. That was pretty much slayersBoxer, the fuckin emperor. Tell me, after going through that, wouldn't you want some more demands? -9 weeks -4am -single elim final -travel expenses All things that they knew well ahead of time before the tournament even started. Compare your risk/reward to a foreigner trying to get into code s. You gotta spend at least a month to maybe get $1500 (much less than the $2000 nasl is offering for certain). And then the koreans complain that foreigners dont wanna go to korea cus its too hard rofl. | ||
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