EPTNASL Event Discussion Thread - Page 34
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henreiman
United States407 Posts
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Maliris
Northern Ireland2557 Posts
On July 10 2011 16:13 Pyo wrote: I disagree with your last statement there. Everything about what they've done screams that they don't really have a goal of long-term stability. They seem to just be trying to cash in on the popularity of SC2/E-sports right now rather than aiming to build an established event. To put it a little less cynically, if the financial backers behind NASL don't really believe that SC2/E-sports has long term sustainability, then not investing into infrastructure or production quality is certainly the way to go (gotta keep the books black at all times). Unfortunately, this is not the sort of event that the e-sports community needs/wants. Quite possible, but this doesn't change the fact that they have put too much money into the prizepot. People wonder why MLG have such a low prizepool considering how prestigious it is, but truth is all they need is enough money to get the best players to compete. To be honest it seems more like NASL was funded by someone who was ridiculously rich and had a hobbyist interest in SC2 and decided to make a league. Considering how little money was invested into production team compared to everything else, this seems like a pretty ridiculous error and is the definition of poor business sense | ||
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pieman819
Australia457 Posts
This was said so many months ago in the Q&A thread that NASL did, I guess they have improved a little but it's been so slow and minor and problems that occured then, and reoccured during the season are still occuring. | ||
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Fatta
Germany148 Posts
There seem to be quite some issues with the whole organization of this event, at least it seems from a stream viewers point of view. This whole thing feels like: "Hey tomorrow is the grand finals, what do we do now?". 1. The whole set/venue looks like no one cares. Seriously? Casters sitting in front of a black back at a black table with black booths left and right? Why are there no NASL signs, Sponsor logos, etc.. It does not take much effort to create some banners or posters to make this look much better. 2. The production quality of the stream (or the event?) is incredibly bad. The sound, camera and lighting issues have already been discussed. 3. No one seems to have a clue what they are supposed to do. People have repeatedly been not knowing if there mic was on or not, if they are on camera or not, etc. 4. The scheduling of the matches. Why are there fixed times for the matches to start? Take a look at for example some tennis tournaments, the beginning of the first match is fixed and the next match will start when the first is finished. This way you will have much less downtime, th whole event will feel much more fluent. If you have the matches at fixed times, you will need to be prepared if there is so much downtime. This does not seem to be the case here. 5. The venue seems to be not fitting. I don`t know it feels to big and not right. Rent an auditorium at a ubniversity or college, much better, closer to the audience and they will mostly already have proper lighting and maybe sound equipment. 6. Learn from other peoples mistakes. You are not the first ones to run an event like this (even if it is the first time for you), there are a lot of events that have happened before this one. 7. If something major goes wrong (like 2 hours late on the first day) explain it to the audience and apologize!, they will understand and feel like you actually care about them. In general, you need a competent director/producer if you do not have one at the moment hire one. Someone needs to be responsible for the whole stuff and be able to see when something is about to go wrong. If you want to be a professional event, get professionals to run it. There are companys out there who have done stuff like this a bazillion times already, hire them and let the run the event or at least ask for advice. They might be expensive but worth every penny. | ||
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LlamaNamedOsama
United States1900 Posts
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Sawofhackness
Afghanistan183 Posts
Sorry guys, I paid 25 for this, can't watch it, so frustratingly bad on every level. Its 100k dollars on the line not the school play, get your fingers out next time. | ||
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GreyKnight
United States4720 Posts
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Blueblister
Sweden321 Posts
The most essential to improve upon is the overall tournament organization. As seen under "Areas that need improvement" there is a large amount of issues, each one in itself not that hard to fix. Here's when experience plays a huge role. Next time, bring in people who have done this multiple times before (not just NASL season 1) and place them into key administrative positions. - Grand Finals Format If you fly over players for an whole weekend you might as well have them play a lot of matches. Double elimination (no extended series) is a good option. If your main casters are unable to cast a few games, bring in third party casters or stream them without casting, there is ways to still be able to harvest the VODs for later purchase at nasl.tv. - Group Stage Format Voted for Ro32 round robin in groups of four but please don't use that exact option. GSL type group stage is much better than round robin. A round robin will always have a few games were one of the players has much less incentive to win. This is also true for the initial group play. Avoid large round robin groups at all costs and you will have more motivated players and less no-shows. Two or three staggered GSL group stages is way better than a 10 player round robin. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On July 10 2011 15:46 jenzebubble wrote: Secondly, MLG has millions of dollars to spend, NASL does not. Moreover, I'm pretty sure if we looked at MLG's balance sheet it would look entirely different than NASL's. A large chunk, seemingly, of NASL's budget is going into their prize pool. Prize pool is likely MLG's smallest expenditure. If they are spending more than 10% of their budget on prize pool, they are doing it wrong. THIS. In many ways, the NASL feels and looks like "the player's league." A massive prize pool; a round robin format that rewards the best and most consistent performers; anyone from any server can apply, etc. They even have (had) players as casters. Using the same maps over and over for the playoffs is a perfect example of a decision designed to make things fair for players, but is absolutely horrible from a broadcasting and entertainment perspective. On paper, all this sounds like a great strategy to attract players and keep them happy. But it's asses-in-seats and customers that pay your bills at the end of the day. And the irony is, as much as players want to win money, they also want to be associated with an event that is popular, and that people enjoy and respect. I can't speak for the pro's, but it seems like most of them are playing in the NASL for the money ... not because they actually enjoy playing in it. NASL needs to rethink their priorities. I have a hard time imagining TakeSen having trouble attracting the top pro's in the world to crash on his couch next year. And all he really did was rent some decent equipment and made sandwiches for people. | ||
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mcfrog
14 Posts
On July 10 2011 20:00 Defacer wrote: THIS. In many ways, the NASL feels and looks like "the player's league." A massive prize pool; a round robin format that rewards the best and most consistent performers; anyone from any server can apply, etc. They even have (had) players as casters. Using the same maps over and over for the playoffs is a perfect example of a decision designed to make things fair for players, but is absolutely horrible from a broadcasting and entertainment perspective. On paper, all this sounds like a great strategy to attract players and keep them happy. But it's asses-in-seats and customers that pay your bills at the end of the day. And the irony is, as much as players want to win money, they also want to be associated with an event that is popular, and that people enjoy and respect. I can't speak for the pro's, but it seems like most of them are playing in the NASL for the money ... not because they actually enjoy playing in it. NASL needs to rethink their priorities. I have a hard time imagining TakeSen having trouble attracting the top pro's in the world to crash on his couch next year. And all he really did was rent some decent equipment and made sandwiches for people. NASL's problems have little to do with the prizepot and everything to do with the planning behind it. When Homestory cup's production out a better overall viewing experience then you something is very wrong. | ||
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ziomek
Poland18 Posts
 he should beat MC | ||
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cYaN
Norway3322 Posts
As for the finals. 12 bo3's and then semis spread over 3 days is not enough. Especially when each day is 10 hours long? That's mlg length practically and I think mlg could show more games. I realize 32 players would be a big expense jump, so that's maybe not possible. 4 groups bo3 round robin seems to be leading the poll... That will give 24 bo3s instead of 8 in ro16 i think (+ possible tiebreakers). So that's a bit much. I'd prefer dual tournament style maybe... that would be 20 bo3s which seems to doable although probably have to spread ro16 out into day2 as well. Please dear God, no waiting screen. Please please please. Whenever I tune in, I want to see something. Games, commentators talking, interviews (live and premade of players, commentators, staff, sponsors, spectators, read: filler if needed). All the other stuff in production etc I think is fairly obvious/been discussed. The format changes are imo needed so badly. Hope I don't sound too harsh. gl with the last day and season 2^^ | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
Having fixed maps for a BoX series is fine. Having the exact same maps for a whole round of a tournament is not - especially if they're Xel'Naga Caverns/Crossfire/Shattered Temple. Either you fix the first map and then have the loser choose, or you make an effort to assemble a varied and interesting set. Nobody wants to watch 8 Bo3 going 2-0 on XC and Crossfire. Secondly, why in the world are Backwater Gulch and Typhon Peaks in the map pool for the finals? Having them in the regular season was bad enough, in the finals it's just painful. If you want to be original and use maps nobody else loses, at least pick some out of the iCCup pool or something - at least some measure of testing in high-level play was performed on those. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
I don't have to explain why it really grinds my gears that I missed tastosis and at least half of the event just because I fell asleep. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On July 10 2011 15:36 babylon wrote: I think it's more along the lines that NASL, like MLG, should get a second chance. They certainly improved their production quality today, at least? MLG Dallas' flaws were, to an extent, beyond their control though. NASL just has very poor production and very poor planning. The biggest issue I've had as a spectator is the downtime. I'm not shallow enough to turn an event off because of it's production, especially when there are world class players like Sen and MC on the stage delivering amazing games, but the downtime is way too much and one of the main thngs keeping me from enjoying this event. Also, MLG rebounded from Dallas with perhaps the best Sc2 event ever. Hopefully NASL will learn from their flaws and come back stronger next season. | ||
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Nekemancer
United States73 Posts
On July 10 2011 22:28 TheSubtleArt wrote: MLG Dallas' flaws were, to an extent, beyond their control though. NASL just has very poor production and very poor planning. The biggest issue I've had as a spectator is the downtime. I'm not shallow enough to turn an event off because of it's production, especially when there are world class players like Sen and MC on the stage delivering amazing games, but the downtime is way too much and one of the main thngs keeping me from enjoying this event. Also, MLG rebounded from Dallas with perhaps the best Sc2 event ever. Hopefully NASL will learn from their flaws and come back stronger next season. NASL has proven through the previous weeks and months that it is up to taking the feedback and turning it around. *EVERYTHING* is better on their standard group play stuff (minus a few issues with the weirdness of the final week of games) than it was at the start. And not just a bit better, but remarkably better. This finals has a lot of flaws, but I really think NASL will do nothing but learn from the experience and be awesome next two seasons. I mean, just compare a week one video to... pretty much anything in the last month. There's still flaws, but they have come a very very long way. | ||
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Rococo
United States331 Posts
On July 10 2011 20:00 Defacer wrote: Using the same maps over and over for the playoffs is a perfect example of a decision designed to make things fair for players, but is absolutely horrible from a broadcasting and entertainment perspective. Not allowing map eliminations and including maps not normally used in tournament play like Backwater Gulch is most definitely not fair to the players. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On July 10 2011 15:34 Ocedic wrote: NASL was a success if only because July got to enjoy In and Out Burger: Link: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/ilfwu/my_friends_and_i_had_the_pleasure_of_eating_with/ EDIT: I took out the images because they were too large. You can see the images at the Reddit link. haha, in and out burgers are the best :D Anyway, as a stream spectator I enjoyed day 2, my only problem is the tourney format/maps, but it's okay, I still enjoyed the stream, and I enjoyed the cute blonde asking random questions too :D | ||
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bertu
Brazil871 Posts
On July 10 2011 20:00 Defacer wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 10 2011 15:46 jenzebubble wrote: Secondly, MLG has millions of dollars to spend, NASL does not. Moreover, I'm pretty sure if we looked at MLG's balance sheet it would look entirely different than NASL's. A large chunk, seemingly, of NASL's budget is going into their prize pool. Prize pool is likely MLG's smallest expenditure. If they are spending more than 10% of their budget on prize pool, they are doing it wrong. THIS. In many ways, the NASL feels and looks like "the player's league." A massive prize pool; a round robin format that rewards the best and most consistent performers; anyone from any server can apply, etc. They even have (had) players as casters. Using the same maps over and over for the playoffs is a perfect example of a decision designed to make things fair for players, but is absolutely horrible from a broadcasting and entertainment perspective. On paper, all this sounds like a great strategy to attract players and keep them happy. But it's asses-in-seats and customers that pay your bills at the end of the day. And the irony is, as much as players want to win money, they also want to be associated with an event that is popular, and that people enjoy and respect. I can't speak for the pro's, but it seems like most of them are playing in the NASL for the money ... not because they actually enjoy playing in it. NASL needs to rethink their priorities. I have a hard time imagining TakeSen having trouble attracting the top pro's in the world to crash on his couch next year. And all he really did was rent some decent equipment and made sandwiches for people. This quote made me remember when Naniwa (a player known for hating losses and that became visibly upset after losing a finals in the most chill tournament ever) was eliminated and said in game "finally I am done with NASL". | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On July 11 2011 00:21 DontGiveUp wrote: This quote made me remember when Naniwa (a player known for hating losses and that became visibly upset after losing a finals in the most chill tournament ever) was eliminated and said in game "finally I am done with NASL". That was more of an issue with latency and playing at bad hours, which are beyond the control of the NASL (they're based in North America, so it's only fair they schedule matches accordingly) | ||
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