EPTThe maps and the very limited number of viable openings gives T the advantage at this point in time I think.
Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 1119
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
The maps and the very limited number of viable openings gives T the advantage at this point in time I think. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Of the speedling allin opening, of the other speedling allin opening, of the third speedling allin opening, of the speedling allin opening with banelings of the speedling allin opening with more banelings of the 8pool allin, of the 10pool allin, of the 10pool speedling allin, of the 10pool baneling allin of the 10pool speedling+baneling allin...  Such a waste of time. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 03 2014 00:12 Big J wrote: Of the speedling allin opening, of the other speedling allin opening, of the third speedling allin opening, of the speedling allin opening with banelings of the speedling allin opening with more banelings of the 8pool allin, of the 10pool allin, of the 10pool speedling allin, of the 10pool baneling allin of the 10pool speedling+baneling allin... Such a waste of time. That's what you veto nimbus and catalena (OMG TERRAN OP on this map) and do the gasless 4queen build. You'll die a few times to the lings allin but when you get used to the build... You'll still get killed by 8pool but if you're diamond you'll know when to adapt. Got 6pooled 5time in a row last week. Still at 65% I got from 45% to 65% WR If i can kill diamond Z as a plat on 2player spots when they opening speedling pressure/allin whatever 14pool/hatch first and whatnot with this... i'm sure you can too. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 03 2014 00:14 FFW_Rude wrote: That's what you veto nimbus and catalena (OMG TERRAN OP on this map) and do the gasless 4queen build. You'll die a few times to the lings allin but when you get used to the build... You'll still get killed by 8pool but if you're diamond you'll know when to adapt. Got 6pooled 5time in a row last week. Still at 65% I got from 45% to 65% WR If i can kill diamond Z as a plat on 2player spots when they opening speedling pressure/allin whatever 14pool/hatch first and whatnot with this... i'm sure you can too. I think my winrate when I actually play ZvZ is pretty good. I hold most allins, unless I missread them. I just don't want to play against them, when I could instead play a macro game in ZvT. Or a game of DotA. Or pick my nose. Lots of interesting things to do in life, defending cheeses so that you can get stuck in roach wars is not one of them. | ||
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BueBz_
United States15 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 03 2014 00:47 The_Red_Viper wrote: I would rather play 100 zvz's one after another than one single zvp where i have to go swarmhosts I don't think i ever saw something that wasn't proxy two gate or canon rush from a protoss this season. | ||
Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 03 2014 11:50 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm in the cesspool of platinum zergs and let me tell you how little I enjoy this game after 5 straight ZvZs only to finally get a ZvT and get 2raxed. Which of course means I have to wade through 4 or 5 more ZvZ before I get the chance to lose to T or P. After so many ZvZs in a row I forget how the other matchups even work. Guess the only option is to learn a new race and hope the mirror is more fun. ZvZ got me Diamond last night. Don't be discouraged ! Also.. PvP is like ZvZ (kinda) and TvT is really hard. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 03 2014 11:50 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm in the cesspool of platinum zergs and let me tell you how little I enjoy this game after 5 straight ZvZs only to finally get a ZvT and get 2raxed. Which of course means I have to wade through 4 or 5 more ZvZ before I get the chance to lose to T or P. After so many ZvZs in a row I forget how the other matchups even work. Guess the only option is to learn a new race and hope the mirror is more fun. Oh, poor you. Now think about this. Diamond Protoss EU. The end of the WoL era. The ratio of my MU played is 5:3:2(Z  T). Because I hate allining I am not using Soul train. Every, and by every I mean EVERY, PvZ is a Vortix  hiting contest. You miss it, you lost. Every game is BLord infestor turtle fest.Now we are in HotS, cool, new era, new game, new ladder. The ratio is still the same. My most hated MU(PvZ) is still the most played. How cool it is, because on the ladder I meet mostly SH or mass mutalisk players. So yeah, every PvZ I play I either have to all in or accept, that I will go against endless stream of free units, or even worse, flying regenerating madness which can be defended by the only one unit(hack, in WoL I was defending this style with storms, it was so cool to storm my probes from time to time and kill mutas as well, totally worth it into losing horribly :D But it was fun, no "shit, I cannot build enough phoenixes, I lost the game now(!!)). This is going now for how long, 2 years? Yaaaaaay... Play unranked like me, leave games based on match ups or do insane tactics because you are bored(Has tactics - proxy everything). | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 03 2014 17:41 bo1b wrote: Pretty convinced 10 pool is hands down the best build in zvz, and if you're not doing it you should be ashamed. Which 10pool? The 10pool with mass zergling? The 10pool with drones pulled? The 10pool with banelings? The 10pool with speedlings? The 10pool with speedlings and banelings? The 10pool with proxy spine? The 10pool with Spore crawler on Habitation Station? The 10pool with a hatchery follow up? The 10pool with a 1base Nydus/Swarm Host follow up? The 10pool with all of the above? Well, I'm a shameless metagame abuser that goes pool first.  | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 03 2014 17:41 bo1b wrote: Pretty convinced 10 pool is hands down the best build in zvz, and if you're not doing it you should be ashamed. 10 pool is like proxy gate. You should be ashame to do it :p | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On October 03 2014 17:45 Big J wrote: Which 10pool? The 10pool with mass zergling? The 10pool with drones pulled? The 10pool with banelings? The 10pool with speedlings? The 10pool with speedlings and banelings? The 10pool with proxy spine? The 10pool with Spore crawler on Habitation Station? The 10pool with a hatchery follow up? The 10pool with a 1base Nydus/Swarm Host follow up? The 10pool with all of the above? Well, I'm a shameless metagame abuser that goes pool first. 10 pool with 6 zerglings - > see what they have and react. It's why I think the builds so disgusting, at worse you force a hatch cancel and end up slightly behind or slightly in front. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 03 2014 18:21 bo1b wrote: 10 pool with 6 zerglings - > see what they have and react. It's why I think the builds so disgusting, at worse you force a hatch cancel and end up slightly behind or slightly in front. 15pool 16hatch 15overlord --> at this point you should know it is a 10pool 15queen 17zergling 18gas 17zergling -->keep on making zerglings as appropriate (if none are rallied besides the first 6, stop at 8 for example) With your first 4lings you pull ~6drones and go down and safe the hatch. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On October 03 2014 18:50 Ghanburighan wrote: Aren't you supposed to defence it? Dunno, making hatch and defence it seems hard sometimes | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 03 2014 19:38 Karpfen wrote: With a 15 pool you have no excuse for losing a hatchery to a 10 pool. Yes you can have one. Just use #TemplarMicro. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 03 2014 19:38 Karpfen wrote: With a 15 pool you have no excuse for losing a hatchery to a 10 pool. I think if you do a very economical one you still have to give up the hatch. And of course if the boys are coming. | ||
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