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Nightfall.589
Canada766 Posts
On August 05 2011 17:50 b_unnies wrote: Um, what G.Skill does is not TSL's responsibility. Are you saying that FD+Trickster deserves to go to jail? A bit extreme perhaps? I was referring to coach Lee. | ||
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docoa
United States14 Posts
I wonder why ST picked up FD and Trickster.. It's pretty obvious that they won't have any good effects on the team. They are not performing well; known not to practice; left 2 teams (oGs, TSL). | ||
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Trollage
Brunei Darussalam2 Posts
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farnham
1378 Posts
On August 06 2011 16:50 docoa wrote: I can see how frustrating and stressful it'd be for Coach Lee and his teammates when the two player that get highest salary dont contribute to team at all. Still, not paying them salary for over a month while keeping them in the team was pretty poor move by Coah Lee. Should've handled much better than that. I wonder why ST picked up FD and Trickster.. It's pretty obvious that they won't have any good effects on the team. They are not performing well; known not to practice; left 2 teams (oGs, TSL). wow even if FD fell down to code A last season he was a regular in code s for very long and Trickster had a top 8 finish last season in code s not contributing to the team much ? | ||
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Mr.Brightside
Australia317 Posts
On August 05 2011 22:08 amrojare wrote: I think I know who you mean and no hes not. Manager Lee used to work for MBCGame Hero BW team. He was seen in a reality show called Hyungjoon Becomes A Progamer coaching the team. As from the show I got the appearance that Lee is a nice guy who cares about his players. But after these recent incidents I must say im shocked and very disappointed with him... Thanks for the reply. I was really worried and would have been very confused if it was him. He seems like a really cool guy though I remember seeing a VOD of him expressing some bitterness towards SC2 and saying how it was failing in Korea and I know that he also runs a PC Cafe so I thought maybe it was him. But of course that wouldn't make sense if he was a coach now since he was so negative about SC2 to begin with, unless it was all just some master plan for him to make some money. Wasn't he a coach at some stage too? | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
This guy is such a piece of shit, seriously. That comment about other teams should pick up the uncontracted players like what EG did is a good one, but they should do it in a more hostile way. It's obvious this team is bad, and this coach has ruined it, hopefully some of the good teams will recognize the talent left on the team and snatch them up without Lee trying to stop them. | ||
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GeorgeyBeats
United Kingdom338 Posts
I totally empathise with FD and tester | ||
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TheAuditor
United States136 Posts
No wonder why the top players are leaving. They refuse to just accept this news and try to slander the Association and players and anyone else who disagrees. Well I know for sure I won't support TSL in any way and I'll be rooting against them in any event. | ||
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masterbreti
Korea (South)2711 Posts
On August 07 2011 00:17 TheAuditor wrote: Scumbag TSL No wonder why the top players are leaving. They refuse to just accept this news and try to slander the Association and players and anyone else who disagrees. Well I know for sure I won't support TSL in any way and I'll be rooting against them in any event. umm. Do you really know the full story. All we are getting is one half of the story from St and sc2con. Which both are biased against TSL from my perspective. I know there is a lot going on that we don't know. A lot which could be some backstory and be a huge misunderstanding. FD and tester want money for ad's TSL have no control over. I don't know about you. But I would not pay that. If FD and tester did not do the work as asked of them. I would not pay them. From what I understand, FD was drinking a lot and partying a lot instead of practicing. This is not how one is supposed to act. He is a professional and goes into GSL looking like hell. I'm sorry but Lee had every right to refuse payment to these guys. Lee may not have done it the right way by lieing. He should have told them flat out that he wasn't going to give them the money because they didn't practice, they went out and partied all the time. And They never auctally did much more than be faces of the team. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On August 06 2011 21:27 Belial88 wrote: This guy is basically a fucking thief. Withholding money, asking the players to 'give to the team in a moment of financial insecurity' when they have plenty of it, wasting money as either a complete incompetent bafoon or thief on food. This guy is just a scumbag. These players are giving up their livelihoods, and Tester/FD rely on SC2 for money, and this guy slanders them, which only serves to hurt them trying to etch a living on SC2. This guy is such a piece of shit, seriously. That comment about other teams should pick up the uncontracted players like what EG did is a good one, but they should do it in a more hostile way. It's obvious this team is bad, and this coach has ruined it, hopefully some of the good teams will recognize the talent left on the team and snatch them up without Lee trying to stop them. So if your employees refuse to work, you still pay them? When their coworkers are working 10 hours a day for much less pay? | ||
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BilltownRunner
United States229 Posts
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ETisME
12631 Posts
On August 07 2011 00:31 iamke55 wrote: So if your employees refuse to work, you still pay them? When their coworkers are working 10 hours a day for much less pay? you can't withhold the wage to force them to work. you either fire them or just talk to them to arrange a deal. And it isn't "refuse" to work, it is working less than others. It is a very different concept, "refuse to work" is just breaking the contract directly whereas "not performing as much" is poor work performance. You also cannot just fire the employees with "poor work performance" without warning letter and consultation in some cases. | ||
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Sein
United States1811 Posts
On August 06 2011 19:19 farnham wrote: wow even if FD fell down to code A last season he was a regular in code s for very long and Trickster had a top 8 finish last season in code s not contributing to the team much ? He's saying that their attitude might cause problems in the ST teamhouse. These pro players living and practicing together are suppose to motive one another, but say a couple of guys sitting next to your computer are gone half the time and often come back drunk. These two guys have admitted that they are lazy since several months ago, but their attitude doesn't seem to have improved at all despite Lee presumably talking to them repeatedly about it. Let's just see if ST's manager can keep them under control. | ||
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masterbreti
Korea (South)2711 Posts
On August 07 2011 00:39 ETisME wrote: you can't withhold the wage to force them to work. you either fire them or just talk to them to arrange a deal. And it isn't "refuse" to work, it is working less than others. It is a very different concept, "refuse to work" is just breaking the contract directly whereas "not performing as much" is poor work performance. You also cannot just fire the employees with "poor work performance" without warning letter and consultation in some cases. Of lets put it this way. When one is underperforming. They get their pay cut. That happens often in the workplace and is what Lee is doing. Lying about it is wrong. But I don't think it was Lee's intention to lie. | ||
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Ziggitz
United States340 Posts
I'm sorry but Lee had every right to refuse payment to these guys. Lee may not have done it the right way by lieing. He should have told them flat out that he wasn't going to give them the money because they didn't practice, they went out and partied all the time. And They never auctally did much more than be faces of the team He had no right. He had a legal obligation to pay them what he agreed to. His other alternatives were to try and renegotiate with them or fire them. He's lucky that the SC2PA and the SC2Con exists or the only other option would have been suing him in court which would have been a lot worse for everyone given the relatively small sums involved. He broke the law big time breaching those contracts as well as using their likenesses without permission or payment and it would certainly not have gone his way. Of lets put it this way. When one is underperforming. They get their pay cut. That happens often in the workplace and is what Lee is doing. Unless he put a clause that allowed him to cut their pay at his own discretion, which no one would be dumb enough to agree to, it's illegal plain and simple. This isn't you Dad cutting your allowance because he thinks you did bad on your homework or didn't mow the lawn properly it's a legal contract. | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
Something is really fishy here. | ||
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masterbreti
Korea (South)2711 Posts
On August 07 2011 02:01 zeru wrote: I have yet to see any confirmation or proof that an actual contract existed. Exactly. afaik they didn't have contracts. Puma didn't have a contract either. citing that everything was trust based. So assuming this was the case (there has been no proff they had contracts) they were being paid based on being players on the team and practing. I would say if they don't practice. They don't get paid. | ||
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Nightfall.589
Canada766 Posts
On August 07 2011 00:31 iamke55 wrote: So if your employees refuse to work, you still pay them? When their coworkers are working 10 hours a day for much less pay? Yes, you do. Either that, or you fire them. As for people who think that no piece of paper = no contract = no salary, it doesn't work that way. A verbal agreement is just as binding. Remember all the good PR the team got over http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=201086? When you announce that you're paying salaries, you tell your players you will be paying salaries, you actually *pay* them salaries, and you throw a hissy fit when your (unsalaried) players are wooed away by another team, that's pretty clear indication that you're an employer, and they are your employees. Also, notice that Coach Lee never claims that he told FD&Tester's that their salaries were lowered to zero. He claims that he retroactively withheld salaries. | ||
Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On August 07 2011 02:07 masterbreti wrote: Exactly. afaik they didn't have contracts. Puma didn't have a contract either. citing that everything was trust based. So assuming this was the case (there has been no proff they had contracts) they were being paid based on being players on the team and practing. I would say if they don't practice. They don't get paid. The difference is, that Puma didn't get paid anything. FD and Tester did get paid, so I think there was a contract, but I don't know for sure. | ||
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