EPTDesignated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 364
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xPabt
226 Posts
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Orek
1665 Posts
[D] PvZ - Establishing third with Skytoss (viable?) If we were to fix fungal problem, I don't think entirely removing air damage is the way. There has to be a better way to nerf it. | ||
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Bluerain
United States348 Posts
On October 31 2012 05:12 Lunareste wrote: I'd definitely agree, especially given that Muta and Hydra could definitely function well as anti-air in HOTS. I don't see why Fungal hits air, honestly. If it didn't, we'd see more unit comp variety with Zerg, Zerg would be forced to use more micro and think about their positioning/splitting more as well. It's a win/win, and maybe infestor/broodlord wouldn't completely dominate all 3 matchups in the late game. good things u guys arent in charge of balance. is speed hydra a mid-game unit now? did it get changed from hive tech? i dont follow HOTS. how would zerg even deal with mass phoenix or collossi vray or jus heavy vray in general without fungal hitting air. i guess some ppl just are too lazy to split their are units and want an ez mode. but hey if u want fungal to not hit air then lets make psi storm not hit air. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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xPabt
226 Posts
On October 31 2012 06:34 monkybone wrote: Oh, god, I just watched game 1 of Roro vs happy... Can we please just accept the fact that the TvZ mathcup is retarded right now? lol When INSANE greed meet INSANE aggression, it just shouldn't play out like that. Reminds me of Sparta vs Nestea. Not only did he get 3 hatches before pool, he mined 100 gas which he never used! How is this possible.. Happy was greedy he tried to end the game. He could have killed the 2 hatcheries and be very ahead. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On October 31 2012 06:43 xPabt wrote: Happy was greedy he tried to end the game. He could have killed the 2 hatcheries and be very ahead. Happy was greedy?! | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On October 31 2012 06:07 Bluerain wrote: good things u guys arent in charge of balance. is speed hydra a mid-game unit now? did it get changed from hive tech? i dont follow HOTS. how would zerg even deal with mass phoenix or collossi vray or jus heavy vray in general without fungal hitting air. i guess some ppl just are too lazy to split their are units and want an ez mode. but hey if u want fungal to not hit air then lets make psi storm not hit air. Spore crawlers no longer even require Evo. Hydras in mid to late game. Zerg should have to make some kind of sacrifice to fend off tech from other races, instead of getting to 70 drones for free and having a jack of all trades unit that leads into an ultimate end game army. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
Hydra is already a midgame unit. It's getting a T3 speed upgrade to make it massable in the late game (that is the target at least). | ||
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xPabt
226 Posts
Trying to kill your opponent instead of just getting very ahead is greedy. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Talack
Canada2742 Posts
They simply have "NO RISKS" to take anymore. They can play safe and it WILL WORK every single time now. Queens are just too good at holding off aggression/harassment. They have taken out the "trade larvae for army isntead of workers" aspect of TvZ now and terran are left without being able to catch up without taking enormous risks and even then they are at a disadvantage because of infestors and zerg production capabilities. Terran is severely lacking in splash damage now to where zerg has a ton of it, terran ravens are just a one-time end-the-game unit that works against NOTHING but broodlords/corruptors. Why do infestors work 100% vs every single unit in the game? Infestors need a hard-nerf in order to bring this game back to a playable/watchable state because it's simply terrible at the moment. Blizzard really screwed up big time with so many zerg buffs and dumbing down of the race. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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xPabt
226 Posts
On October 31 2012 07:06 monkybone wrote: Yeah, that's funny. Especially considering that Artosis concluded that Happy should be more up in the Zerg's face and end it. Happy never saw that it was 3 hatch before pool and so he was shooting at the natural hatchery for so long. by the time he finally went for the main the defense was up for roro. He should have just been happy to kill the other 2 hatcheries. If he had scouted the third he could have likely ended the game by pushing the main and not wasting time at the natural. | ||
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BoggieMan
520 Posts
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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xPabt
226 Posts
On October 31 2012 07:24 monkybone wrote: You're missing the point.... 11/11 have killed zergs on 2 hatch before, of course its possible to kill a zerg on 3 hatch. But that it is even possible to defend against a reasonably executed 11/11 with 3 hatch before pool is a sign of a major flaw in TvZ. Zerg just have too easy of a time defending against anything. This was just a comical illustration of that fact. I'm only saying that the happy vs roro game is a terrible example. Happy made a bunch of errors while roro didn't past the build order selection. I've seen Terran hold a 4 gate proxied warp prism allin with 3 CC before extra barracks. Is protoss aggression vs terran underpowered? If you want to make arguements for terran aggresion being too weak find better examples. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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BoxingKangaroo
Japan955 Posts
On October 31 2012 07:40 monkybone wrote: He did mistakes, but not the type of mistakes that makes it reasonable for Zerg to just utterly crush that attack in such a situation. Artosis didn't point out any glaring errors while it was going on, he was thoroughly surprised of the outcome. In shock, even. So I just don't agree with the fairness of the outcome while considering both the economic risk the Zerg took and happys execution. Artosis was just as shocked as wolf and khaldor were when nestea just crushed spartas 1 base aggression on three base with nothing but drones and queens. The problem is that the principles of risk doesnt apply properly to the Zerg matchup. Insane greed cannot be appropriately punished. It is too much on Terrans shoulders to execute the craziest degrees of aggressive moves against the craziest degrees of greedy moves. It doesn't scale, and it is stupid to watch. Where did you see this game of protoss? I must know the reference before I can comment on that. He let his marines get surrounded outside a bunker. Pretty big blunder. | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
2-rax is still a very strong opening after 2+ years of terrans using. It is used quite often at the moment, partly, I think, because of terran frustration, and partly because it is so amazingly effective. If the zerg makes a slight mistake when defending it, they will lose the game instantly. It is only fair that the same conditions go for the aggressor.. If you baneling-bust and blow up your banelings on the CC, well, you won't get much done. | ||
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