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On August 12 2013 13:18 phantomfive wrote:Show nested quote +
Protoss players already can't compete in economy, what are you talking about? Terrans get much more mining because of mules and they always and I mean always get a faster 2nd and 3rd base.
Everyone who says things like this should play the other race for a while so they can see how easy it is to win with the 'advantage' they perceive..... In this case, chronoboost out a lot of probes, then look at the score at the end of the game to see who was mining more resources. If you aren't skipping probes, you should be able to keep up with or surpass the terran.
Wait... Zerg and Protoss get Economic lead in early game - Mid Game and Terran gets Economic lead in Late game?
Yeah... that's "unfair" Grow up please. What, you want Protoss to have Econ lead in Beginning, mid, and late??? Protoss Death Ball must need a buff then too right?
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On August 12 2013 21:38 catabowl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 13:18 phantomfive wrote:
Protoss players already can't compete in economy, what are you talking about? Terrans get much more mining because of mules and they always and I mean always get a faster 2nd and 3rd base.
Everyone who says things like this should play the other race for a while so they can see how easy it is to win with the 'advantage' they perceive..... In this case, chronoboost out a lot of probes, then look at the score at the end of the game to see who was mining more resources. If you aren't skipping probes, you should be able to keep up with or surpass the terran. Wait... Zerg and Protoss get Economic lead in early game - Mid Game and Terran gets Economic lead in Late game? Yeah... that's "unfair" Grow up please. What, you want Protoss to have Econ lead in Beginning, mid, and late??? Protoss Death Ball must need a buff then too right?
And terrans make 3 CC's in less than 10 minutes, how they dont have a economic advantage? If they have triple svcs production and triple MULE. If zergs dont kill them before he land this 3rd base, terran can make endeless pression using bio, and becomes very hard to deal if them, just using muta/baneling. because every marine wave you lose a lot of them.
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On August 12 2013 20:41 MattD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 20:22 Aiobhill wrote:On August 12 2013 19:50 beg wrote:On August 12 2013 18:53 Big J wrote:
Terran isn't really underrepresented at GM level, they only have a few players less than zerg on most servers. Someone has to be the least played race. global GMs in %: 33% Zerg, 40% Protoss, 28% Terran same picture on every server. can we just shrug this off? i'm not sure. You posted this - marginally rephrased - several times now. What, I mean what exactly, do you want? It makes no sense whatsoever to single out GM players. They are a tiny minority and their ladder games aren't broadcast. Two meaningful approaches for balancing. View Starcraft as a sport/viewer entertainment, then we balance around what we see in the biggest tournaments.. Or view it as Farmville with aliens, then we balance around all levels of play including the soccer moms, not just the ~0.0002% or so who happen to be in GM. Further reasons to not balance around GM: - the best players might chose to train privately or in team facilities instead of using it - players might be unwilling to show their best strategies on ladder - hacks and win trading - the Idra effect; losing during the heyday of Infestor/Broodlord to about every protoss he met, did that tell us more about balance or rather about GM league im not sure what you mean by the idra effect, pvz was 50/50 in wings of liberty because of brood lord infestor and immortal sentry both were equally broken and both races had something to whine about legitimately.
Ahah history is a fickle thing. No, that was not the case, sir.
Hattori: that post of me you've quoted... Perfect answer to what you answered my quote with.
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Broodlord/infestor was quite OP and boring to see always ta same late game composition, i like them become a lot less predominant, but without them is so hard to zerg push terran back. Ultras die to easily to marauders, and fungals are even harder to land it than storms or any other cast hability, making the zerg late game quite weak, mid game they only hold and early is where they can win, but only if is using a surprise elemental.
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I think it's generally accepted that Terran has an advantage in TvZ and that Protoss has an advantage in TvP. I really think it comes down to how the new HoTS units incorporate into these matchups. In TvZ Widow Mines and speed Medivacs both work extremely well against Zerg. While Zerg are essentially playing WoL TvZ with nerfed Infestors and buffed Ultras. In TvP the Mothership core has been extremely efficient in defending all types of Terran aggression while also helping directly in battles/ all ins with time warp and also in base race situations/ just being caught out of position with recall. While Terran, much like Zerg in TvZ, is essentially playing WoL TvP with faster medivacs that happen to get shut down quite frequently by photon overcharge.
So I guess the question is how to resolve these issues? Or, are Zerg and Terran players just not taking advantage of the new HoTS units properly yet?
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On August 12 2013 18:12 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 17:50 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 12 2013 17:25 Nebuchad wrote:On August 12 2013 17:16 gengka wrote:On August 12 2013 16:50 Entirety wrote:On August 12 2013 14:55 beg wrote:
now that we seem to talk about how imba terran is, i may try to ask the following question again.
why do you think terrans are extremely underrepresented in every GM league? i personally dont have an answer. and i never felt that terran was underpowered (i'm terran). so it confuses me. I would assume that is because Terran is really hard to play properly. Thus, average Terrans tend to struggle more while top-tier Korean Terrans make the race look utterly broken (see INnoVation vs. Z). Rabiator, I respect your opinion but talking about SC2's game design really derails this thread from its original purpose: the discussion of the game's current balance. This. Terran is just too mechanically demanding. We might be able to perform flawlessly sometimes and take out zergs and protosses during 200/200 lategames (man that gives maximum satisfaction!) but to consistently doing it is just too hard. I think unless we have a strict training regime like the korean teams, or else we just won't hit that level. You make it sound like we can reach korean level and perform flawlessly as zerg or protoss without a training regime... C'mon. Sure terran is hard, but the other races aren't easy either. Terran is the only race that is balanced around pick-&-drop micro of a tier 1 unit w/ berserk mechanic... Even Prtotoss's immortal or colossi drop play in 2010 was not compulsory. Back then the warp prism was made of thin paper and it hurts quite a bit more to lose 1 WP + colossi than a full medivac?
Your "paper" warp prism had 10 less health than a medivac and an upgrade that made it able to move a lot faster.
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On August 12 2013 21:59 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 18:12 Doublemint wrote:On August 12 2013 17:50 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 12 2013 17:25 Nebuchad wrote:On August 12 2013 17:16 gengka wrote:On August 12 2013 16:50 Entirety wrote:On August 12 2013 14:55 beg wrote:
now that we seem to talk about how imba terran is, i may try to ask the following question again.
why do you think terrans are extremely underrepresented in every GM league? i personally dont have an answer. and i never felt that terran was underpowered (i'm terran). so it confuses me. I would assume that is because Terran is really hard to play properly. Thus, average Terrans tend to struggle more while top-tier Korean Terrans make the race look utterly broken (see INnoVation vs. Z). Rabiator, I respect your opinion but talking about SC2's game design really derails this thread from its original purpose: the discussion of the game's current balance. This. Terran is just too mechanically demanding. We might be able to perform flawlessly sometimes and take out zergs and protosses during 200/200 lategames (man that gives maximum satisfaction!) but to consistently doing it is just too hard. I think unless we have a strict training regime like the korean teams, or else we just won't hit that level. You make it sound like we can reach korean level and perform flawlessly as zerg or protoss without a training regime... C'mon. Sure terran is hard, but the other races aren't easy either. Terran is the only race that is balanced around pick-&-drop micro of a tier 1 unit w/ berserk mechanic... Even Prtotoss's immortal or colossi drop play in 2010 was not compulsory. Back then the warp prism was made of thin paper and it hurts quite a bit more to lose 1 WP + colossi than a full medivac? Your "paper" warp prism had 10 less health than a medivac and an upgrade that made it able to move a lot faster.
It was made of paper, everyone called it the paperprism
A turret shoot it down so easy,
even with the upgrade and even with only 10less health than medivac,terran have turrets
protoss dont
you cant compare like that
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On August 12 2013 22:14 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 21:59 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 18:12 Doublemint wrote:On August 12 2013 17:50 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 12 2013 17:25 Nebuchad wrote:On August 12 2013 17:16 gengka wrote:On August 12 2013 16:50 Entirety wrote:On August 12 2013 14:55 beg wrote:
now that we seem to talk about how imba terran is, i may try to ask the following question again.
why do you think terrans are extremely underrepresented in every GM league? i personally dont have an answer. and i never felt that terran was underpowered (i'm terran). so it confuses me. I would assume that is because Terran is really hard to play properly. Thus, average Terrans tend to struggle more while top-tier Korean Terrans make the race look utterly broken (see INnoVation vs. Z). Rabiator, I respect your opinion but talking about SC2's game design really derails this thread from its original purpose: the discussion of the game's current balance. This. Terran is just too mechanically demanding. We might be able to perform flawlessly sometimes and take out zergs and protosses during 200/200 lategames (man that gives maximum satisfaction!) but to consistently doing it is just too hard. I think unless we have a strict training regime like the korean teams, or else we just won't hit that level. You make it sound like we can reach korean level and perform flawlessly as zerg or protoss without a training regime... C'mon. Sure terran is hard, but the other races aren't easy either. Terran is the only race that is balanced around pick-&-drop micro of a tier 1 unit w/ berserk mechanic... Even Prtotoss's immortal or colossi drop play in 2010 was not compulsory. Back then the warp prism was made of thin paper and it hurts quite a bit more to lose 1 WP + colossi than a full medivac? Your "paper" warp prism had 10 less health than a medivac and an upgrade that made it able to move a lot faster. It was made of paper, everyone called it the paperprism A turret shoot it down so easy, even with the upgrade and even with only 10less health than medivac,terran have turrets protoss dont you cant compare like that
You're right, if only Protoss had a static defense structure that could shoot air units...
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On August 12 2013 20:09 Fjodorov wrote:
How to you guys feel about removing the hive requirement for 3-3? It seems to me that every single TvZ I watch the zerg eventually dies because he/she is stuck on 2-2 when the terran gets 3-3. Terran only needs armory for 2-2 and from there you can get 3-3 instantly. The same goes for protoss and twilight council. I just feel zergs could use a little help in the 2-2 > 3-3 transition.
Only an Armory is a bit of a misnomer, it's still 150/100, requires a Factory and it needs an SCV building it for 65 seconds.
2-2 is more accessible for Zerg as Lair tech is never skipped unless it's a cheese or an all-in, where as Terran has to specifically build the Armory for it. (and other than Mech upgrades and Thors, it server no other purpose)
Terran may not have a requirement from 2-2 to 3-3, but I feel its easier for Zerg to get 2-2 so it balances back out.
You can always choose to get an earlier Hive if your goal is a fast 3-3.
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On August 12 2013 22:14 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 22:14 Foxxan wrote:On August 12 2013 21:59 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 18:12 Doublemint wrote:On August 12 2013 17:50 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 12 2013 17:25 Nebuchad wrote:On August 12 2013 17:16 gengka wrote:On August 12 2013 16:50 Entirety wrote:On August 12 2013 14:55 beg wrote:
now that we seem to talk about how imba terran is, i may try to ask the following question again.
why do you think terrans are extremely underrepresented in every GM league? i personally dont have an answer. and i never felt that terran was underpowered (i'm terran). so it confuses me. I would assume that is because Terran is really hard to play properly. Thus, average Terrans tend to struggle more while top-tier Korean Terrans make the race look utterly broken (see INnoVation vs. Z). Rabiator, I respect your opinion but talking about SC2's game design really derails this thread from its original purpose: the discussion of the game's current balance. This. Terran is just too mechanically demanding. We might be able to perform flawlessly sometimes and take out zergs and protosses during 200/200 lategames (man that gives maximum satisfaction!) but to consistently doing it is just too hard. I think unless we have a strict training regime like the korean teams, or else we just won't hit that level. You make it sound like we can reach korean level and perform flawlessly as zerg or protoss without a training regime... C'mon. Sure terran is hard, but the other races aren't easy either. Terran is the only race that is balanced around pick-&-drop micro of a tier 1 unit w/ berserk mechanic... Even Prtotoss's immortal or colossi drop play in 2010 was not compulsory. Back then the warp prism was made of thin paper and it hurts quite a bit more to lose 1 WP + colossi than a full medivac? Your "paper" warp prism had 10 less health than a medivac and an upgrade that made it able to move a lot faster. It was made of paper, everyone called it the paperprism A turret shoot it down so easy, even with the upgrade and even with only 10less health than medivac,terran have turrets protoss dont you cant compare like that You're right, if only Protoss had a static defense structure that could shoot air units...
here u go again, nice try
one viking blocked the warpprism pisseasy
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On August 12 2013 22:18 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 22:14 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 22:14 Foxxan wrote:On August 12 2013 21:59 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 18:12 Doublemint wrote:On August 12 2013 17:50 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 12 2013 17:25 Nebuchad wrote:On August 12 2013 17:16 gengka wrote:On August 12 2013 16:50 Entirety wrote:On August 12 2013 14:55 beg wrote:
now that we seem to talk about how imba terran is, i may try to ask the following question again.
why do you think terrans are extremely underrepresented in every GM league? i personally dont have an answer. and i never felt that terran was underpowered (i'm terran). so it confuses me. I would assume that is because Terran is really hard to play properly. Thus, average Terrans tend to struggle more while top-tier Korean Terrans make the race look utterly broken (see INnoVation vs. Z). Rabiator, I respect your opinion but talking about SC2's game design really derails this thread from its original purpose: the discussion of the game's current balance. This. Terran is just too mechanically demanding. We might be able to perform flawlessly sometimes and take out zergs and protosses during 200/200 lategames (man that gives maximum satisfaction!) but to consistently doing it is just too hard. I think unless we have a strict training regime like the korean teams, or else we just won't hit that level. You make it sound like we can reach korean level and perform flawlessly as zerg or protoss without a training regime... C'mon. Sure terran is hard, but the other races aren't easy either. Terran is the only race that is balanced around pick-&-drop micro of a tier 1 unit w/ berserk mechanic... Even Prtotoss's immortal or colossi drop play in 2010 was not compulsory. Back then the warp prism was made of thin paper and it hurts quite a bit more to lose 1 WP + colossi than a full medivac? Your "paper" warp prism had 10 less health than a medivac and an upgrade that made it able to move a lot faster. It was made of paper, everyone called it the paperprism A turret shoot it down so easy, even with the upgrade and even with only 10less health than medivac,terran have turrets protoss dont you cant compare like that You're right, if only Protoss had a static defense structure that could shoot air units... here u go again, nice try one viking blocked the warpprism pisseasy
Specifically placing an air to air unit to prevent drops prevents drops? Sounds good to me.
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On August 12 2013 22:20 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 22:18 Foxxan wrote:On August 12 2013 22:14 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 22:14 Foxxan wrote:On August 12 2013 21:59 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 18:12 Doublemint wrote:On August 12 2013 17:50 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 12 2013 17:25 Nebuchad wrote:On August 12 2013 17:16 gengka wrote:On August 12 2013 16:50 Entirety wrote:
[quote]
I would assume that is because Terran is really hard to play properly. Thus, average Terrans tend to struggle more while top-tier Korean Terrans make the race look utterly broken (see INnoVation vs. Z).
Rabiator, I respect your opinion but talking about SC2's game design really derails this thread from its original purpose: the discussion of the game's current balance. This. Terran is just too mechanically demanding. We might be able to perform flawlessly sometimes and take out zergs and protosses during 200/200 lategames (man that gives maximum satisfaction!) but to consistently doing it is just too hard. I think unless we have a strict training regime like the korean teams, or else we just won't hit that level. You make it sound like we can reach korean level and perform flawlessly as zerg or protoss without a training regime... C'mon. Sure terran is hard, but the other races aren't easy either. Terran is the only race that is balanced around pick-&-drop micro of a tier 1 unit w/ berserk mechanic... Even Prtotoss's immortal or colossi drop play in 2010 was not compulsory. Back then the warp prism was made of thin paper and it hurts quite a bit more to lose 1 WP + colossi than a full medivac? Your "paper" warp prism had 10 less health than a medivac and an upgrade that made it able to move a lot faster. It was made of paper, everyone called it the paperprism A turret shoot it down so easy, even with the upgrade and even with only 10less health than medivac,terran have turrets protoss dont you cant compare like that You're right, if only Protoss had a static defense structure that could shoot air units... here u go again, nice try one viking blocked the warpprism pisseasy Specifically placing an air to air unit to prevent drops prevents drops? Sounds good to me.
so you admit now they were paper? good
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Zergs will keep on losing when they refuse hardcore to step away from 20 minutes of muta ling bane. Zergs who understand this:
- Hyun
- TLO
- Scarlett.
Scarlett vs alive:
+ Show Spoiler +Alive had a 5k bank, maxed army. Scarlett had a 160 supply army, 500 bank. Scarlett won. How? By switching to hive tech in time, and by adding infestors. Infestors are still goddamn cost efficiënt, but zergs think that they are not good enough atm. Why? I don't know.. Zergs refused to switch to infestor style in WOL too. Stephano had to play it for almost a year before the korean zergs took it over. Everyone kept copying idra's ling bling muta style. I'm 100% sure that we will soon see more infestors and hive again, and I promise that zergs will do sick well.
Another composition is the roach ling bling, which is actually insanely hard to kill. Hyun and TLO know this, and that's the reason of their success.
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On August 12 2013 19:58 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 19:42 Elldar wrote:On August 12 2013 17:16 gengka wrote:On August 12 2013 16:50 Entirety wrote:On August 12 2013 14:55 beg wrote:
now that we seem to talk about how imba terran is, i may try to ask the following question again.
why do you think terrans are extremely underrepresented in every GM league? i personally dont have an answer. and i never felt that terran was underpowered (i'm terran). so it confuses me. I would assume that is because Terran is really hard to play properly. Thus, average Terrans tend to struggle more while top-tier Korean Terrans make the race look utterly broken (see INnoVation vs. Z). Rabiator, I respect your opinion but talking about SC2's game design really derails this thread from its original purpose: the discussion of the game's current balance. This. Terran is just too mechanically demanding. We might be able to perform flawlessly sometimes and take out zergs and protosses during 200/200 lategames (man that gives maximum satisfaction!) but to consistently doing it is just too hard. I think unless we have a strict training regime like the korean teams, or else we just won't hit that level. Sjow beat life in DreamHack and sjow got like 150 apm if I recall correctly so saying that terran is so much harder to play with is utterly bullshit. Why there is less terran in gm you must look at when the game ends and then you have something to go on probably terran will most certainly have an 80% win rate after 20 minutes since bio + mine is so easy late game unless zerg got a lead from the mid game. The difficulty to play has nothing to do with apm, I don't see any relation between the GM Terran population and the average length of the games, and Hive armies are still far superior to bio (see aLive vs Scarlett, WCS AM for instance).
Well, then what it is? Saying that it is harder to macro from barracks than to keep up with injects and building from larva does not seem right. Terran need to splitt from banelings but zerg need to split from wm. With low apm hitting everything perfectly will be harder if not impossible. So the statement that terran is so much harder is just wish thinking.
Evenso the races might not be equally difficult to say but to say that it is the reason for less terran being in gm is ridicolous assumption.
Life may or may not have thrown away that game because he played poorly, but his mechanics is still far superior than Sjow's. So no terran don't need better mechanics if you can compensate for it. Sjow is really smart player but his mechanics is lacking big time.
If you start mixing in marauders in time then the ultra production is less scary. And scanning after the greater spire timing to not be suprised by a brood lord switch. Besides hive armies is the only way to play evenly with a terran late game. Mostly because almost all hatch/lair tech units are so cost ineffecient for zerg, only banelings can be reliable.
The game lenght I would not be surprised if most of the terran loses is between 8-12 minutes when any ling/bane/roach all in would hit.
And that terran in general seem to have a really hard time against protoss nowadays.
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On August 12 2013 22:16 Thezzy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 20:09 Fjodorov wrote:
How to you guys feel about removing the hive requirement for 3-3? It seems to me that every single TvZ I watch the zerg eventually dies because he/she is stuck on 2-2 when the terran gets 3-3. Terran only needs armory for 2-2 and from there you can get 3-3 instantly. The same goes for protoss and twilight council. I just feel zergs could use a little help in the 2-2 > 3-3 transition. Only an Armory is a bit of a misnomer, it's still 150/100, requires a Factory and it needs an SCV building it for 65 seconds. 2-2 is more accessible for Zerg as Lair tech is never skipped unless it's a cheese or an all-in, where as Terran has to specifically build the Armory for it. (and other than Mech upgrades and Thors, it server no other purpose) Terran may not have a requirement from 2-2 to 3-3, but I feel its easier for Zerg to get 2-2 so it balances back out. You can always choose to get an earlier Hive if your goal is a fast 3-3.
It doesnt balance out at all, the reality is that zerg and terran usually hit their 2-2 at the same time but 3-3 is vastly delayed for the zerg. Rushing to hive is extremly dangerous and a huge gamble. even if you do so you still won't have 3-3 as fast as a terran.
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On August 12 2013 21:51 Mocking wrote:
Broodlord/infestor was quite OP and boring to see always ta same late game composition, i like them become a lot less predominant, but without them is so hard to zerg push terran back. Ultras die to easily to marauders, and fungals are even harder to land it than storms or any other cast hability, making the zerg late game quite weak, mid game they only hold and early is where they can win, but only if is using a surprise elemental.
I don't know what makes people think they're unusable now- did you see Scarlett using them to destroy aLive in WCS NA ro8?
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On August 12 2013 22:25 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 22:20 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 22:18 Foxxan wrote:On August 12 2013 22:14 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 22:14 Foxxan wrote:On August 12 2013 21:59 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 18:12 Doublemint wrote:On August 12 2013 17:50 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 12 2013 17:25 Nebuchad wrote:On August 12 2013 17:16 gengka wrote:
[quote]
This. Terran is just too mechanically demanding. We might be able to perform flawlessly sometimes and take out zergs and protosses during 200/200 lategames (man that gives maximum satisfaction!) but to consistently doing it is just too hard. I think unless we have a strict training regime like the korean teams, or else we just won't hit that level.
You make it sound like we can reach korean level and perform flawlessly as zerg or protoss without a training regime... C'mon. Sure terran is hard, but the other races aren't easy either. Terran is the only race that is balanced around pick-&-drop micro of a tier 1 unit w/ berserk mechanic... Even Prtotoss's immortal or colossi drop play in 2010 was not compulsory. Back then the warp prism was made of thin paper and it hurts quite a bit more to lose 1 WP + colossi than a full medivac? Your "paper" warp prism had 10 less health than a medivac and an upgrade that made it able to move a lot faster. It was made of paper, everyone called it the paperprism A turret shoot it down so easy, even with the upgrade and even with only 10less health than medivac,terran have turrets protoss dont you cant compare like that You're right, if only Protoss had a static defense structure that could shoot air units... here u go again, nice try one viking blocked the warpprism pisseasy Specifically placing an air to air unit to prevent drops prevents drops? Sounds good to me. so you admit now they were paper? good
If that's what you infer from that, you really need to work on your reading comprehension.
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On August 12 2013 22:20 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 22:18 Foxxan wrote:On August 12 2013 22:14 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 22:14 Foxxan wrote:On August 12 2013 21:59 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 18:12 Doublemint wrote:On August 12 2013 17:50 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 12 2013 17:25 Nebuchad wrote:On August 12 2013 17:16 gengka wrote:On August 12 2013 16:50 Entirety wrote:
[quote]
I would assume that is because Terran is really hard to play properly. Thus, average Terrans tend to struggle more while top-tier Korean Terrans make the race look utterly broken (see INnoVation vs. Z).
Rabiator, I respect your opinion but talking about SC2's game design really derails this thread from its original purpose: the discussion of the game's current balance. This. Terran is just too mechanically demanding. We might be able to perform flawlessly sometimes and take out zergs and protosses during 200/200 lategames (man that gives maximum satisfaction!) but to consistently doing it is just too hard. I think unless we have a strict training regime like the korean teams, or else we just won't hit that level. You make it sound like we can reach korean level and perform flawlessly as zerg or protoss without a training regime... C'mon. Sure terran is hard, but the other races aren't easy either. Terran is the only race that is balanced around pick-&-drop micro of a tier 1 unit w/ berserk mechanic... Even Prtotoss's immortal or colossi drop play in 2010 was not compulsory. Back then the warp prism was made of thin paper and it hurts quite a bit more to lose 1 WP + colossi than a full medivac? Your "paper" warp prism had 10 less health than a medivac and an upgrade that made it able to move a lot faster. It was made of paper, everyone called it the paperprism A turret shoot it down so easy, even with the upgrade and even with only 10less health than medivac,terran have turrets protoss dont you cant compare like that You're right, if only Protoss had a static defense structure that could shoot air units... here u go again, nice try one viking blocked the warpprism pisseasy Specifically placing an air to air unit to prevent drops prevents drops? Sounds good to me.
Come on, stop being so dense. There should be no one that things warp prisms were durable. A single marine would deter warp prisms, a single turret would kill it, a single viking killed it. Now consider the other way side: A single stalker would get dropped on and killed without killing anything, a single cannon would get dropped on and killed without killing anything, and nobody would build phoenixes in PvT because you would be so weak defensively (the MsC is what allows protoss to build phoenixes now).
Also, did you know that medivacs have armor, and warp prisms don't? That makes a huge difference.
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On August 12 2013 22:26 Snowbear wrote:Zergs will keep on losing when they refuse hardcore to step away from 20 minutes of muta ling bane. Zergs who understand this: - Hyun - TLO - Scarlett. Scarlett vs alive: + Show Spoiler +Alive had a 5k bank, maxed army. Scarlett had a 160 supply army, 500 bank. Scarlett won. How? By switching to hive tech in time, and by adding infestors. Infestors are still goddamn cost efficiënt, but zergs think that they are not good enough atm. Why? I don't know.. Zergs refused to switch to infestor style in WOL too. Stephano had to play it for almost a year before the korean zergs took it over. Everyone kept copying idra's ling bling muta style. I'm 100% sure that we will soon see more infestors and hive again, and I promise that zergs will do sick well. Another composition is the roach ling bling, which is actually insanely hard to kill. Hyun and TLO know this, and that's the reason of their success.
Yes, because Hyun and TLO are the only ones who play roach ling bling. The reason for their success is that they are insane good players, nothing else.
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On August 12 2013 22:40 convention wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 22:20 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 22:18 Foxxan wrote:On August 12 2013 22:14 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 22:14 Foxxan wrote:On August 12 2013 21:59 forsooth wrote:On August 12 2013 18:12 Doublemint wrote:On August 12 2013 17:50 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On August 12 2013 17:25 Nebuchad wrote:On August 12 2013 17:16 gengka wrote:
[quote]
This. Terran is just too mechanically demanding. We might be able to perform flawlessly sometimes and take out zergs and protosses during 200/200 lategames (man that gives maximum satisfaction!) but to consistently doing it is just too hard. I think unless we have a strict training regime like the korean teams, or else we just won't hit that level.
You make it sound like we can reach korean level and perform flawlessly as zerg or protoss without a training regime... C'mon. Sure terran is hard, but the other races aren't easy either. Terran is the only race that is balanced around pick-&-drop micro of a tier 1 unit w/ berserk mechanic... Even Prtotoss's immortal or colossi drop play in 2010 was not compulsory. Back then the warp prism was made of thin paper and it hurts quite a bit more to lose 1 WP + colossi than a full medivac? Your "paper" warp prism had 10 less health than a medivac and an upgrade that made it able to move a lot faster. It was made of paper, everyone called it the paperprism A turret shoot it down so easy, even with the upgrade and even with only 10less health than medivac,terran have turrets protoss dont you cant compare like that You're right, if only Protoss had a static defense structure that could shoot air units... here u go again, nice try one viking blocked the warpprism pisseasy Specifically placing an air to air unit to prevent drops prevents drops? Sounds good to me. Come on, stop being so dense. There should be no one that things warp prisms were durable. A single marine would deter warp prisms, a single turret would kill it, a single viking killed it. Now consider the other way side: A single stalker would get dropped on and killed without killing anything, a single cannon would get dropped on and killed without killing anything, and nobody would build phoenixes in PvT because you would be so weak defensively (the MsC is what allows protoss to build phoenixes now). Also, did you know that medivacs have armor, and warp prisms don't? That makes a huge difference.
A single marine? Are you actually trying to be serious? Also, single vikings and single turrets could deter medivacs as well in WoL, in case you've forgotten they didn't have boost back then.
I'm not saying warp prisms were durable, but all the complaining about how they were utterly useless paper planes was pretty silly.
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