EPTOn August 06 2011 03:13 vitruvia wrote:
they are so much more lenient than keSPA lmao
they are so much more lenient than keSPA lmao
Can u imagine what kespa wouldv'e done>?
'TSL expelled from SC2 Conference' - Page 53
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
Can u imagine what kespa wouldv'e done>? | ||
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mprs
Canada2933 Posts
On August 05 2011 21:44 rnCsaFe wrote: Mate, i think you need to think before you start posting 'clever' one liners. Your suggestion on Chess actually supports my agenda. I'm saying that if 'everyone' is capable of executing a strategy with relative ease - there exists only a thin distinction between 'pro-gamers' and 'hardcores', and 'casuals'. There are heaps of arguments for this, but you get the idea. The competition in SC2 is very huge, very hard to be successful and can be inconsistent. It will all come down to balance and maps. (Why is Flash and Jaedong always at the top in sc1? Is it because their strategy are good? Or is it their mechanics?) Blizzard is lowering these 'mechanics' required by improving the AI to ease the bar levels in SC2. There is a reason why some current pro-gamers like MarineKing, who were unsuccessful in SC1, but are now successful in SC2. Correlation of things? Just my view. So to end this, Coaches like Lee believe that they can exploit players and limit their potential. In reality, they don't provide anymore than emotional/financial support. (I personally don't believe that strategies exclusively come from Coaches in the context of SC2). We don't know if MKP is actually good in SC2, or if everyone is still bad. Just 8 months ago, we were raving about how SC2 is easy because the two ex-BW progamers named Tester and Cool were dominating. July and Nada are one of the best BW players to switch over, and they have yet to win a single tournament. Yet we have some random BW "scrubs" like Nestea, MC, MKP, and Bomber raping everyone. To me, this isn't a correlation between playing BW well and your success in SC2. What I see is that the people who have the most familiarity with BW (i.e. BW pros) do the best in SC2 early on, since the games are very similar. And as more time passes, your BW prowess is not as important as your actual time spent practicing SC2. Remember what happened when Nada played his show match with TLO? It was actually close. Nada, Boxer, and July all looked scary when they switched over. If they would have switched over now, they would look like gold players (and I have some evidence to back it up) FlasH and Jaedong switching over to SC2 half a year ago would absolutely mop the floor with people. If they switch over now or in a year, they will absolutely be irrelevant. They aren't good at BW because their name is FlasH or Jaedong, but because of their practice regimen. If they maintain that practice regimen, then I have no doubt they will eventually be at the top of the game eventually. But to think that their BW prowess will all of the suddent teach them how to properly defend blue-flame hellions is very unlikely. They might have creative solutions, but it will take practice and time. We also shouldn't seperate mechanics from strategy. Every player has a certain amount of budget in terms of what his brain power can allow him to do. This is similar to everyone across the world believe it or not. If your strategy is to mech and turtle, then there isn't much room to multi-task or harass. So those mechanical skills are not required for that player. Is this a successful way of playing? Not really. People used to spend a lot of their energy just to macro, so they lack in harass, army positioning, and strategical thinking. But if in BW, the absolute limit was to macro while doing two drops, it means that now the best player can perhaps do 4 drops, or 6 drops at a time. The easier macro of the game relieves you of a lot of actions to use elsewhere. Most people think that when these actions are not needed anymore, nothing will replace them. But as is true in all competitive environments, competitors will find ways to use this free time/energy to their best ability and try to eek out every little advantage they can. Just like in BW. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
On August 06 2011 03:18 Blasterion wrote: Can u imagine what kespa wouldv'e done>? Get them to sign contracts? | ||
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tl666666
2 Posts
On August 06 2011 03:13 vitruvia wrote: they are so much more lenient than keSPA lmao only lenient because they have no power really | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On August 05 2011 21:44 rnCsaFe wrote: Mate, i think you need to think before you start posting 'clever' one liners. Your suggestion on Chess actually supports my agenda. I'm saying that if 'everyone' is capable of executing a strategy with relative ease - there exists only a thin distinction between 'pro-gamers' and 'hardcores', and 'casuals'. There are heaps of arguments for this, but you get the idea. The competition in SC2 is very huge, very hard to be successful and can be inconsistent. It will all come down to balance and maps. (Why is Flash and Jaedong always at the top in sc1? Is it because their strategy are good? Or is it their mechanics?) Blizzard is lowering these 'mechanics' required by improving the AI to ease the bar levels in SC2. There is a reason why some current pro-gamers like MarineKing, who were unsuccessful in SC1, but are now successful in SC2. Correlation of things? Just my view. So to end this, Coaches like Lee believe that they can exploit players and limit their potential. In reality, they don't provide anymore than emotional/financial support. (I personally don't believe that strategies exclusively come from Coaches in the context of SC2). What the hell does this rant have to do with what happened to TSL and SC2con? Why bring the tired old BW vs SC2 mechanics/easy AI shit into a thread that has NOTHING to do with that. | ||
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Bababooey
19 Posts
On August 05 2011 20:40 karpo wrote: Both quoted posts make so many assumption my head is hurting from reading them. Care to actually debate this with me or are you just going to stick with the simple one-liner blanket statements? | ||
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weegee101
United States9 Posts
On August 05 2011 20:05 Bababooey wrote: Glad the other managers saw through the smoke as well, and expelled TSL from SC2con. I just hope the players remaining on TSL are going to be alright. Being as those players most likely don't have contracts, I would expect other teams to swoop in and pick them up. It would be advisable for them from a professional standpoint for the players to switch teams now. | ||
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RyLai
United States477 Posts
To be honest, I feel like Lee has some issues. But I'm not completely sure. T and FD could be using Lee's recent negative publicity to their advantage. I mean, why didn't any of this information come out sooner? They left WAY before people even heard of EG talking to PuMa. Maybe it just took a while for the discussion to begin? I somehow doubt that. But this is a serious issue. Given all the information we've been told, Lee should probably be removed from his managerial position at TSL because he doesn't have a positive reputation which can hurt TSL's public image and he doesn't seem to be doing the best job for his team. | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On August 06 2011 07:46 RyLai wrote: The SC2PA seems like more of a worker's union kind of thing. To be honest, I feel like Lee has some issues. But I'm not completely sure. T and FD could be using Lee's recent negative publicity to their advantage. I mean, why didn't any of this information come out sooner? They left WAY before people even heard of EG talking to PuMa. Maybe it just took a while for the discussion to begin? I somehow doubt that. But this is a serious issue. Given all the information we've been told, Lee should probably be removed from his managerial position at TSL because he doesn't have a positive reputation which can hurt TSL's public image and he doesn't seem to be doing the best job for his team. They brought their dispute to the SCPA. No reason to go public. The only reason why its public now is because the SCPA have to make the announcement that TSL has been banned. Naturally people are going to want reasons as to why this went down this way. | ||
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thee telescopes
321 Posts
On August 06 2011 07:50 redFF wrote: It might damage their ability to recruit, if a player has multiple teams interested in them but joining one of the teams would mean they don't have the protection this organisation could provide it could make a difference.Does this matter? I mean they can still compete in tournies and everything. To me it just feels like "You are expelled from our pointless, powerless club and can no longer come to meetings!!!!" | ||
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FidoDido
United States1292 Posts
On August 04 2011 20:37 Domination wrote: Ah yes, the old YOU CANT FIRE ME I QUIT gambit except in reverse. ^ This guy gets it. It's pretty obvious, you can't trust people who hide behind their masks. You guys think all these players are leaving TSL for bad reasons? it's pretty obvious something huge was going on behind the scenes. | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
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CptFlowers
United States30 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On August 06 2011 07:46 RyLai wrote: The SC2PA seems like more of a worker's union kind of thing. To be honest, I feel like Lee has some issues. But I'm not completely sure. T and FD could be using Lee's recent negative publicity to their advantage. I mean, why didn't any of this information come out sooner? They left WAY before people even heard of EG talking to PuMa. Maybe it just took a while for the discussion to begin? I somehow doubt that. But this is a serious issue. Given all the information we've been told, Lee should probably be removed from his managerial position at TSL because he doesn't have a positive reputation which can hurt TSL's public image and he doesn't seem to be doing the best job for his team. I don't know - In the article it did say a lot of money went missing (and lying about sponsors and sponsors taking their old equipment back but never actually obtaining it). Though $5000 cost of food for 10 players is kind of acceptable if they were eating out and/or buying expensive food (though it's the coach/manager's responsibility to keep prices low if they were in financial trouble). There can be lots of quality, cheap, nutritious low price food but at the same time there can be a lot more expensive of the same (For example a vegan frozen meal costs like $5 as opposed to $1 of non-vegan version >.>). (If anyone is curious - Whole wheat pasta with 7 servings of 200 calories only costs $1-2. That's about enough pasta to feed someone (recommended amount is 1.5k calories, pasta pack has 1400 calories total). (Whole wheat pasta provides lots of protein, fiber, some iron, etc.). Anyway I don't know what to think about it but it really does seem Lee is the bad guy in this situation. It's also true that he could have confronted FD and Tester about these issues in the first place (as they both said in the updated OP). Well it's good there's a SC2 version of KeSPA (until KeSPA decides to take over in the next year or so of course >.>). | ||
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Xxavi
United States1248 Posts
On August 05 2011 14:26 Seide wrote: ok man, wanting a flexible training schedule != being lazy. You won't even become a entry level progamer by being lazy. You can still have a flexible training schedule and put in a lot of work. FD & Tester are older progamers, some of the first to switch from SC1 from SC2, its understandable for them wanting to have game/live balance at this point. You don't see Nada living in oGs house or adhering the training schedules that other members follow, but he still puts in his time and practice on his own. It's FD's and Tester's problem if they don't succeed. They created a team, remember? They did it so that they could be lazy. It was agreed upon, why change it midway through? Even if you do want to change it, you can say it differently, instead of taking away their salaries and lying about it. | ||
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Temporarykid
Canada362 Posts
On August 04 2011 20:31 deerpark87 wrote: E-sport Drama!!! Haha, this. So epic, especially since he's a Korean manager I'm curious to see which he decides to do. | ||
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Mortal
2943 Posts
On August 06 2011 10:08 Belial88 wrote: ^ Did it ever set sail? i'd say it was always more of a shaky dingy. now it's leo dicaprio on a door. Kind of a bummer :{ | ||
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IslandLife
21 Posts
On August 05 2011 20:40 karpo wrote: Both quoted posts make so many assumption my head is hurting from reading them. Anyone have experience with older people/people in power abusing the Confucian system for personal gain? Has anyone seen the way Koreans honor their elders? Has anyone seen a select few of those elders use that power in the wrong? Has anyone seen the resentment on a younger Korean's face when he has to acquiesce even though he knows the older person is full of it? Those posts you are bashing were informed and spot on, unlike your one-liner. | ||
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