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On December 12 2014 22:14 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 21:53 Big J wrote:On December 12 2014 20:57 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 12 2014 20:51 LSN wrote:On December 12 2014 20:36 FrozenProbe wrote:
I remember one of the first interviews on the SC2 developement team, one of the designers were asked for wich unit he was terrified more about (balance wise) and he said "I'm terrified by the marine". I don't know if that guy is still working on Blizzard, but he was right, MMM composition is just too strong especially versus protoss and this is why protoss has tons of AoE. The problem with that is Protoss has high tech AoE, zergs instead have banes that trades really well against bio with just speed and if they're on creep, this is why TvZ is much more dynamic than TvP, and in the end we return to the same circlejerk.. protoss design is fundamentally flawed Protoss design is not but most people fail to see this. Terran design is for the mentioned reasons. If you need a proof or hint then simply look at PvZ and TvZ/TvP diversity of strategies: In PvZ there are at least a dozen viable openings and strategies that each lead into different metagames: - fe fenix - fe oracle - fe zealot/void/templar - fe immo/sentry - fe into gateway/colossi just to name a few all this (and the many more that I have not named) transtales into marine+marauder in every single game as soon as terran is involved. This all has to do with the fact Terran units in general suck, except for the 3 core units. They're soo specialized they are pidgeonholed into small niche situations. And that has for a big part to do with Terran being OP in early WOL and having pretty much every unit nerfed multiple times. Meh, all the Starport units plus Thors are really strong vs Zerg. In very specific situations, yes. Thors are bad against everything but Mutalisk if you factor in how hard they are to produce. Ravens are broken, but only en masse with a Siege Tank line beneath them. That's a niche. Banshees are a strong early harass unit. That's a niche. Vikings are only useful again in the turtle scenario (because of a lack of Mech AA, that is!). Battlecruisers ROCK if you can get them out against no good antiair or in the mass turtle deathball. Again. The units have a role, I don't deny that. The problem I'm pointing at is: these units have such few and such specific uses that they're not worth it in normal gameplay. Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 21:53 Big J wrote:
There's no "you shall not pass" tank or infestor in HotS. It's not really the units that suck, but that frontal aggression has no real counterplay. There's a general lack of board control in SC2. That's why people were pumped for the Widow Mine (as a 1/0 supply defensive tool, that is). In Starcraft 2, the answer to 'a large army' is usually 'a larger army'. I don't have a lot of experience with Broodwar, but I'm going to pull the example anyways. Units like the Lurker and Siege Tank in Brood War could actually control an area. If you leave 3 Lurkers on top of a ramp no amount of Marines is going to get through anytime soon. In SC2, however, this CANNOT work. We cannot allow for Tanks and Infestors and Collosi to take the role of defensive control units. The reason? In SC2 your economy basically maxes out at 3 bases. Sure, you can take a fourth for some extra money, but that's it. If we make defensive units too strong, we make the entire game incredibly stale. This is why people have been calling for new changes to the economy (not the LOTV one) to actually encourage the expanding. More bases = more money but less defense per base. In that case, you can make some defensive units that have the power to hold of significantly larger armies. Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 21:53 Big J wrote:
Which is to say I'm not against aggression, but it would be better if it came from drops and mutas and burrowed infestors and hellions rather than: here are 50units, deal with it. These sorts of moves arise anyways when you got something done or your opponent tries to be too greed in tech/eco/harass and has too little at home. No need to balance around them. Also balance tends to be very unstable with that sort of gameplay as we see. Making one unit a tiny bit better or worse or making some maps a little more aggressive and suddenly it swings. Balance around aggression is not unstable per say. We may have that experience with Terran in WOL, but that was part Z/P being too weak and part the game being new. Aggression needs time to be dealt with. Blizzard hasn't really allowed that to show yet with HOTS and WOL (see: Mine nerf after Overseer buff. ZvT was getting really good at the time, but a nerf came (too late) and fucked shit up) Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 21:53 Big J wrote:
If we look at PvZ and TvT the matchups with the most countercompositions that are mostly played out of a strong defense they are much more stable and can eat various buffs/nerfs without swinging full Protoss/Zerg or Mech/Bio. Strong defense is partially the result of being given the time to adapt to new aggressive strategies, though.
But isnt that what Im saying? How hard Thors are to produce and how many Starport units only work once you have gotten safe? The point is that with current interactions getting safe is very hard unless you go full turtlemech. Thors/Ravens/Vikings/BCs are hard to get because you need 7+ barracks with addons and mines to be safe. Not 3-5 with some tanks while still flying a medivac around. Because muta/ling/bling is so strong and mobile.
And vis-verca, you need 80drones and 4-5hatcheries constantly pumping ling/bling/muta to be save because 4M is so strong. Not 60drones on 3-4hatcheries with a bunch of infestors so that you can send your mutas and zerglings across the map.
3base eco is hard to penetrate frontally with strong defensive units around. But not impossible to damage with speedivacs or mutas and cloaked units. And eventually people take 4th bases.
HotS made a step forward by buffing harass and a step backwards by nerfing (ground)control in TvZ (or not buffing it accordingly). Control is there to restrict in your face moves. Harass is there to still allow aggression. But the game has once again been balanced around in your face aggression, as harass can only be a gamewinner if big army play advantages result from it.
Defense comes with time that's somewhat true, but there are different forms of defense. But that doesnt tell us how the game plays out around it. If I need all my units to defend, then I cannot attack or tech at the same time. If I need to attack with all my army all the time, better make the punches as hard as possible to begin with.
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On December 12 2014 20:08 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 14:27 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 10:16 sibs wrote:
So 4 Zergs qualified against 12 Terrans and 11 Protoss.
And the games were played on
Overgrowth LE
Daybreak LE
King Sejong Station LE 6 Zergs and they did best in terms of winrates PvT 47–41 (53.41%) PvZ 35–42 (45.45%) TvZ 44–44 (50.00%) Really don't know how that happened tbh. There hasn't been a single ZvZ beside the WC-qualifier, therefore the "good Zerg" haven't been knocking each other out neither... The Zerg race just seems to die right now.
1. Smallest amount of participiants:
Z: 37
T: 50
P :48
2. Based on wild card bracket 8 Z, 3T, 3P finished 3rd in their bracket, so lot of Zergs won few rounds but then failed to be in TOP2
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On December 13 2014 03:02 keglu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 20:08 Swisslink wrote:On December 12 2014 14:27 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 10:16 sibs wrote:
So 4 Zergs qualified against 12 Terrans and 11 Protoss.
And the games were played on
Overgrowth LE
Daybreak LE
King Sejong Station LE 6 Zergs and they did best in terms of winrates PvT 47–41 (53.41%) PvZ 35–42 (45.45%) TvZ 44–44 (50.00%) Really don't know how that happened tbh. There hasn't been a single ZvZ beside the WC-qualifier, therefore the "good Zerg" haven't been knocking each other out neither... The Zerg race just seems to die right now. 1. Smallest amount of participiants: Z: 37 T: 50 P :48 2. Based on wild card bracket 8 Z, 3T, 3P finished 3rd in their bracket, so lot of Zergs won few rounds but then failed to be in TOP2
This has happened for hot6 qualifiers as well, top Zerg players should have no problem defeating weaker Protoss/Terran players, but that's not what happens.
Zerg either has worst players, or is weaker than P & T despite having maps that favor the race.
Aligulac's top20 has 10 Terran players, 3 Zerg players, 7 protoss players.
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On December 12 2014 20:51 LSN wrote:In PvZ there are at least a dozen viable openings and strategies that each lead into different metagames: - fe fenix - fe oracle - fe zealot/void/templar - fe immo/sentry - fe into gateway/colossi - fe 6-8 gate just to name a few all this (and the many more that I have not named) transtales into marine+marauder in every single game as soon as terran is involved. Show nested quote +On December 12 2014 20:48 SC2Toastie wrote:
...
Terran MMM is used because the other units are so specialized in what they do they are not viable.
...
The relation is the other way round at the end of the day. I wonder what is necessary to make ppl understand a simple connection. 1. If bio was not as strong as it is (e. removal of marauder) then mech units could be designed to fit into this place (I suggested cheaper factories and cheaper tanks a year ago). 2. Then protoss/zerg units could be tweaked and adapted as the pressure of bio throughout the whole game would be lesser and the strict focus on aoe against terran that narrows the variety of strategies would widen alot and get more interesting by itself. This is as short as you can put it.
Meh i cannot agree there. To me Protoss has by far the worst design of all races. Reason? Protoss is super situational and the current PvT (which sucks) shows just that. If the viewers get lucky we get multiple close fights and so on but in general Protoss does not allow for nice viewing action. Gateway units suck most oftenly (however quickly can get imba when it comes to remaxes) while Colossus and HT are incredibly strong units. Therfor the outcome of a fight is a) often predictable (Terran has enough Vikings/Ghosts) b) often decided by only a handful of actions (Feedbacks, Viking targeting etc.) Also Protoss is not well suited for multiple fights due to their reliance on a few units and Zealot warp-ins are super boring because its warp in and forget (Zealots do not allow for micro which sucks).
Even though you may have many different openings in PvZ, Protoss has to end up with the same composition all the time. Paired with Swarmhost PvZ can quite often become an incredibly boring matchup. I am aware that i prefer to watch Terrans play in general but seriously those super long PvZ Macros with tons of Swarmhost Corruptor vs. Mothershipcore Deathball are incredibly boring because nothing really happens no one can engage, because one lost engagement easily results in a lost game.
IMO the problem lies in the macro mechanics. Terran has the best units in the game (MMM) because they have the worst Macro (classical RTS linear production cycle). E.G. Gateways can be super op from a terran perspective after a 200/200 fight or during Gateway all ins, so Gateway units have to suck to make up for it. NOTE: With the LotV gateway change there is hope for this to change.
Zerg has unquestionable the best macro mechanics by far. Larvae are super strong and allow for quick tech switches, remaxes etc.
Factory units like Thor/Tank take forever to produce AND are really immobile (besides that they cost a lot) so losing them without dealing significant damage can easily put you behind. When we take into consideration Terran usually has to be the aggressive race it is only natural they prefer cheap and mobile units like MMM, it is way easier to get a cost efficient engagement and Bio scales better with micro than Mech does.
Starport units are not really worth a mention because they can never form an army of their own (until the very endgame with BCs/Ravens/Vikings).
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On December 13 2014 04:24 sibs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 03:02 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 20:08 Swisslink wrote:On December 12 2014 14:27 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 10:16 sibs wrote:
So 4 Zergs qualified against 12 Terrans and 11 Protoss.
And the games were played on
Overgrowth LE
Daybreak LE
King Sejong Station LE 6 Zergs and they did best in terms of winrates PvT 47–41 (53.41%) PvZ 35–42 (45.45%) TvZ 44–44 (50.00%) Really don't know how that happened tbh. There hasn't been a single ZvZ beside the WC-qualifier, therefore the "good Zerg" haven't been knocking each other out neither... The Zerg race just seems to die right now. 1. Smallest amount of participiants: Z: 37 T: 50 P :48 2. Based on wild card bracket 8 Z, 3T, 3P finished 3rd in their bracket, so lot of Zergs won few rounds but then failed to be in TOP2 This has happened for hot6 qualifiers as well, top Zerg players should have no problem defeating weaker Protoss/Terran players, but that's not what happens. Zerg either has worst players, or is weaker than P & T despite having maps that favor the race. Aligulac's top20 has 10 Terran players, 3 Zerg players, 7 protoss players.
Please name Top 6 Zerg players.
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On December 13 2014 04:31 keglu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 04:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 03:02 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 20:08 Swisslink wrote:On December 12 2014 14:27 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 10:16 sibs wrote:
So 4 Zergs qualified against 12 Terrans and 11 Protoss.
And the games were played on
Overgrowth LE
Daybreak LE
King Sejong Station LE 6 Zergs and they did best in terms of winrates PvT 47–41 (53.41%) PvZ 35–42 (45.45%) TvZ 44–44 (50.00%) Really don't know how that happened tbh. There hasn't been a single ZvZ beside the WC-qualifier, therefore the "good Zerg" haven't been knocking each other out neither... The Zerg race just seems to die right now. 1. Smallest amount of participiants: Z: 37 T: 50 P :48 2. Based on wild card bracket 8 Z, 3T, 3P finished 3rd in their bracket, so lot of Zergs won few rounds but then failed to be in TOP2 This has happened for hot6 qualifiers as well, top Zerg players should have no problem defeating weaker Protoss/Terran players, but that's not what happens. Zerg either has worst players, or is weaker than P & T despite having maps that favor the race. Aligulac's top20 has 10 Terran players, 3 Zerg players, 7 protoss players. Please name Top 6 Zerg players.
Life Solar soo Soulkey drg Sacsri, not sure whats the point of this, the weak race or the race with bad players is obviously not going to have as many "top" players.
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On December 13 2014 04:47 sibs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 04:31 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 03:02 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 20:08 Swisslink wrote:On December 12 2014 14:27 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 10:16 sibs wrote:
So 4 Zergs qualified against 12 Terrans and 11 Protoss.
And the games were played on
Overgrowth LE
Daybreak LE
King Sejong Station LE 6 Zergs and they did best in terms of winrates PvT 47–41 (53.41%) PvZ 35–42 (45.45%) TvZ 44–44 (50.00%) Really don't know how that happened tbh. There hasn't been a single ZvZ beside the WC-qualifier, therefore the "good Zerg" haven't been knocking each other out neither... The Zerg race just seems to die right now. 1. Smallest amount of participiants: Z: 37 T: 50 P :48 2. Based on wild card bracket 8 Z, 3T, 3P finished 3rd in their bracket, so lot of Zergs won few rounds but then failed to be in TOP2 This has happened for hot6 qualifiers as well, top Zerg players should have no problem defeating weaker Protoss/Terran players, but that's not what happens. Zerg either has worst players, or is weaker than P & T despite having maps that favor the race. Aligulac's top20 has 10 Terran players, 3 Zerg players, 7 protoss players. Please name Top 6 Zerg players. Life Solar soo Soulkey drg Sacsri, not sure whats the point of this, the weak race or the race with bad players is obviously not going to have as many "top" players.
I was interested who is considered Top Zerg now ouside of obvious like Soo and Life
BTW for Hot6ix winrates were
PvT 44–51 (46.32%)
PvZ 42–31 (57.53%)
TvZ 43–44 (49.43%)
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On December 13 2014 05:10 keglu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 04:47 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 04:31 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 03:02 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 20:08 Swisslink wrote:On December 12 2014 14:27 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 10:16 sibs wrote:
So 4 Zergs qualified against 12 Terrans and 11 Protoss.
And the games were played on
Overgrowth LE
Daybreak LE
King Sejong Station LE 6 Zergs and they did best in terms of winrates PvT 47–41 (53.41%) PvZ 35–42 (45.45%) TvZ 44–44 (50.00%) Really don't know how that happened tbh. There hasn't been a single ZvZ beside the WC-qualifier, therefore the "good Zerg" haven't been knocking each other out neither... The Zerg race just seems to die right now. 1. Smallest amount of participiants: Z: 37 T: 50 P :48 2. Based on wild card bracket 8 Z, 3T, 3P finished 3rd in their bracket, so lot of Zergs won few rounds but then failed to be in TOP2 This has happened for hot6 qualifiers as well, top Zerg players should have no problem defeating weaker Protoss/Terran players, but that's not what happens. Zerg either has worst players, or is weaker than P & T despite having maps that favor the race. Aligulac's top20 has 10 Terran players, 3 Zerg players, 7 protoss players. Please name Top 6 Zerg players. Life Solar soo Soulkey drg Sacsri, not sure whats the point of this, the weak race or the race with bad players is obviously not going to have as many "top" players. I was interested who is considered Top Zerg now ouside of obvious like Soo and Life BTW for Hot6ix winrates were PvT 44–51 (46.32%) PvZ 42–31 (57.53%) TvZ 43–44 (49.43%)
Yea unfiltered stats are pretty bad, the random mismatches add a lot of noise, I'd like to see AntiRW update his stats and see if Zerg/Protoss are getting less rekt by T at the top.
Initial data seems to point maps will not fix balance, so maybe blizzard should actually do something  .
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On December 13 2014 05:15 sibs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 05:10 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:47 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 04:31 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 03:02 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 20:08 Swisslink wrote:On December 12 2014 14:27 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 10:16 sibs wrote:
So 4 Zergs qualified against 12 Terrans and 11 Protoss.
And the games were played on
Overgrowth LE
Daybreak LE
King Sejong Station LE 6 Zergs and they did best in terms of winrates PvT 47–41 (53.41%) PvZ 35–42 (45.45%) TvZ 44–44 (50.00%) Really don't know how that happened tbh. There hasn't been a single ZvZ beside the WC-qualifier, therefore the "good Zerg" haven't been knocking each other out neither... The Zerg race just seems to die right now. 1. Smallest amount of participiants: Z: 37 T: 50 P :48 2. Based on wild card bracket 8 Z, 3T, 3P finished 3rd in their bracket, so lot of Zergs won few rounds but then failed to be in TOP2 This has happened for hot6 qualifiers as well, top Zerg players should have no problem defeating weaker Protoss/Terran players, but that's not what happens. Zerg either has worst players, or is weaker than P & T despite having maps that favor the race. Aligulac's top20 has 10 Terran players, 3 Zerg players, 7 protoss players. Please name Top 6 Zerg players. Life Solar soo Soulkey drg Sacsri, not sure whats the point of this, the weak race or the race with bad players is obviously not going to have as many "top" players. I was interested who is considered Top Zerg now ouside of obvious like Soo and Life BTW for Hot6ix winrates were PvT 44–51 (46.32%) PvZ 42–31 (57.53%) TvZ 43–44 (49.43%) Yea unfiltered stats are pretty bad, the random mismatches add a lot of noise, I'd like to see AntiRW update his stats and see if Zerg/Protoss are getting less rekt by T at the top. Initial data seems to point maps will not fix balance, so maybe blizzard should actually do something .
Both hot6ix and SL are basically only Korean pros. What do you want to filter?
To me it seems : only good stats are ones fitting my agenda.
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On December 13 2014 05:20 keglu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 05:15 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:10 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:47 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 04:31 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 03:02 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 20:08 Swisslink wrote:On December 12 2014 14:27 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 10:16 sibs wrote:
So 4 Zergs qualified against 12 Terrans and 11 Protoss.
And the games were played on
Overgrowth LE
Daybreak LE
King Sejong Station LE 6 Zergs and they did best in terms of winrates PvT 47–41 (53.41%) PvZ 35–42 (45.45%) TvZ 44–44 (50.00%) Really don't know how that happened tbh. There hasn't been a single ZvZ beside the WC-qualifier, therefore the "good Zerg" haven't been knocking each other out neither... The Zerg race just seems to die right now. 1. Smallest amount of participiants: Z: 37 T: 50 P :48 2. Based on wild card bracket 8 Z, 3T, 3P finished 3rd in their bracket, so lot of Zergs won few rounds but then failed to be in TOP2 This has happened for hot6 qualifiers as well, top Zerg players should have no problem defeating weaker Protoss/Terran players, but that's not what happens. Zerg either has worst players, or is weaker than P & T despite having maps that favor the race. Aligulac's top20 has 10 Terran players, 3 Zerg players, 7 protoss players. Please name Top 6 Zerg players. Life Solar soo Soulkey drg Sacsri, not sure whats the point of this, the weak race or the race with bad players is obviously not going to have as many "top" players. I was interested who is considered Top Zerg now ouside of obvious like Soo and Life BTW for Hot6ix winrates were PvT 44–51 (46.32%) PvZ 42–31 (57.53%) TvZ 43–44 (49.43%) Yea unfiltered stats are pretty bad, the random mismatches add a lot of noise, I'd like to see AntiRW update his stats and see if Zerg/Protoss are getting less rekt by T at the top. Initial data seems to point maps will not fix balance, so maybe blizzard should actually do something . Both hot6ix and SL are basically only Korean pros. What do you want to filter? To me it seems : only good stats are ones fitting my agenda.
Just being a korean pro does not make you a code S caliber player come on now, go and look at the people who attempted to qualify for these tournaments, there's quite a few players that I've never heard about such as http://aligulac.com/players/4735-SpeeD/ or http://aligulac.com/players/5203-Dynamite/ .
There's a ton of data that points to T considerably stronger at the top.
More tournament wins, almost double of P/Z individually..
More qualified players.
More players making deep runs into tournaments...
This type of thing will only show when you filter for skill.
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On December 13 2014 09:11 sibs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 05:20 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 05:15 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:10 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:47 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 04:31 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 03:02 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 20:08 Swisslink wrote:On December 12 2014 14:27 keglu wrote:
[quote]
6 Zergs and they did best in terms of winrates
PvT 47–41 (53.41%)
PvZ 35–42 (45.45%)
TvZ 44–44 (50.00%)
Really don't know how that happened tbh. There hasn't been a single ZvZ beside the WC-qualifier, therefore the "good Zerg" haven't been knocking each other out neither... The Zerg race just seems to die right now. 1. Smallest amount of participiants: Z: 37 T: 50 P :48 2. Based on wild card bracket 8 Z, 3T, 3P finished 3rd in their bracket, so lot of Zergs won few rounds but then failed to be in TOP2 This has happened for hot6 qualifiers as well, top Zerg players should have no problem defeating weaker Protoss/Terran players, but that's not what happens. Zerg either has worst players, or is weaker than P & T despite having maps that favor the race. Aligulac's top20 has 10 Terran players, 3 Zerg players, 7 protoss players. Please name Top 6 Zerg players. Life Solar soo Soulkey drg Sacsri, not sure whats the point of this, the weak race or the race with bad players is obviously not going to have as many "top" players. I was interested who is considered Top Zerg now ouside of obvious like Soo and Life BTW for Hot6ix winrates were PvT 44–51 (46.32%) PvZ 42–31 (57.53%) TvZ 43–44 (49.43%) Yea unfiltered stats are pretty bad, the random mismatches add a lot of noise, I'd like to see AntiRW update his stats and see if Zerg/Protoss are getting less rekt by T at the top. Initial data seems to point maps will not fix balance, so maybe blizzard should actually do something . Both hot6ix and SL are basically only Korean pros. What do you want to filter? To me it seems : only good stats are ones fitting my agenda. Just being a korean pro does not make you a code S caliber player, go and look at the people who attempted to qualify for these tournaments. There's a ton of data that points to T considerably stronger at the top. More tournament wins, almost double of P/Z individually.. More qualified players. More players making deep runs into tournaments... This type of thing will only show when you filter for skill.
And what formula have you divined for filtering for skill that is giving you these conclusions?
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On December 13 2014 05:15 sibs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 05:10 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:47 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 04:31 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 03:02 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 20:08 Swisslink wrote:On December 12 2014 14:27 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 10:16 sibs wrote:
So 4 Zergs qualified against 12 Terrans and 11 Protoss.
And the games were played on
Overgrowth LE
Daybreak LE
King Sejong Station LE 6 Zergs and they did best in terms of winrates PvT 47–41 (53.41%) PvZ 35–42 (45.45%) TvZ 44–44 (50.00%) Really don't know how that happened tbh. There hasn't been a single ZvZ beside the WC-qualifier, therefore the "good Zerg" haven't been knocking each other out neither... The Zerg race just seems to die right now. 1. Smallest amount of participiants: Z: 37 T: 50 P :48 2. Based on wild card bracket 8 Z, 3T, 3P finished 3rd in their bracket, so lot of Zergs won few rounds but then failed to be in TOP2 This has happened for hot6 qualifiers as well, top Zerg players should have no problem defeating weaker Protoss/Terran players, but that's not what happens. Zerg either has worst players, or is weaker than P & T despite having maps that favor the race. Aligulac's top20 has 10 Terran players, 3 Zerg players, 7 protoss players. Please name Top 6 Zerg players. Life Solar soo Soulkey drg Sacsri, not sure whats the point of this, the weak race or the race with bad players is obviously not going to have as many "top" players. I was interested who is considered Top Zerg now ouside of obvious like Soo and Life BTW for Hot6ix winrates were PvT 44–51 (46.32%) PvZ 42–31 (57.53%) TvZ 43–44 (49.43%) Yea unfiltered stats are pretty bad, the random mismatches add a lot of noise, I'd like to see AntiRW update his stats and see if Zerg/Protoss are getting less rekt by T at the top. Initial data seems to point maps will not fix balance, so maybe blizzard should actually do something .
Could you share the initial data you have on maps not fixing data? I must have missed the tournaments on new maps.
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On December 13 2014 09:11 sibs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 05:20 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 05:15 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:10 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:47 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 04:31 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 03:02 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 20:08 Swisslink wrote:On December 12 2014 14:27 keglu wrote:
[quote]
6 Zergs and they did best in terms of winrates
PvT 47–41 (53.41%)
PvZ 35–42 (45.45%)
TvZ 44–44 (50.00%)
Really don't know how that happened tbh. There hasn't been a single ZvZ beside the WC-qualifier, therefore the "good Zerg" haven't been knocking each other out neither... The Zerg race just seems to die right now. 1. Smallest amount of participiants: Z: 37 T: 50 P :48 2. Based on wild card bracket 8 Z, 3T, 3P finished 3rd in their bracket, so lot of Zergs won few rounds but then failed to be in TOP2 This has happened for hot6 qualifiers as well, top Zerg players should have no problem defeating weaker Protoss/Terran players, but that's not what happens. Zerg either has worst players, or is weaker than P & T despite having maps that favor the race. Aligulac's top20 has 10 Terran players, 3 Zerg players, 7 protoss players. Please name Top 6 Zerg players. Life Solar soo Soulkey drg Sacsri, not sure whats the point of this, the weak race or the race with bad players is obviously not going to have as many "top" players. I was interested who is considered Top Zerg now ouside of obvious like Soo and Life BTW for Hot6ix winrates were PvT 44–51 (46.32%) PvZ 42–31 (57.53%) TvZ 43–44 (49.43%) Yea unfiltered stats are pretty bad, the random mismatches add a lot of noise, I'd like to see AntiRW update his stats and see if Zerg/Protoss are getting less rekt by T at the top. Initial data seems to point maps will not fix balance, so maybe blizzard should actually do something . Both hot6ix and SL are basically only Korean pros. What do you want to filter? To me it seems : only good stats are ones fitting my agenda. Just being a korean pro does not make you a code S caliber player come on now, go and look at the people who attempted to qualify for these tournaments, there's quite a few players that I've never heard about such as http://aligulac.com/players/4735-SpeeD/ or http://aligulac.com/players/5203-Dynamite/ . There's a ton of data that points to T considerably stronger at the top. More tournament wins, almost double of P/Z individually..More qualified players. More players making deep runs into tournaments... This type of thing will only show when you filter for skill.
The most recent majors are hero, sOs and Life, AFAIK.
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On December 13 2014 09:21 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 09:11 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:20 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 05:15 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:10 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:47 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 04:31 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 03:02 keglu wrote:On December 12 2014 20:08 Swisslink wrote:
[quote]
Really don't know how that happened tbh.
There hasn't been a single ZvZ beside the WC-qualifier, therefore the "good Zerg" haven't been knocking each other out neither...
The Zerg race just seems to die right now. 1. Smallest amount of participiants: Z: 37 T: 50 P :48 2. Based on wild card bracket 8 Z, 3T, 3P finished 3rd in their bracket, so lot of Zergs won few rounds but then failed to be in TOP2 This has happened for hot6 qualifiers as well, top Zerg players should have no problem defeating weaker Protoss/Terran players, but that's not what happens. Zerg either has worst players, or is weaker than P & T despite having maps that favor the race. Aligulac's top20 has 10 Terran players, 3 Zerg players, 7 protoss players. Please name Top 6 Zerg players. Life Solar soo Soulkey drg Sacsri, not sure whats the point of this, the weak race or the race with bad players is obviously not going to have as many "top" players. I was interested who is considered Top Zerg now ouside of obvious like Soo and Life BTW for Hot6ix winrates were PvT 44–51 (46.32%) PvZ 42–31 (57.53%) TvZ 43–44 (49.43%) Yea unfiltered stats are pretty bad, the random mismatches add a lot of noise, I'd like to see AntiRW update his stats and see if Zerg/Protoss are getting less rekt by T at the top. Initial data seems to point maps will not fix balance, so maybe blizzard should actually do something . Both hot6ix and SL are basically only Korean pros. What do you want to filter? To me it seems : only good stats are ones fitting my agenda. Just being a korean pro does not make you a code S caliber player come on now, go and look at the people who attempted to qualify for these tournaments, there's quite a few players that I've never heard about such as http://aligulac.com/players/4735-SpeeD/ or http://aligulac.com/players/5203-Dynamite/ . There's a ton of data that points to T considerably stronger at the top. More tournament wins, almost double of P/Z individually..More qualified players. More players making deep runs into tournaments... This type of thing will only show when you filter for skill. The most recent majors are hero, sOs and Life, AFAIK.
Since the patch.
Yea the SSL qualifiers used a different map pool, all maps that are at least decent for Zerg.
Maybe blizz will release a bunch of reaaaally zerg favored maps, would be interesting.
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On December 13 2014 09:24 sibs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 09:21 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 13 2014 09:11 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:20 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 05:15 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:10 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:47 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 04:31 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 03:02 keglu wrote:
[quote]
1. Smallest amount of participiants:
Z: 37
T: 50
P :48
2. Based on wild card bracket 8 Z, 3T, 3P finished 3rd in their bracket, so lot of Zergs won few rounds but then failed to be in TOP2
This has happened for hot6 qualifiers as well, top Zerg players should have no problem defeating weaker Protoss/Terran players, but that's not what happens. Zerg either has worst players, or is weaker than P & T despite having maps that favor the race. Aligulac's top20 has 10 Terran players, 3 Zerg players, 7 protoss players. Please name Top 6 Zerg players. Life Solar soo Soulkey drg Sacsri, not sure whats the point of this, the weak race or the race with bad players is obviously not going to have as many "top" players. I was interested who is considered Top Zerg now ouside of obvious like Soo and Life BTW for Hot6ix winrates were PvT 44–51 (46.32%) PvZ 42–31 (57.53%) TvZ 43–44 (49.43%) Yea unfiltered stats are pretty bad, the random mismatches add a lot of noise, I'd like to see AntiRW update his stats and see if Zerg/Protoss are getting less rekt by T at the top. Initial data seems to point maps will not fix balance, so maybe blizzard should actually do something . Both hot6ix and SL are basically only Korean pros. What do you want to filter? To me it seems : only good stats are ones fitting my agenda. Just being a korean pro does not make you a code S caliber player come on now, go and look at the people who attempted to qualify for these tournaments, there's quite a few players that I've never heard about such as http://aligulac.com/players/4735-SpeeD/ or http://aligulac.com/players/5203-Dynamite/ . There's a ton of data that points to T considerably stronger at the top. More tournament wins, almost double of P/Z individually..More qualified players. More players making deep runs into tournaments... This type of thing will only show when you filter for skill. The most recent majors are hero, sOs and Life, AFAIK. Since the patch. Yea the SSL qualifiers used a different map pool, all maps that are at least decent for Zerg. Maybe blizz will release a bunch of reaaaally zerg favored maps, would be interesting.
I'm sorry, but your bias is showing.
After a patch players need time to adapt.
As for SSL, it's not like Daybreak, Overgrowth and King Sejong (IIRC SSL map pool) are perfect maps. Add to that that balance in Top 3 is as perfect as you can ask for. Yes, sadly, they didn't manage to qualify, but with such a tiny sample and Top 3 being that balanced, that is no reason to cry imbaimba.
Most recent results look really damn fair. Sorry.
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On December 13 2014 09:35 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 09:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 09:21 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 13 2014 09:11 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:20 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 05:15 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:10 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:47 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 04:31 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:24 sibs wrote:
[quote]
This has happened for hot6 qualifiers as well, top Zerg players should have no problem defeating weaker Protoss/Terran players, but that's not what happens.
Zerg either has worst players, or is weaker than P & T despite having maps that favor the race.
Aligulac's top20 has 10 Terran players, 3 Zerg players, 7 protoss players. Please name Top 6 Zerg players. Life Solar soo Soulkey drg Sacsri, not sure whats the point of this, the weak race or the race with bad players is obviously not going to have as many "top" players. I was interested who is considered Top Zerg now ouside of obvious like Soo and Life BTW for Hot6ix winrates were PvT 44–51 (46.32%) PvZ 42–31 (57.53%) TvZ 43–44 (49.43%) Yea unfiltered stats are pretty bad, the random mismatches add a lot of noise, I'd like to see AntiRW update his stats and see if Zerg/Protoss are getting less rekt by T at the top. Initial data seems to point maps will not fix balance, so maybe blizzard should actually do something . Both hot6ix and SL are basically only Korean pros. What do you want to filter? To me it seems : only good stats are ones fitting my agenda. Just being a korean pro does not make you a code S caliber player come on now, go and look at the people who attempted to qualify for these tournaments, there's quite a few players that I've never heard about such as http://aligulac.com/players/4735-SpeeD/ or http://aligulac.com/players/5203-Dynamite/ . There's a ton of data that points to T considerably stronger at the top. More tournament wins, almost double of P/Z individually..More qualified players. More players making deep runs into tournaments... This type of thing will only show when you filter for skill. The most recent majors are hero, sOs and Life, AFAIK. Since the patch. Yea the SSL qualifiers used a different map pool, all maps that are at least decent for Zerg. Maybe blizz will release a bunch of reaaaally zerg favored maps, would be interesting. I'm sorry, but your bias is showing. After a patch players need time to adapt. Also, it's not like Daybreak, Overgrowth and King Sejong (IIRC SSL map pool) are perfect maps. Add to that that balance in Top 3 is as perfect as you can ask for. Yes, sadly, they didn't manage to qualify, but with such a tiny sample and Top 3 being that balanced, that is no reason to cry imbaimba. Most recent results look really damn fair. Sorry.
"Add to that that balance in Top 3 is as perfect as you can ask for. Yes, sadly, they didn't manage to qualify, but with such a tiny sample and Top 3 being that balanced, that is no reason to cry imbaimba."
I don't even understand what you're trying to say.
Balance in top3?
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On December 13 2014 09:43 sibs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 09:35 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 13 2014 09:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 09:21 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 13 2014 09:11 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:20 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 05:15 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:10 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:47 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 04:31 keglu wrote:
[quote]
Please name Top 6 Zerg players.
Life Solar soo Soulkey drg Sacsri, not sure whats the point of this, the weak race or the race with bad players is obviously not going to have as many "top" players. I was interested who is considered Top Zerg now ouside of obvious like Soo and Life BTW for Hot6ix winrates were PvT 44–51 (46.32%) PvZ 42–31 (57.53%) TvZ 43–44 (49.43%) Yea unfiltered stats are pretty bad, the random mismatches add a lot of noise, I'd like to see AntiRW update his stats and see if Zerg/Protoss are getting less rekt by T at the top. Initial data seems to point maps will not fix balance, so maybe blizzard should actually do something . Both hot6ix and SL are basically only Korean pros. What do you want to filter? To me it seems : only good stats are ones fitting my agenda. Just being a korean pro does not make you a code S caliber player come on now, go and look at the people who attempted to qualify for these tournaments, there's quite a few players that I've never heard about such as http://aligulac.com/players/4735-SpeeD/ or http://aligulac.com/players/5203-Dynamite/ . There's a ton of data that points to T considerably stronger at the top. More tournament wins, almost double of P/Z individually..More qualified players. More players making deep runs into tournaments... This type of thing will only show when you filter for skill. The most recent majors are hero, sOs and Life, AFAIK. Since the patch. Yea the SSL qualifiers used a different map pool, all maps that are at least decent for Zerg. Maybe blizz will release a bunch of reaaaally zerg favored maps, would be interesting. I'm sorry, but your bias is showing. After a patch players need time to adapt. Also, it's not like Daybreak, Overgrowth and King Sejong (IIRC SSL map pool) are perfect maps. Add to that that balance in Top 3 is as perfect as you can ask for. Yes, sadly, they didn't manage to qualify, but with such a tiny sample and Top 3 being that balanced, that is no reason to cry imbaimba. Most recent results look really damn fair. Sorry. "Add to that that balance in Top 3 is as perfect as you can ask for. Yes, sadly, they didn't manage to qualify, but with such a tiny sample and Top 3 being that balanced, that is no reason to cry imbaimba." I don't even understand what you're trying to say. Balance in top3?
SSL.
Racial distribution in Top 3 of the brackets is near perfect.
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On December 13 2014 09:47 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 09:43 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 09:35 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 13 2014 09:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 09:21 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 13 2014 09:11 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:20 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 05:15 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:10 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 04:47 sibs wrote:
[quote]
Life Solar soo Soulkey drg Sacsri, not sure whats the point of this, the weak race or the race with bad players is obviously not going to have as many "top" players. I was interested who is considered Top Zerg now ouside of obvious like Soo and Life BTW for Hot6ix winrates were PvT 44–51 (46.32%) PvZ 42–31 (57.53%) TvZ 43–44 (49.43%) Yea unfiltered stats are pretty bad, the random mismatches add a lot of noise, I'd like to see AntiRW update his stats and see if Zerg/Protoss are getting less rekt by T at the top. Initial data seems to point maps will not fix balance, so maybe blizzard should actually do something . Both hot6ix and SL are basically only Korean pros. What do you want to filter? To me it seems : only good stats are ones fitting my agenda. Just being a korean pro does not make you a code S caliber player come on now, go and look at the people who attempted to qualify for these tournaments, there's quite a few players that I've never heard about such as http://aligulac.com/players/4735-SpeeD/ or http://aligulac.com/players/5203-Dynamite/ . There's a ton of data that points to T considerably stronger at the top. More tournament wins, almost double of P/Z individually..More qualified players. More players making deep runs into tournaments... This type of thing will only show when you filter for skill. The most recent majors are hero, sOs and Life, AFAIK. Since the patch. Yea the SSL qualifiers used a different map pool, all maps that are at least decent for Zerg. Maybe blizz will release a bunch of reaaaally zerg favored maps, would be interesting. I'm sorry, but your bias is showing. After a patch players need time to adapt. Also, it's not like Daybreak, Overgrowth and King Sejong (IIRC SSL map pool) are perfect maps. Add to that that balance in Top 3 is as perfect as you can ask for. Yes, sadly, they didn't manage to qualify, but with such a tiny sample and Top 3 being that balanced, that is no reason to cry imbaimba. Most recent results look really damn fair. Sorry. "Add to that that balance in Top 3 is as perfect as you can ask for. Yes, sadly, they didn't manage to qualify, but with such a tiny sample and Top 3 being that balanced, that is no reason to cry imbaimba." I don't even understand what you're trying to say. Balance in top3? SSL. Racial distribution in Top 3 of the brackets is near perfect.
Top 3 on those brackets means close to nothing players got there beating 1 player or ZERO players in the case of aphrodite, are you being serious?
DRG beat some protoss named "Stun".
I really rather use tournament wins or deep tournament finishes (ro4) or Code S player winrates.
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On December 13 2014 09:54 sibs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 09:47 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 13 2014 09:43 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 09:35 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 13 2014 09:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 09:21 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 13 2014 09:11 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:20 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 05:15 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:10 keglu wrote:
[quote]
I was interested who is considered Top Zerg now ouside of obvious like Soo and Life
BTW for Hot6ix winrates were
PvT 44–51 (46.32%)
PvZ 42–31 (57.53%)
TvZ 43–44 (49.43%)
Yea unfiltered stats are pretty bad, the random mismatches add a lot of noise, I'd like to see AntiRW update his stats and see if Zerg/Protoss are getting less rekt by T at the top. Initial data seems to point maps will not fix balance, so maybe blizzard should actually do something . Both hot6ix and SL are basically only Korean pros. What do you want to filter? To me it seems : only good stats are ones fitting my agenda. Just being a korean pro does not make you a code S caliber player come on now, go and look at the people who attempted to qualify for these tournaments, there's quite a few players that I've never heard about such as http://aligulac.com/players/4735-SpeeD/ or http://aligulac.com/players/5203-Dynamite/ . There's a ton of data that points to T considerably stronger at the top. More tournament wins, almost double of P/Z individually..More qualified players. More players making deep runs into tournaments... This type of thing will only show when you filter for skill. The most recent majors are hero, sOs and Life, AFAIK. Since the patch. Yea the SSL qualifiers used a different map pool, all maps that are at least decent for Zerg. Maybe blizz will release a bunch of reaaaally zerg favored maps, would be interesting. I'm sorry, but your bias is showing. After a patch players need time to adapt. Also, it's not like Daybreak, Overgrowth and King Sejong (IIRC SSL map pool) are perfect maps. Add to that that balance in Top 3 is as perfect as you can ask for. Yes, sadly, they didn't manage to qualify, but with such a tiny sample and Top 3 being that balanced, that is no reason to cry imbaimba. Most recent results look really damn fair. Sorry. "Add to that that balance in Top 3 is as perfect as you can ask for. Yes, sadly, they didn't manage to qualify, but with such a tiny sample and Top 3 being that balanced, that is no reason to cry imbaimba." I don't even understand what you're trying to say. Balance in top3? SSL. Racial distribution in Top 3 of the brackets is near perfect. Top 3 on those brackets means close to nothing players got there beating 1 player or ZERO players in the case of aphrodite, are you being serious? DRG beat some protoss named "Stun". I really rather use tournament wins or deep tournament finishes (ro4) or Code S player winrates.
You'd rather use evidence that favors your opinion. I understand.
Code S is not running currently.
The Terran-won tournaments you are referring to were straight after the patch. The four most recent (past 1,5 month IIRC) tournaments have T/Z/P/P as winners with an additional Z/T/P/T in second place (1 ForGG/Life/Hero/Sos 2 Life/MMA/Rain/MVPMK). That is 2/3/3. That's as perfect as it gets. Now, there's a lot of complaints to make about this sample size, but these are the most recent high level tournaments.
As for SSL qualifiers; Top 3 is really well balanced, top 2 less so. That's what happens when brackets and small samples are involved. Add to that Zerg had less sign ups to begin with, and all seems fine in the world.
There might be small, SMALL problems, but you have no evidence to support the claim it goes further than maps nor do you have any substantial evidence at all there's large racial imbalance at play.
Now, you can continue with nitpicking on details of every statistic I come up with, but please, present your own (well explained and reasonable) statistics or pieces of evidence. That'd certainly help our discussion.
Good luck!
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On December 13 2014 10:06 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 09:54 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 09:47 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 13 2014 09:43 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 09:35 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 13 2014 09:24 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 09:21 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 13 2014 09:11 sibs wrote:On December 13 2014 05:20 keglu wrote:On December 13 2014 05:15 sibs wrote:[quote] Yea unfiltered stats are pretty bad, the random mismatches add a lot of noise, I'd like to see AntiRW update his stats and see if Zerg/Protoss are getting less rekt by T at the top. Initial data seems to point maps will not fix balance, so maybe blizzard should actually do something . Both hot6ix and SL are basically only Korean pros. What do you want to filter? To me it seems : only good stats are ones fitting my agenda. Just being a korean pro does not make you a code S caliber player come on now, go and look at the people who attempted to qualify for these tournaments, there's quite a few players that I've never heard about such as http://aligulac.com/players/4735-SpeeD/ or http://aligulac.com/players/5203-Dynamite/ . There's a ton of data that points to T considerably stronger at the top. More tournament wins, almost double of P/Z individually..More qualified players. More players making deep runs into tournaments... This type of thing will only show when you filter for skill. The most recent majors are hero, sOs and Life, AFAIK. Since the patch. Yea the SSL qualifiers used a different map pool, all maps that are at least decent for Zerg. Maybe blizz will release a bunch of reaaaally zerg favored maps, would be interesting. I'm sorry, but your bias is showing. After a patch players need time to adapt. Also, it's not like Daybreak, Overgrowth and King Sejong (IIRC SSL map pool) are perfect maps. Add to that that balance in Top 3 is as perfect as you can ask for. Yes, sadly, they didn't manage to qualify, but with such a tiny sample and Top 3 being that balanced, that is no reason to cry imbaimba. Most recent results look really damn fair. Sorry. "Add to that that balance in Top 3 is as perfect as you can ask for. Yes, sadly, they didn't manage to qualify, but with such a tiny sample and Top 3 being that balanced, that is no reason to cry imbaimba." I don't even understand what you're trying to say. Balance in top3? SSL. Racial distribution in Top 3 of the brackets is near perfect. Top 3 on those brackets means close to nothing players got there beating 1 player or ZERO players in the case of aphrodite, are you being serious? DRG beat some protoss named "Stun". I really rather use tournament wins or deep tournament finishes (ro4) or Code S player winrates. You'd rather use evidence that favors your opinion. I understand. Code S is not running currently. The Terran-won tournaments you are referring to were straight after the patch. The four most recent (past 1,5 month IIRC) tournaments have T/Z/P/P as winners with an additional Z/T/P/T in second place (1 ForGG/Life/Hero/Sos 2 Life/MMA/Rain/MVPMK). That is 2/3/3. That's as perfect as it gets. Now, there's a lot of complaints to make about this sample size, but these are the most recent high level tournaments. As for SSL qualifiers; Top 3 is really well balanced, top 2 less so. That's what happens when brackets and small samples are involved. Add to that Zerg had less sign ups to begin with, and all seems fine in the world. There might be small, SMALL problems, but you have no evidence to support the claim it goes further than maps nor do you have any substantial evidence at all there's large racial imbalance at play. Now, you can continue with nitpicking on details of every statistic I come up with, but please, present your own (well explained and reasonable) statistics or pieces of evidence. That'd certainly help our discussion. Good luck!
You have a point mentioning recent tournaments, but mentioning Top3 SSL Qualifiers is just nonsense, as I just pointed out.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments
Terran dominance among winners did get broken, in fact Zerg won more than Terran if you only consider the last 6, however if you actually look at the top finishers most are still Terran. DH was all Terran besides Life, Blizzcon 2 of 4 were Terran, hot6 50% terran representation from ro8 on... etc.. Pretty sure that's just a fluke and we'll see a lot of terran winners coming up! Maybe even MKP can finish second some more times lol.
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EPT
