EPTDesignated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 645
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Mattumsfox
United States233 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On August 02 2013 12:18 Mattumsfox wrote: What statistics are people using to justify nerfs or buffs? I'm generally curious. Whatever "proves" their point ... but honestly statistics are mostly useless, because the usual - and extra stupid - "high level tournament results" one doesnt have a large enough sample size. Buffs and nerfs are things which are specific to a unit and as a result you have to look at the gameplay itself and not the statistics. | ||
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ChristianS
United States3277 Posts
But obviously you still look at gameplay. If gameplay is really boring for one reason or another, you might want to make changes even if the game is balanced (e.g. infestor buff, ghost cost change) | ||
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F.O.A.D.
Canada100 Posts
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On August 02 2013 13:33 F.O.A.D. wrote: Z needs buff. At the very least, would like to see cheaper Burrow (75/75 or even 50/50); something done with Nydus to render it more feasible (more HP, faster build-time, faster unit load/unload rate, maybe something interesting like creep spread or an attack); Hydra buff. Perhaps something done with SHs to render them less "turtley". I disagree with all of these. Burrow is one of the best abilities in the game, and arguably it's current price is on the lenient side for what it offers; something like Nydus which allows you to potentially win the game instantly should be challenging to pull off; Hydras have ludicrously high DPS so I don't see how you would buff them, and lastly I think Swarmhosts are seeing both defensive and offensive play. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On August 02 2013 13:00 ChristianS wrote: Statistics have their place. If nothing else, if you see 50% win rates across the board, you probably wouldn't want to introduce a major buff or nerf without buffing or nerfing something else to offset that, right? (e.g. the infamous queen patch) But obviously you still look at gameplay. If gameplay is really boring for one reason or another, you might want to make changes even if the game is balanced (e.g. infestor buff, ghost cost change) IMHO, the correct answer is all of them. For example, Hellbats had insane powers for their cost to both meet their role as mid-late game counters to mass 3/3 tier 1 remax and as a cost efficient wall for the cost inefficient factory units, siege tank and Thor. If it weren't for 18+12 vs light and bio flag, they weren't going to convince pros and their followers to switch to the more reliable AND mobile MMMVG or MMMVH. Statistics always come after the hypothesis, never the basis. Unless we want the complete mess that was end-of-life WoL... Shudder | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
in broodwar Made me miss broodwar gameplay What sc2 need is a lot of things, there is a reason we lose viewers and audience | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On August 02 2013 13:56 Foxxan wrote: i just saw flash vs fantasy in teamleague versus one another in broodwar Made me miss broodwar gameplay What sc2 need is a lot of things, there is a reason we lose viewers and audience I miss BW too.  Siege lines that went on forever. Backstabs and nukes forcing an unseige and the crowd going wild... Those were the days. ... | ||
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keglu
Poland485 Posts
On August 02 2013 05:56 MstrJinbo wrote: Jeez, wouldn't kill you to stop acting like an annoying child when people disagree with you. How can annoying child stop acting like annoying child. Fortunately he is banned now. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On August 02 2013 13:59 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: I miss BW too. Siege lines that went on forever. Backstabs and nukes forcing an unseige and the crowd going wild... Those were the days. ... nukes in bw? | ||
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IamBach
United States1059 Posts
yeah nukes were in bw | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 02 2013 11:27 Daralii wrote: Someone didn't see MVP's ghost/mech TvZ back before the snipe nerf. :p well, snipe is and was always a stupid ability as it just kills stuff if you are fast enough without any way for the opponent to react. still that doesnt mean ghosts shouldnt be useful against zerg at all. I'd be interestes in them changing their +vs light in a +vs bio for example. this would basically not touch PvT at all but help ghosts vs zerg. | ||
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Rhaegal
United States678 Posts
On August 02 2013 16:55 Big J wrote: well, snipe is and was always a stupid ability as it just kills stuff if you are fast enough without any way for the opponent to react. still that doesnt mean ghosts shouldnt be useful against zerg at all. I'd be interestes in them changing their +vs light in a +vs bio for example. this would basically not touch PvT at all but help ghosts vs zerg. Their +light is huge vs zealots. Changing it to +bio would be a huge nerf vs P. | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2142 Posts
On August 02 2013 16:59 Rhaegal wrote: Their +light is huge vs zealots. Changing it to +bio would be a huge nerf vs P. Zealots are also biological. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On August 02 2013 16:59 Rhaegal wrote: Their +light is huge vs zealots. Changing it to +bio would be a huge nerf vs P. Zealots are light biological | ||
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Rhaegal
United States678 Posts
lol wtf... ok then.. what part of them is biological? edit: Just read up on their lore. I always assumed they were robots. Damn, I'm dumb XD | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
and zealots can be healed with medivacs (in team games ofc). | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On August 02 2013 16:55 Big J wrote: well, snipe is and was always a stupid ability as it just kills stuff if you are fast enough without any way for the opponent to react. still that doesnt mean ghosts shouldnt be useful against zerg at all. I'd be interestes in them changing their +vs light in a +vs bio for example. this would basically not touch PvT at all but help ghosts vs zerg. The issue with snipe is it's never been a really versatile ability for ages now. It was initially used in creative rushes in the 1 base era, purely against Templars for a bit and once Zerg were getting tier 3 armies with regularity, it destroyed them far too efficiently. I dont know what I'd do with it tbh, maybe swap it out for something else one day. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On August 02 2013 13:46 DemigodcelpH wrote: I disagree with all of these. Burrow is one of the best abilities in the game, and arguably it's current price is on the lenient side for what it offers; something like Nydus which allows you to potentially win the game instantly should be challenging to pull off; Hydras have ludicrously high DPS so I don't see how you would buff them, and lastly I think Swarmhosts are seeing both defensive and offensive play. Thats one of the best jokes in this page. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
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