|
On July 10 2012 02:35 Crying wrote:
After watching HSC V did you guys see really the true power that Nerchio showed with his BL/Inf/Crawler 15-20minutes timing,which none protoss was able to deflect effectively,they simply died,all of them.
Even with mothership spreaded BL's are just hard to kill.
MaNa pointed out that the perfect army vs this comp is gonna be Phoenix/HT ,and really i see no possible way of breaking a BL/infestor without air.
Are BLs really that good?Or the infestor is doing the job?
Mana is a much better player than me, but Phoenix/HT is an atrocious composition that will never even get near the BL/Infestor death ball, let alone kill it, especially if there are Corruptors present.
|
On July 10 2012 02:35 Crying wrote:
After watching HSC V did you guys see really the true power that Nerchio showed with his BL/Inf/Crawler 15-20minutes timing,which none protoss was able to deflect effectively,they simply died,all of them.
Even with mothership spreaded BL's are just hard to kill.
MaNa pointed out that the perfect army vs this comp is gonna be Phoenix/HT ,and really i see no possible way of breaking a BL/infestor without air.
Are BLs really that good?Or the infestor is doing the job?
In my opinion, it's the infestors that really screw the protoss in the lategame, and even very powerful mid game units.
Broodlords are only good because of their long range, other than that, they're slow units that die very easily without protection. Actually if you test it, blink stalkers can kill broodlords really easily when no infestors are present. You could have also used air units like void rays to deal with broodlords, but they get nullified by infestors.
The infestor offers all the protection that broodlords need with fungal and infested terrans, the infestor is simply too effective for it's supply and 200/200 max of infestor broodlord is so hard to deal with. I mean it can even neural the mothership and vortex your own army. Fungals doesn't let units even approach the broodlords and all the clumped ground based protoss deathball dies without the powerful weapons like mothership vortex which can kill broodlord and infestors inside the vortex in seconds using the archons but that's hard to do, and impossible if broodlords and infestors are spread.
Hopefully, I predict that in HotS. The tempest will be able to snipe infestors from long range and like that we could easily beat infestor broodlord deathballs, they will have to use good fungals or corruptors with overseers to just be able to move around the map without infestors dying, making it a lot harder for zerg. This encourages zerg to use composition like speed hydra with vipers for late game, with vipers picking off units like colossus which are the major problem for hydras.
|
On July 10 2012 02:35 Crying wrote:
After watching HSC V did you guys see really the true power that Nerchio showed with his BL/Inf/Crawler 15-20minutes timing,which none protoss was able to deflect effectively,they simply died,all of them.
Even with mothership spreaded BL's are just hard to kill.
MaNa pointed out that the perfect army vs this comp is gonna be Phoenix/HT ,and really i see no possible way of breaking a BL/infestor without air.
Are BLs really that good?Or the infestor is doing the job?
That specific timing likely has a gaping hole in it that protoss can exploit if they scout that it is comming. The timing is so much faster than any other BL rush, I think that most players had not seen it before. I don't have the replays, but I am sure that Nerchio is cutting a lot of "something" that is allowing him to get such a gas heavy army so early.
|
On July 10 2012 01:25 Rabiator wrote:
One way to "fix the siege tank" would be to remove friendly fire. Another way to "fix the siege tank" would be to give it the ability to attack a specific ground spot, which could enable you to keep choke points under constant fire instead of having all your tanks fire on the first few Zerglings in the incoming wave. Both of these together would make mech viable again (with forward bunkers and turrets and so on) to be able to contain an opponent. A little more damage for the tank wouldnt hurt either, oh and a tank should do more splash damage to NON-armored targets IMO.
One way to "fix the Colossus" would be to add friendly fire (and for Fungal Growth/Ultralisk splash as well?).
IMHO they should just a "hold fire" or "target fire only" command to tanks. It would help a lot as soon as broodlords are on the field. You could still use them to zone infestors with focus fire even with broodlords above them. But blizzard still seems to think that siege tanks are too good. Many of the units added in HOTS will be especially good against tanks(Viper, swarmhost, warhound and especially borrow charge for the ultralisk). Thats quite sad.
|
If anything is to be removed before beta, it should be burrow charge. Tanks are not even strong, yet they introduce so many anti tank stuff....
|
On July 10 2012 02:31 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 02:06 Toadvine wrote:
The Colossus is a stupid unit because being attackable by air is a stupid, gimmicky weakness. Only thing it leads to is Zerg and Terran having specialized anti-Colossus air units.
In all honesty, Infestors screw up the game a lot more overall, but at least they can allow for interesting gameplay at times. The Colossus is like the posterboy for everything wrong with SC2. Both units are stupid, but the Infestor has ruined every XvZ matchup, so I'd say it's a posterboy more than anything. Fungal Growth is the more poorly conceived spell in the entire game. Yes, worse than Forcefield.
yeah, because if Zerg has something powerful when controlled properly, something that can take over multiple roles every Terran starts whining about it being to versatile.
But when all vT MUs come down to "how the fuck can I kill marines, because they beat everything I have cost for cost unless it has massive splash", each and every Terran comment sounds like "marines are fine, they take a lot of skill to utilize perfectly and are not a unit with counterdesign in mind". The most ridicolous MU is TvT. You Terrans always talk about Tanks, but have you even watched TvT after the blueflame nerf? It's marines, more marines and then when both sides have 50marines, you start building tanks, because only when it becomes impossible to unclump huge marine balls and only if you have 2500 minerals in front of your tanks, you will have the time to set up tanks against those superhigh, superfast dps monsters.
Fuck it! People have no clue what they want. One time, it's not OK that certain units are superpowerful, the next time they complain about the game lacking powerunits to prevent T1 unit spamming and to hold positions.
One moment they talk about the colossus doing to much damage, the next moment they ask for the reaver that has like double the splash radius with 4times the damage.
And talking about Fungals and Tanks - so it's apparently not OK, if you have an 9range splash unit that does 30-40damage over 4secs, but if it was instant with 35-50damage and 13range and the units was straight up dead instead of rooted, hell that would be great design wouldn't it be?
And FFs. Yes I agree, I don't like them either, but guess what - they are what people talk about when they talk about "controlling terrain". how many roaches does a zerg need to ovepower a FFE? 5? Well, not against FFs, with FF Protoss has a spell that gives Protoss a huge defenders advantage. And sure it can be used later on offensively as well - that's exactly like the Tanks and Dark Swarms and Lurkers that some nostalgic people have wet dreams about. At some point you use their power offensively.
The TvZ MU looks broken right now, but people absolutly have no clue why and start talking bullshit about "imbalanced" infestors, broodlords, zerglings, banelings and ultralisks and "underpowered" BCs and Ravens and Ghosts and whatever. Look at the games that Terran wins right now against Zerg and at the game Terran loses right now against Zerg. It has nothing to do with units, it's the freaking economy equation that does not hold anymore. Look at MVP vs Golden on Metropolis from HSC V - MVP doesn't get punished for being supergreedy while Golden didn't go fast 3base, MVP doesn't attack, just takes 5bases and beats the shit out of Golden in the lategame.
Other example, the Ryung game. Ryung takes a lot of bases and does never trade, keeps his army alive long enough to force DRG into BLs, because the Ultra/bane compositions gets hardcountered by the bio/mech mix and then abuses the shit out of the immobility, while keeping on having the same or even better eco than DRG.
Then look at all the Terran losses. 2base openings against 3base openings, or 3CC opening with massive investments in hellions and banshees that get shut down without doing any damage.
It has nothing to do with units. Starting in the midgame, Zerg just has more stuff because they just have the better economy.
|
On July 10 2012 03:26 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 02:31 Shiori wrote:On July 10 2012 02:06 Toadvine wrote:
The Colossus is a stupid unit because being attackable by air is a stupid, gimmicky weakness. Only thing it leads to is Zerg and Terran having specialized anti-Colossus air units.
In all honesty, Infestors screw up the game a lot more overall, but at least they can allow for interesting gameplay at times. The Colossus is like the posterboy for everything wrong with SC2. Both units are stupid, but the Infestor has ruined every XvZ matchup, so I'd say it's a posterboy more than anything. Fungal Growth is the more poorly conceived spell in the entire game. Yes, worse than Forcefield. yeah, because if Zerg has something powerful when controlled properly, something that can take over multiple roles every Terran starts whining about it being to versatile. But when all vT MUs come down to "how the fuck can I kill marines, because they beat everything I have cost for cost unless it has massive splash", each and every Terran comment sounds like "marines are fine, they take a lot of skill to utilize perfectly and are not a unit with counterdesign in mind". The most ridicolous MU is TvT. You Terrans always talk about Tanks, but have you even watched TvT after the blueflame nerf? It's marines, more marines and then when both sides have 50marines, you start building tanks, because only when it becomes impossible to unclump huge marine balls and only if you have 2500 minerals in front of your tanks, you will have the time to set up tanks against those superhigh, superfast dps monsters. Fuck it! People have no clue what they want. One time, it's not OK that certain units are superpowerful, the next time they complain about the game lacking powerunits to prevent T1 unit spamming and to hold positions. One moment they talk about the colossus doing to much damage, the next moment they ask for the reaver that has like double the splash radius with 4times the damage. And talking about Fungals and Tanks - so it's apparently not OK, if you have an 9range splash unit that does 30-40damage over 4secs, but if it was instant with 35-50damage and 13range and the units was straight up dead instead of rooted, hell that would be great design wouldn't it be? And FFs. Yes I agree, I don't like them either, but guess what - they are what people talk about when they talk about "controlling terrain". how many roaches does a zerg need to ovepower a FFE? 5? Well, not against FFs, with FF Protoss has a spell that gives Protoss a huge defenders advantage. And sure it can be used later on offensively as well - that's exactly like the Tanks and Dark Swarms and Lurkers that some nostalgic people have wet dreams about. At some point you use their power offensively. The TvZ MU looks broken right now, but people absolutly have no clue why and start talking bullshit about "imbalanced" infestors, broodlords, zerglings, banelings and ultralisks and "underpowered" BCs and Ravens and Ghosts and whatever. Look at the games that Terran wins right now against Zerg and at the game Terran loses right now against Zerg. It has nothing to do with units, it's the freaking economy equation that does not hold anymore. Look at MVP vs Golden on Metropolis from HSC V - MVP doesn't get punished for being supergreedy while Golden didn't go fast 3base, MVP doesn't attack, just takes 5bases and beats the shit out of Golden in the lategame. Other example, the Ryung game. Ryung takes a lot of bases and does never trade, keeps his army alive long enough to force DRG into BLs, because the Ultra/bane compositions gets hardcountered by the bio/mech mix and then abuses the shit out of the immobility, while keeping on having the same or even better eco than DRG. Then look at all the Terran losses. 2base openings against 3base openings, or 3CC opening with massive investments in hellions and banshees that get shut down without doing any damage. It has nothing to do with units. Starting in the midgame, Zerg just has more stuff because they just have the better economy.
Big J, I can always rely on you to bring up the good stuff. The first game of Ryung vs DRG was majestic. I just caught up with it this morning and it almost made me late for work. Ryung was out of control that game, with amazing decision making and really solid awareness of what the zerg had. The best part of the game is how he waited for the zerg super army of BL and infestors and went nuts with harassment once it was on the field. The raven charge to kill all the infestors was also amazing.
|
On July 10 2012 03:26 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 02:31 Shiori wrote:On July 10 2012 02:06 Toadvine wrote:
The Colossus is a stupid unit because being attackable by air is a stupid, gimmicky weakness. Only thing it leads to is Zerg and Terran having specialized anti-Colossus air units.
In all honesty, Infestors screw up the game a lot more overall, but at least they can allow for interesting gameplay at times. The Colossus is like the posterboy for everything wrong with SC2. Both units are stupid, but the Infestor has ruined every XvZ matchup, so I'd say it's a posterboy more than anything. Fungal Growth is the more poorly conceived spell in the entire game. Yes, worse than Forcefield. yeah, because if Zerg has something powerful when controlled properly, something that can take over multiple roles every Terran starts whining about it being to versatile. But when all vT MUs come down to "how the fuck can I kill marines, because they beat everything I have cost for cost unless it has massive splash", each and every Terran comment sounds like "marines are fine, they take a lot of skill to utilize perfectly and are not a unit with counterdesign in mind". The most ridicolous MU is TvT. You Terrans always talk about Tanks, but have you even watched TvT after the blueflame nerf? It's marines, more marines and then when both sides have 50marines, you start building tanks, because only when it becomes impossible to unclump huge marine balls and only if you have 2500 minerals in front of your tanks, you will have the time to set up tanks against those superhigh, superfast dps monsters. Fuck it! People have no clue what they want. One time, it's not OK that certain units are superpowerful, the next time they complain about the game lacking powerunits to prevent T1 unit spamming and to hold positions. One moment they talk about the colossus doing to much damage, the next moment they ask for the reaver that has like double the splash radius with 4times the damage. And talking about Fungals and Tanks - so it's apparently not OK, if you have an 9range splash unit that does 30-40damage over 4secs, but if it was instant with 35-50damage and 13range and the units was straight up dead instead of rooted, hell that would be great design wouldn't it be? And FFs. Yes I agree, I don't like them either, but guess what - they are what people talk about when they talk about "controlling terrain". how many roaches does a zerg need to ovepower a FFE? 5? Well, not against FFs, with FF Protoss has a spell that gives Protoss a huge defenders advantage. And sure it can be used later on offensively as well - that's exactly like the Tanks and Dark Swarms and Lurkers that some nostalgic people have wet dreams about. At some point you use their power offensively. The TvZ MU looks broken right now, but people absolutly have no clue why and start talking bullshit about "imbalanced" infestors, broodlords, zerglings, banelings and ultralisks and "underpowered" BCs and Ravens and Ghosts and whatever. Look at the games that Terran wins right now against Zerg and at the game Terran loses right now against Zerg. It has nothing to do with units, it's the freaking economy equation that does not hold anymore. Look at MVP vs Golden on Metropolis from HSC V - MVP doesn't get punished for being supergreedy while Golden didn't go fast 3base, MVP doesn't attack, just takes 5bases and beats the shit out of Golden in the lategame. Other example, the Ryung game. Ryung takes a lot of bases and does never trade, keeps his army alive long enough to force DRG into BLs, because the Ultra/bane compositions gets hardcountered by the bio/mech mix and then abuses the shit out of the immobility, while keeping on having the same or even better eco than DRG. Then look at all the Terran losses. 2base openings against 3base openings, or 3CC opening with massive investments in hellions and banshees that get shut down without doing any damage. It has nothing to do with units. Starting in the midgame, Zerg just has more stuff because they just have the better economy.
I nominate this post for winner of the whole thread.
|
|
|
On July 10 2012 03:40 SmileZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 03:26 Big J wrote:On July 10 2012 02:31 Shiori wrote:On July 10 2012 02:06 Toadvine wrote:
The Colossus is a stupid unit because being attackable by air is a stupid, gimmicky weakness. Only thing it leads to is Zerg and Terran having specialized anti-Colossus air units.
In all honesty, Infestors screw up the game a lot more overall, but at least they can allow for interesting gameplay at times. The Colossus is like the posterboy for everything wrong with SC2. Both units are stupid, but the Infestor has ruined every XvZ matchup, so I'd say it's a posterboy more than anything. Fungal Growth is the more poorly conceived spell in the entire game. Yes, worse than Forcefield. yeah, because if Zerg has something powerful when controlled properly, something that can take over multiple roles every Terran starts whining about it being to versatile. But when all vT MUs come down to "how the fuck can I kill marines, because they beat everything I have cost for cost unless it has massive splash", each and every Terran comment sounds like "marines are fine, they take a lot of skill to utilize perfectly and are not a unit with counterdesign in mind". The most ridicolous MU is TvT. You Terrans always talk about Tanks, but have you even watched TvT after the blueflame nerf? It's marines, more marines and then when both sides have 50marines, you start building tanks, because only when it becomes impossible to unclump huge marine balls and only if you have 2500 minerals in front of your tanks, you will have the time to set up tanks against those superhigh, superfast dps monsters. Fuck it! People have no clue what they want. One time, it's not OK that certain units are superpowerful, the next time they complain about the game lacking powerunits to prevent T1 unit spamming and to hold positions. One moment they talk about the colossus doing to much damage, the next moment they ask for the reaver that has like double the splash radius with 4times the damage. And talking about Fungals and Tanks - so it's apparently not OK, if you have an 9range splash unit that does 30-40damage over 4secs, but if it was instant with 35-50damage and 13range and the units was straight up dead instead of rooted, hell that would be great design wouldn't it be? And FFs. Yes I agree, I don't like them either, but guess what - they are what people talk about when they talk about "controlling terrain". how many roaches does a zerg need to ovepower a FFE? 5? Well, not against FFs, with FF Protoss has a spell that gives Protoss a huge defenders advantage. And sure it can be used later on offensively as well - that's exactly like the Tanks and Dark Swarms and Lurkers that some nostalgic people have wet dreams about. At some point you use their power offensively. The TvZ MU looks broken right now, but people absolutly have no clue why and start talking bullshit about "imbalanced" infestors, broodlords, zerglings, banelings and ultralisks and "underpowered" BCs and Ravens and Ghosts and whatever. Look at the games that Terran wins right now against Zerg and at the game Terran loses right now against Zerg. It has nothing to do with units, it's the freaking economy equation that does not hold anymore. Look at MVP vs Golden on Metropolis from HSC V - MVP doesn't get punished for being supergreedy while Golden didn't go fast 3base, MVP doesn't attack, just takes 5bases and beats the shit out of Golden in the lategame. Other example, the Ryung game. Ryung takes a lot of bases and does never trade, keeps his army alive long enough to force DRG into BLs, because the Ultra/bane compositions gets hardcountered by the bio/mech mix and then abuses the shit out of the immobility, while keeping on having the same or even better eco than DRG. Then look at all the Terran losses. 2base openings against 3base openings, or 3CC opening with massive investments in hellions and banshees that get shut down without doing any damage. It has nothing to do with units. Starting in the midgame, Zerg just has more stuff because they just have the better economy. I nominate this post for winner of the whole thread.
I don't. I looked for 5 minutes for a thesis and couldn't find it. It's just a long rant touching on like 40 different topics with a couple of bizarre examples at the end.
|
|
|
Thesis: Terran is a race based on economics, Zerg is a race based on easy unit production and Protoss is a race based on gimmicks...
I think that's what he was trying to say.
|
On July 10 2012 03:51 neoghaleon55 wrote:
Thesis: Terran is a race based on economics, Zerg is a race based on easy unit production and Protoss is a race based on gimmicks...
I think that's what he was trying to say.
AAAND
Korean is a race based on skill, foreigners are races based on drama.
Half joke, half truth.
|
On July 10 2012 03:51 neoghaleon55 wrote:
Thesis: Terran is a race based on economics, Zerg is a race based on easy unit production and Protoss is a race based on gimmicks...
I think that's what he was trying to say.
So basically Protoss needs to be given a standard style of play would be the conclusion from that thesis, and Zerg's easy production needs to be controllable. Right now I think Terran has a hard time keeping up economically so I don't think they need to nerf that any harder.
|
On July 10 2012 02:58 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 02:35 Crying wrote:
After watching HSC V did you guys see really the true power that Nerchio showed with his BL/Inf/Crawler 15-20minutes timing,which none protoss was able to deflect effectively,they simply died,all of them.
Even with mothership spreaded BL's are just hard to kill.
MaNa pointed out that the perfect army vs this comp is gonna be Phoenix/HT ,and really i see no possible way of breaking a BL/infestor without air.
Are BLs really that good?Or the infestor is doing the job? Mana is a much better player than me, but Phoenix/HT is an atrocious composition that will never even get near the BL/Infestor death ball, let alone kill it, especially if there are Corruptors present.
Mana was joking, as can be seen easily by him suggesting you go Phoenix because you can then lift up the Broodlings ...
|
On July 10 2012 03:48 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 03:26 Big J wrote:On July 10 2012 02:31 Shiori wrote:On July 10 2012 02:06 Toadvine wrote:
The Colossus is a stupid unit because being attackable by air is a stupid, gimmicky weakness. Only thing it leads to is Zerg and Terran having specialized anti-Colossus air units.
In all honesty, Infestors screw up the game a lot more overall, but at least they can allow for interesting gameplay at times. The Colossus is like the posterboy for everything wrong with SC2. Both units are stupid, but the Infestor has ruined every XvZ matchup, so I'd say it's a posterboy more than anything. Fungal Growth is the more poorly conceived spell in the entire game. Yes, worse than Forcefield. yeah, because if Zerg has something powerful when controlled properly, something that can take over multiple roles every Terran starts whining about it being to versatile. But when all vT MUs come down to "how the fuck can I kill marines, because they beat everything I have cost for cost unless it has massive splash", each and every Terran comment sounds like "marines are fine, they take a lot of skill to utilize perfectly and are not a unit with counterdesign in mind". The most ridicolous MU is TvT. You Terrans always talk about Tanks, but have you even watched TvT after the blueflame nerf? It's marines, more marines and then when both sides have 50marines, you start building tanks, because only when it becomes impossible to unclump huge marine balls and only if you have 2500 minerals in front of your tanks, you will have the time to set up tanks against those superhigh, superfast dps monsters. Fuck it! People have no clue what they want. One time, it's not OK that certain units are superpowerful, the next time they complain about the game lacking powerunits to prevent T1 unit spamming and to hold positions. One moment they talk about the colossus doing to much damage, the next moment they ask for the reaver that has like double the splash radius with 4times the damage. And talking about Fungals and Tanks - so it's apparently not OK, if you have an 9range splash unit that does 30-40damage over 4secs, but if it was instant with 35-50damage and 13range and the units was straight up dead instead of rooted, hell that would be great design wouldn't it be? And FFs. Yes I agree, I don't like them either, but guess what - they are what people talk about when they talk about "controlling terrain". how many roaches does a zerg need to ovepower a FFE? 5? Well, not against FFs, with FF Protoss has a spell that gives Protoss a huge defenders advantage. And sure it can be used later on offensively as well - that's exactly like the Tanks and Dark Swarms and Lurkers that some nostalgic people have wet dreams about. At some point you use their power offensively. The TvZ MU looks broken right now, but people absolutly have no clue why and start talking bullshit about "imbalanced" infestors, broodlords, zerglings, banelings and ultralisks and "underpowered" BCs and Ravens and Ghosts and whatever. Look at the games that Terran wins right now against Zerg and at the game Terran loses right now against Zerg. It has nothing to do with units, it's the freaking economy equation that does not hold anymore. Look at MVP vs Golden on Metropolis from HSC V - MVP doesn't get punished for being supergreedy while Golden didn't go fast 3base, MVP doesn't attack, just takes 5bases and beats the shit out of Golden in the lategame. Other example, the Ryung game. Ryung takes a lot of bases and does never trade, keeps his army alive long enough to force DRG into BLs, because the Ultra/bane compositions gets hardcountered by the bio/mech mix and then abuses the shit out of the immobility, while keeping on having the same or even better eco than DRG. Then look at all the Terran losses. 2base openings against 3base openings, or 3CC opening with massive investments in hellions and banshees that get shut down without doing any damage. It has nothing to do with units. Starting in the midgame, Zerg just has more stuff because they just have the better economy. Really good points you have there, but keep in mind that strategies are chosen based on how different openings hypothetically would interact with each other, and it is in these hypothetical situations the exact stats on units actually matters. Yeah, games are decided on terms that are seemingly unrelated to the things that are commonly perceived as imbalanced, but let's not forget the variety of strategies that are chosen away because of these things alone. An example would be the trend of going 1 rax FE vs Zerg. Zerg may win or Zerg may lose, and it may have to do with the things you point out. But why doesn't Terran open 1-1-1, or reactor hellion before expansion? The reason is that these openings simply doesn't put you in the position where you can deal enough damage to justify the delayed expansion. And the reason for this is the exact unit stats that wouldn't otherwise be relevant. IMO, balancing is making strategies viable, and reactions to them equally viable. EDIT: to people seemingly not understanding what Big J is talking about: he's saying that the stuff we perceive as imbalances does not actually portray the underlying imbalance. An example could be: it's not the infestor that is overpowered, but rather the situation Zerg is in in the current metagame that makes them capable of producing them in a sufficient amount in order to counteract most things, and thus put Zerg in too much of an advantageous position that effectively makes the game imbalanced. The imbalance is not necessarily the damage of fungal growth. It could lie somewhere else, possibly in mechanics of Zerg economy.
Yeah, ofc the exact stats matter a ton as we can see from the queen change. But from the Edit I can see that you got the point I was trying to make, even though it was packed in a rather long rant.
I do indeed think that most units are balanced well enough against each other, but still certain units are simply better/more versatile so that you will build them anyway, which in my opinion is a good thing to have in a strategy game, because it gives the game stability.
The thing that is not balanced - and should not be, else we would lose the racial identities as well as the ability to go offensive - is production. And right now in TvZ it is at a point, were Zergs have been given too much of it too early in the game.
It basically all roots back to zergs not having powerful (microable), larvaefficient but somewhat ressourceheavy units early that they can and must rely on, but which can also put on pressure on the opponent.
Blizzard tried to introduce such units with the queen and the roach, but they kind of failed, due to them being to counterable. If I had one wish for HotS, it would be that they move burrow to T1, nerf inject to 3larva and experiment a little bit more with how roaches work exactly.
|
i think the queen mechanic is too powerfull when zerg is on top of their injects mb you should make something about that like buffing the queen cost to 100 or smt and increasing the larvae spawn time which would be in my opinion a great change because it would be more difficult for the zerg to keep the production due to the need of more hatches(more injects needed...) overall but would keep the early game defence rather high
what are your thoughts on theese? and what ideas do you have?
sry for my poor english
|
On July 10 2012 03:26 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 02:31 Shiori wrote:On July 10 2012 02:06 Toadvine wrote:
The Colossus is a stupid unit because being attackable by air is a stupid, gimmicky weakness. Only thing it leads to is Zerg and Terran having specialized anti-Colossus air units.
In all honesty, Infestors screw up the game a lot more overall, but at least they can allow for interesting gameplay at times. The Colossus is like the posterboy for everything wrong with SC2. Both units are stupid, but the Infestor has ruined every XvZ matchup, so I'd say it's a posterboy more than anything. Fungal Growth is the more poorly conceived spell in the entire game. Yes, worse than Forcefield. ... And talking about Fungals and Tanks - so it's apparently not OK, if you have an 9range splash unit that does 30-40damage over 4secs, but if it was instant with 35-50damage and 13range and the units was straight up dead instead of rooted, hell that would be great design wouldn't it be? ..
Why compare siege tanks to infestors at all? One zones out an area while being immobile while the other is a mobile damage dealer that prevents any kind of micro. There's no point comparing them as tanks provide interesting games with zoning/deciding when it's OK to push into siege fire, while infestors cast "great fungals" that completely prevents and kind of save for the opponent (in my opinion at least).
I cringe every time a infestor just walks over, fungal a air unit, spawns a few infested marines then just moves on. It requires little micro and the opponent can't save his units regardless of how great his multitask is. Sure you could say that with good multitask you should avoid infestors, but it's just not possible with the speed of the infestor and the range of fungal. Mutalisks can for example get away even from flanking thors/marines/hts because they're not instantly frozen in place, making muta harrass something interesting and dynamic. (not that we see muts much anymore though :/)
|
Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On July 10 2012 04:54 koffeinfrei wrote:
i think the queen mechanic is too powerfull when zerg is on top of their injects mb you should make something about that like buffing the queen cost to 100 or smt and increasing the larvae spawn time which would be in my opinion a great change because it would be more difficult for the zerg to keep the production due to the need of more hatches(more injects needed...) overall but would keep the early game defence rather high
what are your thoughts on theese? and what ideas do you have?
sry for my poor english
You would have to change the entire game for this.
- First off, massively buff Zerg units.
- Second of all, decreasing Hatchery build time and cost, which would end up Zerg having even MORE bases.
- Queen already costs 150 Minerals, I am not sure about your point there.
- It is already difficult for a Zerg to keep production if they are not injecting right, especially with larvae-intense units like Zerglings and Roaches.
Overall, no.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
