EPTThe only worry I have is the WoC statement about TL journalism and translators
EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism - Page 69
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
The only worry I have is the WoC statement about TL journalism and translators | ||
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
Anyways, I totally agree that it got blown out of proportion, and I wish PuMa and EG the best of luck. | ||
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JinRohHANZO
France40 Posts
There are many ways to do business properly and ethically. EG did not. AG doesn't want to look as a big bad wolf. Maybe not acting like he did would have helped then... Welcome in the Kespa 2.0 era, thanks to EG. So sad. I only hope Puma will reach his full potential and won't ruin his talent in this new environment. | ||
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ChefTony
United States68 Posts
It's pretty hard to believe that they really really wanted to do things by the book and then whoops this situation happened. Not to mention I really felt like this post was just very repetitive and came back to the fact that it was Pumas idea to talk to Lee first. EG should have been in contact with TSL management not send a player to break the news that he was leaving. Either way it happened this will all blow over and EG will have this insane player to add to it's roster Puma, idra, incontrol is much scarier then idra, incontrol and ??? demuslim? | ||
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Grimsong
United States252 Posts
On July 27 2011 06:56 JinRohHANZO wrote: There are many ways to do business properly and ethically. EG did not. AG doesn't want to look as a big bad wolf. Maybe not acting like he did would have helped then... Welcome in the Kespa 2.0 era, thanks to EG. So sad. I only hope Puma will reach his full potential and won't ruin his talent in this new environment. OR! Welcome Kespa 2.0 era, thanks to TSL. With proper business practices, they would have had Puma signed to a contract and this controversy never arises. Because TSL didn't handle business properly, now the rest of the Korean community will overreact just like Coach Lee did. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On July 27 2011 06:48 WolfintheSheep wrote: I love how the EG haters completely ignore that this was Puma's decision straight from the get-go. EG handed out business cards and said they had a spot they were trying to fill. That's it. No contract talk, no money talk, no work talk. "Here's my card, we're recruiting, call me if you're interested". If you read the OP you'll see that they did discuss it weeks after the NASL without notifying the TSL coach. Puma is just a player and a kid, EG is supposed to be a serious business. Guess which one people are holding to a higher standard? | ||
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Broodwurst
Germany1586 Posts
also these other people did really bad things too and stuff. i for one welcome our new politician overlords. | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On July 27 2011 07:00 karpo wrote: If you read the OP you'll see that they did discuss it weeks after the NASL without notifying the TSL coach. Puma is just a player and a kid, EG is supposed to be a serious business. Guess which one people are holding to a higher standard? Today I learned that 19 year olds cannot be held responsible for their own financial decisions. Good to know, bro. | ||
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FaZe
Canada472 Posts
Do you think that in the '07-'08 season the Cavaliers increased LeBron James' salary by $7,000,000 because they just though he worked hard for it and deserved a raise? Hell no. They increased his salary because if they didn't, someone would have picked him up for his market price when his contract expired in '06. Businesses are going to compete, that's how it works. EG went about this deal very courteously, of course there are going to be people who are butthurt about TSL not being able to provide what EG can for Puma, but how is that EG's fault? EG picked up Puma because he was uncontracted. If I was an owner of a Starcraft 2 team, I'd start contracting my players. Or maybe I can't afford to contract my players, in which case I'd double my efforts to seeing that I WAS able to. I think that this deal was great for EG, and terrible for TSL. It would be like if a top NHL player was traded away from his team for nothing. Lol. Mr.Lee did an interesting thing striking back though. Teams are basically marketing tools, and by posting what he did / when he did, he managed to at least reduce the amount of positive reception the deal had. If instead he hadn't posted anything, and the deal went through, and EG made a timely press release detailing the aquisition, and TSL made a statement saying that they wished him the best of luck - EG would be in a FAR better position. Instead of hating on EG, everyone would be thinking about how much of a sinking ship TSL is. I'd say well played Mr.Lee, but I selfishly think that going for retribution is probably the worst idea. I want don't want to scare away potential sponsors who are afraid of drama ^^. | ||
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Coeus1
Finland160 Posts
So not the first time. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On July 27 2011 07:02 SafeAsCheese wrote: Today I learned that 19 year olds cannot be held responsible for their own financial decisions. Good to know, bro. Sure at 19 you're considered as a adult. But i also know that most of my friends and myself included were pretty naive and didn't have much knowledge about business or the real world at 19. I'm guessing living in pro houses right after school doesn't really provide your with much experience in these things either. I still stand by my argument that one is a young adult with no previous experience with these kinds of things while the other is a know large pro-gaming business. EG should know this as well and act accordingly, that's all i'm saying. | ||
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JinRohHANZO
France40 Posts
On July 27 2011 07:02 SafeAsCheese wrote: Today I learned that 19 year olds cannot be held responsible for their own financial decisions. Good to know, bro. A 19 years old kid is responsible for his own financial and career decisions BUT, it's more than possible he didn't have any experience of how the business works in western countries before this event. An advisor, such as his coach or an agent might have helped him in that case... | ||
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iamahydralisk
United States813 Posts
Basically, I think this whole debacle is a product of ethics versus efficiency. While I agree that EG's method of trying to sign PuMa may not have been the most ethical, it was certainly the most logical and efficient way of doing so. Going directly to the source (PuMa himself) to find out if the player is even interested is the most direct and least complicated way of beginning the signing process. It's much less complicated than going to Coach Lee first because if EG had gone to Coach Lee first, Coach Lee could've complicated things. He could've done a number of things, from forcing PuMa to sign a contract, to blatantly lying to EG and saying PuMa wasn't interested, or something else. Now, I am in no way accusing Coach Lee of being willing to use these underhanded tactics, but the possibility of such things happening automatically makes this route less desirable from an efficiency standpoint. Now, some of you may be wondering, "why is efficiency so important here?" Because, the fact is, EG (and similar organizations) are more than just progaming teams. They are also businesses, and good businesses aim to run efficiently. I feel that a lot of you are forgetting this key fact. Ultimately, because EG is a business, it's understandable that they'd want to take the most efficient and least complicated route in acquiring a commodity that they want. TL;DR From a business standpoint, EG did nothing wrong. They acted exactly as a business should; in the most efficient way possible. From an ethics standpoint, they may have been able to handle things better, but this can also be said of Coach Lee and TSL. If it's true that he jumped the gun with the negative publicity, he's no better than EG in an ethical sense. | ||
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PlaGuE_R
France1151 Posts
In fact, this 'statement' makes even more angry at you! Approaching PuMa at NASL finals is all fine and dandy, if a bit underhanded. But you carried on for WEEKS! now, that's fucked up! seriously, i hate EG now. :/ | ||
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0c3LoT
Canada162 Posts
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Batch
Sweden692 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On July 27 2011 07:00 karpo wrote: If you read the OP you'll see that they did discuss it weeks after the NASL without notifying the TSL coach. Puma is just a player and a kid, EG is supposed to be a serious business. Guess which one people are holding to a higher standard? AKA, respect means treat players like dirt and coaches should control every aspect of a player's life. Puma wanted to talk personally with the coach that he'd been with for years. Respect that. Puma wanted to take his career to EG. Respect that. Puma wanted to part-ways with TSL on amicable terms. Respect that. By all accounts, EG did right by Puma every step of the way, and Coach Lee had a rage-rant that made Puma the centre of an eSport controversy...which he later backtracked on. Funny how this whole "respect" thing actually works out, isn't it? | ||
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JinRohHANZO
France40 Posts
On July 27 2011 07:15 Batch wrote: EG did nothign wrong here. They talked to a player to know if he was interested in playing for them before contacting his team. If the player wouldn't be interested then it would be no point in negotiating with his team. This is what happens in nearly all sports. Yeah, but question is : do we really want SC2 scene to go the same way the other sports did, with big money for main and only purpose ? So sad... | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On July 27 2011 07:20 JinRohHANZO wrote: Yeah, but question is : do we really want SC2 scene to go the same way the other sports did, with big money for main and only purpose ? So sad... I know the fanboys have some petty delusions about some "fun gaming scene", but otherwise, yes, I'm pretty sure none of the actual players and teams involved mind money going their way. I'm also certain that you don't practice 6-8 hours a day for the "fun" of it. Nothing's stopping you from playing in your neighbourhood tourneys with $50 prize pools, though, so go right ahead. | ||
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On July 26 2011 14:29 tyCe wrote: Are you kidding? Players have responsibilities too. Just because a young 20-something year old progamer doesn't have his moral values in the right places, doesn't mean that EG should capitalise on that and use him as a pawn to leverage their position against TSL. If EG cared about the moral good of the sport, they would use the proper procedure. Obviously, EG cares more about themselves than any moral responsibilities, and this transfer controversy resulted. It is not a question of whether EG wanted to help PuMa's interests or respect TSL. You have got to be kidding yourself if you believe that EG acted in PuMa's interests and so they secured the deal. EG acted in EG's interests, which happened also to be in PuMa's interests (i.e. done deal). EG saw an opportunity with PuMa given that he wasn't in a contract and knew they were in a good position to sign him. Legally, there was no problem with what they did. They knew that time was of the essence and didn't want to give any hints to TSL, so they fed PuMa some utopian prospects and let him do the talking. TSL was naive. They should have contracted all their players that they were sure they wanted to retain. They are not blameless, as they probably thought themselves that by not contracting their players, it would allow them to dump the failed players easier. On the other hand, EG is not blameless. EG is a veteran of the e-sports scene and they knew that by snatching PuMa, who had been trained in the TSL house since he began SC2, there would be a huge public backlash. What they did was legal, not moral. It wasn't just immoral - it was nasty. They knew the PR risks and they did it anyway. I guess the backlash mitigation plan was just to post the "true story" where it reveals that they basically put the whole blame on PuMa and TSL. Just because PuMa told EG that his father-figure, manager and coach of the last year, who's managing a team mired in the process of rebuilding, and was kind enough to allow PuMa to join the NASL and attend the NASL finals, was "amicable" in receiving the news that his top player would leave the TSL without any compensation and effective next week, does not mean that EG can rely on that news and use it as a scapegoat when the inevitable public outcry begins. Seriously, EG is blameless? The least they could have done was approach TSL and tell them about the conversation with PuMa. TSL would obviously try to retain PuMa with generous terms, but they probably did that anyway and it didn't work. I don't know why they felt it was best to resort to dirty tactics. Puma doesn't have his moral values in the right places? Are YOU kidding me? Why should Puma feel obligated to stay on a team he isn't contracted to and isn't paid by? Because TSL sacrificed oh so much for him? No, TSL worked hard for Puma in their own interest, not for any altruistic reasons of wanting the best for Puma. TSL was Puma's employer, not his family, and he doesn't owe them anything. They didn't even pay him. If we were all obligated to stay with our first employer just because they gave us good training, well, then the we wouldn't get anywhere and nor would society. Where did I say EG didn't act in their own interests? Of course they acted in their own interest, and it happened to benefit Puma's interest also. EG knew their would be a huge public backlash? Maybe they should have, but they probably thought people would be a little more reasonable about the situation. Honestly we wouldn't be having this conversation if Mr. Lee hadn't been interviewed. NOBODY WOULD CARE because players change teams all the time. I still don't see how it is dirty tactics. They told Puma that their was an opening on their team and if he was interested he could join. They thought the best route was to have Puma talk to his coach personally and then make his decision. This whole idea that EG needs to talk to TSL first before Puma hears about anything is really just saying that Puma is a commodity to be negotiated between teams, when in fact he is a human being who should be able to make his own decisions and hear about whatever offers are out there. | ||
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