On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
I actually think swapping it for 'lockdown' would be cool. It gives Terran the option to choose. Do you want to disable colossi AoE and go lower on vikings, or do you want to disable the HTs via EMP. The problem is, that if you hit mass ghosts there might be the chance of locking down all colossi + stalkers t_T (and still emp'ing)
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
I dont know how anyone could argue against it, but there are people telling Terran doesn't need ghost in lategame TvP so... I have lost faith long time ago.
On August 02 2013 13:33 F.O.A.D. wrote: Z needs buff. At the very least, would like to see cheaper Burrow (75/75 or even 50/50); something done with Nydus to render it more feasible (more HP, faster build-time, faster unit load/unload rate, maybe something interesting like creep spread or an attack); Hydra buff. Perhaps something done with SHs to render them less "turtley".
I disagree with all of these. Burrow is one of the best abilities in the game, and arguably it's current price is on the lenient side for what it offers; something like Nydus which allows you to potentially win the game instantly should be challenging to pull off; Hydras have ludicrously high DPS so I don't see how you would buff them, and lastly I think Swarmhosts are seeing both defensive and offensive play.
Thats one of the best jokes in this page.
My precise sentiments when I read that, too. His response wasn't even worth a reply.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context.
Well not every ability should be 'one of the best'. It's a subtle ability that really shines in the hands of the best players.
Though I guess a research time buff could be useful. Hard to justify researching early when it delays your lair timing.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context.
How is this not one of the best abilities? If you get dropped, you can burrow and at least force a scan for Terran, against Protoss he would need to have an observere there so you can ultimately save your drones/queen which is crucial.
You can burrow a ling at expansions and with a mere 4 supply you can make sure your opponent doesn't have a hidden base on most maps. In addition to that, you should have an overlord network to spot drops and you can use burrow lings to spot army movement in addition to creep.
Its a great tool, gives huge information and if thats not one of the best abilities you have, I don't know what is.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context.
How is this not one of the best abilities? If you get dropped, you can burrow and at least force a scan for Terran, against Protoss he would need to have an observere there so you can ultimately save your drones/queen which is crucial.
You can burrow a ling at expansions and with a mere 4 supply you can make sure your opponent doesn't have a hidden base on most maps. In addition to that, you should have an overlord network to spot drops and you can use burrow lings to spot army movement in addition to creep.
Its a great tool, gives huge information and if thats not one of the best abilities you have, I don't know what is.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context.
How is this not one of the best abilities? If you get dropped, you can burrow and at least force a scan for Terran, against Protoss he would need to have an observere there so you can ultimately save your drones/queen which is crucial.
You can burrow a ling at expansions and with a mere 4 supply you can make sure your opponent doesn't have a hidden base on most maps. In addition to that, you should have an overlord network to spot drops and you can use burrow lings to spot army movement in addition to creep.
Its a great tool, gives huge information and if thats not one of the best abilities you have, I don't know what is.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context.
How is this not one of the best abilities? If you get dropped, you can burrow and at least force a scan for Terran, against Protoss he would need to have an observere there so you can ultimately save your drones/queen which is crucial.
You can burrow a ling at expansions and with a mere 4 supply you can make sure your opponent doesn't have a hidden base on most maps. In addition to that, you should have an overlord network to spot drops and you can use burrow lings to spot army movement in addition to creep.
Its a great tool, gives huge information and if thats not one of the best abilities you have, I don't know what is.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
Not only is it a 'fantastic' tool, but in a 'standard' game, it is an absolute necessity in the early-mid game and thenceforth, and it is asking too much of Z to invest the 100/100 in the early-mid game when the upgrade becomes wholly relevant. Imo, the solution lies in reducing the cost to 75/75 or even 50/50.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context.
How is this not one of the best abilities? If you get dropped, you can burrow and at least force a scan for Terran, against Protoss he would need to have an observere there so you can ultimately save your drones/queen which is crucial.
You can burrow a ling at expansions and with a mere 4 supply you can make sure your opponent doesn't have a hidden base on most maps. In addition to that, you should have an overlord network to spot drops and you can use burrow lings to spot army movement in addition to creep.
Its a great tool, gives huge information and if thats not one of the best abilities you have, I don't know what is.
One is tool for gathering information and possibly saving something, the other for engaging.... they have nothing in common, so the switch out ability is stupid. Also how can you compare storm/stim to something that applies to every unit you have besides flyers? Also in comparison to Zerg, Protoss and Terran do not have super high unit counts and very low supply units (0,5 supply) so burrow would be not as good for Terran or Protoss.
I didn't say its the best ability in game, but its worth researching and underused even though its very good.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
Not only is it a 'fantastic' tool, but in a 'standard' game, it is an absolute necessity in the early-mid game and thenceforth, and it is asking too much of Z to invest the 100/100 in the early-mid game when the upgrade becomes wholly relevant. Imo, the solution lies in reducing the cost to 75/75 or even 50/50.
As it is, its not absolute necessity, otherwise we would see it in every game. 100/100 is completely reasonable.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context.
How is this not one of the best abilities? If you get dropped, you can burrow and at least force a scan for Terran, against Protoss he would need to have an observere there so you can ultimately save your drones/queen which is crucial.
You can burrow a ling at expansions and with a mere 4 supply you can make sure your opponent doesn't have a hidden base on most maps. In addition to that, you should have an overlord network to spot drops and you can use burrow lings to spot army movement in addition to creep.
Its a great tool, gives huge information and if thats not one of the best abilities you have, I don't know what is.
yes the 'switch' argument is ridiculous since the abilities are nothing in common
This discussion started by someone saying "Burrow is one of the best abilities in the game" and I told its a good joke, since stim/storm/cloak/chrono boost/scan/larva inject are much better abilities. Everyone knows burrow is good, but surely not the best. I'm not telling burrow is useless ffs.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
Not only is it a 'fantastic' tool, but in a 'standard' game, it is an absolute necessity in the early-mid game and thenceforth, and it is asking too much of Z to invest the 100/100 in the early-mid game when the upgrade becomes wholly relevant. Imo, the solution lies in reducing the cost to 75/75 or even 50/50.
As it is, its not absolute necessity, otherwise we would see it in every game. 100/100 is completely reasonable.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
Not only is it a 'fantastic' tool, but in a 'standard' game, it is an absolute necessity in the early-mid game and thenceforth, and it is asking too much of Z to invest the 100/100 in the early-mid game when the upgrade becomes wholly relevant. Imo, the solution lies in reducing the cost to 75/75 or even 50/50.
As it is, its not absolute necessity, otherwise we would see it in every game. 100/100 is completely reasonable.
It is an absolute necessity, but we don't "see it in every game" because the 100/100 investment is asking too much. Get it?
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context.
How is this not one of the best abilities? If you get dropped, you can burrow and at least force a scan for Terran, against Protoss he would need to have an observere there so you can ultimately save your drones/queen which is crucial.
You can burrow a ling at expansions and with a mere 4 supply you can make sure your opponent doesn't have a hidden base on most maps. In addition to that, you should have an overlord network to spot drops and you can use burrow lings to spot army movement in addition to creep.
Its a great tool, gives huge information and if thats not one of the best abilities you have, I don't know what is.
yes the 'switch' argument is ridiculous since the abilities are nothing in common
My best friend genuinely spent a good few hours reworking the Collosus into some ridiculous unit that had about 4 adjustable settings and various configurations, and it's head sort of slid down and it's legs altered position in all 4 (to make them distinguishable for other players). Lacking art style he also compared each of the settings to an animal of some kind, giraffe for it's standard one, an armadillo curled up and spinning around for it's 'defensive space-controlling mode'.
Omg I genuinely wish I could find it, I think I lost it when I deleted my old Facebook, it's fucking amazing.
On August 02 2013 17:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Burrow's pretty good, not flashy but has a lot of uses. Lings for spotting, blocking expands, burrowed banes, retreating high value units like Infestors etc.
He was talking about static burrow, not moving under ground, which is a whole different story.
It's an upgrade that affects all your ground units. The only 'ability' upgrade like it.
Burrowed baneling mines Burrowed lings for scouting / blocking buildings Burrowing queens to avoid death Burrowing drones from harass Burrowing lings/roaches during an attack to use them later on
For its price it is a fantastic tool
I'm not saying its bad. But definitely not one of the best abilities. Pls, don't lose the context.
How is this not one of the best abilities? If you get dropped, you can burrow and at least force a scan for Terran, against Protoss he would need to have an observere there so you can ultimately save your drones/queen which is crucial.
You can burrow a ling at expansions and with a mere 4 supply you can make sure your opponent doesn't have a hidden base on most maps. In addition to that, you should have an overlord network to spot drops and you can use burrow lings to spot army movement in addition to creep.
Its a great tool, gives huge information and if thats not one of the best abilities you have, I don't know what is.
One is tool for gathering information and possibly saving something, the other for engaging.... they have nothing in common, so the switch out ability is stupid. Also how can you compare storm/stim to something that applies to every unit you have besides flyers? Also in comparison to Zerg, Protoss and Terran do not have super high unit counts and very low supply units (0,5 supply) so burrow would be not as good for Terran or Protoss.
I didn't say its the best ability in game, but its worth researching and underused even though its very good.
You should get more familiar with matters you're arguing about.
2
EPT
