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On July 14 2011 03:20 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 00:48 ArcticVanguard wrote:
What happens to people who use steam? Since it has an overlay, I mean. That has me rather worried since I run SC2 from steam. Blizzard wouldn't ban people using the steam overlay I think the steam overlay doesn't effect the games rendering in non-steam games anyway Could a mod change the title to will be banned? Blizzard have specifically stated that this is against their TOS
RaidCall overlay against the TOS ?
Then, I hope that blizzard will do something against RaidCall. Oh, I forgot ... RaidCall are involved in esport ...
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"Please understand that violations of this type have a highly negative impact on the game's integrity and on other players as well"
"This decision has been reached in order to uphold the integrity of the game as a whole, and has not been taken lightly."
These are the two sentences I find most hilarious from the email response. I would LOVE to hear how Raidcall specifically has a negative impact on the game, maybe since the in game voice feature doesn't work for a lot of people, they figure anyone using an outside voice program must be 1337 h4x0rs yo!
In regards to sentence two, mass banning doesn't come off to me as a matter taken seriously, when these are clearly auto bans rather then seriously investigating people who have been reported of hacking, especially those caught admitting to it.
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Assuming Morfildur is correct, people should direct their anger toward RaidCall rather than Blizzard, or towards themself for not understanding or investigating what product they're using.
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On July 14 2011 02:00 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 01:31 noob styles wrote:On July 14 2011 01:27 Scipaeus121212 wrote:
Maybe a stupid question, but what are the "overlays"? Im not really sure what programs are dangerous and what aren't. an overlay is just an image ontop of another eg Day9 has the day9 logo covering replay lengths when hes doing the daily. the image covering the replay length is an overlay This is so horribly wrong... An overlay in this case is a DirectX/OpenGL Hook that changes the output, for example by adding additional (external) information like "who is speaking on the voice chat". It has nothing at all to do with the overlay images Day9 or other casters use. The DX/OGL Hooks plug directly into the game and can do basically anything with the output before it's rendered. Remove objects, remove textures, etc., so the situation is a lot more complex as SC2 can only detect if something is happening between it sending rendering information to the graphics card and the actual rendering, but not what exactly is happening.
This will affect screen capture programs as well, won't it?
Fraps uses DirectX hooking (it is probably whitelisted)
Dxtory?
Xsplit uses GDI instead (according to R1CH), so it won't be affected, but they plan to implement an "Add Game.." feature which could be affected.
This means you will be in a grayzone if you are streaming. They could autoban every streamer that use tools that hook OGL/DirectX and which are not in a Blizzard whitelist.
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On July 14 2011 03:36 Battleaxe wrote:
"Please understand that violations of this type have a highly negative impact on the game's integrity and on other players as well"
"This decision has been reached in order to uphold the integrity of the game as a whole, and has not been taken lightly."
These are the two sentences I find most hilarious from the email response. I would LOVE to hear how Raidcall specifically has a negative impact on the game, maybe since the in game voice feature doesn't work for a lot of people, they figure anyone using an outside voice program must be 1337 h4x0rs yo!
In regards to sentence two, mass banning doesn't come off to me as a matter taken seriously, when these are clearly auto bans rather then seriously investigating people who have been reported of hacking, especially those caught admitting to it.
It's likely they can't determine exactly what it is or what it's doing, and it's better to assume the worst, like what everyone else in the thread said. How about instead of breaking the ToS and whining when you get banned you just don't break the ToS?
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Have their been instances in other games such as WoW of Blizzard undoing bans? It's pretty obvious this is a false positive, I'd be extremely disappointed if they don't revert all these bans. It seems they whitelisted common DX hooks such as FRAPS, Steam, etc and ignored the less well known programs and classified any unknown modifications as "hacks". This would be like your anti-virus not recognizing a program and then classifying it as a virus based on that fact alone.
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On July 14 2011 03:41 R1CH wrote:
Have their been instances in other games such as WoW of Blizzard undoing bans? It's pretty obvious this is a false positive, I'd be extremely disappointed if they don't revert all these bans. It seems they whitelisted common DX hooks such as FRAPS, Steam, etc and ignored the less well known programs and classified any unknown modifications as "hacks". This would be like your anti-virus not recognizing a program and then classifying it as a virus based on that fact alone.
looks like everyone i know that got banned is gona get unbanned in 2 days.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/account-status <- checked that link to see when you're unbanned.
For me
Origination In-game Activity
Ban Type: in-game activities that violate the Terms of Use.
Expires: Friday, July 15, 2011 6:59:33 PM PDT (in 2 days, 7 hours)
Ban Reason: N/A
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I hope they'll do the same on Europe ... for now I'm still perm. banned >_<
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On July 14 2011 03:20 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 00:48 ArcticVanguard wrote:
What happens to people who use steam? Since it has an overlay, I mean. That has me rather worried since I run SC2 from steam. Blizzard wouldn't ban people using the steam overlay I think the steam overlay doesn't effect the games rendering in non-steam games anyway Could a mod change the title to will be banned? Blizzard have specifically stated that this is against their TOS Saying that Blizzard wont ban you for using steam makes no more sense than saying they wont ban people for using voice chat software.
Also, I don't see why the ToS is more relevant for this voice chat program than for any other software. I admit I haven't read it, like most people, but if it does not state something like "third party programs - that modify the game play", then for example using an antivirus is against the ToS as well.
ToS agreements and EULA's tend to be written so they basically mean "if we want to discontinue the service for any reason what so ever it is covered in the user agreement". Which ironically is why caring about EULA's and ToS agreements is generally pointless as well
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On July 14 2011 03:41 R1CH wrote:
Have their been instances in other games such as WoW of Blizzard undoing bans? It's pretty obvious this is a false positive, I'd be extremely disappointed if they don't revert all these bans. It seems they whitelisted common DX hooks such as FRAPS, Steam, etc and ignored the less well known programs and classified any unknown modifications as "hacks". This would be like your anti-virus not recognizing a program and then classifying it as a virus based on that fact alone.
This could have been just a serious backlash against the advertising that those drophacks did for hacks in general. Some of the popular hacks out use overlays for production hacking and general maphacking. I wouldn't be surprised that they just turned up the heat for a couple of weeks. Hopefully they fix anybody somehow caught in the fire by dumb luck.
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How could I prov that I'm not a hacker but a victim of a false positive ?
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On July 14 2011 01:01 CravenRaven wrote:Show nested quote + Airport security routinely harass millions of people every day in hopes of finding ONE OR TWO terrorists a day. People on TL are truly ridiculous, arguing for "freedom" over this, while ignoring everything else going on in the world. You heard it here first folks, catching terrorists and map hackers is of equal importance.
map hackers are terrorists too yo
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On July 14 2011 03:41 R1CH wrote:
Have their been instances in other games such as WoW of Blizzard undoing bans? It's pretty obvious this is a false positive, I'd be extremely disappointed if they don't revert all these bans. It seems they whitelisted common DX hooks such as FRAPS, Steam, etc and ignored the less well known programs and classified any unknown modifications as "hacks". This would be like your anti-virus not recognizing a program and then classifying it as a virus based on that fact alone.
Exactly, Blizzard can't really account for EVERY somewhat unknown program that is harmless.
I do agree that wrongfully banned people should be unbanned though but it's gonna take a while to investigate each individual case..
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On July 14 2011 03:49 Akta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 03:20 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On July 14 2011 00:48 ArcticVanguard wrote:
What happens to people who use steam? Since it has an overlay, I mean. That has me rather worried since I run SC2 from steam. Blizzard wouldn't ban people using the steam overlay I think the steam overlay doesn't effect the games rendering in non-steam games anyway Could a mod change the title to will be banned? Blizzard have specifically stated that this is against their TOS Saying that Blizzard wont ban you for using steam makes no more sense than saying they wont ban people for using voice chat software.
Not necessarily. Steam is almost universal these days for PC gamers. Creating some sort of exception for Steam interaction seems like a no brainer when designing security like Warden. For more obscure 3rd party aps, however, you'd be lucky to find any sort of acknowledgment it even exists.
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This is so lollable.
How is Blizzard supposed to keep support and keep growing when they ban their professional players and the fanbase. These are the people that will be preordering your next games.
Seriously, they can't really believe there were (from it seems like) a few thousand people including professionals all hacking the same exact way...
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On July 14 2011 03:49 Akta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 03:20 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On July 14 2011 00:48 ArcticVanguard wrote:
What happens to people who use steam? Since it has an overlay, I mean. That has me rather worried since I run SC2 from steam. Blizzard wouldn't ban people using the steam overlay I think the steam overlay doesn't effect the games rendering in non-steam games anyway Could a mod change the title to will be banned? Blizzard have specifically stated that this is against their TOS Saying that Blizzard wont ban you for using steam makes no more sense than saying they wont ban people for using voice chat software. Also, I don't see why the ToS is more relevant for this voice chat program than for any other software. I admit I haven't read it, like most people, but if it does not state something like "third party programs - that modify the game play", then for example using an antivirus is against the ToS as well. ToS agreements and EULA's tend to be written so they basically mean "if we want to discontinue the service for any reason what so ever it is covered in the user agreement". Which ironically is why caring about EULA's and ToS agreements is generally pointless as well
How does an anti-virus program modify your gameplay?
Ty rich ;p.
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Steam, FRAPS and DXTory all use page flip hooking to draw overlays exactly like Raidcall does. There are differences in the implementation but the concepts are the same.
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I would say that my account was hacked and I wasn't the one using the overlay. Maybe they'll be nicer in not perma banning you?
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The thing is programs that can be "hacks" or change online gameplay can use the same hooks as these "overlay" programs and as such should be prevented until blizzard knows exactly which can do what and then whitelist or ban them based on those results.
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On July 14 2011 04:01 timewaster wrote:
I would say that my account was hacked and I wasn't the one using the overlay. Maybe they'll be nicer in not perma banning you?
No one(very rare cases for permabans have been reported) is getting perma banned even repeated map hackers are only getting 3day bans which are really meaningless coming at a time between seasons.
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EPT
