On August 18 2013 05:08 Decendos wrote: well if T and Z go even into lategame on basically every map except neoplanet T just denies creep which means no transfuses + kite ultras all day + doing mass drops since mutas are dead or not many left. most times you see bio + mine get crushed by ultras is either: lucky fungal or Z got ultras out vs marines + mines (basically no marauders). on equal footing T will have marauders out to do drops + countering ultras. ultras offcreep are really bad + 3 mines = 6 supply almost kills an ultra (not even counting splash) and are much cheaper. so his suggestion to maybe buff ultra hp might be good although i think the bigger problem right now is getting to hive on equal footing.
lurker would be so awesome since a ground ranged and sustainable AoE unit vs mass opponent units is what Z is missing so much. maybe in LotV
What?? Ultralisks are already insanely beefy and spamming Transfuses results in ridiculous resilience.
DK said that as one possible buff to lategame Z. and yeah try transfusing offcreep + they get kited all day long and you cant defend drops. first and biggest problem: Z can reach hive on equal footing. second and smaller problem: Z can either build an army to deal with T mass medivac, mass mine army OR build an army to defend mass drops, both is really hard right now. but yeah would rather like DK fixing the first problem and then see how it works out.
Yeah, the 90 workers race doesn't have any minerals to spare in static defence, and mutas somehow always auto-die before Hive comes into play.
On August 18 2013 05:08 Decendos wrote: well if T and Z go even into lategame on basically every map except neoplanet T just denies creep which means no transfuses + kite ultras all day + doing mass drops since mutas are dead or not many left. most times you see bio + mine get crushed by ultras is either: lucky fungal or Z got ultras out vs marines + mines (basically no marauders). on equal footing T will have marauders out to do drops + countering ultras. ultras offcreep are really bad + 3 mines = 6 supply almost kills an ultra (not even counting splash) and are much cheaper. so his suggestion to maybe buff ultra hp might be good although i think the bigger problem right now is getting to hive on equal footing.
lurker would be so awesome since a ground ranged and sustainable AoE unit vs mass opponent units is what Z is missing so much. maybe in LotV
What?? Ultralisks are already insanely beefy and spamming Transfuses results in ridiculous resilience.
DK said that as one possible buff to lategame Z. and yeah try transfusing offcreep + they get kited all day long and you cant defend drops. first and biggest problem: Z can reach hive on equal footing. second and smaller problem: Z can either build an army to deal with T mass medivac, mass mine army OR build an army to defend mass drops, both is really hard right now. but yeah would rather like DK fixing the first problem and then see how it works out.
an hp buff would be nice but would it really help out against kiting? I feel like a movement speed buff would make ultras be more balanced. perhaps increasing the speed to 3.1 and also bumping the gas or mineral cost a bit as well, maybe 3.1 move speed and 350 minerals 200 gas?
On August 18 2013 05:08 Decendos wrote: well if T and Z go even into lategame on basically every map except neoplanet T just denies creep which means no transfuses + kite ultras all day + doing mass drops since mutas are dead or not many left. most times you see bio + mine get crushed by ultras is either: lucky fungal or Z got ultras out vs marines + mines (basically no marauders). on equal footing T will have marauders out to do drops + countering ultras. ultras offcreep are really bad + 3 mines = 6 supply almost kills an ultra (not even counting splash) and are much cheaper. so his suggestion to maybe buff ultra hp might be good although i think the bigger problem right now is getting to hive on equal footing.
lurker would be so awesome since a ground ranged and sustainable AoE unit vs mass opponent units is what Z is missing so much. maybe in LotV
What?? Ultralisks are already insanely beefy and spamming Transfuses results in ridiculous resilience.
DK said that as one possible buff to lategame Z. and yeah try transfusing offcreep + they get kited all day long and you cant defend drops. first and biggest problem: Z can reach hive on equal footing. second and smaller problem: Z can either build an army to deal with T mass medivac, mass mine army OR build an army to defend mass drops, both is really hard right now. but yeah would rather like DK fixing the first problem and then see how it works out.
Yeah, the 90 workers race doesn't have any minerals to spare in static defence, and mutas somehow always auto-die before Hive comes into play.
90 worker vs MMMM? nope. leftover mutas (you need at least 12 or so to defend speedvacs) vs MMMM if you rush hive? nope. static defense doing anything vs 3 3 MMM? nope.
btw whats your take on offcreep fighting? you just ignored it. like you cant transfuse offcreep and kite ultras all day long.
but like i said i would like to see them buffing some lairtech stuff so Z is able to go lategame on equal footing and see how that works out before they buff stuff like ultras.
also creep plays too big of a role imo. its too good for Z oncreep and too bad offcreep.
On August 18 2013 05:08 Decendos wrote: well if T and Z go even into lategame on basically every map except neoplanet T just denies creep which means no transfuses + kite ultras all day + doing mass drops since mutas are dead or not many left. most times you see bio + mine get crushed by ultras is either: lucky fungal or Z got ultras out vs marines + mines (basically no marauders). on equal footing T will have marauders out to do drops + countering ultras. ultras offcreep are really bad + 3 mines = 6 supply almost kills an ultra (not even counting splash) and are much cheaper. so his suggestion to maybe buff ultra hp might be good although i think the bigger problem right now is getting to hive on equal footing.
lurker would be so awesome since a ground ranged and sustainable AoE unit vs mass opponent units is what Z is missing so much. maybe in LotV
What?? Ultralisks are already insanely beefy and spamming Transfuses results in ridiculous resilience.
DK said that as one possible buff to lategame Z. and yeah try transfusing offcreep + they get kited all day long and you cant defend drops. first and biggest problem: Z can reach hive on equal footing. second and smaller problem: Z can either build an army to deal with T mass medivac, mass mine army OR build an army to defend mass drops, both is really hard right now. but yeah would rather like DK fixing the first problem and then see how it works out.
Yeah, the 90 workers race doesn't have any minerals to spare in static defence, and mutas somehow always auto-die before Hive comes into play.
90 worker vs MMMM? nope. leftover mutas (you need at least 12 or so to defend speedvacs) vs MMMM if you rush hive? nope. static defense doing anything vs 3 3 MMM? nope.
btw whats your take on offcreep fighting? you just ignored it. like you cant transfuse offcreep and kite ultras all day long.
but like i said i would like to see them buffing some lairtech stuff so Z is able to go lategame on equal footing and see how that works out before they buff stuff like ultras.
also creep plays too big of a role imo. its too good for Z oncreep and too bad offcreep.
Personally, since a long time I think creep giving a movement speed bonus to Zerg ground units is an idiotic idea because each Zerg ground has basically two versions, making it difficult/impossible to properly balance the variant on steroids and the "normal" one.
Queens can move offcreep, Fungal exists, circling with Zerglings exists, Terran doesn't always have (enough) room to hit & run, and said hit & run isn't enough to handle the Zerg charge in some cases anyway. Your "Ultralisks are essentially worthless offcreep" summary is simplistic, as is your assumption that Zerg is always stuck on 75 drones, 2/2 and starved vs 4M. Most of the time, when I face ultras, Zerg still has 15-25 mutas left. Static defence buys time so lings/mutas can come and clear the drop(s).
On August 18 2013 05:08 Decendos wrote: well if T and Z go even into lategame on basically every map except neoplanet T just denies creep which means no transfuses + kite ultras all day + doing mass drops since mutas are dead or not many left. most times you see bio + mine get crushed by ultras is either: lucky fungal or Z got ultras out vs marines + mines (basically no marauders). on equal footing T will have marauders out to do drops + countering ultras. ultras offcreep are really bad + 3 mines = 6 supply almost kills an ultra (not even counting splash) and are much cheaper. so his suggestion to maybe buff ultra hp might be good although i think the bigger problem right now is getting to hive on equal footing.
lurker would be so awesome since a ground ranged and sustainable AoE unit vs mass opponent units is what Z is missing so much. maybe in LotV
What?? Ultralisks are already insanely beefy and spamming Transfuses results in ridiculous resilience.
DK said that as one possible buff to lategame Z. and yeah try transfusing offcreep + they get kited all day long and you cant defend drops. first and biggest problem: Z can reach hive on equal footing. second and smaller problem: Z can either build an army to deal with T mass medivac, mass mine army OR build an army to defend mass drops, both is really hard right now. but yeah would rather like DK fixing the first problem and then see how it works out.
Yeah, the 90 workers race doesn't have any minerals to spare in static defence, and mutas somehow always auto-die before Hive comes into play.
90 worker vs MMMM? nope. leftover mutas (you need at least 12 or so to defend speedvacs) vs MMMM if you rush hive? nope. static defense doing anything vs 3 3 MMM? nope.
btw whats your take on offcreep fighting? you just ignored it. like you cant transfuse offcreep and kite ultras all day long.
but like i said i would like to see them buffing some lairtech stuff so Z is able to go lategame on equal footing and see how that works out before they buff stuff like ultras.
also creep plays too big of a role imo. its too good for Z oncreep and too bad offcreep.
Most of the time, when I face ultras, Zerg still has 15-25 mutas left.
On August 18 2013 05:08 Decendos wrote: well if T and Z go even into lategame on basically every map except neoplanet T just denies creep which means no transfuses + kite ultras all day + doing mass drops since mutas are dead or not many left. most times you see bio + mine get crushed by ultras is either: lucky fungal or Z got ultras out vs marines + mines (basically no marauders). on equal footing T will have marauders out to do drops + countering ultras. ultras offcreep are really bad + 3 mines = 6 supply almost kills an ultra (not even counting splash) and are much cheaper. so his suggestion to maybe buff ultra hp might be good although i think the bigger problem right now is getting to hive on equal footing.
lurker would be so awesome since a ground ranged and sustainable AoE unit vs mass opponent units is what Z is missing so much. maybe in LotV
What?? Ultralisks are already insanely beefy and spamming Transfuses results in ridiculous resilience.
DK said that as one possible buff to lategame Z. and yeah try transfusing offcreep + they get kited all day long and you cant defend drops. first and biggest problem: Z can reach hive on equal footing. second and smaller problem: Z can either build an army to deal with T mass medivac, mass mine army OR build an army to defend mass drops, both is really hard right now. but yeah would rather like DK fixing the first problem and then see how it works out.
Yeah, the 90 workers race doesn't have any minerals to spare in static defence, and mutas somehow always auto-die before Hive comes into play.
Does Z get 90 workers often against you? I always thought it was standard to stop at 70ish like every other race until the 5-6 base scenario. And speaking of 90 workers, why dont protoss/terran get 90 workers?
its standard to go around 90 drones with muta ling bling and then get less and less with a hive army (use them for static d, don't remake drones and make more army).
On August 18 2013 05:08 Decendos wrote: well if T and Z go even into lategame on basically every map except neoplanet T just denies creep which means no transfuses + kite ultras all day + doing mass drops since mutas are dead or not many left. most times you see bio + mine get crushed by ultras is either: lucky fungal or Z got ultras out vs marines + mines (basically no marauders). on equal footing T will have marauders out to do drops + countering ultras. ultras offcreep are really bad + 3 mines = 6 supply almost kills an ultra (not even counting splash) and are much cheaper. so his suggestion to maybe buff ultra hp might be good although i think the bigger problem right now is getting to hive on equal footing.
lurker would be so awesome since a ground ranged and sustainable AoE unit vs mass opponent units is what Z is missing so much. maybe in LotV
What?? Ultralisks are already insanely beefy and spamming Transfuses results in ridiculous resilience.
DK said that as one possible buff to lategame Z. and yeah try transfusing offcreep + they get kited all day long and you cant defend drops. first and biggest problem: Z can reach hive on equal footing. second and smaller problem: Z can either build an army to deal with T mass medivac, mass mine army OR build an army to defend mass drops, both is really hard right now. but yeah would rather like DK fixing the first problem and then see how it works out.
Yeah, the 90 workers race doesn't have any minerals to spare in static defence, and mutas somehow always auto-die before Hive comes into play.
Does Z get 90 workers often against you? I always thought it was standard to stop at 70ish like every other race until the 5-6 base scenario. And speaking of 90 workers, why dont protoss/terran get 90 workers?
Because they don't have Zerg's insane outbursts of production. Yes, each time Zerg has time to saturate his fourth, he gets 85-90 drones. They generally stop around 75 first to defend the Medivac push.
On August 18 2013 05:08 Decendos wrote: well if T and Z go even into lategame on basically every map except neoplanet T just denies creep which means no transfuses + kite ultras all day + doing mass drops since mutas are dead or not many left. most times you see bio + mine get crushed by ultras is either: lucky fungal or Z got ultras out vs marines + mines (basically no marauders). on equal footing T will have marauders out to do drops + countering ultras. ultras offcreep are really bad + 3 mines = 6 supply almost kills an ultra (not even counting splash) and are much cheaper. so his suggestion to maybe buff ultra hp might be good although i think the bigger problem right now is getting to hive on equal footing.
lurker would be so awesome since a ground ranged and sustainable AoE unit vs mass opponent units is what Z is missing so much. maybe in LotV
What?? Ultralisks are already insanely beefy and spamming Transfuses results in ridiculous resilience.
DK said that as one possible buff to lategame Z. and yeah try transfusing offcreep + they get kited all day long and you cant defend drops. first and biggest problem: Z can reach hive on equal footing. second and smaller problem: Z can either build an army to deal with T mass medivac, mass mine army OR build an army to defend mass drops, both is really hard right now. but yeah would rather like DK fixing the first problem and then see how it works out.
Yeah, the 90 workers race doesn't have any minerals to spare in static defence, and mutas somehow always auto-die before Hive comes into play.
90 worker vs MMMM? nope. leftover mutas (you need at least 12 or so to defend speedvacs) vs MMMM if you rush hive? nope. static defense doing anything vs 3 3 MMM? nope.
btw whats your take on offcreep fighting? you just ignored it. like you cant transfuse offcreep and kite ultras all day long.
but like i said i would like to see them buffing some lairtech stuff so Z is able to go lategame on equal footing and see how that works out before they buff stuff like ultras.
also creep plays too big of a role imo. its too good for Z oncreep and too bad offcreep.
Personally, since a long time I think creep giving a movement speed bonus to Zerg ground units is an idiotic idea because each Zerg ground has basically two versions, making it difficult/impossible to properly balance the variant on steroids and the "normal" one.
Queens can move offcreep, Fungal exists, circling with Zerglings exists, Terran doesn't always have (enough) room to hit & run, and said hit & run isn't enough to handle the Zerg charge in some cases anyway. Your "Ultralisks are essentially worthless offcreep" summary is simplistic, as is your assumption that Zerg is always stuck on 75 drones, 2/2 and starved vs 4M. Most of the time, when I face ultras, Zerg still has 15-25 mutas left. Static defence buys time so lings/mutas can come and clear the drop(s).
well yeah they should make oncreep Z units a bit slower while making offcreep Z units a bit faster so creep doesnt affect the game so much.
as for your seconds part. it your opponent gets 15-25 mutas and hive and ultras and 90 drones...you got outplayed very hard. watch prolevel TvZs and tell me how often you see that on equal skilled players. basically Z has huge problems to go hive while surviving the 4M push since you have to use all gas for banes and mutas and even if you have 250g for IP + hive...that means you have hive and still no gas for infestors, ultras, +3 +3, adrenalin glands and ultra carapace while still rebuilding mutas and banes. thats the main problem right now which is why i said they should fix lairtech Z instead of buffing stuff like ultras. only thing why i like the proposed ultra hp buff is to make it viable ZvP lategame.
On August 18 2013 05:08 Decendos wrote: well if T and Z go even into lategame on basically every map except neoplanet T just denies creep which means no transfuses + kite ultras all day + doing mass drops since mutas are dead or not many left. most times you see bio + mine get crushed by ultras is either: lucky fungal or Z got ultras out vs marines + mines (basically no marauders). on equal footing T will have marauders out to do drops + countering ultras. ultras offcreep are really bad + 3 mines = 6 supply almost kills an ultra (not even counting splash) and are much cheaper. so his suggestion to maybe buff ultra hp might be good although i think the bigger problem right now is getting to hive on equal footing.
lurker would be so awesome since a ground ranged and sustainable AoE unit vs mass opponent units is what Z is missing so much. maybe in LotV
What?? Ultralisks are already insanely beefy and spamming Transfuses results in ridiculous resilience.
DK said that as one possible buff to lategame Z. and yeah try transfusing offcreep + they get kited all day long and you cant defend drops. first and biggest problem: Z can reach hive on equal footing. second and smaller problem: Z can either build an army to deal with T mass medivac, mass mine army OR build an army to defend mass drops, both is really hard right now. but yeah would rather like DK fixing the first problem and then see how it works out.
Yeah, the 90 workers race doesn't have any minerals to spare in static defence, and mutas somehow always auto-die before Hive comes into play.
90 worker vs MMMM? nope. leftover mutas (you need at least 12 or so to defend speedvacs) vs MMMM if you rush hive? nope. static defense doing anything vs 3 3 MMM? nope.
btw whats your take on offcreep fighting? you just ignored it. like you cant transfuse offcreep and kite ultras all day long.
but like i said i would like to see them buffing some lairtech stuff so Z is able to go lategame on equal footing and see how that works out before they buff stuff like ultras.
also creep plays too big of a role imo. its too good for Z oncreep and too bad offcreep.
Most of the time, when I face ultras, Zerg still has 15-25 mutas left.
that means you got outplayed hard.
Care to explain how Flash managed to win despite apparently being "outplayed hard" in your book?
On August 18 2013 05:08 Decendos wrote: well if T and Z go even into lategame on basically every map except neoplanet T just denies creep which means no transfuses + kite ultras all day + doing mass drops since mutas are dead or not many left. most times you see bio + mine get crushed by ultras is either: lucky fungal or Z got ultras out vs marines + mines (basically no marauders). on equal footing T will have marauders out to do drops + countering ultras. ultras offcreep are really bad + 3 mines = 6 supply almost kills an ultra (not even counting splash) and are much cheaper. so his suggestion to maybe buff ultra hp might be good although i think the bigger problem right now is getting to hive on equal footing.
lurker would be so awesome since a ground ranged and sustainable AoE unit vs mass opponent units is what Z is missing so much. maybe in LotV
What?? Ultralisks are already insanely beefy and spamming Transfuses results in ridiculous resilience.
DK said that as one possible buff to lategame Z. and yeah try transfusing offcreep + they get kited all day long and you cant defend drops. first and biggest problem: Z can reach hive on equal footing. second and smaller problem: Z can either build an army to deal with T mass medivac, mass mine army OR build an army to defend mass drops, both is really hard right now. but yeah would rather like DK fixing the first problem and then see how it works out.
Yeah, the 90 workers race doesn't have any minerals to spare in static defence, and mutas somehow always auto-die before Hive comes into play.
Does Z get 90 workers often against you? I always thought it was standard to stop at 70ish like every other race until the 5-6 base scenario. And speaking of 90 workers, why dont protoss/terran get 90 workers?
Because they don't have Zerg's insane outbursts of production. Yes, each time Zerg has time to saturate his fourth, he gets 85-90 drones. They generally stop around 75 first to defend the Medivac push.
Every race can have damn strong production. During the up/downs on Gwanganri a T (might have been jjakji) was producing 20 marines, 4 marauders, 4 widow mines and 2 medivacs/cycle. Just because it isnt coming out of 1 building doesnt limit your production, there is no reason that T or P cant get 90 workers and make more buildings to make more units.
On August 18 2013 05:08 Decendos wrote: well if T and Z go even into lategame on basically every map except neoplanet T just denies creep which means no transfuses + kite ultras all day + doing mass drops since mutas are dead or not many left. most times you see bio + mine get crushed by ultras is either: lucky fungal or Z got ultras out vs marines + mines (basically no marauders). on equal footing T will have marauders out to do drops + countering ultras. ultras offcreep are really bad + 3 mines = 6 supply almost kills an ultra (not even counting splash) and are much cheaper. so his suggestion to maybe buff ultra hp might be good although i think the bigger problem right now is getting to hive on equal footing.
lurker would be so awesome since a ground ranged and sustainable AoE unit vs mass opponent units is what Z is missing so much. maybe in LotV
What?? Ultralisks are already insanely beefy and spamming Transfuses results in ridiculous resilience.
DK said that as one possible buff to lategame Z. and yeah try transfusing offcreep + they get kited all day long and you cant defend drops. first and biggest problem: Z can reach hive on equal footing. second and smaller problem: Z can either build an army to deal with T mass medivac, mass mine army OR build an army to defend mass drops, both is really hard right now. but yeah would rather like DK fixing the first problem and then see how it works out.
Yeah, the 90 workers race doesn't have any minerals to spare in static defence, and mutas somehow always auto-die before Hive comes into play.
90 worker vs MMMM? nope. leftover mutas (you need at least 12 or so to defend speedvacs) vs MMMM if you rush hive? nope. static defense doing anything vs 3 3 MMM? nope.
btw whats your take on offcreep fighting? you just ignored it. like you cant transfuse offcreep and kite ultras all day long.
but like i said i would like to see them buffing some lairtech stuff so Z is able to go lategame on equal footing and see how that works out before they buff stuff like ultras.
also creep plays too big of a role imo. its too good for Z oncreep and too bad offcreep.
Most of the time, when I face ultras, Zerg still has 15-25 mutas left.
Care to explain how Flash managed to win despite apparently being "outplayed hard" in your book?
just watched it:
- no 90 drones but 75 - 3 3 finishes for T once hive finishes (its about 4 min 3 3 vs 2 2 which is a long time) - Z has like 12 mutas leftover once ultras hatch
--> this is a "good game" muta and hivetech wise and even this game is much much worse than you make it look in your posts (no 90 drones, no 15-25 mutas leftover, no equal upgrades + some very obv. micro mistakes from flash that other top level Ts do better right now). now there are so many examples where its even much worse and Z has less drones and even much later hivetech to stay alive vs 4M.
oh and your "how die flash win even being outplayed hard"...he wasnt outplayed as hard (see above) + that game is a great example of how much ultras and Z in general suck offcreep and in lategame which is why DK said they will buff Z.
On August 18 2013 05:59 willstertben wrote: its standard to go around 90 drones with muta ling bling and then get less and less with a hive army (use them for static d, don't remake drones and make more army).
How many times do you see Z get 90 drones with mutaling bling? You say standard like it happens all the time, but I very rarely see it happen... Usually it is 3 base near saturation and then maybe the 4th has gas drones (and they pull drones from their main/nat to get minerals there as the main at least will be running out of minerals).
I thought it would be useful for occasionally catching some ultralisks, corruptors, mutalisks and brood lords. There is an apm and energy requirement for using snipe, so it's not like you can actually use it for crowd control, so I don't think it's abusable.
I'm proposing this in the context of terran having a slight lack of options in dealing with ultralisks. The ghost isn't used too much in TvZ and TvT, so it seemed like a fun change to me.
On August 18 2013 06:22 Decendos wrote: just watched it:
Congratulations, it took you 12 minuts to watch a 32 minuts video!
- no 90 drones but 75
This is what I wrote:
On August 18 2013 05:48 TheDwf wrote: Most of the time, when I face ultras, Zerg still has 15-25 mutas left.
I didn't say Zerg was necessarily on 90 drones when it happens. If they suffered some kind of eco damage, it can be lower. Still changes nothing to the fact your initial point—"mutas are always gone when ultras hatch, leaving Zerg helpless against drops"—is wrong. Zergs with good muta retention can retain some/most of them by the time ultras come into play. From the last Code S season, you can check SHINE vs KeeN, Star Station and Flash vs Soulkey, Whirlwind; or Mvp vs Dimaga, Star Station, WCS Europe; Polt vs IdrA, Daybreak, WCS America (peak at 107 drones!); ForGG vs Stephano, Star Station, WCS Europe; MMA vs TLO, Whirlwind, WCS Europe; YoDa vs Bboong, Derelict Watcher, GSTL; Bogus vs Soulkey, Newkirk, OSL; ...
See, the examples are not lacking in which Zerg gets some ultras (or broods) while still having a decent fleet of mutas, so how about you stop pretending it can never happen?
- 3 3 finishes for T once hive finishes (its about 4 min 3 3 vs 2 2 which is a long time)
So?
- Z has like 12 mutas leftover once ultras hatch
16:27 in the video time, I see 15 mutas with the first 6 ultras. But whatever, better waste time counting how many wings are beating rather than discussing the original point.
--> this is a "good game" muta and hivetech wise and even this game is much much worse than you make it look in your posts (no 90 drones, no 15-25 mutas leftover, no equal upgrades + some very obv. micro mistakes from flash that other top level Ts do better right now). now there are so many examples where its even much worse and Z has less drones and even much later hivetech to stay alive vs 4M.
As if hyvaa hadn't made dozens of mistakes too in this game. The level at which Flash played this game is still unmatched by 99.99% of the Terran players, and even at Code S level there are only a few Terrans who could do as well.
just did this for a screen shot, If one is going up to 90 drones they better be mining on 10 gases or it seems pretty silly. IMO 82 should be the maximum amount of drones one gets. But maybe 78 with a 9th gas would be the best.
On August 18 2013 07:03 dutchfriese wrote: 75 drones is the optimal number IMO. 16 drones mining minerals at each base and 3 more mining at the fourth + 24 drones on 8 gases
just did this for a screen shot, If one is going up to 90 drones they better be mining on 10 gases or it seems pretty silly. IMO 82 should be the maximum amount of drones one gets. But maybe 78 with a 9th gas would be the best.
On August 18 2013 07:11 Dwayn wrote: you don't get a lot out of saturating the 4 base fully, cause you really want the gas. 90 drones on 4 base just seems bad.
Zerglings cost minerals. Hatcheries cost minerals. Static defence cost minerals. All the gas units cost minerals as well. Each time they have the chance, Zergs go over 75 drones. If Zerg is only interested in gas, explain this:
On August 18 2013 07:11 Dwayn wrote: you don't get a lot out of saturating the 4 base fully, cause you really want the gas. 90 drones on 4 base just seems bad.
Zerglings cost minerals. Hatcheries cost minerals. Static defence cost minerals. All the gas units cost minerals as well. Each time they have the chance, Zergs go over 75 drones. If Zerg is only interested in gas, explain this:
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XcDNvtn.jpg)
