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On August 05 2011 17:50 b_unnies wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 17:19 Excludos wrote: Withholding salaries but still using their images after they have quit is most definately "altering a verbal contract". Um, what G.Skill does is not TSL's responsibility. Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 17:23 Nightfall.589 wrote: Not paying wages after the fact is either unilaterally altering an agreement, or a crime. Fraud, perhaps? Are you saying that FD+Trickster deserves to go to jail? A bit extreme perhaps? I was referring to coach Lee.
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I can see how frustrating and stressful it'd be for Coach Lee and his teammates when the two player that get highest salary dont contribute to team at all. Still, not paying them salary for over a month while keeping them in the team was pretty poor move by Coah Lee. Should've handled much better than that. I wonder why ST picked up FD and Trickster.. It's pretty obvious that they won't have any good effects on the team. They are not performing well; known not to practice; left 2 teams (oGs, TSL).
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Requesting a Coach Lee fanclub.. The scamming mastermind of the sc2 community. hahaha. Would be awesome to see evil mastermind fanart and stuff
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On August 06 2011 16:50 docoa wrote: I can see how frustrating and stressful it'd be for Coach Lee and his teammates when the two player that get highest salary dont contribute to team at all. Still, not paying them salary for over a month while keeping them in the team was pretty poor move by Coah Lee. Should've handled much better than that. I wonder why ST picked up FD and Trickster.. It's pretty obvious that they won't have any good effects on the team. They are not performing well; known not to practice; left 2 teams (oGs, TSL). wow even if FD fell down to code A last season he was a regular in code s for very long and Trickster had a top 8 finish last season in code s
not contributing to the team much ?
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On August 05 2011 22:08 amrojare wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 21:52 Mr.Brightside wrote: Is this manager the same Lee as SuperDanielMan that used to cast the GOM Intel Classics with Tasteless? I think I know who you mean and no hes not. Manager Lee used to work for MBCGame Hero BW team. He was seen in a reality show called Hyungjoon Becomes A Progamer coaching the team. As from the show I got the appearance that Lee is a nice guy who cares about his players. But after these recent incidents I must say im shocked and very disappointed with him...
Thanks for the reply. I was really worried and would have been very confused if it was him. He seems like a really cool guy though I remember seeing a VOD of him expressing some bitterness towards SC2 and saying how it was failing in Korea and I know that he also runs a PC Cafe so I thought maybe it was him. But of course that wouldn't make sense if he was a coach now since he was so negative about SC2 to begin with, unless it was all just some master plan for him to make some money. Wasn't he a coach at some stage too?
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This guy is basically a fucking thief. Withholding money, asking the players to 'give to the team in a moment of financial insecurity' when they have plenty of it, wasting money as either a complete incompetent bafoon or thief on food. This guy is just a scumbag. These players are giving up their livelihoods, and Tester/FD rely on SC2 for money, and this guy slanders them, which only serves to hurt them trying to etch a living on SC2.
This guy is such a piece of shit, seriously. That comment about other teams should pick up the uncontracted players like what EG did is a good one, but they should do it in a more hostile way. It's obvious this team is bad, and this coach has ruined it, hopefully some of the good teams will recognize the talent left on the team and snatch them up without Lee trying to stop them.
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This is crazy! When people are contracted you have to pay them, end of. I totally empathise with FD and tester
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Scumbag TSL
No wonder why the top players are leaving.
They refuse to just accept this news and try to slander the Association and players and anyone else who disagrees.
Well I know for sure I won't support TSL in any way and I'll be rooting against them in any event.
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On August 07 2011 00:17 TheAuditor wrote: Scumbag TSL
No wonder why the top players are leaving.
They refuse to just accept this news and try to slander the Association and players and anyone else who disagrees.
Well I know for sure I won't support TSL in any way and I'll be rooting against them in any event.
umm. Do you really know the full story. All we are getting is one half of the story from St and sc2con. Which both are biased against TSL from my perspective.
I know there is a lot going on that we don't know. A lot which could be some backstory and be a huge misunderstanding.
FD and tester want money for ad's TSL have no control over. I don't know about you. But I would not pay that.
If FD and tester did not do the work as asked of them. I would not pay them.
From what I understand, FD was drinking a lot and partying a lot instead of practicing. This is not how one is supposed to act. He is a professional and goes into GSL looking like hell.
I'm sorry but Lee had every right to refuse payment to these guys. Lee may not have done it the right way by lieing. He should have told them flat out that he wasn't going to give them the money because they didn't practice, they went out and partied all the time. And They never auctally did much more than be faces of the team.
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On August 06 2011 21:27 Belial88 wrote: This guy is basically a fucking thief. Withholding money, asking the players to 'give to the team in a moment of financial insecurity' when they have plenty of it, wasting money as either a complete incompetent bafoon or thief on food. This guy is just a scumbag. These players are giving up their livelihoods, and Tester/FD rely on SC2 for money, and this guy slanders them, which only serves to hurt them trying to etch a living on SC2.
This guy is such a piece of shit, seriously. That comment about other teams should pick up the uncontracted players like what EG did is a good one, but they should do it in a more hostile way. It's obvious this team is bad, and this coach has ruined it, hopefully some of the good teams will recognize the talent left on the team and snatch them up without Lee trying to stop them. So if your employees refuse to work, you still pay them? When their coworkers are working 10 hours a day for much less pay?
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Yeah but honestly it is Lee's fault for joining TSL with Tester and Fruitdealer. They left oGs becasue they didn't want to practice and now Lee is surprised they don't want to practice.
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On August 07 2011 00:31 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 21:27 Belial88 wrote: This guy is basically a fucking thief. Withholding money, asking the players to 'give to the team in a moment of financial insecurity' when they have plenty of it, wasting money as either a complete incompetent bafoon or thief on food. This guy is just a scumbag. These players are giving up their livelihoods, and Tester/FD rely on SC2 for money, and this guy slanders them, which only serves to hurt them trying to etch a living on SC2.
This guy is such a piece of shit, seriously. That comment about other teams should pick up the uncontracted players like what EG did is a good one, but they should do it in a more hostile way. It's obvious this team is bad, and this coach has ruined it, hopefully some of the good teams will recognize the talent left on the team and snatch them up without Lee trying to stop them. So if your employees refuse to work, you still pay them? When their coworkers are working 10 hours a day for much less pay? you can't withhold the wage to force them to work. you either fire them or just talk to them to arrange a deal.
And it isn't "refuse" to work, it is working less than others. It is a very different concept, "refuse to work" is just breaking the contract directly whereas "not performing as much" is poor work performance.
You also cannot just fire the employees with "poor work performance" without warning letter and consultation in some cases.
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On August 06 2011 19:19 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 16:50 docoa wrote: I can see how frustrating and stressful it'd be for Coach Lee and his teammates when the two player that get highest salary dont contribute to team at all. Still, not paying them salary for over a month while keeping them in the team was pretty poor move by Coah Lee. Should've handled much better than that. I wonder why ST picked up FD and Trickster.. It's pretty obvious that they won't have any good effects on the team. They are not performing well; known not to practice; left 2 teams (oGs, TSL). wow even if FD fell down to code A last season he was a regular in code s for very long and Trickster had a top 8 finish last season in code s not contributing to the team much ?
He's saying that their attitude might cause problems in the ST teamhouse. These pro players living and practicing together are suppose to motive one another, but say a couple of guys sitting next to your computer are gone half the time and often come back drunk. These two guys have admitted that they are lazy since several months ago, but their attitude doesn't seem to have improved at all despite Lee presumably talking to them repeatedly about it. Let's just see if ST's manager can keep them under control.
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On August 07 2011 00:39 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 00:31 iamke55 wrote:On August 06 2011 21:27 Belial88 wrote: This guy is basically a fucking thief. Withholding money, asking the players to 'give to the team in a moment of financial insecurity' when they have plenty of it, wasting money as either a complete incompetent bafoon or thief on food. This guy is just a scumbag. These players are giving up their livelihoods, and Tester/FD rely on SC2 for money, and this guy slanders them, which only serves to hurt them trying to etch a living on SC2.
This guy is such a piece of shit, seriously. That comment about other teams should pick up the uncontracted players like what EG did is a good one, but they should do it in a more hostile way. It's obvious this team is bad, and this coach has ruined it, hopefully some of the good teams will recognize the talent left on the team and snatch them up without Lee trying to stop them. So if your employees refuse to work, you still pay them? When their coworkers are working 10 hours a day for much less pay? you can't withhold the wage to force them to work. you either fire them or just talk to them to arrange a deal. And it isn't "refuse" to work, it is working less than others. It is a very different concept, "refuse to work" is just breaking the contract directly whereas "not performing as much" is poor work performance. You also cannot just fire the employees with "poor work performance" without warning letter and consultation in some cases.
Of lets put it this way. When one is underperforming. They get their pay cut. That happens often in the workplace and is what Lee is doing.
Lying about it is wrong. But I don't think it was Lee's intention to lie.
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I'm sorry but Lee had every right to refuse payment to these guys. Lee may not have done it the right way by lieing. He should have told them flat out that he wasn't going to give them the money because they didn't practice, they went out and partied all the time. And They never auctally did much more than be faces of the team
He had no right. He had a legal obligation to pay them what he agreed to. His other alternatives were to try and renegotiate with them or fire them. He's lucky that the SC2PA and the SC2Con exists or the only other option would have been suing him in court which would have been a lot worse for everyone given the relatively small sums involved. He broke the law big time breaching those contracts as well as using their likenesses without permission or payment and it would certainly not have gone his way.
Of lets put it this way. When one is underperforming. They get their pay cut. That happens often in the workplace and is what Lee is doing.
Unless he put a clause that allowed him to cut their pay at his own discretion, which no one would be dumb enough to agree to, it's illegal plain and simple. This isn't you Dad cutting your allowance because he thinks you did bad on your homework or didn't mow the lawn properly it's a legal contract.
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I'm just wondering where the money went that he didn't pay to FD and Tester. Also why are their food expensive much higher than other teams?
Something is really fishy here.
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On August 07 2011 02:01 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 01:57 Ziggitz wrote:I'm sorry but Lee had every right to refuse payment to these guys. Lee may not have done it the right way by lieing. He should have told them flat out that he wasn't going to give them the money because they didn't practice, they went out and partied all the time. And They never auctally did much more than be faces of the team He had no right. He had a legal obligation to pay them what he agreed to. His other alternatives were to try and renegotiate with them or fire them. He's lucky that the SC2PA and the SC2Con exists or the only other option would have been suing him in court which would have been a lot worse for everyone given the relatively small sums involved. He broke the law big time breaching those contracts as well as using their likenesses without permission or payment and it would certainly not have gone his way. Of lets put it this way. When one is underperforming. They get their pay cut. That happens often in the workplace and is what Lee is doing. Unless he put a clause that allowed him to cut their pay at his own discretion, which no one would be dumb enough to agree to, it's illegal plain and simple. This isn't you Dad cutting your allowance because he thinks you did bad on your homework or didn't mow the lawn properly it's a legal contract. I have yet to see any confirmation or proof that an actual contract existed.
Exactly. afaik they didn't have contracts.
Puma didn't have a contract either. citing that everything was trust based. So assuming this was the case (there has been no proff they had contracts) they were being paid based on being players on the team and practing. I would say if they don't practice. They don't get paid.
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On August 07 2011 00:31 iamke55 wrote: So if your employees refuse to work, you still pay them? When their coworkers are working 10 hours a day for much less pay?
Yes, you do. Either that, or you fire them.
As for people who think that no piece of paper = no contract = no salary, it doesn't work that way. A verbal agreement is just as binding.
Remember all the good PR the team got over http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=201086?
When you announce that you're paying salaries, you tell your players you will be paying salaries, you actually *pay* them salaries, and you throw a hissy fit when your (unsalaried) players are wooed away by another team, that's pretty clear indication that you're an employer, and they are your employees. Also, notice that Coach Lee never claims that he told FD&Tester's that their salaries were lowered to zero. He claims that he retroactively withheld salaries.
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On August 07 2011 02:07 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 02:01 zeru wrote:On August 07 2011 01:57 Ziggitz wrote:I'm sorry but Lee had every right to refuse payment to these guys. Lee may not have done it the right way by lieing. He should have told them flat out that he wasn't going to give them the money because they didn't practice, they went out and partied all the time. And They never auctally did much more than be faces of the team He had no right. He had a legal obligation to pay them what he agreed to. His other alternatives were to try and renegotiate with them or fire them. He's lucky that the SC2PA and the SC2Con exists or the only other option would have been suing him in court which would have been a lot worse for everyone given the relatively small sums involved. He broke the law big time breaching those contracts as well as using their likenesses without permission or payment and it would certainly not have gone his way. Of lets put it this way. When one is underperforming. They get their pay cut. That happens often in the workplace and is what Lee is doing. Unless he put a clause that allowed him to cut their pay at his own discretion, which no one would be dumb enough to agree to, it's illegal plain and simple. This isn't you Dad cutting your allowance because he thinks you did bad on your homework or didn't mow the lawn properly it's a legal contract. I have yet to see any confirmation or proof that an actual contract existed. Exactly. afaik they didn't have contracts. Puma didn't have a contract either. citing that everything was trust based. So assuming this was the case (there has been no proff they had contracts) they were being paid based on being players on the team and practing. I would say if they don't practice. They don't get paid. The difference is, that Puma didn't get paid anything. FD and Tester did get paid, so I think there was a contract, but I don't know for sure.
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