|
On July 11 2013 07:51 Wobaq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:44 Plansix wrote:
Seriously, if this is your example of a protoss 1-a army, you need to find one where they don't also have 4 times the supply. Did you know that 160 supply of protoss can also 1-a over 40 suppy of terran? My real point is that protoss has 5+ 1 base all ins and terran doesn't have a single one and has to scout each one out carefully to know how to defend and even if you scout them out it can still work. Meanwhile protoss can skip scouting and be safe vs everything. Then protoss just needs to turtle until late game to have another massive advantage.
I like how you cut out the part that Naniwa's army was nearly 40 supply and Lucifron had 10 supply in army and 40 supply in workers. Your balance whine is terrible. It not the protoss players fault that you are terrible at scouting and also happen to play greedy.
|
On July 11 2013 07:59 Wobaq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 07:51 Wobaq wrote:On July 11 2013 07:44 Plansix wrote:
Seriously, if this is your example of a protoss 1-a army, you need to find one where they don't also have 4 times the supply. Did you know that 160 supply of protoss can also 1-a over 40 suppy of terran? My real point is that protoss has 5+ 1 base all ins and terran doesn't have a single one and has to scout each one out carefully to know how to defend and even if you scout them out it can still work. Meanwhile protoss can skip scouting and be safe vs everything. Then protoss just needs to turtle until late game to have another massive advantage. No, that's not your point. You're just completely changing the topic now because Lucifron didn't properly prepare for Naniwa. And you have no evidence for the rest of your claims, and some of your statements (e.g., "protoss can skip scouting and be safe vs everything") are complete crap. EDIT: I'm done with this thread for now. Your (and others') whining is just so... toxic, unjustified, and hyperbolic. That game shows how even scouting an all in and reacting with 5 bunkers still leaves you vulnerable. Just imagine how hard it would be to defend if he didn't scout it. Now name a single viable 1 base build terrans can do vs protoss or even early aggression they have do that isn't instantly shut down by nexus cannon. When's the last time you saw a banshee in TvP?
Yeah man those 7 Marines and 3 Marauders should totally be able to hold against 2 Immortals, a bunch of Sentries, some Zealots and Stalkers just because of 400 minerals (1 bunker is empty) even though SCVs aren't even in position.
I've seen Terran players occasionally cheese Protoss players with things like Helbat/Helbat drop openers and occasionally Widow Mine openers. They're gimmicky and often fail, but they definitely don't lose to Nexus Cannon alone.
|
On July 11 2013 08:01 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:51 Wobaq wrote:On July 11 2013 07:44 Plansix wrote:
Seriously, if this is your example of a protoss 1-a army, you need to find one where they don't also have 4 times the supply. Did you know that 160 supply of protoss can also 1-a over 40 suppy of terran? My real point is that protoss has 5+ 1 base all ins and terran doesn't have a single one and has to scout each one out carefully to know how to defend and even if you scout them out it can still work. Meanwhile protoss can skip scouting and be safe vs everything. Then protoss just needs to turtle until late game to have another massive advantage. Most Protoss 1 base all-ins generally suck. Just because Naniwa won once against Lucifron (who prepared badly and had almost no units) doesn't mean that that all-in is suddenly super effective. I mean, you can always open with a Helbat drop if you really want. It probably won't work if the Protoss scouts/isn't dumb, but it will win you the game sometimes. Same with Widow Mine drops and stuff. It works sometimes, but macro is better. Shrug. Also if you skip scouting as Protoss you're gonna lose because you're not going to see any drops or army movements.
They suck so bad they work in Code S games. They suck so bad they work at the top foreigner level. Even a 4gate follow up from an expand can be game ending which is incredibly hard to scout for.
You don't need to rush scouting as P and check every corner of the map for a proxy like terran has to. Doing a 1 gate FE is so much safe than doing a 1 rax FE.
I like how you cut out the part that Naniwa's army was nearly 40 supply and Lucifron had 10 supply in army and 40 supply in workers. Your balance whine is terrible. It not the protoss players fault that you are terrible at scouting and also happen to play greedy.
Why are you trying to make this about me? TvP is my best match up. Opening with a reaper into reactor expand is considered greedy while 1 gate FE into forge and robo is completely safe. That's my point.
|
On July 11 2013 08:05 Wobaq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 08:01 Shiori wrote:On July 11 2013 07:51 Wobaq wrote:On July 11 2013 07:44 Plansix wrote:
Seriously, if this is your example of a protoss 1-a army, you need to find one where they don't also have 4 times the supply. Did you know that 160 supply of protoss can also 1-a over 40 suppy of terran? My real point is that protoss has 5+ 1 base all ins and terran doesn't have a single one and has to scout each one out carefully to know how to defend and even if you scout them out it can still work. Meanwhile protoss can skip scouting and be safe vs everything. Then protoss just needs to turtle until late game to have another massive advantage. Most Protoss 1 base all-ins generally suck. Just because Naniwa won once against Lucifron (who prepared badly and had almost no units) doesn't mean that that all-in is suddenly super effective. I mean, you can always open with a Helbat drop if you really want. It probably won't work if the Protoss scouts/isn't dumb, but it will win you the game sometimes. Same with Widow Mine drops and stuff. It works sometimes, but macro is better. Shrug. Also if you skip scouting as Protoss you're gonna lose because you're not going to see any drops or army movements. They suck so bad they work in Code S games. They suck so bad they work at the top foreigner level. Even a 4gate follow up from an expand can be game ending which is incredibly hard to scout for. You don't need to rush scouting as P and check every corner of the map for a proxy like terran has to. Doing a 1 gate FE is so much safe than doing a 1 rax FE.
You keep typing stuff, but all that comes out is "whine, whine whine". Seriously, don't even compare your problems to Code S players. They prepare for their opponents and if one base play works, they are likely exploiting a weakness in their opponents play.
Also, all protoss need to check different parts of the map for proxy terran non-sense. MVP has taught us that.
|
On July 11 2013 08:05 Wobaq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 08:01 Shiori wrote:On July 11 2013 07:51 Wobaq wrote:On July 11 2013 07:44 Plansix wrote:
Seriously, if this is your example of a protoss 1-a army, you need to find one where they don't also have 4 times the supply. Did you know that 160 supply of protoss can also 1-a over 40 suppy of terran? My real point is that protoss has 5+ 1 base all ins and terran doesn't have a single one and has to scout each one out carefully to know how to defend and even if you scout them out it can still work. Meanwhile protoss can skip scouting and be safe vs everything. Then protoss just needs to turtle until late game to have another massive advantage. Most Protoss 1 base all-ins generally suck. Just because Naniwa won once against Lucifron (who prepared badly and had almost no units) doesn't mean that that all-in is suddenly super effective. I mean, you can always open with a Helbat drop if you really want. It probably won't work if the Protoss scouts/isn't dumb, but it will win you the game sometimes. Same with Widow Mine drops and stuff. It works sometimes, but macro is better. Shrug. Also if you skip scouting as Protoss you're gonna lose because you're not going to see any drops or army movements. They suck so bad they work in Code S games. They suck so bad they work at the top foreigner level. Even a 4gate follow up from an expand can be game ending which is incredibly hard to scout for.
Work != always works or works reliably. Most Code S games which feature all-ins are the result of planning designed to take advantage of a certain style of play (i.e. assuming your opponent goes lowground CC into 3OC). 2/2 Viking Timings are really good against Toss, but they're not imbalanced even though they're really hard to hold properly.
You don't need to rush scouting as P and check every corner of the map for a proxy like terran has to. Doing a 1 gate FE is so much safe than doing a 1 rax FE.
You can usually infer a proxy from your initial scout of the gas timings + unit count/composition at the main. Besides there's like one or two spots proxies tend to go on most maps. If you scout fast double gas with 3 Probes on each, scout for proxies (if you opened Reaper you should be able to find proxies pretty much every time unless you miscontrol and lose the Reaper which is your fault)
Yes, 1Gate FE is safer than 1rax FE. So? Going 3OC is much safer than going Gate Nexus Nexus.
Why are you trying to make this about me? TvP is my best match up. Opening with a reaper into reactor expand is considered greedy while 1 gate FE into forge and robo is completely safe. That's my point.
Going Reaper into Reactor Expand is greedy because you cut all immediate unit count. 1 Gate Forge Robo would take a lot of damage versus pre-meditated Terran openers (even a vanilla Reactor Hellion runby would kill a lot of Probes most likely) and generally reduces unit count around the midgame, forcing Protoss to delay before taking a third since their unit count is low.
|
On July 11 2013 08:08 Plansix wrote:
You keep typing stuff, but all that comes out is "whine, whine whine". Seriously, don't even compare your problems to Code S players. They prepare for their opponents and if one base play works, they are likely exploiting a weakness in their opponents play.
Also, all protoss need to check different parts of the map for proxy terran non-sense. MVP has taught us that.
This isn't WoL this is HotS. Nexus cannon defends vs all. I'm not comparing my problems, I'm talking about gameplay as a whole in this match up.
You're ignoring all my points and just calling them whine. Is it you just don't want to admit I'm right and PvT is laughably easy to win from the protoss side?
You can usually infer a proxy from your initial scout of the gas timings + unit count/composition at the main. Besides there's like one or two spots proxies tend to go on most maps. If you scout fast double gas with 3 Probes on each, scout for proxies (if you opened Reaper you should be able to find proxies pretty much every time unless you miscontrol and lose the Reaper which is your fault)
Proxy blink / DT can be anywhere. Proxy robo is usually closer while proxy stargate can be farther away and in several spots. 2 in each gas isn't a very big tell and can be an expand.
Also how was Lucifron supposed to scout the 4 gate follow up coming in game 3?
|
On July 11 2013 07:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:35 Wobaq wrote:On July 11 2013 07:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 07:16 Wobaq wrote:http://i.imgur.com/Xw8RRYZ.jpgwhere my 1-a up a ramp and drop a couple forcefields with 350-400 ping after having my all in scouted and still win bros @? Seriously? Lucifron has the equivalent of three full bunkers, and Naniwa is up 13 supply (meaning he probably has twice as big an army). Also, forcefielding is not 1a-ing lol Dropping forcefields is the easiest micro next to 1-Aing in the game. He's up 13 supply because he is doing an all in while lucifron has to spend money on expanding and getting his orbitals as well as some tech since bio units are very weak before stim. Being able to attack up a choke into 5 bunkers after getting scouted out is funny while there is not a single 1 base build terran can do versus protoss. And if his micro was really hard I think he would have suffered from the massive delay he had to play with. I guess delay doesn't matter when all you have to do is 1-A and then F click 3 times. Are you fucking kidding me? Naniwa has somewhere are around 38 supply in army, including 2 immortals. Lucifron has 10 supply in units in bunkers. I would fucking hope Naniwa would win that fight, bunkers or not. I don't even think the force fields would have mattered in this one. Seriously, if this is your example of a protoss 1-a army, you need to find one where they don't also have 4 times the supply. Did you know that 160 supply of protoss can also 1-a over 40 suppy of terran?
I remember SoS going Nexus first and holding off proxy 11/11 with MSC. How much effort did that require?
|
On July 11 2013 08:13 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:44 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2013 07:35 Wobaq wrote:On July 11 2013 07:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 07:16 Wobaq wrote:http://i.imgur.com/Xw8RRYZ.jpgwhere my 1-a up a ramp and drop a couple forcefields with 350-400 ping after having my all in scouted and still win bros @? Seriously? Lucifron has the equivalent of three full bunkers, and Naniwa is up 13 supply (meaning he probably has twice as big an army). Also, forcefielding is not 1a-ing lol Dropping forcefields is the easiest micro next to 1-Aing in the game. He's up 13 supply because he is doing an all in while lucifron has to spend money on expanding and getting his orbitals as well as some tech since bio units are very weak before stim. Being able to attack up a choke into 5 bunkers after getting scouted out is funny while there is not a single 1 base build terran can do versus protoss. And if his micro was really hard I think he would have suffered from the massive delay he had to play with. I guess delay doesn't matter when all you have to do is 1-A and then F click 3 times. Are you fucking kidding me? Naniwa has somewhere are around 38 supply in army, including 2 immortals. Lucifron has 10 supply in units in bunkers. I would fucking hope Naniwa would win that fight, bunkers or not. I don't even think the force fields would have mattered in this one. Seriously, if this is your example of a protoss 1-a army, you need to find one where they don't also have 4 times the supply. Did you know that 160 supply of protoss can also 1-a over 40 suppy of terran? I remember SoS going Nexus first and holding off proxy 11/11 with MSC. How much effort did that require?
Holding 11/11 with just a MSC is extremely difficult.
|
On July 11 2013 08:11 Wobaq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 08:08 Plansix wrote:
You keep typing stuff, but all that comes out is "whine, whine whine". Seriously, don't even compare your problems to Code S players. They prepare for their opponents and if one base play works, they are likely exploiting a weakness in their opponents play.
Also, all protoss need to check different parts of the map for proxy terran non-sense. MVP has taught us that. This isn't WoL this is HotS. Nexus cannon defends vs all. I'm not comparing my problems, I'm talking about gameplay as a whole in this match up. You're ignoring all my points and just calling them whine. Is it you just don't want to admit I'm right and PvT is laughably easy to win from the protoss side?
Why would I admit that, its not true? Terran's beat protoss's all the time. And why would I respond to your posts with anything but mocking? You started with posting a 40 supply army vs a 10 supply army as an example as to how easy protoss is to control and then claimed the nexus solves the protoss problems.
Seriously, your examples suck and your argument is "Why won't you agree that protoss is easier? It fact, all my terran buddies say so!"
Why would I not mock you?
|
On July 11 2013 08:13 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:44 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2013 07:35 Wobaq wrote:On July 11 2013 07:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2013 07:16 Wobaq wrote:http://i.imgur.com/Xw8RRYZ.jpgwhere my 1-a up a ramp and drop a couple forcefields with 350-400 ping after having my all in scouted and still win bros @? Seriously? Lucifron has the equivalent of three full bunkers, and Naniwa is up 13 supply (meaning he probably has twice as big an army). Also, forcefielding is not 1a-ing lol Dropping forcefields is the easiest micro next to 1-Aing in the game. He's up 13 supply because he is doing an all in while lucifron has to spend money on expanding and getting his orbitals as well as some tech since bio units are very weak before stim. Being able to attack up a choke into 5 bunkers after getting scouted out is funny while there is not a single 1 base build terran can do versus protoss. And if his micro was really hard I think he would have suffered from the massive delay he had to play with. I guess delay doesn't matter when all you have to do is 1-A and then F click 3 times. Are you fucking kidding me? Naniwa has somewhere are around 38 supply in army, including 2 immortals. Lucifron has 10 supply in units in bunkers. I would fucking hope Naniwa would win that fight, bunkers or not. I don't even think the force fields would have mattered in this one. Seriously, if this is your example of a protoss 1-a army, you need to find one where they don't also have 4 times the supply. Did you know that 160 supply of protoss can also 1-a over 40 suppy of terran? I remember SoS going Nexus first and holding off proxy 11/11 with MSC. How much effort did that require?
Remember when MVP won with proxy 2 rax even after it was scouted and became GSL champion. Some days, GSL players are just that good.
|
On July 11 2013 08:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 08:11 Wobaq wrote:On July 11 2013 08:08 Plansix wrote:
You keep typing stuff, but all that comes out is "whine, whine whine". Seriously, don't even compare your problems to Code S players. They prepare for their opponents and if one base play works, they are likely exploiting a weakness in their opponents play.
Also, all protoss need to check different parts of the map for proxy terran non-sense. MVP has taught us that. This isn't WoL this is HotS. Nexus cannon defends vs all. I'm not comparing my problems, I'm talking about gameplay as a whole in this match up. You're ignoring all my points and just calling them whine. Is it you just don't want to admit I'm right and PvT is laughably easy to win from the protoss side? Why would I admit that, its not true? Terran's beat protoss's all the time. And why would I respond to your posts with anything but mocking? You started with posting a 40 supply army vs a 10 supply army as an example as to how easy protoss is to control and then claimed the nexus solves the protoss problems. Seriously, your examples suck and your argument is "Why won't you agree that protoss is easier? It fact, all my terran buddies say so!" Why would I not mock you?
Can you respond to my last post instead of namecalling?
|
Did you guys not see Korean PvT winrate in June... 56.6%...
|
On July 11 2013 08:20 Wobaq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 08:16 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2013 08:11 Wobaq wrote:On July 11 2013 08:08 Plansix wrote:
You keep typing stuff, but all that comes out is "whine, whine whine". Seriously, don't even compare your problems to Code S players. They prepare for their opponents and if one base play works, they are likely exploiting a weakness in their opponents play.
Also, all protoss need to check different parts of the map for proxy terran non-sense. MVP has taught us that. This isn't WoL this is HotS. Nexus cannon defends vs all. I'm not comparing my problems, I'm talking about gameplay as a whole in this match up. You're ignoring all my points and just calling them whine. Is it you just don't want to admit I'm right and PvT is laughably easy to win from the protoss side? Why would I admit that, its not true? Terran's beat protoss's all the time. And why would I respond to your posts with anything but mocking? You started with posting a 40 supply army vs a 10 supply army as an example as to how easy protoss is to control and then claimed the nexus solves the protoss problems. Seriously, your examples suck and your argument is "Why won't you agree that protoss is easier? It fact, all my terran buddies say so!" Why would I not mock you? Can you respond to my last post instead of namecalling?
Your wrong and your examples are bad. You prove nothing and only claim that protoss is easier because you want it to be that way to justify your losses to it.
|
On July 11 2013 08:22 Plansix wrote:
Your wrong and your examples are bad. You prove nothing and only claim that protoss is easier because you want it to be that way to justify your losses to it.
When's the last time you saw a 1/1/1 in HotS?
Protoss is easier. Everyone knows this. I never said anything about my losses and my best win rate is in TvP.
|
On July 11 2013 08:23 Wobaq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 08:22 Plansix wrote:
Your wrong and your examples are bad. You prove nothing and only claim that protoss is easier because you want it to be that way to justify your losses to it. When's the last time you saw a 1/1/1 in HotS? Protoss is easier. Everyone knows this. I never said anything about my losses and my best win rate is in TvP.
Just because you say it a lot doesn't make it true. I know you want to think your so much better than the people in your league that play other races, but it just isn't that case.
|
On July 11 2013 08:26 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 08:23 Wobaq wrote:On July 11 2013 08:22 Plansix wrote:
Your wrong and your examples are bad. You prove nothing and only claim that protoss is easier because you want it to be that way to justify your losses to it. When's the last time you saw a 1/1/1 in HotS? Protoss is easier. Everyone knows this. I never said anything about my losses and my best win rate is in TvP. Just because you say it a lot doesn't make it true. I know you want to think your so much better than the people in your league that play other races, but it just isn't that case.
Protoss is the objectively easier race in PvT.
|
Protoss players tend to be nerds, Terran players tend to be jocks. That's the general rule of thumb.
If it's any consolation to Terrans, I'm sure girls find them more attractive (at least before the age of 30).
|
On July 11 2013 08:26 Wobaq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 08:26 Plansix wrote:On July 11 2013 08:23 Wobaq wrote:On July 11 2013 08:22 Plansix wrote:
Your wrong and your examples are bad. You prove nothing and only claim that protoss is easier because you want it to be that way to justify your losses to it. When's the last time you saw a 1/1/1 in HotS? Protoss is easier. Everyone knows this. I never said anything about my losses and my best win rate is in TvP. Just because you say it a lot doesn't make it true. I know you want to think your so much better than the people in your league that play other races, but it just isn't that case. Protoss is the objectively easier race in PvT.
All right, this argument is over, you are just wrong and don't know what you are talking about. I know your new to TL, but you want to avoid discussions like this outside of this thread. Calling one race easier generally goes over poorly.
On July 11 2013 08:27 GreenGringo wrote:
Protoss players tend to be nerds, Terran players tend to be jocks. That's the general rule of thumb.
If it's any consolation to Terrans, I'm sure girls find them more attractive (at least before the age of 30).
And zerg players are party animals, Stephano, Neastea and DRG know how to throw down like bosses.
Terran's get all the ladies, look at Thorzain and Polt. Both doing well in the lady department.
|
On July 11 2013 08:27 GreenGringo wrote:
Protoss players tend to be nerds, Terran players tend to be jocks. That's the general rule of thumb.
If it's any consolation to Terrans, I'm sure girls find them more attractive (at least before the age of 30).
Protoss players into sci fi and technology. Terran players just want to kick ass.
|
On July 11 2013 08:22 Rhaegal wrote:
Did you guys not see Korean PvT winrate in June... 56.6%...
Have you seen Proleague? Kespa is like 60% protoss.
And 56.6% for one month with so few games is a non-issue.
Also it's pretty easy to see as a casual observer to this thread that you won't be happy until you get it all off your chest, irrespective of responses. It's a good thing we have a thread like this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
