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On August 02 2013 17:48 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 17:42 NarutO wrote:On August 02 2013 17:35 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:29 NarutO wrote:On August 02 2013 17:26 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:24 lichter wrote:On August 02 2013 17:21 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story. It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it. Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on For its price it is a fantastic tool I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context. How is this not one of the best abilities? If you get dropped, you can burrow and at least force a scan for Terran, against Protoss he would need to have an observere there so you can ultimately save your drones/queen which is crucial. You can burrow a ling at expansions and with a mere 4 supply you can make sure your opponent doesn't have a hidden base on most maps. In addition to that, you should have an overlord network to spot drops and you can use burrow lings to spot army movement in addition to creep. Its a great tool, gives huge information and if thats not one of the best abilities you have, I don't know what is. would you switch stim or storm for burrow? + Show Spoiler +burrow is good, but not the best. One is tool for gathering information and possibly saving something, the other for engaging.... they have nothing in common, so the switch out ability is stupid. Also how can you compare storm/stim to something that applies to every unit you have besides flyers? Also in comparison to Zerg, Protoss and Terran do not have super high unit counts and very low supply units (0,5 supply) so burrow would be not as good for Terran or Protoss. I didn't say its the best ability in game, but its worth researching and underused even though its very good. You should get more familiar with matters you're arguing about.
Enlighten me. As your statement stands, its worthless as it could be.
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On August 02 2013 17:49 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 17:48 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:42 NarutO wrote:On August 02 2013 17:35 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:29 NarutO wrote:On August 02 2013 17:26 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:24 lichter wrote:On August 02 2013 17:21 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story. It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it. Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on For its price it is a fantastic tool I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context. How is this not one of the best abilities? If you get dropped, you can burrow and at least force a scan for Terran, against Protoss he would need to have an observere there so you can ultimately save your drones/queen which is crucial. You can burrow a ling at expansions and with a mere 4 supply you can make sure your opponent doesn't have a hidden base on most maps. In addition to that, you should have an overlord network to spot drops and you can use burrow lings to spot army movement in addition to creep. Its a great tool, gives huge information and if thats not one of the best abilities you have, I don't know what is. would you switch stim or storm for burrow? + Show Spoiler +burrow is good, but not the best. One is tool for gathering information and possibly saving something, the other for engaging.... they have nothing in common, so the switch out ability is stupid. Also how can you compare storm/stim to something that applies to every unit you have besides flyers? Also in comparison to Zerg, Protoss and Terran do not have super high unit counts and very low supply units (0,5 supply) so burrow would be not as good for Terran or Protoss. I didn't say its the best ability in game, but its worth researching and underused even though its very good. You should get more familiar with matters you're arguing about. Enlighten me. As your statement stands, its worthless as it could be.
Do you consider burrow is one the best abilities in the game?
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On August 02 2013 17:46 F.O.A.D. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 17:43 NarutO wrote:On August 02 2013 17:40 F.O.A.D. wrote:On August 02 2013 17:24 lichter wrote:On August 02 2013 17:21 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story. It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it. Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on For its price it is a fantastic tool Not only is it a 'fantastic' tool, but in a 'standard' game, it is an absolute necessity in the early-mid game and thenceforth, and it is asking too much of Z to invest the 100/100 in the early-mid game when the upgrade becomes wholly relevant. Imo, the solution lies in reducing the cost to 75/75 or even 50/50. As it is, its not absolute necessity, otherwise we would see it in every game. 100/100 is completely reasonable. It is an absolute necessity, but we don't "see it in every game" because the 100/100 investment is asking too much. Get it?
Seems like you don't get it. If it would be an absolute necessity, 100/100 would not be too much of an investment. As you point it out, it sounds like you cannot win games without it but it simply increases your knowledge of what the opponent is doing and options to harass. Necessity would mean you cannot win without it. Stimpack is necessity for Terran to win regardless of the matchup.
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On August 02 2013 17:50 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 17:49 NarutO wrote:On August 02 2013 17:48 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:42 NarutO wrote:On August 02 2013 17:35 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:29 NarutO wrote:On August 02 2013 17:26 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:24 lichter wrote:On August 02 2013 17:21 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story. It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it. Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on For its price it is a fantastic tool I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context. How is this not one of the best abilities? If you get dropped, you can burrow and at least force a scan for Terran, against Protoss he would need to have an observere there so you can ultimately save your drones/queen which is crucial. You can burrow a ling at expansions and with a mere 4 supply you can make sure your opponent doesn't have a hidden base on most maps. In addition to that, you should have an overlord network to spot drops and you can use burrow lings to spot army movement in addition to creep. Its a great tool, gives huge information and if thats not one of the best abilities you have, I don't know what is. would you switch stim or storm for burrow? + Show Spoiler +burrow is good, but not the best. One is tool for gathering information and possibly saving something, the other for engaging.... they have nothing in common, so the switch out ability is stupid. Also how can you compare storm/stim to something that applies to every unit you have besides flyers? Also in comparison to Zerg, Protoss and Terran do not have super high unit counts and very low supply units (0,5 supply) so burrow would be not as good for Terran or Protoss. I didn't say its the best ability in game, but its worth researching and underused even though its very good. You should get more familiar with matters you're arguing about. Enlighten me. As your statement stands, its worthless as it could be. Do you consider burrow is one the best abilities in the game?
_One of the very best tools_ yes I do. If its used well (there are example games) it can save your ass. It can make your opponent uncomfortable etc.
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Why are you arguing about whether burrow is the best ability. It's pure verbal gymnastics and has nothing to do with the balance discussion. What you want to achieve through calling people out on saying it's "one of the best" is that burrow should be made cheaper. But no-one will be convinced to reduce burrow cost because "it is not as good as stim or storm".
If you make it even cheaper, you're going to get a ton of ridiculously early burrow rushes, taking away the choice of using it. Everyone would just get it, just like the queens were not a choice but something every Z did because it had no draw-backs. That's not what we want from SC2, you're supposed to have to choose where you sink your resources.
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Northern Ireland26032 Posts
Burrow isn't even comparable to stim/storm anyway, but stuff like the building armour upgrade.
Burrowed units spotting moveouts and stuff is also particularly useful considering Zerg's reactive/burst production design.
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On August 02 2013 17:52 Ghanburighan wrote:
Why are you arguing about whether burrow is the best ability. It's pure verbal gymnastics and has nothing to do with the balance discussion. What you want to achieve through calling people out on saying it's "one of the best" is that burrow should be made cheaper. But no-one will be convinced to reduce burrow cost because "it is not as good as stim or storm".
If you make it even cheaper, you're going to get a ton of ridiculously early burrow rushes, taking away the choice of using it. Everyone would just get it, just like the queens were not a choice but something every Z did because it had no draw-backs. That's not what we want from SC2, you're supposed to have to choose where you sink your resources.
Was that directed towards me? Because I sure said I don't want to make it cheaper.
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On August 02 2013 17:55 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 17:52 Ghanburighan wrote:
Why are you arguing about whether burrow is the best ability. It's pure verbal gymnastics and has nothing to do with the balance discussion. What you want to achieve through calling people out on saying it's "one of the best" is that burrow should be made cheaper. But no-one will be convinced to reduce burrow cost because "it is not as good as stim or storm".
If you make it even cheaper, you're going to get a ton of ridiculously early burrow rushes, taking away the choice of using it. Everyone would just get it, just like the queens were not a choice but something every Z did because it had no draw-backs. That's not what we want from SC2, you're supposed to have to choose where you sink your resources. Was that directed towards me? Because I sure said I don't want to make it cheaper.
No no, Saddaromma who argued against you and then said that it should be cheaper.
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On August 02 2013 17:51 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 17:50 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:49 NarutO wrote:On August 02 2013 17:48 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:42 NarutO wrote:On August 02 2013 17:35 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:29 NarutO wrote:On August 02 2013 17:26 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:24 lichter wrote:On August 02 2013 17:21 saddaromma wrote:
[quote]
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story. It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it. Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on For its price it is a fantastic tool I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context. How is this not one of the best abilities? If you get dropped, you can burrow and at least force a scan for Terran, against Protoss he would need to have an observere there so you can ultimately save your drones/queen which is crucial. You can burrow a ling at expansions and with a mere 4 supply you can make sure your opponent doesn't have a hidden base on most maps. In addition to that, you should have an overlord network to spot drops and you can use burrow lings to spot army movement in addition to creep. Its a great tool, gives huge information and if thats not one of the best abilities you have, I don't know what is. would you switch stim or storm for burrow? + Show Spoiler +burrow is good, but not the best. One is tool for gathering information and possibly saving something, the other for engaging.... they have nothing in common, so the switch out ability is stupid. Also how can you compare storm/stim to something that applies to every unit you have besides flyers? Also in comparison to Zerg, Protoss and Terran do not have super high unit counts and very low supply units (0,5 supply) so burrow would be not as good for Terran or Protoss. I didn't say its the best ability in game, but its worth researching and underused even though its very good. You should get more familiar with matters you're arguing about. Enlighten me. As your statement stands, its worthless as it could be. Do you consider burrow is one the best abilities in the game? _One of the very best tools_ yes I do. If its used well (there are example games) it can save your ass. It can make your opponent uncomfortable etc.
Then by your logic, 90% of abilites in the game are the best in the game? Smth like, supply drop, snipe, building lift up. These abilities are all important, but I'm not sure if I could define them as one of the best.
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On August 02 2013 17:51 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 17:46 F.O.A.D. wrote:On August 02 2013 17:43 NarutO wrote:On August 02 2013 17:40 F.O.A.D. wrote:On August 02 2013 17:24 lichter wrote:On August 02 2013 17:21 saddaromma wrote:On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story. It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it. Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on For its price it is a fantastic tool Not only is it a 'fantastic' tool, but in a 'standard' game, it is an absolute necessity in the early-mid game and thenceforth, and it is asking too much of Z to invest the 100/100 in the early-mid game when the upgrade becomes wholly relevant. Imo, the solution lies in reducing the cost to 75/75 or even 50/50. As it is, its not absolute necessity, otherwise we would see it in every game. 100/100 is completely reasonable. It is an absolute necessity, but we don't "see it in every game" because the 100/100 investment is asking too much. Get it? Seems like you don't get it. If it would be an absolute necessity, 100/100 would not be too much of an investment. As you point it out, it sounds like you cannot win games without it but it simply increases your knowledge of what the opponent is doing and options to harass. Necessity would mean you cannot win without it. Stimpack is necessity for Terran to win regardless of the matchup.
I'll concede to the technicality of Burrow not being absolutely necessary to win. But it is nigh an absolute necessity. In the ZvT macro/standard game, a reduction in the cost of Burrow could help to restore balance; I also think such a buff would benefit the ZvP mu balance-wise.
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I disagree with the costchanges as well, but I also have to say burrow is not as amazing as some of you make it sound. Like, there is little difference between a spotting with a zergling or a burrowed spotting zergling. Or an overlord or a changeling. Or just having good creep spread.
Then all that stuff about burrowing units to safe them has the downside of the other races always needing detection anyways due to creep, so it's often not more than forcing a scan. Which is nice, but not an amazing thing that really influences the game a lot. It's particularily annoying, because the one tool where burrow is really amazing - banelings - gets countered by good creepspread. As the moment you spread creep over your banelings, a terran will scan for the tumor and get the banelings for free, so you can often not place the banelings too defensively.
So don't get me wrong. Burrow is a great tool. But is good burrow play gamechanging? It's mostly an annoyiance with the outcome of trading 100/100 resources for a little more resources an opponent has to spent on detection, and delaying the one or other expansion.
Edit: Also Infestors can be amazing with burrow.
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On August 02 2013 13:00 ChristianS wrote:
Statistics have their place. If nothing else, if you see 50% win rates across the board, you probably wouldn't want to introduce a major buff or nerf without buffing or nerfing something else to offset that, right? (e.g. the infamous queen patch)
But obviously you still look at gameplay. If gameplay is really boring for one reason or another, you might want to make changes even if the game is balanced (e.g. infestor buff, ghost cost change)
Once again ... you MUST look at the games too, because COINFLIP GAMES ARE 50/50 and thus perfectly balanced. Statistics are worth far less than everyone makes them, because we learned in BW that maps can and will have an impact too.
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On August 02 2013 18:03 Big J wrote:
I disagree with the costchanges as well, but I also have to say burrow is not as amazing as some of you make it sound. Like, there is little difference between a spotting with a zergling or a burrowed spotting zergling. Or an overlord or a changeling. Or just having good creep spread.
Then all that stuff about burrowing units to safe them has the downside of the other races always needing detection anyways due to creep, so it's often not more than forcing a scan. Which is nice, but not an amazing thing that really influences the game a lot. It's particularily annoying, because the one tool where burrow is really amazing - banelings - gets countered by good creepspread. As the moment you spread creep over your banelings, a terran will scan for the tumor and get the banelings for free, so you can often not place the banelings too defensively.
So don't get me wrong. Burrow is a great tool. But is good burrow play gamechanging? It's mostly an annoyiance with the outcome of trading 100/100 resources for a little more resources an opponent has to spent on detection, and delaying the one or other expansion.
Edit: Also Infestors can be amazing with burrow.
The power lies within the opponent not knowing he's spotted.
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What annoys me the most is how people react when you suggest something in this thread. Even something minor like making cost 50 gas less. You'll get flamed for saying stupidest thing in the world and how it will break the game.
I agree some suggestions go overboard, and some are bad (like queen buff in WoL).
But, Blizzard made some drastic changes to helbats and banshees, it didn't break the game and didn't affect balance at all. So whats wrong with decreasing cost of burrow? Yeah, it might affect openings slightly. But imagine how much cool things progamers could do. I'm more than sure its worth the risk.
After all, 50 min/50 gas is two more banelings, its not end of the world.
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On August 02 2013 18:18 saddaromma wrote:
What annoys me the most is how people react when you suggest something in this thread. Even something minor like making cost 50 gas less. You'll get flamed for saying stupidest thing in the world and how it will break the game.
I agree some suggestions go overboard, and some are bad (like queen buff in WoL).
But, Blizzard made some drastic changes to helbats and banshees, it didn't break the game and didn't affect balance at all. So whats wrong with decreasing cost of burrow? Yeah, it might affect openings slightly. But imagine how much cool things progamers could do. I'm more than sure its worth the risk.
After all, 50 min/50 gas is two more banelings, its not end of the world.
Thats exactly why we don't feel there's the need of decreasing costs. Its not a big investment as mentioned. And you just proofed that point again by pointing out its just two more banelings.
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On August 02 2013 18:18 saddaromma wrote:
What annoys me the most is how people react when you suggest something in this thread. Even something minor like making cost 50 gas less. You'll get flamed for saying stupidest thing in the world and how it will break the game.
I agree some suggestions go overboard, and some are bad (like queen buff in WoL).
But, Blizzard made some drastic changes to helbats and banshees, it didn't break the game and didn't affect balance at all. So whats wrong with decreasing cost of burrow? Yeah, it might affect openings slightly. But imagine how much cool things progamers could do. I'm more than sure its worth the risk.
After all, 50 min/50 gas is two more banelings, its not end of the world.
First ad hominem, then beg for mercy. Great argumentation tactics, bud.
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On August 02 2013 18:18 saddaromma wrote:
What annoys me the most is how people react when you suggest something in this thread. Even something minor like making cost 50 gas less. You'll get flamed for saying stupidest thing in the world and how it will break the game.
I agree some suggestions go overboard, and some are bad (like queen buff in WoL).
But, Blizzard made some drastic changes to helbats and banshees, it didn't break the game and didn't affect balance at all. So whats wrong with decreasing cost of burrow? Yeah, it might affect openings slightly. But imagine how much cool things progamers could do. I'm more than sure its worth the risk.
After all, 50 min/50 gas is two more banelings, its not end of the world.
The question is, why buff something that is obviously pretty good already?
Why not suggest something like buffing/changing tunneling claws instead?
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On August 02 2013 18:20 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 18:18 saddaromma wrote:
What annoys me the most is how people react when you suggest something in this thread. Even something minor like making cost 50 gas less. You'll get flamed for saying stupidest thing in the world and how it will break the game.
I agree some suggestions go overboard, and some are bad (like queen buff in WoL).
But, Blizzard made some drastic changes to helbats and banshees, it didn't break the game and didn't affect balance at all. So whats wrong with decreasing cost of burrow? Yeah, it might affect openings slightly. But imagine how much cool things progamers could do. I'm more than sure its worth the risk.
After all, 50 min/50 gas is two more banelings, its not end of the world. Thats exactly why we don't feel there's the need of decreasing costs. Its not a big investment as mentioned. And you just proofed that point again by pointing out its just two more banelings.
Most of online games balance the game by overbuffing something underused (or new), so that people would start using it. Otherwise, they'll never touch 'it'. If it turns out overpowered, they'll balance it. There is nothing wrong with it as long as it is for good intentions, like diversifying the game or adding more fun.
e.g. decreasing cost of burrow. We can't know if its gonna be op or not until people start using it, but we know that people are not willing to use it now, so why not to experiment with it?
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On August 02 2013 18:20 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 18:18 saddaromma wrote:
What annoys me the most is how people react when you suggest something in this thread. Even something minor like making cost 50 gas less. You'll get flamed for saying stupidest thing in the world and how it will break the game.
I agree some suggestions go overboard, and some are bad (like queen buff in WoL).
But, Blizzard made some drastic changes to helbats and banshees, it didn't break the game and didn't affect balance at all. So whats wrong with decreasing cost of burrow? Yeah, it might affect openings slightly. But imagine how much cool things progamers could do. I'm more than sure its worth the risk.
After all, 50 min/50 gas is two more banelings, its not end of the world. First ad hominem, then beg for mercy. Great argumentation tactics, bud.
WHAT?!
On August 02 2013 18:20 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 18:18 saddaromma wrote:
What annoys me the most is how people react when you suggest something in this thread. Even something minor like making cost 50 gas less. You'll get flamed for saying stupidest thing in the world and how it will break the game.
I agree some suggestions go overboard, and some are bad (like queen buff in WoL).
But, Blizzard made some drastic changes to helbats and banshees, it didn't break the game and didn't affect balance at all. So whats wrong with decreasing cost of burrow? Yeah, it might affect openings slightly. But imagine how much cool things progamers could do. I'm more than sure its worth the risk.
After all, 50 min/50 gas is two more banelings, its not end of the world. The question is, why buff something that is obviously pretty good already? Why not suggest something like buffing/changing tunneling claws instead?
remember the first battle report of sc2 where zerg was burrow microing roaches (without tunneling claws)? That was so much more exciting than today's 4-range a-move roaches.
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On August 02 2013 18:30 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 18:20 NarutO wrote:On August 02 2013 18:18 saddaromma wrote:
What annoys me the most is how people react when you suggest something in this thread. Even something minor like making cost 50 gas less. You'll get flamed for saying stupidest thing in the world and how it will break the game.
I agree some suggestions go overboard, and some are bad (like queen buff in WoL).
But, Blizzard made some drastic changes to helbats and banshees, it didn't break the game and didn't affect balance at all. So whats wrong with decreasing cost of burrow? Yeah, it might affect openings slightly. But imagine how much cool things progamers could do. I'm more than sure its worth the risk.
After all, 50 min/50 gas is two more banelings, its not end of the world. Thats exactly why we don't feel there's the need of decreasing costs. Its not a big investment as mentioned. And you just proofed that point again by pointing out its just two more banelings. Most of online games balance the game by overbuffing something underused (or new), so that people would start using it. Otherwise, they'll never touch 'it'. If it turns out overpowered, they'll balance it. There is nothing wrong with it as long as it is for good intentions, like diversifying the game or adding more fun. e.g. decreasing cost of burrow. We can't know if its gonna be op or not until people start using it, but we know that people are not willing to use it now, so why not to experiment with it?
people are using it. Just not as much as they used too, because infestors aren't a huge part of the metgagame anymore.
It would be cool if they'd buff roach underground movement to a similar speed as their overground movement... though it may be too good vs FFs. Which ain't that bad imo, now that Protoss doesn't need to rely on midgame FF rushes anymore to get 50% winrate.
On August 02 2013 18:31 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 18:20 Ghanburighan wrote:On August 02 2013 18:18 saddaromma wrote:
What annoys me the most is how people react when you suggest something in this thread. Even something minor like making cost 50 gas less. You'll get flamed for saying stupidest thing in the world and how it will break the game.
I agree some suggestions go overboard, and some are bad (like queen buff in WoL).
But, Blizzard made some drastic changes to helbats and banshees, it didn't break the game and didn't affect balance at all. So whats wrong with decreasing cost of burrow? Yeah, it might affect openings slightly. But imagine how much cool things progamers could do. I'm more than sure its worth the risk.
After all, 50 min/50 gas is two more banelings, its not end of the world. First ad hominem, then beg for mercy. Great argumentation tactics, bud. WHAT?! Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 18:20 Big J wrote:On August 02 2013 18:18 saddaromma wrote:
What annoys me the most is how people react when you suggest something in this thread. Even something minor like making cost 50 gas less. You'll get flamed for saying stupidest thing in the world and how it will break the game.
I agree some suggestions go overboard, and some are bad (like queen buff in WoL).
But, Blizzard made some drastic changes to helbats and banshees, it didn't break the game and didn't affect balance at all. So whats wrong with decreasing cost of burrow? Yeah, it might affect openings slightly. But imagine how much cool things progamers could do. I'm more than sure its worth the risk.
After all, 50 min/50 gas is two more banelings, its not end of the world. The question is, why buff something that is obviously pretty good already? Why not suggest something like buffing/changing tunneling claws instead? remember the first battle report of sc2 where zerg was burrow microing roaches (without tunneling claws)? That was so much more exciting than today's 4-range a-move roaches.
roaches had pretty insane underground regeneration back then. +/- 50/50 on burrow won't bring that back.
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