EPTCan platinum players coach effectively? - Page 11
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sethr0
Canada20 Posts
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URfavHO
United States514 Posts
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sethr0
Canada20 Posts
On August 19 2011 02:16 tryclops wrote: I don't see why this is an issue. Jason Garret was a silver level quarterback in the NFL; now, he's the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys lol great referance | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
On August 19 2011 02:16 tryclops wrote: I don't see why this is an issue. Jason Garret was a silver level quarterback in the NFL; now, he's the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys Again. 'Real' sports analogies don't apply. There is no huge athletic ability requirement in SC2. | ||
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stormLP
Canada19 Posts
Doing and knowing are entirely different subjects and should be treated differently. | ||
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imPermanenCe
Netherlands595 Posts
Generally a platinum guy knows more than silver. So he's able to help with tiny things like basic mechanics and build orders. Any lowbie needs to learn that anyway before going into the specifics of the game. So I think a platinum guy teaching silvers seems pretty fair. The getting paid part I read somewhere posted earlier on is bullshit :D ofcourse you shouldn't pay a platinum. | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
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ViperVwV
United States15 Posts
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IrishBear
United States9 Posts
On August 19 2011 00:44 Hawk wrote: All that stuff about how there's coaches in traditional sports who were not elite in their craft as players but turned out to be coaches is bunk. Almost every single coach in any of the major sports played in the highest professional league at some point (NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB) or at least made to the highest minor league or college level (AHL, AAA for baseball, NCAA for football and basketball are comparables to minor leagues with professional atmosphere) This is not entirely true, at least for the NFL. - Bill Belichick (HoF coach, probably one of the top Coaches in the NFL, of all time) played at a Division III school in college and never touched a ball in the NFL - Mike Tomlin, current coach of the Steelers played for William and Mary (College) never touched a ball in the NFL - Mike Shanahan another great coach and probably a HOFer in that aspect attended and played at Eastern Illinois University, not a top tier college for football - Vince Lombardi, arguably the most decorated and greated NFL coach of all time, played at Fordham University, another non-top tier school for football, he could not even get on a semi-pro football team after he graduated. - Whats funny is, most High Level Players never make great coaches, i.e Mike Singletary, Jake Del Rio, Gary Kubiak. Only 5 current NFL coaches have played in the NFL While yes there are many coaches that were former players, its not a rule of thumb. As I pointed out some of the best coaches in the game never touched a ball in the pros and didn't play for a high level school. | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On August 19 2011 01:01 TheLOLas wrote: dude i am a high platinum player myself. I know exactly how to be the best in the world. I just cant do that. for a number of reasons. Apm is to low, i get flustered while playing, i forget things, i dont know the perfect reactions to things etc. Platinum players should not coach and if they do it should be for like 5 buck and hour. Hahaha. You know "exactly" eh? Yet you "dont know the perfect reactions to things"? Sounds like you know and don't know a lot! Seriously, though, this thread is just filled with ridiculous assumptions/fallacies like blanket-stereotyping players based on their league, equating playing-ability with teaching-ability and judging improvement based on win/loss ratio and ladder rank. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On August 19 2011 02:23 oxxo wrote: Again. 'Real' sports analogies don't apply. There is no huge athletic ability requirement in SC2. this. also the analogy itself is off. NFL is the highest league in all of football. So this is more comparable to Grandmaster league. So really, a more accurate analogy would be "Jason Garret was one of the bottom 50 GM quarterbacks." Of course someone who played in the highest possible league would make a great coach, regardless of sport. A silver level quarterback is someone who played 2nd string on their high school football team LOL. | ||
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NoRacial
Canada18 Posts
I think it's all about the type of person and how good they can coach, for example I have a friend who is in platinum like me, he never ladders, but his knowledge of the game from watching streams/tournaments and following the pro gaming scene proves that he understands the game at a level good enough to coach players that are in gold/silver. I definitely think that a platinum can coach, because watching Destiny get paid $50 by some kid who can't even macro at a silver level is stupid in my opinion. Everyone starts at some level, having a Grandmaster teach a Silver can be accomplished by a platinum anyway so why not? You won't be teaching the student on how to do multi-drops like Puma at their level, you will be teaching them on how to refine their build order and manage their economy. | ||
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Far.771
United States51 Posts
On August 19 2011 01:51 Logros wrote: That's not to say that someone in Platinum league can't help out people in bronze-silver, but I wouldn't call that coaching. well now you're getting into a personalized definition of what you see coaching as. by definition it would indeed be coaching. | ||
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chadissilent
Canada1187 Posts
On August 19 2011 01:49 Hawk wrote: I'm talking about coaching as a whole. Most people offering it are doing it for money, or doing it for free with the intention of eventually getting money from it eventually in some way. this individual thread promoting his services is nothing new, just one of several hundred people trying to do the same thing with the same end goal. And just because it's free doesn't change the fact that a plat player really is not someone who should be used as a source for how to play well in starcraft I offer to coach because it helps me improve my game. I see things from a different perspective and help myself by helping others. True definition of win-win. | ||
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Xaerkar
United States230 Posts
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Naughty
United States114 Posts
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
As far as the validity of a Plat coaching a Silver goes, more power to ya. If there is demand, you will have students. End of story. Does that mean you're the best those students could possibly get? ... Obviously not. That is not how marketing, advertising, and business works, at all. If you have something people want, and they know they can get it from you, a percentage of them will. End of story. So, if you're willing to spend the tremendous amount of time it will take to do this experiment, do it. | ||
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WigginOut
United States8 Posts
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On August 19 2011 06:15 WigginOut wrote: As many of the '[H] How do I get out of bronze/silver league' threads out there say, the best way to improve is learning to constantly macro. 'probes and pylons'. A platinum player can show a silver player how to do that, so they should improve. The platinum player may not even have perfect macro themselves (i.e. get distracted and miss probes or pylons during their own games), but they will have the capacity as a coach to keep the silver player focused on that. Once they get their fundamental macro down, it would be beneficial for the player to move on to a higher ranked "coach". Whether you call giving someone macro tips "coaching" or not is just a trivial dispute of deffinition. Either way, I think this experiment will prove successful as long as the trainees are willing to apply the advice. Which is everyone's point. You only need to spend a few minutes watching a bronze-silver league player's game to tell them they need to work on their macro. Give a few specifics, and then everything else is up to the player to apply himself via practice. Lower league players don't need coaching unless they've played/practiced hundreds; thousands of games, and are stuck at a wall. At which point, they'll probably need outside help to traverse it. I think it's pretty rare for someone to hit a wall at such a low level if they play consistently. Being platinum doesn't enable you to know how to help them with their problem. If he knows whats holding the silver league player back, he should also know whats holding him back, and a lack play time is a terrible excuse. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
sports coaches, i'm sure they can't hang with the top pros even if they're physically in prime. coaches are there not for their playing ability but coaching ability. the difference in sc2 is that, it really isn't that hard to apply that knowledge one has into the game. so to say pt can coach well, is kind of hard to believe. unless its someone like a professional casters that just analyze and watch games all day instead of playing. in this case, its just the rustiness or lack of mechanics, which can be improved upon practice, its not limited by physical primness like real sports. | ||
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