EPTOn August 06 2011 11:50 Newbistic wrote:
Can a high school biology student treat patients effectively?
Can a high school biology student treat patients effectively?
Can a high school student help an undergraduated student to do his homework ?
Can platinum players coach effectively? - Page 3
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
Can a high school student help an undergraduated student to do his homework ? | ||
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Homework
United States283 Posts
On August 06 2011 13:41 Diks wrote: Can a high school student help an undergraduated student to do his homework ? Hey... I'm not an object, you know. | ||
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
omg lol | ||
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Auross
Brazil104 Posts
On August 06 2011 11:50 Newbistic wrote: Can a high school biology student treat patients effectively? Can a undergrad biology student teach help a high school student with his homework?? This thread is very interesting, and the experiment is planned well. I look foward to the conclusions. Edit: How creepy, Diks posted almost the exactly same thing as me! | ||
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HellGreen
Denmark1146 Posts
On August 06 2011 11:50 Newbistic wrote: Can a high school biology student treat patients effectively? Cuts and scrapes yes. Surgery no. On August 06 2011 13:41 Yergidy wrote: Platinum people are platinum for a reason, they could be giving wrong information to their pupils, which will be worse for him in the long run. They may be able to give general information, but there is always a chance that what they were teaching isn't the best way or even the right way. Coaches should be high level enough to teach RIGHT information. Assuming they teach the basics that took themselves to Platinum, it is a progression. Yes, they *could* teach them bad habits that may or may not limit them later, but they would still progress. Then the Master coach can help break those habits. | ||
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kidd
United States2848 Posts
If a platinum player studies the game, thinks about it all the time, analyzes, etc etc. There's no reason he can't be a great coach, even for people above his skill level. Example: said platinum player studies game and watches gsl/reads teamliquid (instead of playing) so he knows of the 3 stalker rush to stop 4gates and there's a masters protoss who doesn't watch gsl or read some kind of forum like tl and has problems stopping 4gates, the platinum player can help him and tell him about the build. If it's just some random lazy platinum player who doesn't try to get better and just sits in platinum doing cheesy strategies for wins then of course they wouldn't be a good coach for anyone. With that said, the former would probably spend his time playing after studying then get promoted, but it's just an example of potential. | ||
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NoobSkills
United States1597 Posts
On August 06 2011 11:23 tossuaway wrote: Have been seeing this a bit lately and thought I could shed some light on it. I don't have proof that they can or can't yet. In short, the argument for each side seems to be..... Pro- Platinum players have established basic fundamental understandings of the game and can spot basic mistakes while watching replays. (and often more complex mistakes that are specific to their race) The pros they have added, will by far overcompensate for the few flaws they have incepted. (fun tacky ass word I know, but I know you can hear that silly inception bass hum in your head now) Con- Platinum players are in platinum because they don't have a near flawless game sense and build orders that come from hundreds and hundreds of hours of play. Their play has flaws and they will pass these flaws down. The flaws they pass down will hurt more than the pros that they have instilled. So these both seem like pretty darn reasonable arguments, there are more for each side I'm sure, and perhaps even better ones. However, proof will ring true at the end, and who better to judge than you TL (love you guys, all a u). This is what we need. I am at the very beginning of platinum, I lost my placement match to a slightly delayed 4 gate, but was still promoted to Platinum. My win rate before was 50/50 with top 8 gold players. I will teach three Protoss players who are in SIlver looking to place into gold. I will meet with them 4 times per week for 2 hours each. In three weeks all three of my "students" who I will refer to as my friends, will either be placed into Gold, or have a 1v1 win ration of 80% or higher. I will only accept silver player with a near 50/50 win ration. I will check personally (because my secretary is busy) . Experiments like this work better with multiple test groups. 1 is nice but proves little. I may just be really good at coaching. I may have a slow internet connection that ruins perfect ff placement and hurts my split. So I also want to add 1 Platinum Zerg coach (who will teach 3 50/50 winning silver Zerg players) and 1 Terran Platinum coach who will do the same. All three of our goals will be the same and we will post videos of the players before and after. Not only of our students but of our own games. This way better players will be able to identify flaws that we have passed down. The goal of a Platinum coach is to teach his gold or below student the basic understandings so that when they are coached from a Dia/master player, they have the basic understandings to not make them pull their hair out and cut off their... connection from that student. How you can help? We need: 2 coaches, -Platinum Zerg coach -Platinum Terran coach Each of these "coaches" (we'll be real coaches ofter we prove ourselves through the knowledge of our students) will need to be able to commit 2 hours, 4 times per week, to each of their students. ( Math time mutha Waaaah!!!) 2 hours x 3 students = 6 hours four times per week. Thats 24 hours a week. ( hope you were not planning a 24 marathon this week) So don't commit unless you can, if you fail you ruin it for all Platinum coaches reputation. (on TL at least and TL isn't that big on SC2 right? DOn't fail us bitch, lol) We also need 9 players!!!!!!! But you need to have a near 50/50 win ration in silver, or well, I guess Bronze to Silver is important too. Each Coach is now required to take 1 bronze ( to make silver) and 2 silvers ( to make gold, in three weeks). Happy hunting. May this end the debate over what level it takes to coach well. If you read this far I can do some shout outs for fun, Geiko, you have pretty posts, thanks good sir. Day(9), you know why I'm thanking you because you've already scouted me...bastard. Plexa- Just a nice guy. Sheth- Too nice of a guy. (when I play starcraft $2,000 is never given to the needy) Toliveanddie- a silver player who hosts a fun tournament every fri-sun. He spends so much time to please the less fortunate (of the SC2 skill community) Chill- For beating Combat X, may he smash him again with Day(9) nerd giggling and swearing in the back round. Thanks guys lets do this. Of course a plat could be a teacher, it is more likely that if you are able to teach and completely understand the concepts eventually you will be masters level, but perhaps some just study the game and would rather not practice. I could believe that a person who plays at gold level knows the pro level play enough to teach a pro how to play better. | ||
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Utinni
Canada1196 Posts
On August 06 2011 13:41 Diks wrote: Can a high school student help an undergraduated student to do his homework ? I tend to agree with this more than anything. Of course, he will. | ||
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Pleiades
United States472 Posts
It's good to have a second set of eyes to see what you are doing. That person can probably catch mistakes, question what you're doing in the game, and give advice. Maybe you have less tactical skills but more mechanical skills, or vise versa. Lets say I am a coach, and I have interesting strategies and tactics, but my multitasking is so poor that it is bringing me down. If I coach someone with good mechanical skills like multitasking, I can offer him my strengths as a strategist with his skills and he'll probably become better. IMO combining sets of skills is what makes Koreans better on average than other players around the world. | ||
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Xplitcit
United States419 Posts
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Ackers
Australia31 Posts
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Benga
Korea (South)471 Posts
I say GM might help in NA server or master koreans | ||
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
Why would anyone think it's ok for an average player to be a coach? Honestly, I don't even think most masters are qualified to coach. | ||
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Synwave
United States2803 Posts
Good luck with the experiment I will be curious to see how it goes. Please edit the OP with updates/progress though! I dont think I have the mental fortitude to sift through the comments that are already 90% debate to find out what happened. | ||
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sTsCompleted
United States380 Posts
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Tuk
United Kingdom223 Posts
The difference between platinum and silver is still pretty large and when i was new in sc2 i would of gladly taken advice from a player better than me even if some of the concepts where somewhat bad. The flawed advice thing isnt exactly a reasonable reason for why platinum league players shouldn't coach because its inevitable that the player in question will develop their own personal flaws and bad habits anyway and i would rather have a coaching session and some of that players flaws, if it meant that i wouldnt develop as many of my own flaws while improving in a different way one reason id give for this is that removing someone elses bad concepts from your play is probably easier than removing one you developed yourself. If they player in question is also willing to get said coaching it is likely that they also have a interest in eSports/watch streams/day9 so if anything coaching from someone better than them is only a added bonus to their current learning without any real negatives. Taking it to real life then you would be saying that essentially anyone without full qualifications is unable to hand down real useful information im sure most people were taught things by their parents/friends etc and im sure most of these things were came with their own flaws but that doesn't take away that they have their uses and they weren't useful learning experiences | ||
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UniquE.
Canada143 Posts
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On August 06 2011 13:50 HellGreen wrote: Cuts and scrapes yes. Surgery no. Assuming they teach the basics that took themselves to Platinum, it is a progression. Yes, they *could* teach them bad habits that may or may not limit them later, but they would still progress. Then the Master coach can help break those habits. Holy crap. I feel like everyone in this thread is assuming that if you're receiving coaching, you should be able to hit masters in a week. If you're getting coaching from a plat player, you're obviously not going to suddenly shoot from low bronze to masters. You'll be reminded of some of the basics, constant probe production (yes, some people need to be reminded of it), no supply block (Yes, some people need to be reminded of it), until it DOES start to become second nature. No one's expecting to get a plat coach, then suddenly hit dia from bronze or silver. They're hoping that they'll hit silver. or maybe gold. Or learn how to take their natural. I apologize for singling out your post, but it just seemed like the one that most clearly articulated "Cuts and scrapes? Yes. Surgery? No." No one is claiming that they'll learn surgery, that's not to say that they won't be able to pass the bio midterm they have in a week, where the most complicated thing they had to learn was the fact that there's a kingdom called "animalia." I feel like the undergrad vs. high schooler analogy is the best one that exists out there. Or think of it this way: a guy who enjoys baseball decides to coach a local little league. He's not particularly good at the sport, doesn't have the deepest understanding, but enjoys it, and enjoys working with young people. Are you going to yell at him for not being a retired MLB player? No. You're going to say, 'it's little league. when the kids get to high school, or college, and IF they're still playing, they'll get a better coach. one with more experience (either coaching or playing, at any rate, one with a substantially deeper understanding of the game, who can help them further develop their skills)." It's like going into little league and asking the kid at the plate to hit a sac fly, because you've got a runner on 3rd and only 1 out. Sure, the kid can TRY, but the more important thing to do, would be to just tell him, "just make contact." And that's what they emphasize at those leagues. I didn't mean this post to come off as aggressive, so please don't take it that way, I'm just confused as to why all of a sudden there are a lot of these topics coming up, where everyone shits on plat players (Yes, i am one, but i'm not trying to be a coach. I'm bad. I feel like i don't put in enough time to be good, and goof off in team games) for wanting to help. Nobody's claiming they can be plat, and take a bronze kid to masters. If they did, then they're either smurfing their account down, or they're just ridiculous in understanding, but have a physical disability that prevents them from playing to their potential, or they're lying. | ||
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Tweleve
United States644 Posts
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ChineseWife
United States373 Posts
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