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Active: 2559 users

MLG Potential Prize Pool Increase - Page 34

Forum Index > SC2 General
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DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44915 Posts
July 30 2011 12:07 GMT
#661
Props to Sundance here. I'm a fan of the honesty and straightforwardness. I like to know what needs to be done to take things a step further with MLG (and e-sports in general) too. I'm sold.

I'm generally a fan of iNcontroL as well, but I disagree with him on this one. Geoff, what did you expect? It's business; at least it's out in the open. This stuff can't be cheap. As someone who helped run NASL, surely you know that firsthand.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Philip2110
Profile Joined April 2010
Scotland798 Posts
July 30 2011 12:08 GMT
#662
On July 30 2011 20:58 Thrombozyt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2011 03:10 Nausea wrote:
On July 30 2011 03:09 Art_of_Kill wrote:
i just say so much: event time for europe 2am - 8am, i dont see why anyone would watch let alone buy hd stream


I'm in europe, i will watch and i've bought a pass.


I would rather by an HD pass for NASL or IPL, that restream their content at times that I can comfortably watch.


Agree with this for this MLG times are so bad for EU. Cant complain because I know its a worldwide thing but I also cant justify buying one.
Master Sc2 - Diamond LoL - Eu W
manloveman
Profile Joined April 2011
424 Posts
July 30 2011 12:10 GMT
#663
1: Kick out the console games
2: Put in LoL
3: ???
4: Profit

It sounds harsh, but the current wave of esports are riding hard on sc2. LoL has show it can put up even better numbers. You need to get rid of the games that struggles, and focus on the ones that are actually viable.
fer
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada375 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 12:12:24
July 30 2011 12:12 GMT
#664
I don't really understand why I keep getting surprised at coming to the forums and finding out iNcontroL is yet again posting outright stupid "observations" about things he knows nothing about. I wish he'd just stop polluting threads with such as he is a very popular character and can cause massive outrage with his trash often resulting in thread derailment.


I have massive respect for Sundance, and MLG. I love what they do, and I'm very thankful that there's people and organizations willing to put out their careers and lives for something as new and unstable as is esports. I don't understand how anyone can complain or resent the fact that Sundance is being very transparent about what the organization needs as a business to keep moving forward and keep enhancing and growing the experience that is MLG.

I'll be buying my pass for sure, <3 MLG.
WellPlayed.org <3
Azz
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia65 Posts
July 30 2011 12:12 GMT
#665
On July 30 2011 20:51 shinyA wrote:
I love how all the people in this thread are complaining about the prize pool when it literally doesn't affect them one little bit.

The players will still play MLG's and you will still get to watch. The prize pool, as long as it's somewhat worth playing for, is irrelevant to 99.99999% of TL. The tournament format however.....


This is about social responsibility to players.

MLG has the lowest prize pool to profit ratio I have ever seen.

The only thing MLG has going for players is the Code A and Code S spot(s).

You can say 'Oh the publicity' but at the end of the day the money is coming out of players/teams pockets and not the tournament.

MLG is making a killing atm, and the prize pool is very poor. This is the point that is being made.
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
July 30 2011 12:16 GMT
#666
sundance just went up a notch in my books
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
Jago
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland390 Posts
July 30 2011 12:18 GMT
#667
On July 30 2011 21:12 Azz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2011 20:51 shinyA wrote:
I love how all the people in this thread are complaining about the prize pool when it literally doesn't affect them one little bit.

The players will still play MLG's and you will still get to watch. The prize pool, as long as it's somewhat worth playing for, is irrelevant to 99.99999% of TL. The tournament format however.....


This is about social responsibility to players.

MLG has the lowest prize pool to profit ratio I have ever seen.

The only thing MLG has going for players is the Code A and Code S spot(s).

You can say 'Oh the publicity' but at the end of the day the money is coming out of players/teams pockets and not the tournament.

MLG is making a killing atm, and the prize pool is very poor. This is the point that is being made.

So you have some insider information on MLG income and profit margins?
Klonere
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Ireland4123 Posts
July 30 2011 12:18 GMT
#668
On July 30 2011 21:12 Azz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2011 20:51 shinyA wrote:
I love how all the people in this thread are complaining about the prize pool when it literally doesn't affect them one little bit.

The players will still play MLG's and you will still get to watch. The prize pool, as long as it's somewhat worth playing for, is irrelevant to 99.99999% of TL. The tournament format however.....


This is about social responsibility to players.

MLG has the lowest prize pool to profit ratio I have ever seen.

The only thing MLG has going for players is the Code A and Code S spot(s).

You can say 'Oh the publicity' but at the end of the day the money is coming out of players/teams pockets and not the tournament.

MLG is making a killing atm, and the prize pool is very poor. This is the point that is being made.


MLG is not profitable. The only reason they are even afloat is venture capital which are essentially loans.


Azz
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia65 Posts
July 30 2011 12:20 GMT
#669
On July 30 2011 21:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Props to Sundance here. I'm a fan of the honesty and straightforwardness. I like to know what needs to be done to take things a step further with MLG (and e-sports in general) too. I'm sold.

I'm generally a fan of iNcontroL as well, but I disagree with him on this one. Geoff, what did you expect? It's business; at least it's out in the open. This stuff can't be cheap. As someone who helped run NASL, surely you know that firsthand.


Actually its VERY COST EFFICIENT to run an event like MLG with the current prize pool & revenue raising.

Incontrol is a smart bloke. You say 'at least its out in the open' .. if only you had an idea of their business model.

You can argue that they 'vaguely underestimated the potential' for this year.

If they were truly thinking of the development of esports... they would have made a move to COMPENSATE and CORRECT their prize distributions due to 'updated profit projection rates'.

At the end of the day, MLG are a business, once again the point is to make profit and with their current prize pool structure they are basically tossing a few bones to hundreds of hungry gamers.

Yes, they are developing E-sports, but not in the interest of the players monetary gains.
Azz
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia65 Posts
July 30 2011 12:23 GMT
#670


MLG is not profitable. The only reason they are even afloat is venture capital which are essentially loans.



Sure it is, explain why its not profitable?
minimat
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia344 Posts
July 30 2011 12:23 GMT
#671
Lol Azz if only you had an idea of their business model..
Zomodok
Profile Joined September 2010
United States41 Posts
July 30 2011 12:25 GMT
#672
Hmm MLG Dallas is a complete failure, stream dies constantly and latency at the venue is downright horrible to the point where the game is near unplayable.

Sundance comes out and goes "We messed up and it's a disgrace, we are going to fix it" and proceeds to do Columbus which while it had it's hiccups, was an overall great event. Even allowing the HD stream to be previewed to everybody. Sundance then continues to work with the community and asks questions about what needs to be improved and how and has an overall positive attitude.

NASL becomes a running joke with "the audio" guy and the horrible commentating and just the amateur presentation and Incontrol cries like a baby going "If you don't support us you want Esports to fail" and continues to cry about growing pains and "learning" experiences, but never improves on any of the communities input or improves at all. The only good thing about the NASL was the Final match between MC/Puma and that sadly was it.

Hold on a second while I decide which person I want to support with my money to make "ESPORTS" grow.
Thrombozyt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1269 Posts
July 30 2011 12:31 GMT
#673
On July 30 2011 17:43 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2011 17:28 iNcontroL wrote:
Wat lol

[image loading]

I don't see how you possibly think it's appropriate for you to criticize another business's advertising method, especially when that business has a proven track record.

GosuCoaching v.1
GosuCamp
GosuGuide
GosuBodyMassage

And you pleaded for NASL memberships before even having broadcasted a game, and throughout the entire season while you still continued to deliver a sub par product. And throughout all that time Sundance was supportive of you! You are the #1 snake oil salesman in the SC2 community, even more than Shokz.

MLG runs 3 (soon to be 4, possibly 5) different games, at 4+ events per year. For the current three games, their payout was close to $800,000. Sundance is trying to hype it to be more. Not only do more memberships (which aren't necessarily $30 - you become a member for free, you become a silver member for $10.) help them draw in sponsors, but it carries over to every other event in the next year. Sundance only mentioned the Grand Finals because that's the only one on this year's budget that's within a reasonable timeframe, and it's the most important one to hype in his 144 character limit.

Do you really think he's only talking about $25,000/$50,000 more for a single SC2 event? When they've got 4/5 games and multiple events throughout the year? In the grand scheme of MLG, where it came from and what it is, look how far SC2 has come from a year ago. They plan out these events and all the production that goes into them upwards to a year in advance, and we've only seen the beginning of what's in store for SC2.

You say it's underhanded to offer an incentive for giving money, but that's exactly what you did for NASL. The only difference is that Sundance was very specific about the numbers needed, and at least gave partial information about what the outcome would be. All you did was give a vague explanation about how it would help ESPORTS and how it could make NASL better in the future. And somehow that's better than what MLG did? Now Sundance has replied and clarified that he didn't just mean a single event, but that he means the entire SC2/MLG circuit can be revamped with such kind of support. Now this is where you say, "Oh, that sounds great, Sundance! Thanks for clarifying, I was wrong in my earlier remarks."


Thank you for this very informative post. Especially when only signing up for free helps MLG in any fashion, that's the least I can do even if I can't watch many of the games due to time zone stuff.
Doler
Profile Joined July 2011
United States206 Posts
July 30 2011 12:32 GMT
#674
On July 30 2011 21:25 Zomodok wrote:
Hmm MLG Dallas is a complete failure, stream dies constantly and latency at the venue is downright horrible to the point where the game is near unplayable.

Sundance comes out and goes "We messed up and it's a disgrace, we are going to fix it" and proceeds to do Columbus which while it had it's hiccups, was an overall great event. Even allowing the HD stream to be previewed to everybody. Sundance then continues to work with the community and asks questions about what needs to be improved and how and has an overall positive attitude.

NASL becomes a running joke with "the audio" guy and the horrible commentating and just the amateur presentation and Incontrol cries like a baby going "If you don't support us you want Esports to fail" and continues to cry about growing pains and "learning" experiences, but never improves on any of the communities input or improves at all. The only good thing about the NASL was the Final match between MC/Puma and that sadly was it.

Hold on a second while I decide which person I want to support with my money to make "ESPORTS" grow.


Interesting post, anyway take my money Sundance! The event is awesome so far. I enjoy every MLG and this one ain't an exception.
Nayl
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada413 Posts
July 30 2011 12:35 GMT
#675
I don't see the problem everyone have with MLG's prize pool. MLG is doing the right thing, spending money to have perfect event rather than spending all its cash to boast the prize pool.

Sirscoot himself criticized Riot games for spending tons of money on prizes instead of actually making the game esports friendly. NASL has huge prize pool, but with subpar experience for the viewers.

MLG/Dreamhack ect on the otherhand focus on the event itself rather than just having huge prize pool to draw the audience. Which method do you think will be sustainable in the end?
Azz
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia65 Posts
July 30 2011 12:38 GMT
#676
On July 30 2011 21:35 Nayl wrote:
I don't see the problem everyone have with MLG's prize pool. MLG is doing the right thing, spending money to have perfect event rather than spending all its cash to boast the prize pool.

Sirscoot himself criticized Riot games for spending tons of money on prizes instead of actually making the game esports friendly. NASL has huge prize pool, but with subpar experience for the viewers.

MLG/Dreamhack ect on the otherhand focus on the event itself rather than just having huge prize pool to draw the audience. Which method do you think will be sustainable in the end?


The best tournament to date is probably the HDH 1.

If only they could have done the HDH2 with the new prize pool.
Nayl
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada413 Posts
July 30 2011 12:40 GMT
#677
On July 30 2011 21:38 Azz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2011 21:35 Nayl wrote:
I don't see the problem everyone have with MLG's prize pool. MLG is doing the right thing, spending money to have perfect event rather than spending all its cash to boast the prize pool.

Sirscoot himself criticized Riot games for spending tons of money on prizes instead of actually making the game esports friendly. NASL has huge prize pool, but with subpar experience for the viewers.

MLG/Dreamhack ect on the otherhand focus on the event itself rather than just having huge prize pool to draw the audience. Which method do you think will be sustainable in the end?


The best tournament to date is probably the HDH 1.

If only they could have done the HDH2 with the new prize pool.


What makes you say that? While HDH1 was certainly good for its time, we've had a lot more tournaments with better production/game/casts.
justinpal
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3810 Posts
July 30 2011 12:40 GMT
#678
On July 30 2011 21:38 Azz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2011 21:35 Nayl wrote:
I don't see the problem everyone have with MLG's prize pool. MLG is doing the right thing, spending money to have perfect event rather than spending all its cash to boast the prize pool.

Sirscoot himself criticized Riot games for spending tons of money on prizes instead of actually making the game esports friendly. NASL has huge prize pool, but with subpar experience for the viewers.

MLG/Dreamhack ect on the otherhand focus on the event itself rather than just having huge prize pool to draw the audience. Which method do you think will be sustainable in the end?


The best tournament to date is probably the HDH 1.

If only they could have done the HDH2 with the new prize pool.


Only cause CauthonLuck was still playing.
Never make a hydralisk.
iba001
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia156 Posts
July 30 2011 12:42 GMT
#679
On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 14:20 iNcontroL wrote:
Uhhh if you give me a million dollars I will raise the prizepool??? Wow! That is amazing!



Months ago you gave me shit about the prize pool and now I'm putting a simple and obtainable goal out there for the entire community and you give me shit again - and that's fine. I still respect you and appreciate what you've done and will continue to do for the scene. My question is this - if the number was 50,000 would you take an issue with my approach? How about 15,000? What if I didn't say a thing and just watched my spreadsheets populate with numbers and kept the community in the dark? Shouldn't the people who love this have some insight into what is needed for success?

You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. $30 a year from 10,000 people means that we're all wrong and there isn't enough fan support to sustain a business of scale.

Less than a dime a day from less than 10% of the people who visit our site over the course of an event weekend allows me to flip a switch and change next year to a structure that supports 24 live events & 28 meaningful ladders. 52 competitions with nearly 2 million dollars of prize money and stipends.

Again - I don't care if you think I'm an asshole or a money grubbing prick. I just want to find out if what we do is actually meaningful to enough of you to step up.



woah, huge post. big respect, you're getting my money even though i can't always watch MLG.

i'd give you extra just for the hippy reference.
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 12:45:45
July 30 2011 12:45 GMT
#680
On July 30 2011 21:23 Azz wrote:
Show nested quote +


MLG is not profitable. The only reason they are even afloat is venture capital which are essentially loans.



Sure it is, explain why its not profitable?


Explain to me why you assume it is. If it were this easy to make a profit on these types of events we would see a lot more of them. And that without even looked at the actual facts that we know.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
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