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TSL's Coach Lee speaks out on PuMa - Page 22

Forum Index > SC2 General
764 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 20 21 22 23 24 39 Next All
Usagi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Spain1647 Posts
July 22 2011 19:35 GMT
#421
On July 23 2011 04:06 pStar wrote:
I feel so sorry for TSl, they basically found this guy and made him into a starcraft player. Whats even more annoying is the complete lack of respect that EG showed.

Also, that guy who was on Lo3 last night was an asshole, and did not even let Milkis put across his argument, this I feel was what EG did the whole time, with them not even approaching TSL

ESTRO made this player, he was playing there already when Idra was.
Puma would have been able to get into any korean team he wanted.
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 19:39:05
July 22 2011 19:38 GMT
#422
On July 23 2011 04:35 Usagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:06 pStar wrote:
I feel so sorry for TSl, they basically found this guy and made him into a starcraft player. Whats even more annoying is the complete lack of respect that EG showed.

Also, that guy who was on Lo3 last night was an asshole, and did not even let Milkis put across his argument, this I feel was what EG did the whole time, with them not even approaching TSL

ESTRO made this player, he was playing there already when Idra was.
Puma would have been able to get into any korean team he wanted.

Estro made him into a pretty mediocore BW player
TSL made him a top level terran SC2 player

I think you severely underestimate the amount of time and effort coaching has in a player's performance

Korean progame coaches arent like american high school football coaches where you just see them for a 2-3 hour daily practice. they live together and its much more of a father/son relationship than some americans seem to think.
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
July 22 2011 19:41 GMT
#423
No man, Sir Scoots will be Puma's new dad! They'll toss the ball around during the evenings, give each other man-hugs when appropriate, and have serious talks about life and what it means to become a man.
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
July 22 2011 19:43 GMT
#424
On July 23 2011 04:41 zarepath wrote:
No man, Sir Scoots will be Puma's new dad! They'll toss the ball around during the evenings, give each other man-hugs when appropriate, and have serious talks about life and what it means to become a man.

maybe sirscoots should focus on developing some of the players he already has under contract, because they havent been doing so well for such a major organization.
sCfO20
Profile Joined May 2011
176 Posts
July 22 2011 19:44 GMT
#425
There's a saying where I come from.

"If you liked it, then you shoulda put a ring on it."

LOL
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
July 22 2011 19:46 GMT
#426
On July 23 2011 04:44 sCfO20 wrote:
There's a saying where I come from.

"If you liked it, then you shoulda put a ring on it."

LOL

hahaha, brilliant
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
Grimsong
Profile Joined August 2010
United States252 Posts
July 22 2011 19:47 GMT
#427
On July 23 2011 04:43 Condor Hero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:41 zarepath wrote:
No man, Sir Scoots will be Puma's new dad! They'll toss the ball around during the evenings, give each other man-hugs when appropriate, and have serious talks about life and what it means to become a man.

maybe sirscoots should focus on developing some of the players he already has under contract, because they havent been doing so well for such a major organization.


I'm certain that post was sarcasm in regards to people saying Coach Lee is Daddy Puma playing softball with his boys in the summer.
Hasire
Profile Joined February 2010
United States125 Posts
July 22 2011 19:48 GMT
#428
On July 23 2011 04:38 Condor Hero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:35 Usagi wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:06 pStar wrote:
I feel so sorry for TSl, they basically found this guy and made him into a starcraft player. Whats even more annoying is the complete lack of respect that EG showed.

Also, that guy who was on Lo3 last night was an asshole, and did not even let Milkis put across his argument, this I feel was what EG did the whole time, with them not even approaching TSL

ESTRO made this player, he was playing there already when Idra was.
Puma would have been able to get into any korean team he wanted.

Estro made him into a pretty mediocore BW player
TSL made him a top level terran SC2 player

I think you severely underestimate the amount of time and effort coaching has in a player's performance

Korean progame coaches arent like american high school football coaches where you just see them for a 2-3 hour daily practice. they live together and its much more of a father/son relationship than some americans seem to think.


If they wanted to treat him like an asset to the team that they made, they should have treated him like that from the start. You can't just hole your players in for a rebuilding stage, sending them nowhere and not expect good players to get offers for money when you give them nothing.

If you want to keep a player, make it worth their time to stay. It's pretty widely agreed that the BW model sucked, there is no point in defending players getting screwed over in SC2 for their work just because that is how it was in BW.


Additionally, this topic is full of "You have to respect their traditions", ect. Why don't they have to respect ours, though? Puma was on US soil, without a contract, and received an offer. Hell, if a player is going overseas to somewhere that the majority of foreign teams are, maybe you should send a team rep with you?

But then again, what good is a TSL rep good for other then saying no and keeping players unpayed for their work. Having your rep be the guy who makes money off you staying with the team is a terrible decision, and is exactly why EG had to handle this the way they did.


Grats to Puma for accepting, you deserve it.
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
July 22 2011 19:51 GMT
#429
On July 23 2011 04:48 Hasire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:38 Condor Hero wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:35 Usagi wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:06 pStar wrote:
I feel so sorry for TSl, they basically found this guy and made him into a starcraft player. Whats even more annoying is the complete lack of respect that EG showed.

Also, that guy who was on Lo3 last night was an asshole, and did not even let Milkis put across his argument, this I feel was what EG did the whole time, with them not even approaching TSL

ESTRO made this player, he was playing there already when Idra was.
Puma would have been able to get into any korean team he wanted.

Estro made him into a pretty mediocore BW player
TSL made him a top level terran SC2 player

I think you severely underestimate the amount of time and effort coaching has in a player's performance

Korean progame coaches arent like american high school football coaches where you just see them for a 2-3 hour daily practice. they live together and its much more of a father/son relationship than some americans seem to think.


If they wanted to treat him like an asset to the team that they made, they should have treated him like that from the start. You can't just hole your players in for a rebuilding stage, sending them nowhere and not expect good players to get offers for money when you give them nothing.

If you want to keep a player, make it worth their time to stay. It's pretty widely agreed that the BW model sucked, there is no point in defending players getting screwed over in SC2 for their work just because that is how it was in BW.


Additionally, this topic is full of "You have to respect their traditions", ect. Why don't they have to respect ours, though? Puma was on US soil, without a contract, and received an offer. Hell, if a player is going overseas to somewhere that the majority of foreign teams are, maybe you should send a team rep with you?

But then again, what good is a TSL rep good for other then saying no and keeping players unpayed for their work. Having your rep be the guy who makes money off you staying with the team is a terrible decision, and is exactly why EG had to handle this the way they did.


Grats to Puma for accepting, you deserve it.


nowhere in my post do i argue any of the shit you just responded to now.
svefnleysi
Profile Joined March 2011
Iceland623 Posts
July 22 2011 19:52 GMT
#430
Thanks for the translation.
Hasire
Profile Joined February 2010
United States125 Posts
July 22 2011 19:53 GMT
#431
On July 23 2011 04:51 Condor Hero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:48 Hasire wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:38 Condor Hero wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:35 Usagi wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:06 pStar wrote:
I feel so sorry for TSl, they basically found this guy and made him into a starcraft player. Whats even more annoying is the complete lack of respect that EG showed.

Also, that guy who was on Lo3 last night was an asshole, and did not even let Milkis put across his argument, this I feel was what EG did the whole time, with them not even approaching TSL

ESTRO made this player, he was playing there already when Idra was.
Puma would have been able to get into any korean team he wanted.

Estro made him into a pretty mediocore BW player
TSL made him a top level terran SC2 player

I think you severely underestimate the amount of time and effort coaching has in a player's performance

Korean progame coaches arent like american high school football coaches where you just see them for a 2-3 hour daily practice. they live together and its much more of a father/son relationship than some americans seem to think.


If they wanted to treat him like an asset to the team that they made, they should have treated him like that from the start. You can't just hole your players in for a rebuilding stage, sending them nowhere and not expect good players to get offers for money when you give them nothing.

If you want to keep a player, make it worth their time to stay. It's pretty widely agreed that the BW model sucked, there is no point in defending players getting screwed over in SC2 for their work just because that is how it was in BW.


Additionally, this topic is full of "You have to respect their traditions", ect. Why don't they have to respect ours, though? Puma was on US soil, without a contract, and received an offer. Hell, if a player is going overseas to somewhere that the majority of foreign teams are, maybe you should send a team rep with you?

But then again, what good is a TSL rep good for other then saying no and keeping players unpayed for their work. Having your rep be the guy who makes money off you staying with the team is a terrible decision, and is exactly why EG had to handle this the way they did.


Grats to Puma for accepting, you deserve it.


nowhere in my post do i argue any of the shit you just responded to now.



You're trying to say they "made him" and put a lot of effort into molding him as a player.

First half of my post is responding to that.
Tyrellius
Profile Joined February 2011
36 Posts
July 22 2011 19:53 GMT
#432
On July 22 2011 12:43 IcedBacon wrote:

The West != the East, that is all.



Life is not a song, sweetling.
butchji
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany1531 Posts
July 22 2011 19:54 GMT
#433
On July 23 2011 04:38 Condor Hero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:35 Usagi wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:06 pStar wrote:
I feel so sorry for TSl, they basically found this guy and made him into a starcraft player. Whats even more annoying is the complete lack of respect that EG showed.

Also, that guy who was on Lo3 last night was an asshole, and did not even let Milkis put across his argument, this I feel was what EG did the whole time, with them not even approaching TSL

ESTRO made this player, he was playing there already when Idra was.
Puma would have been able to get into any korean team he wanted.

Estro made him into a pretty mediocore BW player
TSL made him a top level terran SC2 player

I think you severely underestimate the amount of time and effort coaching has in a player's performance

Korean progame coaches arent like american high school football coaches where you just see them for a 2-3 hour daily practice. they live together and its much more of a father/son relationship than some americans seem to think.


Except that being mediocre in BroodWar is a huge achievement.
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 19:55:56
July 22 2011 19:55 GMT
#434
On July 23 2011 04:53 Hasire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:51 Condor Hero wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:48 Hasire wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:38 Condor Hero wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:35 Usagi wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:06 pStar wrote:
I feel so sorry for TSl, they basically found this guy and made him into a starcraft player. Whats even more annoying is the complete lack of respect that EG showed.

Also, that guy who was on Lo3 last night was an asshole, and did not even let Milkis put across his argument, this I feel was what EG did the whole time, with them not even approaching TSL

ESTRO made this player, he was playing there already when Idra was.
Puma would have been able to get into any korean team he wanted.

Estro made him into a pretty mediocore BW player
TSL made him a top level terran SC2 player

I think you severely underestimate the amount of time and effort coaching has in a player's performance

Korean progame coaches arent like american high school football coaches where you just see them for a 2-3 hour daily practice. they live together and its much more of a father/son relationship than some americans seem to think.


If they wanted to treat him like an asset to the team that they made, they should have treated him like that from the start. You can't just hole your players in for a rebuilding stage, sending them nowhere and not expect good players to get offers for money when you give them nothing.

If you want to keep a player, make it worth their time to stay. It's pretty widely agreed that the BW model sucked, there is no point in defending players getting screwed over in SC2 for their work just because that is how it was in BW.


Additionally, this topic is full of "You have to respect their traditions", ect. Why don't they have to respect ours, though? Puma was on US soil, without a contract, and received an offer. Hell, if a player is going overseas to somewhere that the majority of foreign teams are, maybe you should send a team rep with you?

But then again, what good is a TSL rep good for other then saying no and keeping players unpayed for their work. Having your rep be the guy who makes money off you staying with the team is a terrible decision, and is exactly why EG had to handle this the way they did.


Grats to Puma for accepting, you deserve it.


nowhere in my post do i argue any of the shit you just responded to now.



You're trying to say they "made him" and put a lot of effort into molding him as a player.

First half of my post is responding to that.

It was a joint effort of Puma's hard work and TSL coaching staff that made him the player he is today.
you didnt respond to anything i said.
TedJustice
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1324 Posts
July 22 2011 19:56 GMT
#435
Everyone saying they're thinking less of EG now is kind of silly.

EG is its players, not just some corporate entity. By not supporting them, you're only hurting the players on it. And the players have done nothing wrong.

I for one don't give two shits about what goes on behind the scenes as long as the players are happy and performing well.
Hasire
Profile Joined February 2010
United States125 Posts
July 22 2011 19:57 GMT
#436
On July 23 2011 04:55 Condor Hero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:53 Hasire wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:51 Condor Hero wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:48 Hasire wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:38 Condor Hero wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:35 Usagi wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:06 pStar wrote:
I feel so sorry for TSl, they basically found this guy and made him into a starcraft player. Whats even more annoying is the complete lack of respect that EG showed.

Also, that guy who was on Lo3 last night was an asshole, and did not even let Milkis put across his argument, this I feel was what EG did the whole time, with them not even approaching TSL

ESTRO made this player, he was playing there already when Idra was.
Puma would have been able to get into any korean team he wanted.

Estro made him into a pretty mediocore BW player
TSL made him a top level terran SC2 player

I think you severely underestimate the amount of time and effort coaching has in a player's performance

Korean progame coaches arent like american high school football coaches where you just see them for a 2-3 hour daily practice. they live together and its much more of a father/son relationship than some americans seem to think.


If they wanted to treat him like an asset to the team that they made, they should have treated him like that from the start. You can't just hole your players in for a rebuilding stage, sending them nowhere and not expect good players to get offers for money when you give them nothing.

If you want to keep a player, make it worth their time to stay. It's pretty widely agreed that the BW model sucked, there is no point in defending players getting screwed over in SC2 for their work just because that is how it was in BW.


Additionally, this topic is full of "You have to respect their traditions", ect. Why don't they have to respect ours, though? Puma was on US soil, without a contract, and received an offer. Hell, if a player is going overseas to somewhere that the majority of foreign teams are, maybe you should send a team rep with you?

But then again, what good is a TSL rep good for other then saying no and keeping players unpayed for their work. Having your rep be the guy who makes money off you staying with the team is a terrible decision, and is exactly why EG had to handle this the way they did.


Grats to Puma for accepting, you deserve it.


nowhere in my post do i argue any of the shit you just responded to now.



You're trying to say they "made him" and put a lot of effort into molding him as a player.

First half of my post is responding to that.

It was a joint effort of Puma's hard work and TSL coaching staff that made him the player he is today.
you didnt respond to anything i said.


My post is responding to "they put the effort in, therefore they should keep him" attitude of your post. But you can pretend you didn't imply that all you want.
Retgery
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1229 Posts
July 22 2011 20:01 GMT
#437
If PuMa was placed in Code S, I believe he would not have taken the deal. From the Korean player’s perspective, getting into Code S is hard, and winning the GSL is even harder, thus the door of opportunity is very narrow. Experiencing the foreign Starcraft 2 scene, and seeing first-hand the impact it has on a global level probably made him think that his accomplishment in Korea is small compared to what he is capable of doing in the foreign scene

I find this a little bit funny how every Foreigner wants to get to Korea to compete in the GSL and now we have a Korean who wants to leave to pursue something greater. i wonder if other high end players feel the same way.
Fall down 7 times, stand up 8.
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
July 22 2011 20:05 GMT
#438
On July 23 2011 04:57 Hasire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:55 Condor Hero wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:53 Hasire wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:51 Condor Hero wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:48 Hasire wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:38 Condor Hero wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:35 Usagi wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:06 pStar wrote:
I feel so sorry for TSl, they basically found this guy and made him into a starcraft player. Whats even more annoying is the complete lack of respect that EG showed.

Also, that guy who was on Lo3 last night was an asshole, and did not even let Milkis put across his argument, this I feel was what EG did the whole time, with them not even approaching TSL

ESTRO made this player, he was playing there already when Idra was.
Puma would have been able to get into any korean team he wanted.

Estro made him into a pretty mediocore BW player
TSL made him a top level terran SC2 player

I think you severely underestimate the amount of time and effort coaching has in a player's performance

Korean progame coaches arent like american high school football coaches where you just see them for a 2-3 hour daily practice. they live together and its much more of a father/son relationship than some americans seem to think.


If they wanted to treat him like an asset to the team that they made, they should have treated him like that from the start. You can't just hole your players in for a rebuilding stage, sending them nowhere and not expect good players to get offers for money when you give them nothing.

If you want to keep a player, make it worth their time to stay. It's pretty widely agreed that the BW model sucked, there is no point in defending players getting screwed over in SC2 for their work just because that is how it was in BW.


Additionally, this topic is full of "You have to respect their traditions", ect. Why don't they have to respect ours, though? Puma was on US soil, without a contract, and received an offer. Hell, if a player is going overseas to somewhere that the majority of foreign teams are, maybe you should send a team rep with you?

But then again, what good is a TSL rep good for other then saying no and keeping players unpayed for their work. Having your rep be the guy who makes money off you staying with the team is a terrible decision, and is exactly why EG had to handle this the way they did.


Grats to Puma for accepting, you deserve it.


nowhere in my post do i argue any of the shit you just responded to now.



You're trying to say they "made him" and put a lot of effort into molding him as a player.

First half of my post is responding to that.

It was a joint effort of Puma's hard work and TSL coaching staff that made him the player he is today.
you didnt respond to anything i said.


My post is responding to "they put the effort in, therefore they should keep him" attitude of your post. But you can pretend you didn't imply that all you want.

Thats not my attitude at all.
Of course Puma can go wherever he wants but to pretend that hes this natural talent who didnt have any helping hands along the way is absurd.
CidO
Profile Joined June 2010
United States695 Posts
July 22 2011 20:10 GMT
#439
great read, thanks for the translation!

it's nice to hear their side of the story...
:P
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 20:16:26
July 22 2011 20:15 GMT
#440
On July 23 2011 04:38 Condor Hero wrote:
Estro made him into a pretty mediocore BW player
TSL made him a top level terran SC2 player


Mediocre BW pro = top level sc2 pro. You know who else were mediocre BW players? MC and Nestea. I'm sure Puma has improved while at TSL but saying they made him the player he is is ridiculous.
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