|
Can we buff the speed at which infested terrans hatch. The spell is already quite worthless at least make them remotely useful in some capacity. I see nothing wrong with a three second hatch time.
|
On July 22 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 03:30 GhostOwl wrote:On July 21 2013 02:44 Snowbear wrote:On July 21 2013 02:19 GhostOwl wrote:
Are we really complaining about a balance about Protoss in TvP? Really??? Terran is currently the strongest race in both matchups, TvP is also way more balanced than TvZ at the moment..Poor Zergs..what a unfair matchup. Thank god I play Terran now. TvP: things changed in hots: - mine - mscore + nexus canon - speedvac - hellbat - Dark shrine - Oracle - stronger voidray - reapers - faster prism Hellbat: nerfed, useless in tvp. Mine: pure joke in tvp, if you don't know how to defend minedrops, then you are not highmaster or grandmaster. So for terran there is the reaper and the speedvac. For protoss the mscore, DT's, oracle's and stronger voidrays. The mscore lets protoss play more greedy = more eco = more units. So we got WOL tvp, but with protoss 1) being safe against any allin (hi mscore), 2) being more greedy (hi mscore), 3) having more and stronger allins (hi mscore, dt's, oracles, speedprism and voidrays), 4) having a sick strong harass unit (oracle) The early and midgame are completely shut down for terran thanks to the nexus canon. Meanwhile the protoss can play more greedy. How do you think this is fair? Hellbats and Mines are useless in TvP? What the hell are you smoking? As long as you get the upgrades, Hellbats are still the same. The strength of the mech army comes later, not sooner. Mines are fucking useful in TvP. Maybe not AS useful as TvZ but still damn useful. Try using one. Your post reeks of bias.. When Protoss receives the most powerful unit in the game (for 100/100, 30 second build time, with only a cyber core requirement, mind you" gimmicky things like widow mines seem very lackluster in comparison. And why did you say "the strength of mech". Mech is abysmal TvP, the hellbat nerf is a bigger nerf to standard play than to mech, which was unplayable even before hellbat nerf.
The most powerful unit in the game? Are you out of your mind? It can create a temporary single target long range photon cannon, and slow units in a relatively small radius. Oh, and it dies to 2 marines in combat and moves about as fast as a high Templar.
The original post does in fact reek of bias because the post fails to account for the fact that NO ONE dies to DTs if they are a high enough level, and the reaper basically guaranteed a complete scout of the Terran base. Oracles are completely invalidated by either a single turret or a single mine.
And voidrays? They still have no use outside of a possible all-in, which like all Protoss allins is easily scouted by a reaper. A cliff jumping speedling as early as 3 minutes and Terran actually complains about other races 1 base allins.
|
On July 22 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 03:30 GhostOwl wrote:On July 21 2013 02:44 Snowbear wrote:On July 21 2013 02:19 GhostOwl wrote:
Are we really complaining about a balance about Protoss in TvP? Really??? Terran is currently the strongest race in both matchups, TvP is also way more balanced than TvZ at the moment..Poor Zergs..what a unfair matchup. Thank god I play Terran now. TvP: things changed in hots: - mine - mscore + nexus canon - speedvac - hellbat - Dark shrine - Oracle - stronger voidray - reapers - faster prism Hellbat: nerfed, useless in tvp. Mine: pure joke in tvp, if you don't know how to defend minedrops, then you are not highmaster or grandmaster. So for terran there is the reaper and the speedvac. For protoss the mscore, DT's, oracle's and stronger voidrays. The mscore lets protoss play more greedy = more eco = more units. So we got WOL tvp, but with protoss 1) being safe against any allin (hi mscore), 2) being more greedy (hi mscore), 3) having more and stronger allins (hi mscore, dt's, oracles, speedprism and voidrays), 4) having a sick strong harass unit (oracle) The early and midgame are completely shut down for terran thanks to the nexus canon. Meanwhile the protoss can play more greedy. How do you think this is fair? Hellbats and Mines are useless in TvP? What the hell are you smoking? As long as you get the upgrades, Hellbats are still the same. The strength of the mech army comes later, not sooner. Mines are fucking useful in TvP. Maybe not AS useful as TvZ but still damn useful. Try using one. Your post reeks of bias.. When Protoss receives the most powerful unit in the game (for 100/100, 30 second build time, with only a cyber core requirement, mind you" gimmicky things like widow mines seem very lackluster in comparison.And why did you say "the strength of mech". Mech is abysmal TvP, the hellbat nerf is a bigger nerf to standard play than to mech, which was unplayable even before hellbat nerf.
Made me chuckle, thanks ^^
|
The original post does in fact reek of bias because the post fails to account for the fact that NO ONE dies to DTs if they are a high enough level, and the reaper basically guaranteed a complete scout of the Terran base. Oracles are completely invalidated by either a single turret or a single mine.
Um, just because you don't "die" to DTs doesn't mean that DTs aren't super good against. WP DT is actually really strong if you fake something else decently. Really clever people will catch it usually, but it's still a good build now that DT Shrines are cheaper.
|
On July 22 2013 07:53 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 03:30 GhostOwl wrote:On July 21 2013 02:44 Snowbear wrote:On July 21 2013 02:19 GhostOwl wrote:
Are we really complaining about a balance about Protoss in TvP? Really??? Terran is currently the strongest race in both matchups, TvP is also way more balanced than TvZ at the moment..Poor Zergs..what a unfair matchup. Thank god I play Terran now. TvP: things changed in hots: - mine - mscore + nexus canon - speedvac - hellbat - Dark shrine - Oracle - stronger voidray - reapers - faster prism Hellbat: nerfed, useless in tvp. Mine: pure joke in tvp, if you don't know how to defend minedrops, then you are not highmaster or grandmaster. So for terran there is the reaper and the speedvac. For protoss the mscore, DT's, oracle's and stronger voidrays. The mscore lets protoss play more greedy = more eco = more units. So we got WOL tvp, but with protoss 1) being safe against any allin (hi mscore), 2) being more greedy (hi mscore), 3) having more and stronger allins (hi mscore, dt's, oracles, speedprism and voidrays), 4) having a sick strong harass unit (oracle) The early and midgame are completely shut down for terran thanks to the nexus canon. Meanwhile the protoss can play more greedy. How do you think this is fair? Hellbats and Mines are useless in TvP? What the hell are you smoking? As long as you get the upgrades, Hellbats are still the same. The strength of the mech army comes later, not sooner. Mines are fucking useful in TvP. Maybe not AS useful as TvZ but still damn useful. Try using one. Your post reeks of bias.. When Protoss receives the most powerful unit in the game (for 100/100, 30 second build time, with only a cyber core requirement, mind you" gimmicky things like widow mines seem very lackluster in comparison.And why did you say "the strength of mech". Mech is abysmal TvP, the hellbat nerf is a bigger nerf to standard play than to mech, which was unplayable even before hellbat nerf. Made me chuckle, thanks ^^
Please tell me which single unit is more powerful or influential than a Mothership core.
|
|
|
On July 22 2013 08:16 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 07:53 Doublemint wrote:On July 22 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 03:30 GhostOwl wrote:On July 21 2013 02:44 Snowbear wrote:On July 21 2013 02:19 GhostOwl wrote:
Are we really complaining about a balance about Protoss in TvP? Really??? Terran is currently the strongest race in both matchups, TvP is also way more balanced than TvZ at the moment..Poor Zergs..what a unfair matchup. Thank god I play Terran now. TvP: things changed in hots: - mine - mscore + nexus canon - speedvac - hellbat - Dark shrine - Oracle - stronger voidray - reapers - faster prism Hellbat: nerfed, useless in tvp. Mine: pure joke in tvp, if you don't know how to defend minedrops, then you are not highmaster or grandmaster. So for terran there is the reaper and the speedvac. For protoss the mscore, DT's, oracle's and stronger voidrays. The mscore lets protoss play more greedy = more eco = more units. So we got WOL tvp, but with protoss 1) being safe against any allin (hi mscore), 2) being more greedy (hi mscore), 3) having more and stronger allins (hi mscore, dt's, oracles, speedprism and voidrays), 4) having a sick strong harass unit (oracle) The early and midgame are completely shut down for terran thanks to the nexus canon. Meanwhile the protoss can play more greedy. How do you think this is fair? Hellbats and Mines are useless in TvP? What the hell are you smoking? As long as you get the upgrades, Hellbats are still the same. The strength of the mech army comes later, not sooner. Mines are fucking useful in TvP. Maybe not AS useful as TvZ but still damn useful. Try using one. Your post reeks of bias.. When Protoss receives the most powerful unit in the game (for 100/100, 30 second build time, with only a cyber core requirement, mind you" gimmicky things like widow mines seem very lackluster in comparison.And why did you say "the strength of mech". Mech is abysmal TvP, the hellbat nerf is a bigger nerf to standard play than to mech, which was unplayable even before hellbat nerf. Made me chuckle, thanks ^^ Please tell me which single unit is more powerful or influential than a Mothership core.
That's not how a game like starcraft works, or rock paper scissor for that matter. Calling one unit the most powerful in the game is preposterous, maybe the warhound and we know how that worked out. But it's nice that you back down and now call it "most influental".
You seem to have a MSC phobia if nothing else.
|
On July 22 2013 08:27 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 08:16 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 07:53 Doublemint wrote:On July 22 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 03:30 GhostOwl wrote:On July 21 2013 02:44 Snowbear wrote:On July 21 2013 02:19 GhostOwl wrote:
Are we really complaining about a balance about Protoss in TvP? Really??? Terran is currently the strongest race in both matchups, TvP is also way more balanced than TvZ at the moment..Poor Zergs..what a unfair matchup. Thank god I play Terran now. TvP: things changed in hots: - mine - mscore + nexus canon - speedvac - hellbat - Dark shrine - Oracle - stronger voidray - reapers - faster prism Hellbat: nerfed, useless in tvp. Mine: pure joke in tvp, if you don't know how to defend minedrops, then you are not highmaster or grandmaster. So for terran there is the reaper and the speedvac. For protoss the mscore, DT's, oracle's and stronger voidrays. The mscore lets protoss play more greedy = more eco = more units. So we got WOL tvp, but with protoss 1) being safe against any allin (hi mscore), 2) being more greedy (hi mscore), 3) having more and stronger allins (hi mscore, dt's, oracles, speedprism and voidrays), 4) having a sick strong harass unit (oracle) The early and midgame are completely shut down for terran thanks to the nexus canon. Meanwhile the protoss can play more greedy. How do you think this is fair? Hellbats and Mines are useless in TvP? What the hell are you smoking? As long as you get the upgrades, Hellbats are still the same. The strength of the mech army comes later, not sooner. Mines are fucking useful in TvP. Maybe not AS useful as TvZ but still damn useful. Try using one. Your post reeks of bias.. When Protoss receives the most powerful unit in the game (for 100/100, 30 second build time, with only a cyber core requirement, mind you" gimmicky things like widow mines seem very lackluster in comparison.And why did you say "the strength of mech". Mech is abysmal TvP, the hellbat nerf is a bigger nerf to standard play than to mech, which was unplayable even before hellbat nerf. Made me chuckle, thanks ^^ Please tell me which single unit is more powerful or influential than a Mothership core. That's not how a game like starcraft works, or rock paper scissor for that matter. Calling one unit the most powerful in the game is preposterous, maybe the warhound and we know how that worked out. But it's nice that you back down and now call it "most influental". You seem to have a MSC phobia if nothing else.
It is both the most powerful and influential unit in the game, I didn't back down. And you refused to answer my question. You're telling me you'd rather have 1 warhound in your army than 1 mothership core?
|
On July 22 2013 08:28 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 08:27 Doublemint wrote:On July 22 2013 08:16 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 07:53 Doublemint wrote:On July 22 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 03:30 GhostOwl wrote:On July 21 2013 02:44 Snowbear wrote:On July 21 2013 02:19 GhostOwl wrote:
Are we really complaining about a balance about Protoss in TvP? Really??? Terran is currently the strongest race in both matchups, TvP is also way more balanced than TvZ at the moment..Poor Zergs..what a unfair matchup. Thank god I play Terran now. TvP: things changed in hots: - mine - mscore + nexus canon - speedvac - hellbat - Dark shrine - Oracle - stronger voidray - reapers - faster prism Hellbat: nerfed, useless in tvp. Mine: pure joke in tvp, if you don't know how to defend minedrops, then you are not highmaster or grandmaster. So for terran there is the reaper and the speedvac. For protoss the mscore, DT's, oracle's and stronger voidrays. The mscore lets protoss play more greedy = more eco = more units. So we got WOL tvp, but with protoss 1) being safe against any allin (hi mscore), 2) being more greedy (hi mscore), 3) having more and stronger allins (hi mscore, dt's, oracles, speedprism and voidrays), 4) having a sick strong harass unit (oracle) The early and midgame are completely shut down for terran thanks to the nexus canon. Meanwhile the protoss can play more greedy. How do you think this is fair? Hellbats and Mines are useless in TvP? What the hell are you smoking? As long as you get the upgrades, Hellbats are still the same. The strength of the mech army comes later, not sooner. Mines are fucking useful in TvP. Maybe not AS useful as TvZ but still damn useful. Try using one. Your post reeks of bias.. When Protoss receives the most powerful unit in the game (for 100/100, 30 second build time, with only a cyber core requirement, mind you" gimmicky things like widow mines seem very lackluster in comparison.And why did you say "the strength of mech". Mech is abysmal TvP, the hellbat nerf is a bigger nerf to standard play than to mech, which was unplayable even before hellbat nerf. Made me chuckle, thanks ^^ Please tell me which single unit is more powerful or influential than a Mothership core. That's not how a game like starcraft works, or rock paper scissor for that matter. Calling one unit the most powerful in the game is preposterous, maybe the warhound and we know how that worked out. But it's nice that you back down and now call it "most influental". You seem to have a MSC phobia if nothing else. It is both the most powerful and influential unit in the game, I didn't back down. And you refused to answer my question. You're telling me you'd rather have 1 warhound in your army than 1 mothership core?
I would also love to have speedyvacs in a protoss army or stimmed roaches. Too bad really.
And oh yeah, I remember now how much that pesky MSC helps so much that Protoss - without a doubt - is broken and will win this year's OSL in a PvP and proceed winning it all. All hail MSC!
|
On July 22 2013 08:36 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 08:28 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 08:27 Doublemint wrote:On July 22 2013 08:16 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 07:53 Doublemint wrote:On July 22 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 03:30 GhostOwl wrote:On July 21 2013 02:44 Snowbear wrote:On July 21 2013 02:19 GhostOwl wrote:
Are we really complaining about a balance about Protoss in TvP? Really??? Terran is currently the strongest race in both matchups, TvP is also way more balanced than TvZ at the moment..Poor Zergs..what a unfair matchup. Thank god I play Terran now. TvP: things changed in hots: - mine - mscore + nexus canon - speedvac - hellbat - Dark shrine - Oracle - stronger voidray - reapers - faster prism Hellbat: nerfed, useless in tvp. Mine: pure joke in tvp, if you don't know how to defend minedrops, then you are not highmaster or grandmaster. So for terran there is the reaper and the speedvac. For protoss the mscore, DT's, oracle's and stronger voidrays. The mscore lets protoss play more greedy = more eco = more units. So we got WOL tvp, but with protoss 1) being safe against any allin (hi mscore), 2) being more greedy (hi mscore), 3) having more and stronger allins (hi mscore, dt's, oracles, speedprism and voidrays), 4) having a sick strong harass unit (oracle) The early and midgame are completely shut down for terran thanks to the nexus canon. Meanwhile the protoss can play more greedy. How do you think this is fair? Hellbats and Mines are useless in TvP? What the hell are you smoking? As long as you get the upgrades, Hellbats are still the same. The strength of the mech army comes later, not sooner. Mines are fucking useful in TvP. Maybe not AS useful as TvZ but still damn useful. Try using one. Your post reeks of bias.. When Protoss receives the most powerful unit in the game (for 100/100, 30 second build time, with only a cyber core requirement, mind you" gimmicky things like widow mines seem very lackluster in comparison.And why did you say "the strength of mech". Mech is abysmal TvP, the hellbat nerf is a bigger nerf to standard play than to mech, which was unplayable even before hellbat nerf. Made me chuckle, thanks ^^ Please tell me which single unit is more powerful or influential than a Mothership core. That's not how a game like starcraft works, or rock paper scissor for that matter. Calling one unit the most powerful in the game is preposterous, maybe the warhound and we know how that worked out. But it's nice that you back down and now call it "most influental". You seem to have a MSC phobia if nothing else. It is both the most powerful and influential unit in the game, I didn't back down. And you refused to answer my question. You're telling me you'd rather have 1 warhound in your army than 1 mothership core? I would also love to have speedyvacs in a protoss army or stimmed roaches. Too bad really. And oh yeah, I remember now how much that pesky MSC helps so much that Protoss - without a doubt - is broken and will win this year's OSL in a PvP and proceed winning it all. All hail MSC!
All right, pointless to converse with you. Have a good day, sir.
|
On July 22 2013 08:16 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 07:53 Doublemint wrote:On July 22 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 03:30 GhostOwl wrote:On July 21 2013 02:44 Snowbear wrote:On July 21 2013 02:19 GhostOwl wrote:
Are we really complaining about a balance about Protoss in TvP? Really??? Terran is currently the strongest race in both matchups, TvP is also way more balanced than TvZ at the moment..Poor Zergs..what a unfair matchup. Thank god I play Terran now. TvP: things changed in hots: - mine - mscore + nexus canon - speedvac - hellbat - Dark shrine - Oracle - stronger voidray - reapers - faster prism Hellbat: nerfed, useless in tvp. Mine: pure joke in tvp, if you don't know how to defend minedrops, then you are not highmaster or grandmaster. So for terran there is the reaper and the speedvac. For protoss the mscore, DT's, oracle's and stronger voidrays. The mscore lets protoss play more greedy = more eco = more units. So we got WOL tvp, but with protoss 1) being safe against any allin (hi mscore), 2) being more greedy (hi mscore), 3) having more and stronger allins (hi mscore, dt's, oracles, speedprism and voidrays), 4) having a sick strong harass unit (oracle) The early and midgame are completely shut down for terran thanks to the nexus canon. Meanwhile the protoss can play more greedy. How do you think this is fair? Hellbats and Mines are useless in TvP? What the hell are you smoking? As long as you get the upgrades, Hellbats are still the same. The strength of the mech army comes later, not sooner. Mines are fucking useful in TvP. Maybe not AS useful as TvZ but still damn useful. Try using one. Your post reeks of bias.. When Protoss receives the most powerful unit in the game (for 100/100, 30 second build time, with only a cyber core requirement, mind you" gimmicky things like widow mines seem very lackluster in comparison.And why did you say "the strength of mech". Mech is abysmal TvP, the hellbat nerf is a bigger nerf to standard play than to mech, which was unplayable even before hellbat nerf. Made me chuckle, thanks ^^ Please tell me which single unit is more powerful or influential than a Mothership core.
Medivac. Can heal, can transport shit, has a turbo-save my mistake-button, and can be built much faster than MSC.
Oh yeah..Terran T1 units are so strong it can kill other races T3 units.
Marines and Medivacs, cheat units pretty much.
|
On July 22 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 03:30 GhostOwl wrote:On July 21 2013 02:44 Snowbear wrote:On July 21 2013 02:19 GhostOwl wrote:
Are we really complaining about a balance about Protoss in TvP? Really??? Terran is currently the strongest race in both matchups, TvP is also way more balanced than TvZ at the moment..Poor Zergs..what a unfair matchup. Thank god I play Terran now. TvP: things changed in hots: - mine - mscore + nexus canon - speedvac - hellbat - Dark shrine - Oracle - stronger voidray - reapers - faster prism Hellbat: nerfed, useless in tvp. Mine: pure joke in tvp, if you don't know how to defend minedrops, then you are not highmaster or grandmaster. So for terran there is the reaper and the speedvac. For protoss the mscore, DT's, oracle's and stronger voidrays. The mscore lets protoss play more greedy = more eco = more units. So we got WOL tvp, but with protoss 1) being safe against any allin (hi mscore), 2) being more greedy (hi mscore), 3) having more and stronger allins (hi mscore, dt's, oracles, speedprism and voidrays), 4) having a sick strong harass unit (oracle) The early and midgame are completely shut down for terran thanks to the nexus canon. Meanwhile the protoss can play more greedy. How do you think this is fair? Hellbats and Mines are useless in TvP? What the hell are you smoking? As long as you get the upgrades, Hellbats are still the same. The strength of the mech army comes later, not sooner. Mines are fucking useful in TvP. Maybe not AS useful as TvZ but still damn useful. Try using one. Your post reeks of bias.. When Protoss receives the most powerful unit in the game (for 100/100, 30 second build time, with only a cyber core requirement, mind you" gimmicky things like widow mines seem very lackluster in comparison. And why did you say "the strength of mech". Mech is abysmal TvP, the hellbat nerf is a bigger nerf to standard play than to mech, which was unplayable even before hellbat nerf.
Not another one of these biased Terrans...
Dude, you do realize that TvP mech does't HAVE to be viable right?? It's like me complaining I cant go pure skytoss Protoss vs Terran and completely neglect gateway units...
|
On July 22 2013 08:58 GhostOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 08:16 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 07:53 Doublemint wrote:On July 22 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 03:30 GhostOwl wrote:On July 21 2013 02:44 Snowbear wrote:On July 21 2013 02:19 GhostOwl wrote:
Are we really complaining about a balance about Protoss in TvP? Really??? Terran is currently the strongest race in both matchups, TvP is also way more balanced than TvZ at the moment..Poor Zergs..what a unfair matchup. Thank god I play Terran now. TvP: things changed in hots: - mine - mscore + nexus canon - speedvac - hellbat - Dark shrine - Oracle - stronger voidray - reapers - faster prism Hellbat: nerfed, useless in tvp. Mine: pure joke in tvp, if you don't know how to defend minedrops, then you are not highmaster or grandmaster. So for terran there is the reaper and the speedvac. For protoss the mscore, DT's, oracle's and stronger voidrays. The mscore lets protoss play more greedy = more eco = more units. So we got WOL tvp, but with protoss 1) being safe against any allin (hi mscore), 2) being more greedy (hi mscore), 3) having more and stronger allins (hi mscore, dt's, oracles, speedprism and voidrays), 4) having a sick strong harass unit (oracle) The early and midgame are completely shut down for terran thanks to the nexus canon. Meanwhile the protoss can play more greedy. How do you think this is fair? Hellbats and Mines are useless in TvP? What the hell are you smoking? As long as you get the upgrades, Hellbats are still the same. The strength of the mech army comes later, not sooner. Mines are fucking useful in TvP. Maybe not AS useful as TvZ but still damn useful. Try using one. Your post reeks of bias.. When Protoss receives the most powerful unit in the game (for 100/100, 30 second build time, with only a cyber core requirement, mind you" gimmicky things like widow mines seem very lackluster in comparison.And why did you say "the strength of mech". Mech is abysmal TvP, the hellbat nerf is a bigger nerf to standard play than to mech, which was unplayable even before hellbat nerf. Made me chuckle, thanks ^^ Please tell me which single unit is more powerful or influential than a Mothership core. Medivac. Can heal, can transport shit, has a turbo-save my mistake-button, and can be built much faster than MSC. Oh yeah..Terran T1 units are so strong it can kill other races T3 units. Marines and Medivacs, cheat units pretty much.
Medivacs arent tier 1 lol
|
On July 22 2013 08:16 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 07:53 Doublemint wrote:On July 22 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 03:30 GhostOwl wrote:On July 21 2013 02:44 Snowbear wrote:On July 21 2013 02:19 GhostOwl wrote:
Are we really complaining about a balance about Protoss in TvP? Really??? Terran is currently the strongest race in both matchups, TvP is also way more balanced than TvZ at the moment..Poor Zergs..what a unfair matchup. Thank god I play Terran now. TvP: things changed in hots: - mine - mscore + nexus canon - speedvac - hellbat - Dark shrine - Oracle - stronger voidray - reapers - faster prism Hellbat: nerfed, useless in tvp. Mine: pure joke in tvp, if you don't know how to defend minedrops, then you are not highmaster or grandmaster. So for terran there is the reaper and the speedvac. For protoss the mscore, DT's, oracle's and stronger voidrays. The mscore lets protoss play more greedy = more eco = more units. So we got WOL tvp, but with protoss 1) being safe against any allin (hi mscore), 2) being more greedy (hi mscore), 3) having more and stronger allins (hi mscore, dt's, oracles, speedprism and voidrays), 4) having a sick strong harass unit (oracle) The early and midgame are completely shut down for terran thanks to the nexus canon. Meanwhile the protoss can play more greedy. How do you think this is fair? Hellbats and Mines are useless in TvP? What the hell are you smoking? As long as you get the upgrades, Hellbats are still the same. The strength of the mech army comes later, not sooner. Mines are fucking useful in TvP. Maybe not AS useful as TvZ but still damn useful. Try using one. Your post reeks of bias.. When Protoss receives the most powerful unit in the game (for 100/100, 30 second build time, with only a cyber core requirement, mind you" gimmicky things like widow mines seem very lackluster in comparison.And why did you say "the strength of mech". Mech is abysmal TvP, the hellbat nerf is a bigger nerf to standard play than to mech, which was unplayable even before hellbat nerf. Made me chuckle, thanks ^^ Please tell me which single unit is more powerful or influential than a Mothership core.
It doesn't matter. The Mothership is the only unit in the entire game that you can only make one of. It's silly to compare it to units which are designed around being mass produced; they're totally different concepts. The MSC is definitely extremely strong, though.
|
TvP is undeniably favoured towards Protoss at this point, only an idiot or an extremely biased person would disagree.
|
On July 22 2013 08:58 GhostOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 08:16 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 07:53 Doublemint wrote:On July 22 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:On July 22 2013 03:30 GhostOwl wrote:On July 21 2013 02:44 Snowbear wrote:On July 21 2013 02:19 GhostOwl wrote:
Are we really complaining about a balance about Protoss in TvP? Really??? Terran is currently the strongest race in both matchups, TvP is also way more balanced than TvZ at the moment..Poor Zergs..what a unfair matchup. Thank god I play Terran now. TvP: things changed in hots: - mine - mscore + nexus canon - speedvac - hellbat - Dark shrine - Oracle - stronger voidray - reapers - faster prism Hellbat: nerfed, useless in tvp. Mine: pure joke in tvp, if you don't know how to defend minedrops, then you are not highmaster or grandmaster. So for terran there is the reaper and the speedvac. For protoss the mscore, DT's, oracle's and stronger voidrays. The mscore lets protoss play more greedy = more eco = more units. So we got WOL tvp, but with protoss 1) being safe against any allin (hi mscore), 2) being more greedy (hi mscore), 3) having more and stronger allins (hi mscore, dt's, oracles, speedprism and voidrays), 4) having a sick strong harass unit (oracle) The early and midgame are completely shut down for terran thanks to the nexus canon. Meanwhile the protoss can play more greedy. How do you think this is fair? Hellbats and Mines are useless in TvP? What the hell are you smoking? As long as you get the upgrades, Hellbats are still the same. The strength of the mech army comes later, not sooner. Mines are fucking useful in TvP. Maybe not AS useful as TvZ but still damn useful. Try using one. Your post reeks of bias.. When Protoss receives the most powerful unit in the game (for 100/100, 30 second build time, with only a cyber core requirement, mind you" gimmicky things like widow mines seem very lackluster in comparison.And why did you say "the strength of mech". Mech is abysmal TvP, the hellbat nerf is a bigger nerf to standard play than to mech, which was unplayable even before hellbat nerf. Made me chuckle, thanks ^^ Please tell me which single unit is more powerful or influential than a Mothership core. Medivac. Can heal, can transport shit, has a turbo-save my mistake-button, and can be built much faster than MSC. Oh yeah..Terran T1 units are so strong it can kill other races T3 units. Marines and Medivacs, cheat units pretty much.
Lets see here.
1) Protoss shields heal themselves so I won't get into that.
2) Don't see how transporting shit is really that big of a deal since all races have a transport unit.
3) MSC has has a teleport all of my units save my all-in button.
4) 30 seconds = MSC vs 42 seconds = Medivac........
5) Four stalkers can kill a Battle Cruiser......4 zealots can kill a thor.
Have a good day sir 
|
On July 22 2013 08:10 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +The original post does in fact reek of bias because the post fails to account for the fact that NO ONE dies to DTs if they are a high enough level, and the reaper basically guaranteed a complete scout of the Terran base. Oracles are completely invalidated by either a single turret or a single mine. Um, just because you don't "die" to DTs doesn't mean that DTs aren't super good against. WP DT is actually really strong if you fake something else decently. Really clever people will catch it usually, but it's still a good build now that DT Shrines are cheaper.
Terrible people get caught by DTs. It's not expensive at all to deflect and there are multiple layers of redundancy to defend with. DT shrine actually made DTs viable. Didnt make them particularly great. If they were at all more common, we'd see simple reactions to nullify them again.
They are ok to sprinkle in but not exactly potent.
|
And we're all really waiting on next month's Korean winrates. There are two notable things that have occurred in the last weeks:
a) We have pretty much established that Koreans do not lose to foreigners anymore (Except for Goswsers's ZvZ ^^). This makes foreigner winrates less relevant (which is sad for a number of reasons, but mainly because it pulls down the number of games and thus lengthens the period we need to look at).
b) Major said, using a skype message to Artosis during Meta, that everyone in Korea believes the Msc is too strong and needs to be nerfed. He was right about Innovation, and he's closely connected to a Kespa team. I'd say he has probably foreshadowed something we'll see in the coming weeks and months.
I still think the primary problem is the plethora of all-ins from Protoss against terran (it's probably the main coin-flip element (not in the sense that it's a 50% winrate, but that a lucky guess can win the P the game or an unlucky guess can lose the T the game)), but any nerf to the Msc would naturally weaken them considerably. I think P required time to adapt in the beginning of HOTS, but there are both super-strong attacks with transitions (1-base proxy twilight blink) and extremely solid super-greedy macro styles which are safe against everything (First, Rain).
|
its not only a TvP problem. last week there was a progame on belshir vestige where zerg did a 3 base-3rd hatch cancel roach ling all in vs a FFE that was completely unscouted. MsC + reactive cannons hold it with ease without scouting or sentries. was really stupid and the zerg was pretty mad ^^
i love that blizz buffed WP although it wasnt needed winrate wise as we can see now that P dominates TvP and ZvP. but still it is nice that they buffed something that needs skill to execute. now its time to nerf something that is strong and needs less skill to use --> nerf nexus cannon (not damage but duration. damage nerf will make it pretty useless).
|
I actually think the nexus canon nerf should be a range nerf, like "nexus canon range down to 11 (from 13)", so that at least terran can go up the ramp to the B1 if the protoss has not even one sentry (yes protoss is being so greedy right now he doesn't even build one sentry before the 10th min mark, to tech up even faster)
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
