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DuneBug
United States668 Posts
Keep in mind that at diamond level you're constantly thinking about mechanics and timings when really mostly all you need to get to gold is building probes, expanding at good times, and building units. A plat player might know EXACTLY what to do but lacks the mechanics or micro refinement to get to the next level. I think a fair amount of poeple that spectate a lot of pro-games, stream-watch, day9 fall into this category, because they're constantly getting good advice on a variety of situations | ||
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ETisME
12332 Posts
I am only in plat because I can't do what I know I need to do correctly. For example, under 2 rax bunker pressure, I always pump way too much lings after the pressure is over | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
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Xenocryst
United States521 Posts
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Yew
United States940 Posts
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mrgoochio
United States557 Posts
Obviously a coach needs good game sense and that TYPICALLY comes from hundreds of actual game hours, but not always. | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
On August 06 2011 11:50 tossuaway wrote: Sorry guys, guess it was a dumb idea, when a mod see's this feel free to close it. Thanks guys. It's not a dumb idea at all, you don't have to be a master at something to coach it. Just stick to what you know and admit when you don't have the right answer or only a partial answer. Coaching is about helping people improve, not being some demigod who can impart divine knowledge. | ||
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Juddas
768 Posts
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Darclite
United States1021 Posts
- I felt safe having 2k minerals banked - My only pressure was with warp prism dts - My only attacks were with 3/3/3 200 food armies - I never got off 2 bases until maybe 30 minutes in - I thought you could stack chrono boost - I didn't know warp gates had lower cooldowns than gateway build times - I never built sentries or colossi, favored air armies or blink stalker armies If the plat me met the bronze me, I think he would have helped a ton. No, a plat player won't teach you enough to make you a grandmaster, but can certainly teach you basics of the game. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
Can platinum players coach effectively? Probably not. | ||
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
Platinum Coaching represents the theory of comparative advantages and their contributions to specialization. A analogy which is famously simple is: In a town there is a lawyer. He is the best lawyer and the best secretary in the town. However, if he hires a secretary he will get more work done than if he does both. He holds the absolute advantage in both lawyering and secretarying. However, when you apply comparative advantage, it is obvious he would get more done with a less competent secretary than if he would do 4 hours of law, 4 hours of secretarial work. Applying it to the Platinum/Masters example, the Masters has the absolute advantage in coaching over the platinum players, be the coach-ee be bronze or diamond. However, the platinum player would have the relative advantage. The Masters player has all this game knowledge about timings, builds, counters, while the bronze student only wants to learn how to macro properly and use hotkeys. Would it really be the most efficient use of time if the masters player taught the bronze student? The masters players time is best spent catering to higher level players and the platinum would be competent in teaching bronze players how to tell stim from combat shield. | ||
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thepeonwhocould
Australia334 Posts
On August 06 2011 12:01 TortoiseCa wrote: I think that your mindset is kind of silly and a reason that a lot of players are in master league that probably don't deserve to be there. I've got two accounts - one master league and the other diamond - and on my diamond (main account) I've got tons of games played - and my MMR is probably very well tuned to my abilities. Yet my master account - I'm constantly outplaying other master league players. Like there's a tier of master league players that are worse than diamond players. I don't know where I belong, but my main account gives me competitive games vs low master/high diamond players. Anyway, I guess my point is that learning a solid build in every matchup is a farce and what a lot of coaches do to superficially promote their 'students'. If you learn a solid build order then yes you will probably win a fair amount of games vs better opponents simply because of your build order/timing when you attack. But you don't understand the fundamentals of the game like a master league player should. A master league player should understand different unit compositions, counters, etc. And just have a general game sense instead of just a-moving at 7 minutes because that's when his teacher taught him to . Firstly, the determination of who is in master leagues is mathematically defined. With the exception of cheating players, everyone who is in master's league deserves to be in masters league, even if they are cheesing every game. Now I want to deal with your criticism of the "one build per matchup" method. You say that a person who uses one build per matchup will not learn about the game because they just a-move at 7 minutes. I never said that your one build has to be a 7 minute timing attack. Your ZvP build could be focused around getting to 4 bases and teching to broodlords - that is to say, your build is intended to win the game at the 20 minute mark! In fact, your 1 build should be focused on getting you into the late game - that way, you get more experience in the late game and will crush players whenever you get to the late game. Of course, for some matchups timing attacks are almost a necessity (TvZ and TvP on some maps) - even GSL players understand this. Now your second criticism of the one build method is that you won't learn about unit counters. Well, your build/plan should account for the opponents composition and be contingent on what units they are getting. For example my TvP build has a different response for a fast HT player compared to a fast colossus player. The point is, you should be practicing the same builds, the same reactions, the same responses over and over again, it is by far the quickest way to improve. When you get to master's league, that's the point where you can worry about branching out, adjusting to the metagame, having a range of builds so that you are unpredictable, being creative. Until that point you should be focusing on one build and macro macro macro. | ||
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arbitrageur
Australia1202 Posts
On August 06 2011 11:29 paradox_ wrote: hmm if platinum = TA masters = Prof so that means diamond = unemployed masters grad before giving up and coming back to school edit: interesting experiment, looking forward to seeing the results Platinum players will teach wrong information almost certainly. TAs won't, they'll just claim ignorance on the topic. | ||
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Geniuszerg
Canada454 Posts
any players from bronze to even low masters should not coach, they don't understand the game, or have really bad mechanics and that's why they are in low leagues. its only at high master or grandmaster do players actually have an understanding of the game. even now i see a lot of high master/GM play the game improperly, but they still win i've seen many players make ling/roach when the protoss comes with a bunch of air units as a response, when the proper thing to do is to get hydra tech, and drone harder since a protoss wont be able to amount a strong push if he's invested so much into air tech, that you can lighten up on ground to ground units-although this is a more simpler and well known answer, there are more detailed intricacies that players don't realize or learn until they are at higher levels coaching from players will help some aspects, but at the same time cause hinderance, just because something works well, doesn't mean it's correct, because honestly you can more or less do anything and still win in the lower leagues | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
On August 06 2011 13:03 Geniuszerg wrote: in short no any players from bronze to even low masters should not coach, they don't understand the game, or have really bad mechanics and that's why they are in low leagues. its only at high master or grandmaster do players actually have an understanding of the game. even now i see a lot of high master/GM play the game improperly, but they still win i've seen many players make ling/roach when the protoss comes with a bunch of air units as a response, when the proper thing to do is to get hydra tech, and drone harder since a protoss wont be able to amount a strong push if he's invested so much into air tech, that you can lighten up on ground to ground units-although this is a more simpler and well known answer, there are more detailed intricacies that players don't realize or learn until they are at higher levels coaching from players will help some aspects, but at the same time cause hinderance, just because something works well, doesn't mean it's correct, because honestly you can more or less do anything and still win in the lower leagues Mechanics has nothing to do with coaching, though. I'm a part-time debate coach and if I had to debate right now my "mechanics" wouldn't be where they need to be to debate at a high level. It just doesn't matter. | ||
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wattabeast
United States957 Posts
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zala2023
United States228 Posts
On August 06 2011 11:50 Newbistic wrote: Can a high school biology student treat patients effectively? Considering the average knowledge of the general american population, the student probably know more about the human body than the patients themselves lol But yeah, i think plat ppl can coach i guess, However, i don't see the point of coaching for lower league players. Do you need someone to remind you to make probes and pylons every 20 seconds? Come on bro, play enough games and basic mechanics will take over. Of course you may improve better with someone reminding you everything to do, but unless you are rich, i dont see the point. Hell, if the coach is in plat, maybe the coach wont even remind the player to constantly make probes past early game. | ||
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wgcs
United States59 Posts
xploit.347 rank 4 silver on NA Server | ||
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Homework
United States283 Posts
(not sure how well I can devote time, but hey. whatever.) | ||
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Yergidy
United States2107 Posts
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