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On July 11 2013 05:58 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 05:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:45 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:18 Rhaegal wrote:On July 11 2013 05:09 Big J wrote:On July 11 2013 03:03 TheDwf wrote:On July 11 2013 02:28 Big J wrote:On July 11 2013 02:09 TheAwesomeAll wrote:On July 11 2013 01:55 Wobaq wrote:
can we all just agree TvP is total bullshit? yes sure, imo the core completely screwed the mechanic of early pressure vs late game weakness of tvp. The threat of terran cheeses is almost completely gone and protoss can play really greedily until the 2 medivac timing. In my opinion the nexus cannon lasts too long and costs too little for early pressure to pay of. Either the core needs to be nerved or lategame tvp must get more balanced. i dont think buffing protoss to get better vs mass ghost/viking will make the matchup better Sorry, are you seriously implying that lategame TvP is Terran-favored? Im implying that Terran is by no means underpowered in TvP lategame just because Flash's Ghost control was horrible against Parting and his gameplan (BCs vs Tempests) more than just questionable. I was just interpreting TheAwesomes post the other of two possible ways. Protoss is allowed to make more mistakes in late game than Terran, if the trade is even they reinforce instantly, meaning that Terran needs to win every fight handily or else he dies. Nexus cannon killed every all in, or even the common things like 7 marine pressure we saw in WoL. I really thing Protoss is too strong in TvP. Their cheese and all ins are so much more powerful (1 oracle killing 5 marines is simply silly) and a lot of maps are so hard to hold off a simple blink stalker all in, they get free map hacks early game with MSC and hallucination, and now with hellbat nerf chargelot all ins just got so much stronger. I would switch to ZvP, but the vs P matchup looks pretty similar for them as well. Even when 2x as fast, he simply turtles up and can win from 1 a move engagement if your engagement is perfect. Is there a reason they need the fastest and cheapest upgrades? Holy cow. Terran needs to win every engagement because they have to wait for their units to finish instead of waiting for a cooldown? I don't even know how to respond to that, besides "No; you're wrong". Nexus cannon kills every all-in? Maybe it can thwart off some early pressure, but that's far different than all-ins, especially when a stimmed bio army can shoot down a nexus in five seconds flat and completely ignore the nexus cannon. Terran cheese is just as annoying for Protoss. Widow mine drops, bio drops, banshees, hellbat/ BFH drops (the former is just as useful after waiting the two minutes it takes to upgrade them back to their original damage), etc. 1a-ing to victory? You realize that Protoss players use more spellcasters than any other race, right? Maybe splitting isn't as important as it is for Terran, but 1a? Seriously? Just out of curiosity, what league are you in? And also, do you watch professional StarCraft 2 at all? Protoss is pretty damn 1-A once you get a sizable deathball... how are you going to argue against that? lol jesus... With high templar, blink stalkers, and forcefields, probably. You clearly don't play both P and T... Not to mention forcefields and blink stalkers are rarely used in the lategame... which is what we are talking about...
How exactly do you get under the vikings that are shooting colossi from miles away, or chase down medivacs and other individual units? Lots of players use blink.
And sure, sentries aren't used as much in the lategame, but having a "sizable" army doesn't mean it's the lategame, nor does it mean you have no sentries.
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On July 11 2013 05:18 Rhaegal wrote:
I really thing Protoss is too strong in TvP. Their cheese and all ins are so much more powerful (1 oracle killing 5 marines is simply silly) and a lot of maps are so hard to hold off a simple blink stalker all in, they get free map hacks early game with MSC and hallucination, and now with hellbat nerf chargelot all ins just got so much stronger.
Or, here's a thought. Maybe the type of gamer that's drawn to a race that depends on sentry micro and has a significant skill barrier to even be able to survive the early game tends to be better, smarter and more persistent than those drawn to a race that revolves around spamming guys with assault rifles and stop-stuttering them.
You guys aren't doing anything but spamming marines, medivacs and marauders, for Christ's sake. If I were in that position, I'd keep my head down.
Reminds me that in work, we have the PR department and an IT department full of coders. One group has life easier...yet guess which one is more resentful over things like subsidizing poor people and paying their taxes?
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On July 11 2013 06:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 05:58 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:45 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:18 Rhaegal wrote:On July 11 2013 05:09 Big J wrote:On July 11 2013 03:03 TheDwf wrote:On July 11 2013 02:28 Big J wrote:On July 11 2013 02:09 TheAwesomeAll wrote:
[quote]
yes sure, imo the core completely screwed the mechanic of early pressure vs late game weakness of tvp. The threat of terran cheeses is almost completely gone and protoss can play really greedily until the 2 medivac timing. In my opinion the nexus cannon lasts too long and costs too little for early pressure to pay of. Either the core needs to be nerved or lategame tvp must get more balanced. i dont think buffing protoss to get better vs mass ghost/viking will make the matchup better Sorry, are you seriously implying that lategame TvP is Terran-favored? Im implying that Terran is by no means underpowered in TvP lategame just because Flash's Ghost control was horrible against Parting and his gameplan (BCs vs Tempests) more than just questionable. I was just interpreting TheAwesomes post the other of two possible ways. Protoss is allowed to make more mistakes in late game than Terran, if the trade is even they reinforce instantly, meaning that Terran needs to win every fight handily or else he dies. Nexus cannon killed every all in, or even the common things like 7 marine pressure we saw in WoL. I really thing Protoss is too strong in TvP. Their cheese and all ins are so much more powerful (1 oracle killing 5 marines is simply silly) and a lot of maps are so hard to hold off a simple blink stalker all in, they get free map hacks early game with MSC and hallucination, and now with hellbat nerf chargelot all ins just got so much stronger. I would switch to ZvP, but the vs P matchup looks pretty similar for them as well. Even when 2x as fast, he simply turtles up and can win from 1 a move engagement if your engagement is perfect. Is there a reason they need the fastest and cheapest upgrades? Holy cow. Terran needs to win every engagement because they have to wait for their units to finish instead of waiting for a cooldown? I don't even know how to respond to that, besides "No; you're wrong". Nexus cannon kills every all-in? Maybe it can thwart off some early pressure, but that's far different than all-ins, especially when a stimmed bio army can shoot down a nexus in five seconds flat and completely ignore the nexus cannon. Terran cheese is just as annoying for Protoss. Widow mine drops, bio drops, banshees, hellbat/ BFH drops (the former is just as useful after waiting the two minutes it takes to upgrade them back to their original damage), etc. 1a-ing to victory? You realize that Protoss players use more spellcasters than any other race, right? Maybe splitting isn't as important as it is for Terran, but 1a? Seriously? Just out of curiosity, what league are you in? And also, do you watch professional StarCraft 2 at all? Protoss is pretty damn 1-A once you get a sizable deathball... how are you going to argue against that? lol jesus... With high templar, blink stalkers, and forcefields, probably. You clearly don't play both P and T... Not to mention forcefields and blink stalkers are rarely used in the lategame... which is what we are talking about... How exactly do you get under the vikings that are shooting colossi from miles away, or chase down medivacs and other individual units? Lots of players use blink. And sure, sentries aren't used as much in the lategame, but having a "sizable" army doesn't mean it's the lategame, nor does it mean you have no sentries.
Maybe he controls his vikings so poorly that his opponents never need to blink? I mean, it could be user error.
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On July 11 2013 06:06 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 05:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:52 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2013 05:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:45 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:18 Rhaegal wrote:On July 11 2013 05:09 Big J wrote:On July 11 2013 03:03 TheDwf wrote:On July 11 2013 02:28 Big J wrote:
[quote]
i dont think buffing protoss to get better vs mass ghost/viking will make the matchup better Sorry, are you seriously implying that lategame TvP is Terran-favored? Im implying that Terran is by no means underpowered in TvP lategame just because Flash's Ghost control was horrible against Parting and his gameplan (BCs vs Tempests) more than just questionable. I was just interpreting TheAwesomes post the other of two possible ways. Protoss is allowed to make more mistakes in late game than Terran, if the trade is even they reinforce instantly, meaning that Terran needs to win every fight handily or else he dies. Nexus cannon killed every all in, or even the common things like 7 marine pressure we saw in WoL. I really thing Protoss is too strong in TvP. Their cheese and all ins are so much more powerful (1 oracle killing 5 marines is simply silly) and a lot of maps are so hard to hold off a simple blink stalker all in, they get free map hacks early game with MSC and hallucination, and now with hellbat nerf chargelot all ins just got so much stronger. I would switch to ZvP, but the vs P matchup looks pretty similar for them as well. Even when 2x as fast, he simply turtles up and can win from 1 a move engagement if your engagement is perfect. Is there a reason they need the fastest and cheapest upgrades? Holy cow. Terran needs to win every engagement because they have to wait for their units to finish instead of waiting for a cooldown? I don't even know how to respond to that, besides "No; you're wrong". Nexus cannon kills every all-in? Maybe it can thwart off some early pressure, but that's far different than all-ins, especially when a stimmed bio army can shoot down a nexus in five seconds flat and completely ignore the nexus cannon. Terran cheese is just as annoying for Protoss. Widow mine drops, bio drops, banshees, hellbat/ BFH drops (the former is just as useful after waiting the two minutes it takes to upgrade them back to their original damage), etc. 1a-ing to victory? You realize that Protoss players use more spellcasters than any other race, right? Maybe splitting isn't as important as it is for Terran, but 1a? Seriously? Just out of curiosity, what league are you in? And also, do you watch professional StarCraft 2 at all? Protoss is pretty damn 1-A once you get a sizable deathball... how are you going to argue against that? lol jesus... With high templar, blink stalkers, and forcefields, probably. Why argue with them? They are part of the "endless terran whine, protoss is 1-A race and zerg is impossible to beat" club. There is nothing that can be said that will convince them otherwise. I have always wanted to just go super agro on one of the terran whiners, but it never felt appropriate. Like: “Oh man, it must be nice not to have to deal with any spell casters till the late game. Keeps those hot keys really simple.” Or: “Man, I wish I had two difference units with abilities both linked to the same button. They should make storm and FF on the same, so I never have to tab again” Or: “Man is must be nice to not have to think about how many of each unit to get in the early game. Just build them marines has fast as you” But I never do. It would be fun though. ::shrugs:: I can see people pointing out the pros and cons of playing any particular race, but it's just annoying when people make it sound like there's no reason why someone who plays Race X doesn't win 100% of his games at every point in time (early, mid, late game). But then again, this is the designated balance whine thread... it seems most people are just venting rather than taking things particularly seriously. I have always wanted to just go super agro on one of the terran whiners, but it never felt approperate
Yeah it's not worth the possible warning.
Also, I'm not exactly sure what you did in this previous post, but you're not actually quoting me. Or more accurately, I didn't say everything in that comment you replied to lol
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On July 11 2013 06:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 05:58 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:45 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:18 Rhaegal wrote:On July 11 2013 05:09 Big J wrote:On July 11 2013 03:03 TheDwf wrote:On July 11 2013 02:28 Big J wrote:On July 11 2013 02:09 TheAwesomeAll wrote:
[quote]
yes sure, imo the core completely screwed the mechanic of early pressure vs late game weakness of tvp. The threat of terran cheeses is almost completely gone and protoss can play really greedily until the 2 medivac timing. In my opinion the nexus cannon lasts too long and costs too little for early pressure to pay of. Either the core needs to be nerved or lategame tvp must get more balanced. i dont think buffing protoss to get better vs mass ghost/viking will make the matchup better Sorry, are you seriously implying that lategame TvP is Terran-favored? Im implying that Terran is by no means underpowered in TvP lategame just because Flash's Ghost control was horrible against Parting and his gameplan (BCs vs Tempests) more than just questionable. I was just interpreting TheAwesomes post the other of two possible ways. Protoss is allowed to make more mistakes in late game than Terran, if the trade is even they reinforce instantly, meaning that Terran needs to win every fight handily or else he dies. Nexus cannon killed every all in, or even the common things like 7 marine pressure we saw in WoL. I really thing Protoss is too strong in TvP. Their cheese and all ins are so much more powerful (1 oracle killing 5 marines is simply silly) and a lot of maps are so hard to hold off a simple blink stalker all in, they get free map hacks early game with MSC and hallucination, and now with hellbat nerf chargelot all ins just got so much stronger. I would switch to ZvP, but the vs P matchup looks pretty similar for them as well. Even when 2x as fast, he simply turtles up and can win from 1 a move engagement if your engagement is perfect. Is there a reason they need the fastest and cheapest upgrades? Holy cow. Terran needs to win every engagement because they have to wait for their units to finish instead of waiting for a cooldown? I don't even know how to respond to that, besides "No; you're wrong". Nexus cannon kills every all-in? Maybe it can thwart off some early pressure, but that's far different than all-ins, especially when a stimmed bio army can shoot down a nexus in five seconds flat and completely ignore the nexus cannon. Terran cheese is just as annoying for Protoss. Widow mine drops, bio drops, banshees, hellbat/ BFH drops (the former is just as useful after waiting the two minutes it takes to upgrade them back to their original damage), etc. 1a-ing to victory? You realize that Protoss players use more spellcasters than any other race, right? Maybe splitting isn't as important as it is for Terran, but 1a? Seriously? Just out of curiosity, what league are you in? And also, do you watch professional StarCraft 2 at all? Protoss is pretty damn 1-A once you get a sizable deathball... how are you going to argue against that? lol jesus... With high templar, blink stalkers, and forcefields, probably. You clearly don't play both P and T... Really? That's your response when I point out several spellcasters that Protoss need to control properly (plus the msc), when responding to the assertion that Protoss can just 1a and automatically win? "Oh yeah, well you don't play Terran!" ??? Regardless of whether or not Terrans need to micro more, that doesn't mean Protoss players don't need to micro at all. It's a complete non sequitur.
Theres really not much else to say when you are arguing that using blink stalkers and sentries in the lategame is hard...
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On July 11 2013 06:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 06:06 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2013 05:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:52 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2013 05:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:45 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:18 Rhaegal wrote:On July 11 2013 05:09 Big J wrote:On July 11 2013 03:03 TheDwf wrote:
[quote]
Sorry, are you seriously implying that lategame TvP is Terran-favored? Im implying that Terran is by no means underpowered in TvP lategame just because Flash's Ghost control was horrible against Parting and his gameplan (BCs vs Tempests) more than just questionable. I was just interpreting TheAwesomes post the other of two possible ways. Protoss is allowed to make more mistakes in late game than Terran, if the trade is even they reinforce instantly, meaning that Terran needs to win every fight handily or else he dies. Nexus cannon killed every all in, or even the common things like 7 marine pressure we saw in WoL. I really thing Protoss is too strong in TvP. Their cheese and all ins are so much more powerful (1 oracle killing 5 marines is simply silly) and a lot of maps are so hard to hold off a simple blink stalker all in, they get free map hacks early game with MSC and hallucination, and now with hellbat nerf chargelot all ins just got so much stronger. I would switch to ZvP, but the vs P matchup looks pretty similar for them as well. Even when 2x as fast, he simply turtles up and can win from 1 a move engagement if your engagement is perfect. Is there a reason they need the fastest and cheapest upgrades? Holy cow. Terran needs to win every engagement because they have to wait for their units to finish instead of waiting for a cooldown? I don't even know how to respond to that, besides "No; you're wrong". Nexus cannon kills every all-in? Maybe it can thwart off some early pressure, but that's far different than all-ins, especially when a stimmed bio army can shoot down a nexus in five seconds flat and completely ignore the nexus cannon. Terran cheese is just as annoying for Protoss. Widow mine drops, bio drops, banshees, hellbat/ BFH drops (the former is just as useful after waiting the two minutes it takes to upgrade them back to their original damage), etc. 1a-ing to victory? You realize that Protoss players use more spellcasters than any other race, right? Maybe splitting isn't as important as it is for Terran, but 1a? Seriously? Just out of curiosity, what league are you in? And also, do you watch professional StarCraft 2 at all? Protoss is pretty damn 1-A once you get a sizable deathball... how are you going to argue against that? lol jesus... With high templar, blink stalkers, and forcefields, probably. Why argue with them? They are part of the "endless terran whine, protoss is 1-A race and zerg is impossible to beat" club. There is nothing that can be said that will convince them otherwise. I have always wanted to just go super agro on one of the terran whiners, but it never felt appropriate. Like: “Oh man, it must be nice not to have to deal with any spell casters till the late game. Keeps those hot keys really simple.” Or: “Man, I wish I had two difference units with abilities both linked to the same button. They should make storm and FF on the same, so I never have to tab again” Or: “Man is must be nice to not have to think about how many of each unit to get in the early game. Just build them marines has fast as you” But I never do. It would be fun though. ::shrugs:: I can see people pointing out the pros and cons of playing any particular race, but it's just annoying when people make it sound like there's no reason why someone who plays Race X doesn't win 100% of his games at every point in time (early, mid, late game). But then again, this is the designated balance whine thread... it seems most people are just venting rather than taking things particularly seriously. I have always wanted to just go super agro on one of the terran whiners, but it never felt approperate Yeah it's not worth the possible warning. Also, I'm not exactly sure what you did in this previous post, but you're not actually quoting me. Or more accurately, I didn't say everything in that comment you replied to lol
More like, stuff I have wanted to say, but thought better of it. Clearly you have never been so brash as to go full argro.
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On July 11 2013 06:12 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 06:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:58 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:45 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:18 Rhaegal wrote:On July 11 2013 05:09 Big J wrote:On July 11 2013 03:03 TheDwf wrote:On July 11 2013 02:28 Big J wrote:
[quote]
i dont think buffing protoss to get better vs mass ghost/viking will make the matchup better Sorry, are you seriously implying that lategame TvP is Terran-favored? Im implying that Terran is by no means underpowered in TvP lategame just because Flash's Ghost control was horrible against Parting and his gameplan (BCs vs Tempests) more than just questionable. I was just interpreting TheAwesomes post the other of two possible ways. Protoss is allowed to make more mistakes in late game than Terran, if the trade is even they reinforce instantly, meaning that Terran needs to win every fight handily or else he dies. Nexus cannon killed every all in, or even the common things like 7 marine pressure we saw in WoL. I really thing Protoss is too strong in TvP. Their cheese and all ins are so much more powerful (1 oracle killing 5 marines is simply silly) and a lot of maps are so hard to hold off a simple blink stalker all in, they get free map hacks early game with MSC and hallucination, and now with hellbat nerf chargelot all ins just got so much stronger. I would switch to ZvP, but the vs P matchup looks pretty similar for them as well. Even when 2x as fast, he simply turtles up and can win from 1 a move engagement if your engagement is perfect. Is there a reason they need the fastest and cheapest upgrades? Holy cow. Terran needs to win every engagement because they have to wait for their units to finish instead of waiting for a cooldown? I don't even know how to respond to that, besides "No; you're wrong". Nexus cannon kills every all-in? Maybe it can thwart off some early pressure, but that's far different than all-ins, especially when a stimmed bio army can shoot down a nexus in five seconds flat and completely ignore the nexus cannon. Terran cheese is just as annoying for Protoss. Widow mine drops, bio drops, banshees, hellbat/ BFH drops (the former is just as useful after waiting the two minutes it takes to upgrade them back to their original damage), etc. 1a-ing to victory? You realize that Protoss players use more spellcasters than any other race, right? Maybe splitting isn't as important as it is for Terran, but 1a? Seriously? Just out of curiosity, what league are you in? And also, do you watch professional StarCraft 2 at all? Protoss is pretty damn 1-A once you get a sizable deathball... how are you going to argue against that? lol jesus... With high templar, blink stalkers, and forcefields, probably. You clearly don't play both P and T... Really? That's your response when I point out several spellcasters that Protoss need to control properly (plus the msc), when responding to the assertion that Protoss can just 1a and automatically win? "Oh yeah, well you don't play Terran!" ??? Regardless of whether or not Terrans need to micro more, that doesn't mean Protoss players don't need to micro at all. It's a complete non sequitur. Theres really not much else to say when you are arguing that using blink stalkers and sentries in the lategame is hard...
Strawman  Having an army =/= It's lategame
But I'm done too. I don't think I need to repeat anything I've said, especially when high templar and mothership cores apparently autocast anything I want, perfectly, without me needing to micro.
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On July 11 2013 06:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 06:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 06:06 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2013 05:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:52 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2013 05:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:45 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:18 Rhaegal wrote:On July 11 2013 05:09 Big J wrote:
[quote]
Im implying that Terran is by no means underpowered in TvP lategame just because Flash's Ghost control was horrible against Parting and his gameplan (BCs vs Tempests) more than just questionable.
I was just interpreting TheAwesomes post the other of two possible ways. Protoss is allowed to make more mistakes in late game than Terran, if the trade is even they reinforce instantly, meaning that Terran needs to win every fight handily or else he dies. Nexus cannon killed every all in, or even the common things like 7 marine pressure we saw in WoL. I really thing Protoss is too strong in TvP. Their cheese and all ins are so much more powerful (1 oracle killing 5 marines is simply silly) and a lot of maps are so hard to hold off a simple blink stalker all in, they get free map hacks early game with MSC and hallucination, and now with hellbat nerf chargelot all ins just got so much stronger. I would switch to ZvP, but the vs P matchup looks pretty similar for them as well. Even when 2x as fast, he simply turtles up and can win from 1 a move engagement if your engagement is perfect. Is there a reason they need the fastest and cheapest upgrades? Holy cow. Terran needs to win every engagement because they have to wait for their units to finish instead of waiting for a cooldown? I don't even know how to respond to that, besides "No; you're wrong". Nexus cannon kills every all-in? Maybe it can thwart off some early pressure, but that's far different than all-ins, especially when a stimmed bio army can shoot down a nexus in five seconds flat and completely ignore the nexus cannon. Terran cheese is just as annoying for Protoss. Widow mine drops, bio drops, banshees, hellbat/ BFH drops (the former is just as useful after waiting the two minutes it takes to upgrade them back to their original damage), etc. 1a-ing to victory? You realize that Protoss players use more spellcasters than any other race, right? Maybe splitting isn't as important as it is for Terran, but 1a? Seriously? Just out of curiosity, what league are you in? And also, do you watch professional StarCraft 2 at all? Protoss is pretty damn 1-A once you get a sizable deathball... how are you going to argue against that? lol jesus... With high templar, blink stalkers, and forcefields, probably. Why argue with them? They are part of the "endless terran whine, protoss is 1-A race and zerg is impossible to beat" club. There is nothing that can be said that will convince them otherwise. I have always wanted to just go super agro on one of the terran whiners, but it never felt appropriate. Like: “Oh man, it must be nice not to have to deal with any spell casters till the late game. Keeps those hot keys really simple.” Or: “Man, I wish I had two difference units with abilities both linked to the same button. They should make storm and FF on the same, so I never have to tab again” Or: “Man is must be nice to not have to think about how many of each unit to get in the early game. Just build them marines has fast as you” But I never do. It would be fun though. ::shrugs:: I can see people pointing out the pros and cons of playing any particular race, but it's just annoying when people make it sound like there's no reason why someone who plays Race X doesn't win 100% of his games at every point in time (early, mid, late game). But then again, this is the designated balance whine thread... it seems most people are just venting rather than taking things particularly seriously. I have always wanted to just go super agro on one of the terran whiners, but it never felt approperate Yeah it's not worth the possible warning. Also, I'm not exactly sure what you did in this previous post, but you're not actually quoting me. Or more accurately, I didn't say everything in that comment you replied to lol More like, stuff I have wanted to say, but thought better of it. Clearly you have never been so brash as to go full argro.
Correct; I have not  I try not to spend too much time taking absurd balance whines seriously.
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On July 11 2013 06:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 06:12 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 06:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:58 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:45 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:18 Rhaegal wrote:On July 11 2013 05:09 Big J wrote:On July 11 2013 03:03 TheDwf wrote:
[quote]
Sorry, are you seriously implying that lategame TvP is Terran-favored? Im implying that Terran is by no means underpowered in TvP lategame just because Flash's Ghost control was horrible against Parting and his gameplan (BCs vs Tempests) more than just questionable. I was just interpreting TheAwesomes post the other of two possible ways. Protoss is allowed to make more mistakes in late game than Terran, if the trade is even they reinforce instantly, meaning that Terran needs to win every fight handily or else he dies. Nexus cannon killed every all in, or even the common things like 7 marine pressure we saw in WoL. I really thing Protoss is too strong in TvP. Their cheese and all ins are so much more powerful (1 oracle killing 5 marines is simply silly) and a lot of maps are so hard to hold off a simple blink stalker all in, they get free map hacks early game with MSC and hallucination, and now with hellbat nerf chargelot all ins just got so much stronger. I would switch to ZvP, but the vs P matchup looks pretty similar for them as well. Even when 2x as fast, he simply turtles up and can win from 1 a move engagement if your engagement is perfect. Is there a reason they need the fastest and cheapest upgrades? Holy cow. Terran needs to win every engagement because they have to wait for their units to finish instead of waiting for a cooldown? I don't even know how to respond to that, besides "No; you're wrong". Nexus cannon kills every all-in? Maybe it can thwart off some early pressure, but that's far different than all-ins, especially when a stimmed bio army can shoot down a nexus in five seconds flat and completely ignore the nexus cannon. Terran cheese is just as annoying for Protoss. Widow mine drops, bio drops, banshees, hellbat/ BFH drops (the former is just as useful after waiting the two minutes it takes to upgrade them back to their original damage), etc. 1a-ing to victory? You realize that Protoss players use more spellcasters than any other race, right? Maybe splitting isn't as important as it is for Terran, but 1a? Seriously? Just out of curiosity, what league are you in? And also, do you watch professional StarCraft 2 at all? Protoss is pretty damn 1-A once you get a sizable deathball... how are you going to argue against that? lol jesus... With high templar, blink stalkers, and forcefields, probably. You clearly don't play both P and T... Really? That's your response when I point out several spellcasters that Protoss need to control properly (plus the msc), when responding to the assertion that Protoss can just 1a and automatically win? "Oh yeah, well you don't play Terran!" ??? Regardless of whether or not Terrans need to micro more, that doesn't mean Protoss players don't need to micro at all. It's a complete non sequitur. Theres really not much else to say when you are arguing that using blink stalkers and sentries in the lategame is hard... Strawman Having an army =/= It's lategame But I'm done too. I don't think I need to repeat anything I've said, especially when high templar and mothership cores apparently autocast anything I want, perfectly, without me needing to micro.
Is that feature in the settings, because my mothership core doesn't do that? It does like to get in the way when I try to micro my stalkers and cast FFs. Nothing like trying to cast a nexus cannon on emptry ground when you really wanted a force field.
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On July 11 2013 06:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 06:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 06:12 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 06:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:58 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:45 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:18 Rhaegal wrote:On July 11 2013 05:09 Big J wrote:
[quote]
Im implying that Terran is by no means underpowered in TvP lategame just because Flash's Ghost control was horrible against Parting and his gameplan (BCs vs Tempests) more than just questionable.
I was just interpreting TheAwesomes post the other of two possible ways. Protoss is allowed to make more mistakes in late game than Terran, if the trade is even they reinforce instantly, meaning that Terran needs to win every fight handily or else he dies. Nexus cannon killed every all in, or even the common things like 7 marine pressure we saw in WoL. I really thing Protoss is too strong in TvP. Their cheese and all ins are so much more powerful (1 oracle killing 5 marines is simply silly) and a lot of maps are so hard to hold off a simple blink stalker all in, they get free map hacks early game with MSC and hallucination, and now with hellbat nerf chargelot all ins just got so much stronger. I would switch to ZvP, but the vs P matchup looks pretty similar for them as well. Even when 2x as fast, he simply turtles up and can win from 1 a move engagement if your engagement is perfect. Is there a reason they need the fastest and cheapest upgrades? Holy cow. Terran needs to win every engagement because they have to wait for their units to finish instead of waiting for a cooldown? I don't even know how to respond to that, besides "No; you're wrong". Nexus cannon kills every all-in? Maybe it can thwart off some early pressure, but that's far different than all-ins, especially when a stimmed bio army can shoot down a nexus in five seconds flat and completely ignore the nexus cannon. Terran cheese is just as annoying for Protoss. Widow mine drops, bio drops, banshees, hellbat/ BFH drops (the former is just as useful after waiting the two minutes it takes to upgrade them back to their original damage), etc. 1a-ing to victory? You realize that Protoss players use more spellcasters than any other race, right? Maybe splitting isn't as important as it is for Terran, but 1a? Seriously? Just out of curiosity, what league are you in? And also, do you watch professional StarCraft 2 at all? Protoss is pretty damn 1-A once you get a sizable deathball... how are you going to argue against that? lol jesus... With high templar, blink stalkers, and forcefields, probably. You clearly don't play both P and T... Really? That's your response when I point out several spellcasters that Protoss need to control properly (plus the msc), when responding to the assertion that Protoss can just 1a and automatically win? "Oh yeah, well you don't play Terran!" ??? Regardless of whether or not Terrans need to micro more, that doesn't mean Protoss players don't need to micro at all. It's a complete non sequitur. Theres really not much else to say when you are arguing that using blink stalkers and sentries in the lategame is hard... Strawman Having an army =/= It's lategame But I'm done too. I don't think I need to repeat anything I've said, especially when high templar and mothership cores apparently autocast anything I want, perfectly, without me needing to micro. Is that feature in the settings, because my mothership core doesn't do that? It does like to get in the way when I try to micro my stalkers and cast FFs. Nothing like trying to cast a nexus cannon on emptry ground when you really wanted a force field.
Every Protoss player knows exactly how you feel x.x
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On July 11 2013 06:21 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 06:19 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2013 06:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 06:12 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 06:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:58 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:45 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:18 Rhaegal wrote:
[quote]
Protoss is allowed to make more mistakes in late game than Terran, if the trade is even they reinforce instantly, meaning that Terran needs to win every fight handily or else he dies. Nexus cannon killed every all in, or even the common things like 7 marine pressure we saw in WoL.
I really thing Protoss is too strong in TvP. Their cheese and all ins are so much more powerful (1 oracle killing 5 marines is simply silly) and a lot of maps are so hard to hold off a simple blink stalker all in, they get free map hacks early game with MSC and hallucination, and now with hellbat nerf chargelot all ins just got so much stronger.
I would switch to ZvP, but the vs P matchup looks pretty similar for them as well. Even when 2x as fast, he simply turtles up and can win from 1 a move engagement if your engagement is perfect. Is there a reason they need the fastest and cheapest upgrades? Holy cow. Terran needs to win every engagement because they have to wait for their units to finish instead of waiting for a cooldown? I don't even know how to respond to that, besides "No; you're wrong". Nexus cannon kills every all-in? Maybe it can thwart off some early pressure, but that's far different than all-ins, especially when a stimmed bio army can shoot down a nexus in five seconds flat and completely ignore the nexus cannon. Terran cheese is just as annoying for Protoss. Widow mine drops, bio drops, banshees, hellbat/ BFH drops (the former is just as useful after waiting the two minutes it takes to upgrade them back to their original damage), etc. 1a-ing to victory? You realize that Protoss players use more spellcasters than any other race, right? Maybe splitting isn't as important as it is for Terran, but 1a? Seriously? Just out of curiosity, what league are you in? And also, do you watch professional StarCraft 2 at all? Protoss is pretty damn 1-A once you get a sizable deathball... how are you going to argue against that? lol jesus... With high templar, blink stalkers, and forcefields, probably. You clearly don't play both P and T... Really? That's your response when I point out several spellcasters that Protoss need to control properly (plus the msc), when responding to the assertion that Protoss can just 1a and automatically win? "Oh yeah, well you don't play Terran!" ??? Regardless of whether or not Terrans need to micro more, that doesn't mean Protoss players don't need to micro at all. It's a complete non sequitur. Theres really not much else to say when you are arguing that using blink stalkers and sentries in the lategame is hard... Strawman Having an army =/= It's lategame But I'm done too. I don't think I need to repeat anything I've said, especially when high templar and mothership cores apparently autocast anything I want, perfectly, without me needing to micro. Is that feature in the settings, because my mothership core doesn't do that? It does like to get in the way when I try to micro my stalkers and cast FFs. Nothing like trying to cast a nexus cannon on emptry ground when you really wanted a force field. Every Protoss player knows exactly how you feel x.x
Every time it happens and the zerglings pop my sentries like little snowglobes, I want to scream at the Mother Ship Core: "YOU SEE THIS IS WHY YOU CAN"T HAVE FRIEND!?!? NOW WE HAVE TO RECALL! I HOPE YOUR PROUD OF YOURSELF!"
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On July 11 2013 05:58 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 05:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:45 SupLilSon wrote:On July 11 2013 05:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 05:18 Rhaegal wrote:On July 11 2013 05:09 Big J wrote:On July 11 2013 03:03 TheDwf wrote:On July 11 2013 02:28 Big J wrote:On July 11 2013 02:09 TheAwesomeAll wrote:On July 11 2013 01:55 Wobaq wrote:
can we all just agree TvP is total bullshit? yes sure, imo the core completely screwed the mechanic of early pressure vs late game weakness of tvp. The threat of terran cheeses is almost completely gone and protoss can play really greedily until the 2 medivac timing. In my opinion the nexus cannon lasts too long and costs too little for early pressure to pay of. Either the core needs to be nerved or lategame tvp must get more balanced. i dont think buffing protoss to get better vs mass ghost/viking will make the matchup better Sorry, are you seriously implying that lategame TvP is Terran-favored? Im implying that Terran is by no means underpowered in TvP lategame just because Flash's Ghost control was horrible against Parting and his gameplan (BCs vs Tempests) more than just questionable. I was just interpreting TheAwesomes post the other of two possible ways. Protoss is allowed to make more mistakes in late game than Terran, if the trade is even they reinforce instantly, meaning that Terran needs to win every fight handily or else he dies. Nexus cannon killed every all in, or even the common things like 7 marine pressure we saw in WoL. I really thing Protoss is too strong in TvP. Their cheese and all ins are so much more powerful (1 oracle killing 5 marines is simply silly) and a lot of maps are so hard to hold off a simple blink stalker all in, they get free map hacks early game with MSC and hallucination, and now with hellbat nerf chargelot all ins just got so much stronger. I would switch to ZvP, but the vs P matchup looks pretty similar for them as well. Even when 2x as fast, he simply turtles up and can win from 1 a move engagement if your engagement is perfect. Is there a reason they need the fastest and cheapest upgrades? Holy cow. Terran needs to win every engagement because they have to wait for their units to finish instead of waiting for a cooldown? I don't even know how to respond to that, besides "No; you're wrong". Nexus cannon kills every all-in? Maybe it can thwart off some early pressure, but that's far different than all-ins, especially when a stimmed bio army can shoot down a nexus in five seconds flat and completely ignore the nexus cannon. Terran cheese is just as annoying for Protoss. Widow mine drops, bio drops, banshees, hellbat/ BFH drops (the former is just as useful after waiting the two minutes it takes to upgrade them back to their original damage), etc. 1a-ing to victory? You realize that Protoss players use more spellcasters than any other race, right? Maybe splitting isn't as important as it is for Terran, but 1a? Seriously? Just out of curiosity, what league are you in? And also, do you watch professional StarCraft 2 at all? Protoss is pretty damn 1-A once you get a sizable deathball... how are you going to argue against that? lol jesus... With high templar, blink stalkers, and forcefields, probably. You clearly don't play both P and T... Not to mention forcefields and blink stalkers are rarely used in the lategame... which is what we are talking about...
Blink Stalkers are pretty useful against Vikings, unless you mean like 7 base vs 7 base 50 Gateways late game.
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ITT: Protoss circle-jerk.
On topic, if 2 typical lategame armies a-move eachother; the protoss deathball will roll over the terran
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On July 11 2013 06:31 plogamer wrote:
ITT: Protoss circle-jerk.
On topic, if 2 typical lategame armies a-move eachother; the protoss deathball will roll over the terran
ITT: Protoss players defending the absurd notion that no micro or unit control is involved in playing their race. I'd expect any race's players to oppose such a silly assertion.
On topic, if 2 typical lategame armies a-move eachother, then the opponents clearly don't know how to play the game.
Why bother making ridiculous hypothetical situations that just don't happen in actual games?
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On July 11 2013 06:31 plogamer wrote:
ITT: Protoss circle-jerk.
On topic, if 2 typical lategame armies a-move eachother; the protoss deathball will roll over the terran
Oh man, he got it guys, he got it. The game is imbalanced and terran is the hardest race of all time. Stop the presses.
You do know that most zerg armies will lose if you A move them into a fully upgraded terran army too right? And if its protoss vs protoss, the one with more colossi wins. None of this proves anything.
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DarkPlasmaBall and Plansix sitting in a tree, K-i-s-s-i-n-g.
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On July 11 2013 06:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 06:31 plogamer wrote:
ITT: Protoss circle-jerk.
On topic, if 2 typical lategame armies a-move eachother; the protoss deathball will roll over the terran Oh man, he got it guys, he got it. The game is imbalanced and terran is the hardest race of all time. Stop the presses. It's not even strictly true, anyway.
Your colossi would arrive ahead of the zealots, your high templar would lag behind, and you'd lose the engagement outright.
If he's referring to zealot-archon...zealot-archon is terrible unless you have vastly greater army cost. Even focusing the archons is enough to turn that engagement for the Terran.
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Haha! Loving the banter DPB and Plansix. It's given me a few chuckles at work today. The persistent (and high pitched) Terran whine is all the more funny (not to mention ironic) given the recent (and only partly tongue in cheek) whine poll thread.
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On July 11 2013 06:44 Sapphire.lux wrote:
DarkPlasmaBall and Plansix sitting in a tree, K-i-s-s-i-n-g.
Well we're both Protoss, so I think it'd be more apt to say:
DarkPlasmaBall and Plansix sitting in a tree, M-e-r-g-i-n-g.
I'll be the dark templar, and he can be the high templar 
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On July 11 2013 06:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 06:31 plogamer wrote:
ITT: Protoss circle-jerk.
On topic, if 2 typical lategame armies a-move eachother; the protoss deathball will roll over the terran ITT: Protoss players defending the absurd notion that no micro or unit control is involved in playing their race. I'd expect any race's players to oppose such a silly assertion. On topic, if 2 typical lategame armies a-move eachother, then the opponents clearly don't know how to play the game. Why bother making ridiculous hypothetical situations that just don't happen in actual games?
It is not a completely ridiculous notion to compare two typical late-game armies and their performance without micro. It tells us which army is more forgiving if both sides make equal mistakes. The army that is superior without micro will be superior with equivalent micro mistakes.
/edit
And at higher levels when you can force mistakes by drawing attention with drops, warp-ins; a-move units shine more. Not that Terran is underpowered at the highest levels of play - but Protoss whining about micro in this thread is ridiculous.
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EPT
