Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 1208

On November 21 2014 20:08 The_Red_Viper wrote:

Then you should watch the games. I mean maybe it is whine, but i don't even play Protoss :D
I just feel bad for them in TvP, doesn't look managable against multi pronged attacks

On November 21 2014 20:11 Big J wrote:


Yup, that's how I'd rate the top 3 Terrans when talking about their results on top-Korean level. Though Maru and Innovation are interchangable imo.
For Protoss it's imo #1 Zest, #2-4 herO, Classic, Rain and then #5-#6 are Parting and sOs. Looking it up, I thought Dear still had stronger results at the start of the year, that's why I said Parting #7, though reconsidering he is #5 or #6 (that IEM WC that sOs won was really stacked).

On November 21 2014 20:10 showstealer1829 wrote:
I think it was more a case of BByong playing the practice than Terran OP.

As a Protoss Widow mines can go to hell though

On November 21 2014 20:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:

Well Parting and Zest didn't have any chance. I feel like Toss lacks the tools to defend this kind of play on these kind of maps :/

On November 21 2014 20:20 The_Red_Viper wrote:

I am not quite sure what your point is.
Terminator is just pretty bad?
I don't think you can say the same about Zest, Parting, herO and Classic

On November 21 2014 20:29 The_Red_Viper wrote:

Yes but his point isn't really valid in this case.
I mean sure, Bbyong played really well, but you also have to ask yourself what tools Protoss has to stop these attacks/drops.
I mean i like watching these fast paced games where both players have to multitask, but i would argue that the toss has a MUCH harder time defending 3 fronts at once than the terran to attack.

On November 21 2014 20:29 The_Red_Viper wrote:

Yes but his point isn't really valid in this case.
I mean sure, Bbyong played really well, but you also have to ask yourself what tools Protoss has to stop these attacks/drops.
I mean i like watching these fast paced games where both players have to multitask, but i would argue that the toss has a MUCH harder time defending 3 fronts at once than the terran to attack.

On November 21 2014 20:29 The_Red_Viper wrote:

Yes but his point isn't really valid in this case.
I mean sure, Bbyong played really well, but you also have to ask yourself what tools Protoss has to stop these attacks/drops.
I mean i like watching these fast paced games where both players have to multitask, but i would argue that the toss has a MUCH harder time defending 3 fronts at once than the terran to attack.

On November 21 2014 21:38 Ghanburighan wrote:


I watched game 2 of Bbyong v Zest. Things that Zest could have done:

- Not choose that terrible map.
- Kept up with his macro
- Moved probes away instead of letting a WM kill (sic!) 8 probes in a single hit. He clearly had his attention there, as he was microing his stalkers. between those probes
- Focused down medivacs and WMs with his blink stalkers
- Attacked with his blink stalker timing against an inferior terran force out in the open without stim, instead of backing off for no reason.
- Split his units so his 3rd base wouldn't die to a single dropship. There was nothing else going on, and he had colossus idling at his natural.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Zest played like a broken player.

On November 21 2014 21:38 Ghanburighan wrote:


I watched game 2 of Bbyong v Zest. Things that Zest could have done:

- Not choose that terrible map.
- Kept up with his macro
- Moved probes away instead of letting a WM kill (sic!) 8 probes in a single hit. He clearly had his attention there, as he was microing his stalkers. between those probes
- Focused down medivacs and WMs with his blink stalkers
- Attacked with his blink stalker timing against an inferior terran force out in the open without stim, instead of backing off for no reason.
- Split his units so his 3rd base wouldn't die to a single dropship. There was nothing else going on, and he had colossus idling at his natural.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Zest played like a broken player.

On November 21 2014 23:52 pure.Wasted wrote:
I think this conversation about the inherent limitations of the Protoss race (specifically that bases can't be too spread out or Protoss can't even defend effectively), so I posted in the LOTV Update thread to hopefully get some people who don't frequent this thread to thinking about this.

LOTV is changing up how many expansions players need to keep track of, but as of right now it's not giving Protoss many (any?) new options for playing a harass-intensive 5 base vs 5 base style game, which is like... a crazy huge deal.

If Bbyong's games vs PartinG and Zest on King Sejong are a precursor of what happens to Protoss in LOTV, I don't want the inevitable solution to be "make Terran not be able to do that," because "that" in this case is "showing off godly multitasking." I want the solution to be "make the Protoss be able to respond in kind." I would hope that most posters here agree.

One suggestion that gets brought up a lot is getting rid of/revamping the Colossus while buffing Gateway units. Would that solve all of our problems, though? Would buffed Zealots on a 5 base economy be interesting to watch, or, for that matter, skill intensive to use? They're 1A now, they'll be 1A in LOTV, regardless of how much stronger they are... unless they become more responsive, get a new ability, something. Maybe buffed Stalkers + HT would be interesting enough?

Does anyone have ideas?

On November 22 2014 00:14 johnbongham wrote:
Bbyong just outplayed both Parting and Zest today. It was completely obvious that he came prepared and they did not, at least on the same level. The amount of mistakes both players made had nothing to do with balance.

On November 22 2014 00:31 LoneYoShi wrote:


Problem is, in the current state of the game, if the protoss players manages to get to 5v5 bases, lategame zealot runbies/warpins, DT harass, storm drops and all are already super strong (and the number 1 reason why terran players avoid lategame vP at all costs).
So I'm not sure of how to buff the protoss midgame harrass (which data seem to indicate they might need) while not completely screwing terrans over once it goes late and P can afford warp prisms, DTs and all...

Edit: this is only my point of view though, and as a diamond terran, who play mostly passive and very macro oriented. I tend to lose a lot lategame vsP because harrass is so hard to deal with and new bases so hard to set up. So maybe my opinions are a reflect of my personnal struggles. Don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong.

On November 22 2014 00:38 deacon.frost wrote:

It is about balance. On open base maps protoss have problem with defending 3 base economy. Zest, San, Parting - each of these players have problem with drops on 3 bases at the same time. KSS is great map for this style, better is only "Leenock map"(Catallena). San lost several games there with Templar opening(for those saying tthat feedback counters this style) on Catallena.

If you want to ignore this problem at all, we will stop having these maps or Blizzard will nerf the shit out of Terrans. The worst possible result will be another all in party after buffing Protoss. Do not forget that in LotV you are forced to take bases much faster. And once you have more bases you still have to defend your main, you cannot relocate your tech in any easy way(building new robos/stargates).

Right now Protoss have problem in defending multiple harass drops at the same time, because small groups of stimmed bio with medevacs are now always better than small groups of protoss units. It is logical, you cannot buff those units because otherwise 4gate to victory. It is a balance problem(and a design too).