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Problem:
Vikings make Battlecruisers and Carriers stupid, but waste shots against everything else, like mutas, phoenixes, groups of overlords, etc. Their DPS is pretty nice but when the whole group overkills the closest air unit one by one, they do awfully low damage.
Solution:
Increase the firing rate and lower the damage so that they have the same base DPS. They will do less damage to well armored targets and more damage to groups of units.
Side Effects:
May make them less effective against Colossi, which is not needed.
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On March 25 2012 13:20 Jimbo77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 02:09 Thrombozyt wrote:
Problem:
Broodlord/Corruptor/Infestor combo is insanely had to take on.
Solution:
Fungal growth no longer snares air units but only applies damage.
Side Effects:
Apart from being flat out logical, Zergs will have to make anti-air instead of simply casting chain fungal to to kill drop ships. Might help out the muta style or maybe even hydras.
FG should not affect air at all. Then, FG should affect friendly units as well, it's ridiculous that storm and EMP do while FG doesn't. Zerg now literally doesn't need to think, just FG everywhere.
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The thing that gets me about fungal is that there is no delay and no way to see it coming. What would you think if we could actually see the fungal travel from infestor to the target (like an infested terran launch) and add in a very short delay, say .25 sec.
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On March 25 2012 22:44 Vonarma wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 13:20 Jimbo77 wrote:On March 23 2012 02:09 Thrombozyt wrote:
Problem:
Broodlord/Corruptor/Infestor combo is insanely had to take on.
Solution:
Fungal growth no longer snares air units but only applies damage.
Side Effects:
Apart from being flat out logical, Zergs will have to make anti-air instead of simply casting chain fungal to to kill drop ships. Might help out the muta style or maybe even hydras.
FG should not affect air at all. Then, FG should affect friendly units as well, it's ridiculous that storm and EMP do while FG doesn't. Zerg now literally doesn't need to think, just FG everywhere. ---------------------- The thing that gets me about fungal is that there is no delay and no way to see it coming. What would you think if we could actually see the fungal travel from infestor to the target (like an infested terran launch) and add in a very short delay, say .25 sec.
That's already been implemented or attempted to be implemented once, and quickly removed. A simple way to suggest what you're saying is: Make fungal a projectile/missile attack. As it is, yeah, no delay. However that's also how it is with storm, so it's not like this feature is unique to fungal. Why should fungal receive this change alone
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I was unaware this had already been implemented - thanks That said, however, you can back out of a storm whereas fungals can be chained repeatedly with no chance of escape.
Just tossin my 2cents (which isnt worth much), and was wondering how the fungal mechanic came about.
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1983 Posts
problem:
charelots are too good late game in tvp and in some cases zvp
solution:
charelots should be known as speedlots with the speed as the only advantage.
side effects:
more mirco for toss and less dangerous zeolots
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problem: sentries usage of ff:s
Consant forcefielding in the base can cause game ending damage in the early game since no unit can break the force field. it's bad game play when a player with greater economy and army can loose to a player with lesser economy and army due to a positional error.
solution:
make forcefield only slow movements speed and attack speed when crossed by about 60% for about 10 seconds.
side effects
more difficult to hold a base with ff:s
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On March 23 2012 06:28 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 02:22 Sajaki wrote:On March 23 2012 00:52 RavenLoud wrote:
I'd say it's about time to give a raven some sort of a buff. It's doesn't need to be major, just to tell players to start using it. I'm getting tired of seeing terran players floating thousands of gas past the midgame then complain that the other races's high tech army is too powerful.
An acceleration buff would be perfect (maybe even a speed buff but that won't be necessary.) It also increases manoeuvering potentials, the science vessel in BW was a fast and agile unit, of course ravens aren't the same, but they aren't as satisfying to use partly because of a lack of nimbleness. Well the MU where terrans float the most gas is definately in TvP, and ravens are weakest in that MU because Feedback can kill a raven instantly should it have enough energy to actually be useful. True True, but I definitively believe there's room for it in the match up, though it does add more mechanical demand since you must have great ghost vs. templar micro. Some theorycrafts: you could land an auto turret in the front of the army to lure the chargelots, make a turret wall to block archons and use PDD to safely own the colossus. It can also provides crucial "zoning" control like spider mines. It doesn't change the nature of PvT's problems as deathball vs. deathball 1 misclick and you lose etc, but I'm certain that pros can find tons of use for it in many situations once they get on it. However from what I understand they are very hard to keep alive, so a mobility buff would come in handy.
I still think that feedback is way too much of a hard counter to Ravens to make them viable beyond the early game in TvP. If we want to see more ravens in TvP mid/lategame i think something has to be done about feedback vs. Ravens. Perhaps change feedback so it only affects psionic units... That would make feedback useless against Thors, BCs and Ravens but wouldn't change anything else. That might actually make mech semi-viable in TvP since feedback no longer steals half of the beefy units' health anymore.
Might suddenly make feedback too weak though. I dunno. Balance is complicated.
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On March 25 2012 23:05 archonOOid wrote:
problem:
charelots are too good late game in tvp and in some cases zvp
solution:
charelots should be known as speedlots with the speed as the only advantage.
side effects:
more mirco for toss and less dangerous zeolots
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problem: sentries usage of ff:s
Consant forcefielding in the base can cause game ending damage in the early game since no unit can break the force field. it's bad game play when a player with greater economy and army can loose to a player with lesser economy and army due to a positional error.
solution:
make forcefield only slow movements speed and attack speed when crossed by about 60% for about 10 seconds.
side effects
more difficult to hold a base with ff:s
This change would also turn pvp into 4gate wars again...
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On March 25 2012 23:05 archonOOid wrote:
problem:
charelots are too good late game in tvp and in some cases zvp
solution:
charelots should be known as speedlots with the speed as the only advantage.
side effects:
more mirco for toss and less dangerous zeolots
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
problem: sentries usage of ff:s
Consant forcefielding in the base can cause game ending damage in the early game since no unit can break the force field. it's bad game play when a player with greater economy and army can loose to a player with lesser economy and army due to a positional error.
solution:
make forcefield only slow movements speed and attack speed when crossed by about 60% for about 10 seconds.
side effects
more difficult to hold a base with ff:s
So you want a bio ball to be able to kite zealots and take 0 damage?
As for the forcefield suggestion, it would completely break the game. Protosses actually need them how they are. Stimmed bio could just run through it as would speedlings. It wouldn't be more difficult to hold your own base with defender's advantage, it would be impossible.
Edit: PvP would be 4 gating again, roach and baneling would be impossible to defend, and the game would be terribly imbalanced.
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On March 25 2012 23:20 MentalGNT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 06:28 RavenLoud wrote:On March 23 2012 02:22 Sajaki wrote:On March 23 2012 00:52 RavenLoud wrote:
I'd say it's about time to give a raven some sort of a buff. It's doesn't need to be major, just to tell players to start using it. I'm getting tired of seeing terran players floating thousands of gas past the midgame then complain that the other races's high tech army is too powerful.
An acceleration buff would be perfect (maybe even a speed buff but that won't be necessary.) It also increases manoeuvering potentials, the science vessel in BW was a fast and agile unit, of course ravens aren't the same, but they aren't as satisfying to use partly because of a lack of nimbleness. Well the MU where terrans float the most gas is definately in TvP, and ravens are weakest in that MU because Feedback can kill a raven instantly should it have enough energy to actually be useful. True True, but I definitively believe there's room for it in the match up, though it does add more mechanical demand since you must have great ghost vs. templar micro. Some theorycrafts: you could land an auto turret in the front of the army to lure the chargelots, make a turret wall to block archons and use PDD to safely own the colossus. It can also provides crucial "zoning" control like spider mines. It doesn't change the nature of PvT's problems as deathball vs. deathball 1 misclick and you lose etc, but I'm certain that pros can find tons of use for it in many situations once they get on it. However from what I understand they are very hard to keep alive, so a mobility buff would come in handy. I still think that feedback is way too much of a hard counter to Ravens to make them viable beyond the early game in TvP. If we want to see more ravens in TvP mid/lategame i think something has to be done about feedback vs. Ravens. Perhaps change feedback so it only affects psionic units... That would make feedback useless against Thors, BCs and Ravens but wouldn't change anything else. That might actually make mech semi-viable in TvP since feedback no longer steals half of the beefy units' health anymore. Might suddenly make feedback too weak though. I dunno. Balance is complicated.
I play protoss but I would be very happy to see feedback not affect ravens and thors. I do think they thors strike cannon should just be removed from the game at the same time though, as we dont want thors killing immortals and colossus. I think it is important (for balance) that feedback should continue to affect medivacs, banshees and battlecruisers though.
I would suggest...
Thor: remove energy bar and strike cannons ability
Raven: Immune to energy draining effects (EMP and feedback)
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Does anyone else feel that terran has been designed badly in sc2? There is no proper zone control and siege tanks are quiet bad units actually, they are nothing like in brood war. TvZ has became very zerg favored match up unless you do some early mkp-style aggression which wins you the game before the mid game.
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On March 28 2012 19:20 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
Does anyone else feel that terran has been designed badly in sc2? There is no proper zone control and siege tanks are quiet bad units actually, they are nothing like in brood war. TvZ has became very zerg favored match up unless you do some early mkp-style aggression which wins you the game before the mid game.
What are you talking about?
Terran has the best zone control in the game.
Tanks, Turrets and Planetaries
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On March 25 2012 23:44 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 23:20 MentalGNT wrote:On March 23 2012 06:28 RavenLoud wrote:On March 23 2012 02:22 Sajaki wrote:On March 23 2012 00:52 RavenLoud wrote:
I'd say it's about time to give a raven some sort of a buff. It's doesn't need to be major, just to tell players to start using it. I'm getting tired of seeing terran players floating thousands of gas past the midgame then complain that the other races's high tech army is too powerful.
An acceleration buff would be perfect (maybe even a speed buff but that won't be necessary.) It also increases manoeuvering potentials, the science vessel in BW was a fast and agile unit, of course ravens aren't the same, but they aren't as satisfying to use partly because of a lack of nimbleness. Well the MU where terrans float the most gas is definately in TvP, and ravens are weakest in that MU because Feedback can kill a raven instantly should it have enough energy to actually be useful. True True, but I definitively believe there's room for it in the match up, though it does add more mechanical demand since you must have great ghost vs. templar micro. Some theorycrafts: you could land an auto turret in the front of the army to lure the chargelots, make a turret wall to block archons and use PDD to safely own the colossus. It can also provides crucial "zoning" control like spider mines. It doesn't change the nature of PvT's problems as deathball vs. deathball 1 misclick and you lose etc, but I'm certain that pros can find tons of use for it in many situations once they get on it. However from what I understand they are very hard to keep alive, so a mobility buff would come in handy. I still think that feedback is way too much of a hard counter to Ravens to make them viable beyond the early game in TvP. If we want to see more ravens in TvP mid/lategame i think something has to be done about feedback vs. Ravens. Perhaps change feedback so it only affects psionic units... That would make feedback useless against Thors, BCs and Ravens but wouldn't change anything else. That might actually make mech semi-viable in TvP since feedback no longer steals half of the beefy units' health anymore. Might suddenly make feedback too weak though. I dunno. Balance is complicated. I play protoss but I would be very happy to see feedback not affect ravens and thors. I do think they thors strike cannon should just be removed from the game at the same time though, as we dont want thors killing immortals and colossus. I think it is important (for balance) that feedback should continue to affect medivacs, banshees and battlecruisers though. I would suggest... Thor: remove energy bar and strike cannons ability Raven: Immune to energy draining effects (EMP and feedback)
I think ravens still should be targeteble by feedback and emp. Ravens are casters and that's what those spells are for. I agree on the thor part. For a short time they had a cooldown timer, I don't actually know why that was removed. I think the same thing is true for battle cruisers.
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On March 29 2012 20:00 monkybone wrote:
Zone control for Terran is extremely expensive (tanks and planetaries), much more so that for Zerg and Protoss, which have cheaper alternatives. Including: Creep (free), spines (cheap), pylons for warp in (free in the sense that you need them anyway), cannons.
It's not practical to put down planetaries before very very late game. The alternative for Terran is bunkers, but since they need to be filled with units, they are in effect a costly alternative (at least 300 resources, 4 supply).
Are you for real? Pylons are zone control? Creep is like tanks?
Seriously, what game are you playing? Tanks are fantastic in this game. Let's see a replay of your tanks being bad.
Zerg zone control is broodlords, infestors and burrow. Protoss is storm, collosus, sentries, and mothership. These are not cheap units. Plus you're getting the Shredder.
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On March 25 2012 23:03 Vonarma wrote:
I was unaware this had already been implemented - thanks That said, however, you can back out of a storm whereas fungals can be chained repeatedly with no chance of escape.
Just tossin my 2cents (which isnt worth much), and was wondering how the fungal mechanic came about.
Fungals are an integral part of Zerg, imo. Z relies on it much more than P relies on storm.
Also, Observation: I feel like I need to end ZvP before the 'toss gets their third, or else I lose.
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On March 29 2012 21:39 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 21:16 DoubleReed wrote:On March 29 2012 20:00 monkybone wrote:
Zone control for Terran is extremely expensive (tanks and planetaries), much more so that for Zerg and Protoss, which have cheaper alternatives. Including: Creep (free), spines (cheap), pylons for warp in (free in the sense that you need them anyway), cannons.
It's not practical to put down planetaries before very very late game. The alternative for Terran is bunkers, but since they need to be filled with units, they are in effect a costly alternative (at least 300 resources, 4 supply). Are you for real? Pylons are zone control? Creep is like tanks? Seriously, what game are you playing? Tanks are fantastic in this game. Let's see a replay of your tanks being bad. Zerg zone control is broodlords, infestors and burrow. Protoss is storm, collosus, sentries, and mothership. These are not cheap units. Plus you're getting the Shredder. We're clearly using different notions of zone control. I'm not talking about AoE damage like you are implying here, and I doubt anyone else is either. Zone control is local map control. And creep is an excellent way to control space on the map, as it gives room for reaction. No terran will walk straight across areas with creep. Pylons are used defensively as well by warp in, to intercept drops, runbys and so on. You're basically having control over the area, and that's all there is to it. A single pylon can an entire expansion from ling runbys for example. And I didn't imply that tanks are bad, where did you get that notion? I'm saying that they are an expensive alternative. It isn't e.g. practical to have several tanks at each expansion.
I've been plenty of T players just chillin' on creep. They gave zero fucks.
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On March 25 2012 13:20 Jimbo77 wrote:
Zerg now literally doesn't need to think, just FG everywhere.
Then let us make any race the same with just some graphical differences?
I guess a general theme of the swarm is to focus more on macro than on micro. When Protoss needs to micro single stalkers, the zerg often just needs to flank from two sides with lings, then a-move.
I see the game to be intentionally designed to be imbalanced when the same aspect of different races are compared. One has to see each race as a whole.
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On March 29 2012 21:39 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 21:16 DoubleReed wrote:On March 29 2012 20:00 monkybone wrote:
Zone control for Terran is extremely expensive (tanks and planetaries), much more so that for Zerg and Protoss, which have cheaper alternatives. Including: Creep (free), spines (cheap), pylons for warp in (free in the sense that you need them anyway), cannons.
It's not practical to put down planetaries before very very late game. The alternative for Terran is bunkers, but since they need to be filled with units, they are in effect a costly alternative (at least 300 resources, 4 supply). Are you for real? Pylons are zone control? Creep is like tanks? Seriously, what game are you playing? Tanks are fantastic in this game. Let's see a replay of your tanks being bad. Zerg zone control is broodlords, infestors and burrow. Protoss is storm, collosus, sentries, and mothership. These are not cheap units. Plus you're getting the Shredder. We're clearly using different notions of zone control. I'm not talking about AoE damage like you are implying here, and I doubt anyone else is either. Zone control is local map control. And creep is an excellent way to control space on the map, as it gives room for reaction. No terran will walk straight across areas with creep. Pylons are used defensively as well by warp in, to intercept drops, runbys and so on. You're basically having control over the area, and that's all there is to it. A single pylon can an entire expansion from ling runbys for example. And I didn't imply that tanks are bad, where did you get that notion? I'm saying that they are an expensive alternative. It isn't e.g. practical to have several tanks at each expansion.
And it isn't practical for the Zerg to have several tanks worth of defense at every expansion either. What's your point?
Terran has the best zone control in the game, hands down. Zerg creep spread doesn't save them from Terran zone control on Antiga, it doesn't even come close.
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EPT
