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Or terrans will start sniping warp prisms. What is it, 3 snipes?
Its not bio so you can't snipe it. Still, if they keep a handful of marines and stim and target fire or even a move to insta kill the dropping templar would really be impossible to avoid. Or even auto attack with ghosts. Warp prisms have what 140 hp? that's 14 shots from at least 6 ghosts, if you throw in an EMP that's 2 rounds or 3 seconds. I don't think warp prism is a good answer tbh 
I would really appreciate if someone can show me where I'm wrong, because I really want to stick with protoss but I feel like terran is just a much better race :/
EDIT: clarity
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Balance wise, I think fungal growth may be a -bit- too strong, still. It just mops the floor with pretty much any other damage spell in the game.
I also feel that hunter seeker missile needs revision badly. Even with fabulous micro, it's just not worth it in 95% of situations.
Ghosts aren't all that OP, IMO. If you watch the games, if protoss simply stopped attacking in a giant ball and rather tried some positioning, they would do much better.
Watching tvp right now just bleeds of the immortal all-in during beta that was unbeatable. No changes to the immortal were made, but terrans just figured it out.
Also, arguing about homogenizing HT, infest, and ghost is just silly. They're supposed to be asymmetrical.
On August 21 2011 21:22 Huntz wrote:Its not bio so you can't snipe it. Still, if they keep a handful of marines and stim and target fire or even a move to insta kill the dropping templar would really be impossible to avoid. Or even auto attack with ghosts. Warp prisms have what 140 hp? that's 14 shots from at least 6 ghosts, if you throw in an EMP that's 2 rounds or 3 seconds. I don't think warp prism is a good answer tbh I would really appreciate if someone can show me where I'm wrong, because I really want to stick with protoss but I feel like terran is just a much better race :/ EDIT: clarity
please god don't play "the better race." That's just silly. Protoss are a fine race, zerg are fine, and terran are fine.
If you're not exceedingly high masters, the "balance" of the three races has nothing to do with it, and things like macro are the problem. If you can't build probes, you won't be able to build SCV's any better.
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On August 21 2011 22:44 Honeybadger wrote:
Watching tvp right now just bleeds of the immortal all-in during beta that was unbeatable. No changes to the immortal were made, but terrans just figured it out.
Immortal build time was increased in early patches. Don't wanna say that terrans never evolved, but patches definitely helped them (for example colossi, VR, zealot, WP nerfs).
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On August 16 2011 07:10 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:
blue flame hellion is too good imo against terran and zerg, a teir one unit that only cost 100 minerals should not be able to clear out an entire worker line in seconds, and there is no other counter part seen in the game currently. Bangling drops comes to mind, but zerg has to reseach ov speed, drop, and melee weapons +2 in order to have the same effect as two blue hellions. Hellions should cost gas or blue flame research should require an armory.
+1,blue flame hellions are to strong especially in early game(vs Z), and imo to fast..I
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yeah, i also dont understand why Terran has 2 mineral only units (+ warpprisms), when the first one is the best all purpose unit in the whole game. i dont say marines are imba, but i think they do fine in every phase of the game and because of that i dont see the need for a second min only unit.
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I think the game balance is very good right now, I think only a few minor adjustments are needed
1) The bluflame bonus should only apply to normal light units, not vs workers.
2) Fungal needs to have a slight damage nerf.
3) Infested Terran should cost slightly more energy to cast.
3) Snipe should do bonus damage vs Massive Units in order to better balance TvZ late game.
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please god don't play "the better race." That's just silly. Protoss are a fine race, zerg are fine, and terran are fine.
If you're not exceedingly high masters, the "balance" of the three races has nothing to do with it, and things like macro are the problem. If you can't build probes, you won't be able to build SCV's any better.
Well I don't think its silly if one race is better, and frankly you've done nothing to show me why ghosts out range HTs so badly, why Terran needs SO MANY harassment options that are a relatively small investment AND cost effective in straight up battles when compared to DTs/phoenix and gateway drops, and why Terran has so many all-ins, one of them having extreme success in the GSL.
Even if its only a psychological thing, I want to play a race that I feel is strong and equal to the others. I did play a custom as Terran and it was very difficult because I'm just not used to it. I wasn't following a build or anything, I called down the classic 10 mules and floated four thousand minerals. But I could attack whenever because I could retreat easily and fall back on bunkers and repair. I could drop. I didn't have to worry about defending drops or splitting my army. You just have so much more control over the game.
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On August 21 2011 23:17 MockHamill wrote:.
3) Snipe should do bonus damage vs Massive Units in order to better balance TvZ late game.
so you basically want to 2-shot broodlords? ^^
In my oppinion archons are a bit too strong right now, but it could just be not dealing with them very well =)
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On August 21 2011 23:28 StoRm_res wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 23:17 MockHamill wrote:.
3) Snipe should do bonus damage vs Massive Units in order to better balance TvZ late game. so you basically want to 2-shot broodlords? ^^
No right now you need 6 snipes to kill a single BroodLord (5+ 1 for healing factor) and 12(!) to kill an Ultralisk.
By giving Snipe a +15 damage vs Massive it would be sufficient with 4 snipes to kill a BroodLord and 9 snipes to kill an Ultralisk.
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3) Give the warp prism more life.
I'm not convinced this should happen at all. The fact is that with the upgrade the warp prism is by far the fastest shuttle. It's fragility is due to its incredible speed. It's just that people don't bother to get the speed upgrade right now (as well as getting the obs speed upgrade).
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On August 21 2011 23:28 StoRm_res wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 23:17 MockHamill wrote:.
3) Snipe should do bonus damage vs Massive Units in order to better balance TvZ late game. so you basically want to 2-shot broodlords? ^^ In my oppinion archons are a bit too strong right now, but it could just be not dealing with them very well =)
If you get off good emp's they still melt.
Alot of people think they still arent good enough. I find them useless against mutas still (at least in large numbers of archons vs large numbers of mutas) as long as the mutas arent completely bunched up. Its a bit ridiculous as on blizz's help page mutas are the one unit that the archon says it counters.
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On August 21 2011 23:28 StoRm_res wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 23:17 MockHamill wrote:.
3) Snipe should do bonus damage vs Massive Units in order to better balance TvZ late game. so you basically want to 2-shot broodlords? ^^ In my oppinion archons are a bit too strong right now, but it could just be not dealing with them very well =)
Yeah, it makes sense that a slight buff would turn them from a joke into into something too strong to stay in the game. I think people just expect them to be shit, and when they are actually being at least slightly cost efficient, people think 'what the fuck man'.
Its a unit that costs 2 templar (100 minerals 300 gas), its supposed to feel powerful.
On August 21 2011 23:40 DoubleReed wrote:I'm not convinced this should happen at all.
Because you dont want to face warp prisms. It'd suck if protoss could effectively harass without losing the warp prism when a queen farts in its general direction. Honestly, how often do you actually face warp prism play? hearing this bullshit reminds me of how people used to tell zerg to 'USE NYDUS LOL ITS OK' when zerg was clearly UP
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Probably been stated before, probably will again. STOP comparing feedback to EMP's, they are NOT there for the same purpose. The whole effective +3 range or whatever on EMP's is ridiculous. In the rare occasion you are willing to expend an EMP on a single HT (if it's ghost vs HT wars before a fight if you are clumping your HT up then range has nothing to do with it) it will almost never eat enough energy to deny a feedback. The argument to spend 2 EMP's on a single HT is ridiculous and shouldn't even need to be explained.
Seriously though, the three races in SC2 are clearly not parallel and were never intended to be parallel. You CANNOT compare two spells, two units, two costs or even two times with another race because they do not translate perfectly over; there are way too many other factors to consider.
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On August 21 2011 23:40 DoubleReed wrote:I'm not convinced this should happen at all. The fact is that with the upgrade the warp prism is by far the fastest shuttle. It's fragility is due to its incredible speed. It's just that people don't bother to get the speed upgrade right now (as well as getting the obs speed upgrade).
The warp prism is fragile because it is fast after being upgraded at a building that is expensive and only obtained to get a different upgrade for a very high tier unit?
That statement makes totally no sense.
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On August 21 2011 23:43 H0i wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 23:40 DoubleReed wrote:3) Give the warp prism more life. I'm not convinced this should happen at all. The fact is that with the upgrade the warp prism is by far the fastest shuttle. It's fragility is due to its incredible speed. It's just that people don't bother to get the speed upgrade right now (as well as getting the obs speed upgrade). The warp prism is fragile because it is fast after being upgraded at a building that is expensive and only obtained to get a different upgrade for a very high tier unit? That statement makes totally no sense.
Just because you only get the robo bay for colossi doesn't meant that's the only way to do things. The warp prism is so fragile because it is the fastest after you get the speed upgrade. Saying "it's expensive" is a little silly considering that the warp prism doesn't cost gas (at least ventral sacs costs 200 gas).
The real point though is that its the fastest shuttle. It should be the most fragile.
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On August 21 2011 23:17 MockHamill wrote:
I think the game balance is very good right now, I think only a few minor adjustments are needed
1) The bluflame bonus should only apply to normal light units, not vs workers.
2) Fungal needs to have a slight damage nerf.
3) Infested Terran should cost slightly more energy to cast.
3) Snipe should do bonus damage vs Massive Units in order to better balance TvZ late game.
Every single one of these changes benefits Terran... I take it TvZ is your worst MU and TvP is your best?
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I'm a Zerg player that has been playing Terran recently, and I tested out the Ghost + Mech lategame composition they talked about on SOTG. How do you beat it? It's great, BL/Infestor doesn't seem that hard to deal with.
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On August 21 2011 23:47 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 23:43 H0i wrote:On August 21 2011 23:40 DoubleReed wrote:3) Give the warp prism more life. I'm not convinced this should happen at all. The fact is that with the upgrade the warp prism is by far the fastest shuttle. It's fragility is due to its incredible speed. It's just that people don't bother to get the speed upgrade right now (as well as getting the obs speed upgrade). The warp prism is fragile because it is fast after being upgraded at a building that is expensive and only obtained to get a different upgrade for a very high tier unit? That statement makes totally no sense. Just because you only get the robo bay for colossi doesn't meant that's the only way to do things. The warp prism is so fragile because it is the fastest after you get the speed upgrade. Saying "it's expensive" is a little silly considering that the warp prism doesn't cost gas (at least ventral sacs costs 200 gas). The real point though is that its the fastest shuttle. It should be the most fragile.
Still that argument makes no sense. Things don't need to be fragile just because they are fast after being upgraded.
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Of course you would be behind this Techno. ;p
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On August 21 2011 23:54 H0i wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 23:47 DoubleReed wrote:On August 21 2011 23:43 H0i wrote:On August 21 2011 23:40 DoubleReed wrote:3) Give the warp prism more life. I'm not convinced this should happen at all. The fact is that with the upgrade the warp prism is by far the fastest shuttle. It's fragility is due to its incredible speed. It's just that people don't bother to get the speed upgrade right now (as well as getting the obs speed upgrade). The warp prism is fragile because it is fast after being upgraded at a building that is expensive and only obtained to get a different upgrade for a very high tier unit? That statement makes totally no sense. Just because you only get the robo bay for colossi doesn't meant that's the only way to do things. The warp prism is so fragile because it is the fastest after you get the speed upgrade. Saying "it's expensive" is a little silly considering that the warp prism doesn't cost gas (at least ventral sacs costs 200 gas). The real point though is that its the fastest shuttle. It should be the most fragile. Still that argument makes no sense. Things don't need to be fragile just because they are fast after being upgraded.
By that logic Marauders and Marines should both have the same HP because they have the same movement speed. The warp prism is fragile, not something you'd expect to ever leave the prototype phase from the Protoss engineers.
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EPT
