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MVP's Coach on NASL Korean exit - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
676 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 34 Next All
Seditary
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia7033 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-17 04:33:10
August 17 2011 04:30 GMT
#101
A lot of people seem to be conflating the interview with Coach Choi whose team has not participated in NASL, with every Korean who did.
Love is more fun than hate.
brachester
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia1786 Posts
August 17 2011 04:30 GMT
#102
On August 17 2011 13:25 Milkis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 13:08 Xeris wrote:
We provided shuttle pickup and drop off services to all players at the finals. I'm not sure why he is commenting about something he wasn't there to witness T_T


Haha.

Milkis comes to save the day
I hate all this singing
whateverpeeps
Profile Joined August 2011
United States214 Posts
August 17 2011 04:31 GMT
#103
On August 17 2011 13:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
The total expenses for the trip for each player were over $2,000, and while that was the amount NASL offered to cover, $1,000 of that came out of the prize money for taking last place at the finals. That meant that players taking last place were losing money, making it difficult to justify nine weeks worth of effort for many professional gamers.


So you go through a 2 month long tournament, place top 16, and you actually end up losing money. A lot at that too. The tournament just isn't worth the risk vs. reward. It's not just winning one game in the playoffs, it's making it into the top 8 of a 64 player tournament which is very time consuming and uncomfortable the entire way through.

NASL has done well trying to do what they can, but the fact of the matter is they still aren't covering a reasonable amount for their finalists.


Well this is how it works. All people who make the finals get a travel stipend of $1000. Then, NASL also gave all 16 players a minimum prize of $1000 that they weren't giving before (new this season). Which totals $2000.

Yes, if you don't make the finals you don't get any money despite participating in a 2 month tournament. And while I would agree with you that it would be nice, both for fans and players for NASLto have some kind of mid-season prize to make it "worth it"....that's not what the foreigners asked for.

They're not asking for compensation because the season is a long time and they want to be paid for playing, they specifically asked for travel and lodging, and they got an offer simply for that.
theBizness
Profile Joined July 2011
United States696 Posts
August 17 2011 04:31 GMT
#104
On August 17 2011 12:50 ThreeActPlay wrote:
"Finally, because I’m answering what NASL should change in order for MVP team to participate, NASL should take better care of the players, including pick up from the airport, accomodations, and scheduling, instead of focusing only on the broadcast. If NASL want the tournament to grow, the players’ convenience should be the first priority in order to create great matches so that the fans will become enthusiastic."

Sorry, but this is bunk to me. If you have to be wined and dined to compete, tough. NASL should focus on the production and the broadcast, since that's what the fans care about.


As a fan, I care more about the quality of the players and games.
Less money for casters, more money for players.
FairForever
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada2392 Posts
August 17 2011 04:31 GMT
#105
On August 17 2011 13:30 brachester wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 13:25 Milkis wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:08 Xeris wrote:
We provided shuttle pickup and drop off services to all players at the finals. I'm not sure why he is commenting about something he wasn't there to witness T_T


Haha.

Milkis comes to save the day


That's hardy "saving the day" - I can't take the "Haha." seriously until he actually explains what it means.
NHY
Profile Joined October 2010
1013 Posts
August 17 2011 04:31 GMT
#106
On August 17 2011 13:22 whateverpeeps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 13:19 L3gendary wrote:
Koreans' sense of entitlement is disgusting. They can barely get sponsors so they want nasl to foot the bill for all their expenses, and give their players manicures and spa treatment while they're at it.



The worst part is they are lecturing NASL on what the proper way to go about things is, when:

1) They signed contracts, then broke them

2) Started negotiations, but made it impossible to know who to talk to

3) Talk about issues they have with NASL in public while criticizing NASL for going public, even though NASL wasn't directly criticizing anyone and they are

4) And doing the above after NASL clearly expressed that they don't know who made the decision and don't know who to talk to, ad that if anyone has a problem, to message them so they can talk and improve the situation and end on good terms.

5) Made several erroneous claims in this post alone.


1) You can't say the 'broke' the contract without know what it is.

2) NASL knew from the beginning who to talk to. You know the person who talked to them.

3) NASL created a thread in TL. He is doing an interview.

4) Again, NASL knows who to talk to, what the problem is.

5) Name them.
nufcrulz
Profile Joined February 2010
Singapore934 Posts
August 17 2011 04:32 GMT
#107
On August 17 2011 13:29 koolaid1990 wrote:
god for the last time, this whole "treat us good or we won't come" is logical and doesn't apply to any other tournament because NASL is something you have to devote a A LOT OF fuckin time for. 9 fuckin weeks, play at 4 am, wait 2 hours because your opponent shows up, get 1st in your group, pay $80 to go to the venue, wait more than 5 hours, lose on 2 maps, and your whole 9 weeks spent is WORTHLESS. That was pretty much slayersBoxer, the fuckin emperor. Tell me, after going through that, wouldn't you want some more demands?


the thing is, other than the 4am part (which is pretty much unavoidable considering this is the NASL, not the KSL), all the other non korean participants had to go through these as well, but you don't see them complaining and withdrawing from the competition do you?
captive411
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States80 Posts
August 17 2011 04:33 GMT
#108
NASL amateurish? No effing way!
twitter.com/stormcrack
whateverpeeps
Profile Joined August 2011
United States214 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-17 04:35:22
August 17 2011 04:33 GMT
#109
On August 17 2011 13:29 koolaid1990 wrote:
god for the last time, this whole "treat us good or we won't come" is logical and doesn't apply to any other tournament because NASL is something you have to devote a A LOT OF fuckin time for. 9 fuckin weeks, play at 4 am, wait 2 hours because your opponent doesn't show up, get 1st in your group, pay $80 to go to the venue, wait more than 5 hours, lose on 2 maps, and your whole 9 weeks spent is WORTHLESS. That was pretty much slayersBoxer, the fuckin emperor. Tell me, after going through that, wouldn't you want some more demands?


9 fucking weeks? You mean, 9 games?

You don't have to play at 4 am, at least in Season 2, as that was changed (wonder how many managers are actually aware of that and took the time to ask that or read up on that).

And NASL didn't make Boxer lose. Boxer lost because MC played better. Such is life as a pro-gamer...you're not always guaranteed to win.

But actually, in Season 2, every player is guaranteed a $1000 prize if they attend (which they can use for travel), AND a $1000 stipend, which is more than enough compensation.


Funny that someone who is negotiating for their entire team doesn't seem to even know what the other side is offering.
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
August 17 2011 04:34 GMT
#110
On August 17 2011 13:31 FairForever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 13:30 brachester wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:25 Milkis wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:08 Xeris wrote:
We provided shuttle pickup and drop off services to all players at the finals. I'm not sure why he is commenting about something he wasn't there to witness T_T


Haha.

Milkis comes to save the day


That's hardy "saving the day" - I can't take the "Haha." seriously until he actually explains what it means.


There was a lot of talk about the shuttle service by the Koreans. But let's say, "providing" the service isn't always everything.
akalarry
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1978 Posts
August 17 2011 04:35 GMT
#111
the only thing that matters is the contract, and without knowing the contents, there's nothing to talk about.
darkest44
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1009 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-17 04:48:09
August 17 2011 04:36 GMT
#112
So they're going to ditch and screw over a league they already let their players qualify for, knowing NASL's policies before the qualifiers, over petty shit like being picked up at the airport for free... which actually I bet NASL would probably agree to do. But I'm sure the koreans behind this all, will just come up with 5 more demands for every demand met. Korea has been nothing but a drama fest and pissing contest lately, with these coaches/whoever clearly trying to power grab and be the next kespa. Yea NASL isn't the greatest, but they DO TRY and they do improve drastically, what korea is doing is just selfish and unprofessional. If they withdrew BEFORE qualifying then maybe itd be understandable. Man up and participate this season and decline to participate/dont enter the qualifiers, for the next.

Pathetic, foreigners travel across the globe and participate in tournaments which provide much less than NASL (no travel stipend, etc), and you don't see them making laundry lists of demands and withdrawing out of tournaments they already took other people's potential spots in through qualifiers.
ELA
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark4608 Posts
August 17 2011 04:37 GMT
#113
On August 17 2011 13:34 Milkis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 13:31 FairForever wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:30 brachester wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:25 Milkis wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:08 Xeris wrote:
We provided shuttle pickup and drop off services to all players at the finals. I'm not sure why he is commenting about something he wasn't there to witness T_T


Haha.

Milkis comes to save the day


That's hardy "saving the day" - I can't take the "Haha." seriously until he actually explains what it means.


There was a lot of talk about the shuttle service by the Koreans. But let's say, "providing" the service isn't always everything.


Care to explain what they expect of a shuttle service? Is it not only a question of transport from A to B?
The first link of chain forged, the first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.
koolaid1990
Profile Joined September 2010
831 Posts
August 17 2011 04:38 GMT
#114
On August 17 2011 13:32 nufcrulz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 13:29 koolaid1990 wrote:
god for the last time, this whole "treat us good or we won't come" is logical and doesn't apply to any other tournament because NASL is something you have to devote a A LOT OF fuckin time for. 9 fuckin weeks, play at 4 am, wait 2 hours because your opponent shows up, get 1st in your group, pay $80 to go to the venue, wait more than 5 hours, lose on 2 maps, and your whole 9 weeks spent is WORTHLESS. That was pretty much slayersBoxer, the fuckin emperor. Tell me, after going through that, wouldn't you want some more demands?


the thing is, other than the 4am part (which is pretty much unavoidable considering this is the NASL, not the KSL), all the other non korean participants had to go through these as well, but you don't see them complaining and withdrawing from the competition do you?

I bet even Ret was pissed as hell as he got 1st in his group, got knocked out in less than in hour.
I bet many were at least slightly frusterated.
And the 4am part isn't just another "other than that 4am thing"
Its changing your entire frekin sleep cycle. And Yes it is unavoidable, but NASL didn't do shit when there were no shows. Like when fuckin painuser didn't come and made boxer wait hours. They should have handled this much better. if they couldn't contact painuser, disqualify him after 15 minutes for god sakes.
Rayansaki
Profile Joined January 2011
Portugal1266 Posts
August 17 2011 04:39 GMT
#115
On August 17 2011 13:15 Nerski wrote:It's quite clear most of the korean teams didn't fully understand the contracts and terms....complaining about getting up at 4am is kind of a mute point of 'mistreatment' because they knew fully well when the league was taking place.


Did the contracts and terms state that they would sometimes have to wait 2 hours for another player?

I fully understand their side, they have to pay deposits, which makes them feel like they are treated as potential criminals, and they don't get it back right away. They have to forfeit any sort of sleep schedule in order to play through the massive 2 month qualifying process which does NOT guarantee them a spot. They are also expected to play the remaining games even after they are no longer in a qualifying position or else they get deposit penalties. They have to spend thousands of dollars to play in a tournament with a format that has the potential to eliminate them after just 2 games, and it's on fixed maps so they don't get an advantage in g2 if they lose g1.

And this is just my 2cents, but i'd guess the reason they only decided to leave the NASL S2 so late was because they were still in a negotiation process.

On August 17 2011 13:15 Nerski wrote:

You don't see GSL paying airfair for anyone who wins an MLG, or paying for food, or anything like that do you? You get a Code S pass, which may or may not amount to something....or a Code A pass which is a money sink unless you can make it to code S in 1 month and then place well in code S. The Korean leagues do just as little for the players as NASL.


The Korean leagues have no reason to give advantages to foreign players. It's just more code A fodder that gets knocked first round by korean b-teamers. They have no reason to want more than just the 2-3 deserving foreigners that stay and play and attract international audiences.

NASL needs the korean players if they want to have the best players in the world competing, otherwise it's just second tier pros playing, and that's why they need to give more and be more flexible than what GSL offers to foreigners. GSL already has the best players, they have no reason to give benefits to second tier pros.
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse: IMNestea (Death), IMLosirA (Famine), IMmvp (War), IMFenix (Conquest)
Inky87
Profile Joined January 2011
United States533 Posts
August 17 2011 04:39 GMT
#116
On August 17 2011 13:34 Milkis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 13:31 FairForever wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:30 brachester wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:25 Milkis wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:08 Xeris wrote:
We provided shuttle pickup and drop off services to all players at the finals. I'm not sure why he is commenting about something he wasn't there to witness T_T


Haha.

Milkis comes to save the day


That's hardy "saving the day" - I can't take the "Haha." seriously until he actually explains what it means.


There was a lot of talk about the shuttle service by the Koreans. But let's say, "providing" the service isn't always everything.


That's vague, unhelpful, and doesn't make them look any better.
Sandro
Profile Joined April 2011
897 Posts
August 17 2011 04:40 GMT
#117
On August 17 2011 13:37 ELA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 13:34 Milkis wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:31 FairForever wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:30 brachester wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:25 Milkis wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:08 Xeris wrote:
We provided shuttle pickup and drop off services to all players at the finals. I'm not sure why he is commenting about something he wasn't there to witness T_T


Haha.

Milkis comes to save the day


That's hardy "saving the day" - I can't take the "Haha." seriously until he actually explains what it means.


There was a lot of talk about the shuttle service by the Koreans. But let's say, "providing" the service isn't always everything.


Care to explain what they expect of a shuttle service? Is it not only a question of transport from A to B?

The Koreans are probably upset that the shuttle service wasnt a limousine with caviar and wine being served on the ride to the venue.
whateverpeeps
Profile Joined August 2011
United States214 Posts
August 17 2011 04:40 GMT
#118
On August 17 2011 13:31 NHY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 13:22 whateverpeeps wrote:
On August 17 2011 13:19 L3gendary wrote:
Koreans' sense of entitlement is disgusting. They can barely get sponsors so they want nasl to foot the bill for all their expenses, and give their players manicures and spa treatment while they're at it.



The worst part is they are lecturing NASL on what the proper way to go about things is, when:

1) They signed contracts, then broke them

2) Started negotiations, but made it impossible to know who to talk to

3) Talk about issues they have with NASL in public while criticizing NASL for going public, even though NASL wasn't directly criticizing anyone and they are

4) And doing the above after NASL clearly expressed that they don't know who made the decision and don't know who to talk to, ad that if anyone has a problem, to message them so they can talk and improve the situation and end on good terms.

5) Made several erroneous claims in this post alone.


1) You can't say the 'broke' the contract without know what it is.

2) NASL knew from the beginning who to talk to. You know the person who talked to them.

3) NASL created a thread in TL. He is doing an interview.

4) Again, NASL knows who to talk to, what the problem is.

5) Name them.



1) They signed saying they would be in season 2, and then they weren't. It's pretty straight forward.

2) No they actually didn't, and it honestly doesn't seem like they did, because even the mediators are saying they don't know who made the ultimate decision. Some people are saying SC2Con, some are saying team managers, but the team managers never contacted NASL directly, a claim NASL has stated several times and I haven't seen anybody challenge.

3) NASL created a thread in TL saying that Koreans won't be participating because of failed negotiations and what the negotiations are about. He criticized NASL for going public, while going public himself (TL isn't the only thing considered public).

A wiser move would have been, if you read NASL saying "I am confused, a lot of people are telling me different things, nobody knows who made this decisions and I want to talk to them to see what the problem is)...you would then contact NASL and talk to them.

4) Above

5) That players weren't shuttled to and from the venue, weren't cared for, didn't have their hotels booked. They did. There are even pictures.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
August 17 2011 04:40 GMT
#119
On August 17 2011 13:33 whateverpeeps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 13:29 koolaid1990 wrote:
god for the last time, this whole "treat us good or we won't come" is logical and doesn't apply to any other tournament because NASL is something you have to devote a A LOT OF fuckin time for. 9 fuckin weeks, play at 4 am, wait 2 hours because your opponent doesn't show up, get 1st in your group, pay $80 to go to the venue, wait more than 5 hours, lose on 2 maps, and your whole 9 weeks spent is WORTHLESS. That was pretty much slayersBoxer, the fuckin emperor. Tell me, after going through that, wouldn't you want some more demands?


9 fucking weeks? You mean, 9 games?

You don't have to play at 4 am, at least in Season 2, as that was changed (wonder how many managers are actually aware of that and took the time to ask that or read up on that).

And NASL didn't make Boxer lose. Boxer lost because MC played better. Such is life as a pro-gamer...you're not always guaranteed to win.

But actually, in Season 2, every player is guaranteed a $1000 prize if they attend (which they can use for travel), AND a $1000 stipend, which is more than enough compensation.


Funny that someone who is negotiating for their entire team doesn't seem to even know what the other side is offering.

That's still THEIR money though. If they decided not to fly over they would still be given the prize money right? It's like buying into a tournament and losing 1000 dollars by just attempting to place higher would be just downright shitty.

Also, the koreans asking for all of this would apply to ALL the finalists. The foreigners just don't give a shit because their teams can afford these expenses. Korean teams have a lot more financial responsiblity in managing their team than foreign teams right now and they just can't afford to send all their players everywhere.
L3gendary
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1470 Posts
August 17 2011 04:40 GMT
#120
On August 17 2011 13:29 koolaid1990 wrote:
god for the last time, this whole "treat us good or we won't come" is logical and doesn't apply to any other tournament because NASL is something you have to devote a A LOT OF fuckin time for. 9 fuckin weeks, play at 4 am, wait 2 hours because your opponent doesn't show up, get 1st in your group, pay $80 to go to the venue, wait more than 5 hours, lose on 2 maps, and your whole 9 weeks spent is WORTHLESS. That was pretty much slayersBoxer, the fuckin emperor. Tell me, after going through that, wouldn't you want some more demands?


-9 weeks
-4am
-single elim final
-travel expenses

All things that they knew well ahead of time before the tournament even started.

Compare your risk/reward to a foreigner trying to get into code s. You gotta spend at least a month to maybe get $1500 (much less than the $2000 nasl is offering for certain). And then the koreans complain that foreigners dont wanna go to korea cus its too hard rofl.
Watching Jaedong play purifies my eyes. -Coach Ju Hoon
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