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On July 30 2011 07:21 Bandino wrote:Show nested quote +WArped On July 30 2011 07:12 Bandino wrote:
Why does everyone feel entitled to copy people's build orders (which they probably put a lot of work into) and get these replays. Get over it there are going to be no replays. It seems this community has started to overreact for any little change. Sure it makes for interesting drama to read, but overall it just deteriorates the community and people's opinion of said community, I mean just look at how everyone perceives the DOTA community. There is an overreaction because their reason behind it is fucking stupid, it makes no sense at all. Maybe to protect the Korean guys build orders yes, but the DDoS thing seems so unrealistic. Everything can be worked around.. And if they came out and told the truth that they couldn't give out replays because they didn't want people copying build orders i bet you there still would be a bunch of folk on TL who would feel that they are entitled to those build orders. Overall I guess it's just how the internet works. Complain about everything.
I'm not really complaining, I know what I am saying will affect nothing, I am just confused as to why such a simple problem can be worked around without creating a drama. 
They must have known there would be people frustrated by this.
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On July 30 2011 07:21 Bandino wrote:Show nested quote +WArped On July 30 2011 07:12 Bandino wrote:
Why does everyone feel entitled to copy people's build orders (which they probably put a lot of work into) and get these replays. Get over it there are going to be no replays. It seems this community has started to overreact for any little change. Sure it makes for interesting drama to read, but overall it just deteriorates the community and people's opinion of said community, I mean just look at how everyone perceives the DOTA community. There is an overreaction because their reason behind it is fucking stupid, it makes no sense at all. Maybe to protect the Korean guys build orders yes, but the DDoS thing seems so unrealistic. Everything can be worked around.. And if they came out and told the truth that they couldn't give out replays because they didn't want people copying build orders i bet you there still would be a bunch of folk on TL who would feel that they are entitled to those build orders. Overall I guess it's just how the internet works. Complain about everything.
Obviously people would be annoyed at the lack of a service.
There would be people going 'aww so sad but I can see why they did it =(' Much more extreme than that and you would start to get warns, basically. Exaggerating slightly, but the complaints would be more laments than anything directional.
However, this isn't the lack of a service, it's about the lying about the motives on a lack of a service. Like how I wasn't annoyed at EG taking PuMa but WAS annoyed at Alex going after Milkis.
Aggravating factors, to appropriate a term.
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I thought they were still going to release them as a huge pack, just do it after the event is over.
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On July 30 2011 07:21 Bandino wrote:Show nested quote +WArped On July 30 2011 07:12 Bandino wrote:
Why does everyone feel entitled to copy people's build orders (which they probably put a lot of work into) and get these replays. Get over it there are going to be no replays. It seems this community has started to overreact for any little change. Sure it makes for interesting drama to read, but overall it just deteriorates the community and people's opinion of said community, I mean just look at how everyone perceives the DOTA community. There is an overreaction because their reason behind it is fucking stupid, it makes no sense at all. Maybe to protect the Korean guys build orders yes, but the DDoS thing seems so unrealistic. Everything can be worked around.. And if they came out and told the truth that they couldn't give out replays because they didn't want people copying build orders i bet you there still would be a bunch of folk on TL who would feel that they are entitled to those build orders. Overall I guess it's just how the internet works. Complain about everything.
It's not about entitlement, it's about VALUE. I get a lot of value out of watching those replays for builds/entertainment/whatever and I would pay MORE than the price of the HD pass to get just the replays. It just sucks to have no way of getting them as it's one of the best things about MLG for a lot of us.
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What nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I was looking forward to getting my hands on some DRG reps. =(
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At least they're giving them to the casters.
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On July 30 2011 07:27 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 07:24 Shaxe wrote:
I'd be able to swallow this better if they just came out and admit that Korean teams don't like releasing replays and it's part of the deal for the exchange program; but instead lying about the chat spam and misusing the term DDoS and ignoring alternatives such as releasing them after the event just makes me feel almost cheated for purchasing the HQ pass. Better yet, they might have gotten some guy who never touched SC2 before to write that announcement before even attempting to workaround the "DDoS" during Columbus. I gotta say, I'm getting a bad vibe from all this; between Husky & MrBitter, no HQ on both streams and now this happening. Honestly, I could even accept it if they said they were doing it to increase the value of their VODs service. You could argue wether that is fair or not, but it would at least make sense.
which would be one of the only legitimate reasons for doing it in my opinion. If that is the case, then it is a shitty way to go about it, but understandable since they are a business.
Koreans not wanting their builds shown (if that is indeed happening), would mean that no replays could be released at all to casters. because nothing is stopping them from casting games with the production tab open showing the entire build order =/
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If only there was a way to circumvent battlenet so players and casters don't get random messages, something like a closed network working only locally without stuff coming from outside that network
Then it would be no problem to release replays for MLG.
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Great, I was expecting to download a lot of these since the Europe timetable is so terrible that I can't stay up and watch it live anyway. At least with the replays you can go through every match you found interesting, but now we can't. Really sucks.
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Zaire1232 Posts
On July 30 2011 06:02 R1CH wrote:
Technically this makes no sense. I haven't looked at the replay format in that much detail, but as far as I'm aware the only semi-personal data encoded in a replay is the battle.net ID of the players. This is the number in the URL of your profile if you view it on battle.net or your sc2ranks ID, this is NOT your character code. Unless someone has found a way to convert from battle.net ID to character code, this does nothing to stop people being added and spammed on battle.net since it wasn't possible in the first place other than by brute force guessing.
The best solution to the chat spam / lag problems is to set busy mode and join six chat channels before playing a game to prevent further invites. It seems MLG doesn't want to release replays (perhaps under pressure from Korean teams?) and is using this as an excuse.
i guess its not the korean team pressure but more like they want to sell vods (if there are free replays why would anyone buy vods?!)
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On July 30 2011 07:34 Art_of_Kill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 06:02 R1CH wrote:
Technically this makes no sense. I haven't looked at the replay format in that much detail, but as far as I'm aware the only semi-personal data encoded in a replay is the battle.net ID of the players. This is the number in the URL of your profile if you view it on battle.net or your sc2ranks ID, this is NOT your character code. Unless someone has found a way to convert from battle.net ID to character code, this does nothing to stop people being added and spammed on battle.net since it wasn't possible in the first place other than by brute force guessing.
The best solution to the chat spam / lag problems is to set busy mode and join six chat channels before playing a game to prevent further invites. It seems MLG doesn't want to release replays (perhaps under pressure from Korean teams?) and is using this as an excuse. i guess its not the korean team pressure but more like they want to sell vods (if there are free replays why would anyone buy vods?!)
because not all games are casted
when you watch MLG throughout the next 3 days, you will not see every game played....you will miss games played by your favorite players and unkown players alike
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On July 30 2011 07:20 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 07:15 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2011 07:08 Exarl25 wrote:On July 30 2011 07:05 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2011 07:01 Icekommander wrote:On July 30 2011 06:53 Plansix wrote:
I demand instant gratification on everything. I want the VODs, the replays and interviews all released as they happen. Really, I don't know why they don't let us be observers in the games too. First come, first served. And if the casters can't get in because the game is full, too bad. I'm a Team Liquid forum member and part of the community. Everything should be available to me at all times.
Seriously MGL, why don't you have every player go in, set to busy and open 6 chat channels every game. I don't care if you have to log out each players between sets, this is what needs to happen for me to get what I want. Sure, setting up the players takes time and you are focused on keeping the stream going. But that doesn't matter, I want my replays and you should force every pro to do this so I can have what I want.
And this DDoS crap. I have been to some hacking websites on the internet, you may have heard of it. Let me tell you, from the 20 minutes of research I have done and my knowledge from building one PC from parts I ordered off Newegg, that excuse is total crap. You can't DDoS someone from a replay. Sure it gives you their battle.net account information and then you can message them, that's it. There is no possible way in the world that you can DDoS someone once you know their account info and that they are logged into battle.net. So stop giving us this crap and release the replays. We demand it and its way more important that all of the other crap you are doing. -Setting to busy is standard tournament procedure. Opening six chat channels would take all of ten seconds. -R1ch (the guy quoted in the OP), from my understanding, is basically the official tech support/ trouble shooter for the teamliquid website. If someone reputable should know about what would and wouldn't allow DDOS attempts, it would be him. R1ch may be correct about the DDoS thing, but my sarcastic statement above still holds true. People are acting entitled and dumb. MLG has way more important things to worry as live events are hard as hell to run. I'm sure they would love to release replays, but the harassment through battle.net doesn't make it worth it. How on earth does that prevent them from simply releasing the replays after the event is over? I don't think many people would have a problem with that. It's the fact that we are being deprived of access to replays altogether and possibly under a false pretense that is getting people annoyed. They said they will release replay packs later. Maybe they will release all of them, who knows? Or maybe they will release none, like the GSL and NASL. Maybe they will make your pay for them if you want them. Maybe they will destroy all the replays and ship you the parts of the burn thumb drives out of spite. "How dare you take away the thing that was free before!!!! I demand a valid reason why you are taking away the thing that I got for free before. I will decide if the reason is valid, not you!!! If I don't like the reason, I will call you a liar and demand a reason I will accept! What, your taking it away because you don't want to deal with the issues it created and had a negative affect on your product people are paying for??? That's BS!!!! I demand you provide me with a better reason now!!!! Or I will continue to post in this thread about how angry I am!" No, they said they would release the replays for particular casters to cast, not to the public. A lot of people prefer looking the replays themselfs than needing to watch the youtube video of a caster they may not like. And your "irony" is starting to get annoying, specially since basically all your posts had wrong info in them.
Well I'm annoyed at entitled esports fans get enraged over every little thing and acting like drama queens. This information was out MONTHS ago. MGL said on SotG(it could have been another show) that they would not be releasing replays any more because of the chat spamming and harassment. And if they don't want to release them at all, that is their choice.
Its a free service and they aren't providing it any more. If you don't like it, don't watch MGL and boycott them. Or don't pay for the HQ stream. Or continue to whine about it in this thread. But don't act like they are some evil, deceptive corporation bent on lying to you and milking you for every penny.
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Man, this bums me out - I wanted to try my own hand at amateur casting some replays MLG D: Replay releasing was one of the things that put MLG on its own tier above other tournaments in my heart.
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On July 30 2011 07:34 Art_of_Kill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 06:02 R1CH wrote:
Technically this makes no sense. I haven't looked at the replay format in that much detail, but as far as I'm aware the only semi-personal data encoded in a replay is the battle.net ID of the players. This is the number in the URL of your profile if you view it on battle.net or your sc2ranks ID, this is NOT your character code. Unless someone has found a way to convert from battle.net ID to character code, this does nothing to stop people being added and spammed on battle.net since it wasn't possible in the first place other than by brute force guessing.
The best solution to the chat spam / lag problems is to set busy mode and join six chat channels before playing a game to prevent further invites. It seems MLG doesn't want to release replays (perhaps under pressure from Korean teams?) and is using this as an excuse. i guess its not the korean team pressure but more like they want to sell vods (if there are free replays why would anyone buy vods?!)
Because watching a game being cast live in front of a screaming crowd is a completely different experience to watching a replay.
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Noooo, MLG replays have been a gold mine. 
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On July 30 2011 07:24 Shaxe wrote:
I'd be able to swallow this better if they just came out and admit that Korean teams don't like releasing replays and it's part of the deal for the exchange program; but instead lying about the chat spam and misusing the term DDoS and ignoring alternatives such as releasing them after the event just makes me feel almost cheated for purchasing the HQ pass. Better yet, they might have gotten some guy who never touched SC2 before to write that announcement before even attempting to workaround the "DDoS" during Columbus. I gotta say, I'm getting a bad vibe from all this; between Husky & MrBitter, no HQ on both streams and now this happening.
These are the posts that bother me most. There's no room in your post for "I don't know all of the information." Instead, it's entirely, "I've come to the conclusion that they are purposefully lying to the community to actively coverup the truth."
Given all that MLG has done to regain trust and appreciation of the community, I doubt they would intentionally lie to the community... especially a lie that can easily be discovered to be false.
While this is purely my interpretation of the situation, I see it as this:
They knew that players getting spammed was a huge annoyance and problem. Whether bad information or a misunderstanding, they believe a replay can be used to determine a player's character code. When releasing the statement, they improperly decided to label it as ddos, when it's simply game lag problems caused by blizzard's awful chat features. To avoid the problems, they weren't going to release replays without cleaning them (if possible). However, why spend the additional man hours to collect, sort, clean, then upload the replays when they can simply choose not to release them.
addition: I'm also fine with no replays. I've always agreed with many of the progamers that replays shouldn't be released. There are a lot of subtleties you might miss from a vod, but from a replay it allows your BO and actions to be deciphered and hours and hours of your time now largely useless.
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I fully support no public replays, players shouldn't be able to jus watch them and get up to speed on new strategies. Boxer is right.
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I still recall casting a bunch of matches from MLG Columbus from the early stages of the event that never got covered by the streams. Heck! i still got replay files of series involving some of the top names there, not covered till this day on a folder.
I also recall the ammount of unstreamed matches that were covered by several "smaller" casting channels (like mine) that allowed to compile such a huge library of VODs covering most of the event.
Now they're gonna be handed to a selected group of casters...i can only wonder how many games are gonna get "lost in translation". But hey! nothing else to do besides respecting the decision i guess. Gonna move on and focus on other events.
Starting here in EU at around 3am or so i can imagine the ammount of content i'll be loosing from the early stages of the tournament. Best of luck for this weekend MLG.
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On July 30 2011 07:38 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 07:20 SKC wrote:On July 30 2011 07:15 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2011 07:08 Exarl25 wrote:On July 30 2011 07:05 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2011 07:01 Icekommander wrote:On July 30 2011 06:53 Plansix wrote:
I demand instant gratification on everything. I want the VODs, the replays and interviews all released as they happen. Really, I don't know why they don't let us be observers in the games too. First come, first served. And if the casters can't get in because the game is full, too bad. I'm a Team Liquid forum member and part of the community. Everything should be available to me at all times.
Seriously MGL, why don't you have every player go in, set to busy and open 6 chat channels every game. I don't care if you have to log out each players between sets, this is what needs to happen for me to get what I want. Sure, setting up the players takes time and you are focused on keeping the stream going. But that doesn't matter, I want my replays and you should force every pro to do this so I can have what I want.
And this DDoS crap. I have been to some hacking websites on the internet, you may have heard of it. Let me tell you, from the 20 minutes of research I have done and my knowledge from building one PC from parts I ordered off Newegg, that excuse is total crap. You can't DDoS someone from a replay. Sure it gives you their battle.net account information and then you can message them, that's it. There is no possible way in the world that you can DDoS someone once you know their account info and that they are logged into battle.net. So stop giving us this crap and release the replays. We demand it and its way more important that all of the other crap you are doing. -Setting to busy is standard tournament procedure. Opening six chat channels would take all of ten seconds. -R1ch (the guy quoted in the OP), from my understanding, is basically the official tech support/ trouble shooter for the teamliquid website. If someone reputable should know about what would and wouldn't allow DDOS attempts, it would be him. R1ch may be correct about the DDoS thing, but my sarcastic statement above still holds true. People are acting entitled and dumb. MLG has way more important things to worry as live events are hard as hell to run. I'm sure they would love to release replays, but the harassment through battle.net doesn't make it worth it. How on earth does that prevent them from simply releasing the replays after the event is over? I don't think many people would have a problem with that. It's the fact that we are being deprived of access to replays altogether and possibly under a false pretense that is getting people annoyed. They said they will release replay packs later. Maybe they will release all of them, who knows? Or maybe they will release none, like the GSL and NASL. Maybe they will make your pay for them if you want them. Maybe they will destroy all the replays and ship you the parts of the burn thumb drives out of spite. "How dare you take away the thing that was free before!!!! I demand a valid reason why you are taking away the thing that I got for free before. I will decide if the reason is valid, not you!!! If I don't like the reason, I will call you a liar and demand a reason I will accept! What, your taking it away because you don't want to deal with the issues it created and had a negative affect on your product people are paying for??? That's BS!!!! I demand you provide me with a better reason now!!!! Or I will continue to post in this thread about how angry I am!" No, they said they would release the replays for particular casters to cast, not to the public. A lot of people prefer looking the replays themselfs than needing to watch the youtube video of a caster they may not like. And your "irony" is starting to get annoying, specially since basically all your posts had wrong info in them. Well I'm annoyed at entitled esports fans get enraged over every little thing and acting like drama queens. This information was out MONTHS ago. MGL said on SotG(it could have been another show) that they would not be releasing replays any more because of the chat spamming and harassment. And if they don't want to release them at all, that is their choice. Its a free service and they aren't providing it any more. If you don't like it, don't watch MGL and boycott them. Or don't pay for the HQ stream. Or continue to whine about it in this thread. But don't act like they are some evil, deceptive corporation bent on lying to you and milking you for every penny.
They said they would no longer be releasing replays during the event, this is the first we have heard of the possibility that we would be deprived of them completely.
And get off your high horse, paying customers have a right to criticise.
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it sucks but you dont want people getting ddos'd like destiny and if they need to do this to protect the players they should
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EPT
