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On July 10 2011 08:35 Veritask wrote:
This is the schedule listed on TL for tomorrow:
"NASL Grand Finals Day 3
- Opening Ceremony
- Musical Act and Entertainment
- 3rd Place Match
- Finals
- Award Ceremony"
So I guess this means the semis are tonight? It would be nice if this information could be posted somewhere.
The real question is, will it be "Voidrays" or "When I'm Grandmaster"?
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My biggest issue with this tournament other than the technical difficulties is that its a single elimination bo3. That just blows my mind, such a huge tournament claiming to be all about the "story" and players are only given a maximum of 3 games to prove themselves? (tbh i think that claim is total bs now having seen the finals format)
Wheres the comeback story? Like when select fought his way through the losers bracket at mlg.
Wheres the multiple games? If you want stories you need the widest interaction of players the most people playing each other, thats how rivalry's are built. Think about the story you might of got if ret had of managed to win the loser bracket and then have to face Puma again somewhere down the track. I know i'd be as pumped as i could be to watch that.
How can you possibly claim to have a story in a bo3? This is the smallest series out there that any professional tournament in a elimination bracket could consider. At best theres an opportunity for a small comeback ie going 1 down then winning two games. Think about the Naniwa vs thorzain games where he was on the verge of winning the whole TSL and thorzain came back from what seemed like the dead to take it out, now theres a story you can share with others.
The biggest problem i see though is that so far (please someone prove me wrong, maybe i missed something) the NASL seem to be in denial about everything they have done wrong. (what the fuck NASL, how are you going to improve if you don't admit you fucked up.) We're all adults here, stuff sometimes doesn't go as you might of planned in your head so when it doesn't man up and take responsibility for it so that you can actively improve.
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On July 10 2011 08:38 chaokel wrote:
My biggest issue with this tournament other than the technical difficulties is that its a single elimination bo3. That just blows my mind, such a huge tournament claiming to be all about the "story" and players are only given a maximum of 3 games to prove themselves? (tbh i think that claim is total bs now having seen the finals format)
Wheres the comeback story? Like when select fought his way through the losers bracket at mlg.
Wheres the multiple games? If you want stories you need the widest interaction of players the most people playing each other, thats how rivalry's are built. Think about the story you might of got if ret had of managed to win the loser bracket and then have to face Puma again somewhere down the track. I know i'd be as pumped as i could be to watch that.
How can you possibly claim to have a story in a bo3? This is the smallest series out there that any professional tournament in a elimination bracket could consider. At best theres an opportunity for a small comeback ie going 1 down then winning two games. Think about the Naniwa vs thorzain games where he was on the verge of winning the whole TSL and thorzain came back from what seemed like the dead to take it out, now theres a story you can share with others.
The biggest problem i see though is that so far (please someone prove me wrong, maybe i missed something) the NASL seem to be in denial about everything they have done wrong. (what the fuck NASL, how are you going to improve if you don't admit you fucked up.) We're all adults here, stuff sometimes doesn't go as you might of planned in your head so when it doesn't man up and take responsibility for it so that you can actively improve.
I agree with that assessment. The Bo3 single elimination setup combined with the enormous downtime in between matches are probably the two biggest issues the NASL organizers need to work on.
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The mics that they are using tend to clip a lot. They need to turn down mic gain and up the output volume.
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On July 10 2011 08:47 Xation wrote:
The mics that they are using tend to clip a lot. They need to turn down mic gain and up the output volume.
I agree, unfortunately, that's way too much complicated technical jargon for the NASL sound crew to understand.
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An hour break between each match is ridiculous. No need to see the super long player intros every game, just another waste of time. Even with all that downtime, it appears you still have trouble getting the players set up in their booths before the game.
The interviews with Lindsay were funny, better than staring at an overlay or looking at crowd shots for 30 min. or more. Sure she doesn't know anything about SC2 whatsoever, but it was amusing at least. Excellent!
Sound problems are really bad, so bad... it's actually quite sad.
Music? What's with the opera music and suddenly gets replaced with starcraft soundtrack? Or the MK walk-out music that gets quickly muted? These sound issues have been so strange and redundant, it's obvious that you have absolute amateurs working back there.
Did I enjoy the games and casting? Yes, but it's painful to see so many glaring problems that could have been easily remedied with a more professional/experienced staff.
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Just have the interviews by the casters, they are sitting there already and know way more about the game than any of the interviewers we've had so far.
Also, way too much downtime in between games. I don't know if it's technical issues or what, but almost an hour in between games, are you serious? The hype videos right before the games are too long, and honestly not that interesting (personally, I don't like SC2 highlight reels, you kind of have to watch the entire build up to really be amazed by what actually happens imo)
Also, the music in between games kind of sucks, I don't mind SC:BW music because it's not bad, but play something else. Homestory Cup had some great music in between matches, maybe borrow their playlist.
Other than that it's been pretty good, I mean there are the little technical things, but those are really the only things I've dislike so far.
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There's a difference between constructive adult criticism and whining like children, it's the first season obviously there's going to be problems they're going to run into and it's our jobs to obviously let them know to improve. But the manner half of you guys are doing it in is ridiculous, act like adults.
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60,000 viewers to 38,000
Sure is NASL in here.
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-_________-
Does it make up for it at all? No.
Does it reinforce the stereotype that the gamers are a low common denominator that can be easily appeased by blatant sex appeal? Yes.
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On July 10 2011 09:02 Kaileycost wrote:
There's a difference between constructive adult criticism and whining like children, it's the first season obviously there's going to be problems they're going to run into and it's our jobs to obviously let them know to improve. But the manner half of you guys are doing it in is ridiculous, act like adults.
WE must support esports!!! buy nasl season passes
I think a lot of NASL problems are simply incompetence not really a monetary / learning thing. I mean they had autocam spectating games. It seems just very badly managed, hence the only real criticism is get new managers / leaders behind things. You could spend days pointing out details, but its less about the details and more the overall painting. IT's just not good, in any way. None of the aspects of NASL production are working, from sound, casters, settup, stage, etc. It's all just like a badly ran project. It's hard to say exactly what is wrong in this case because it's everything.
There needs to be "clever" settup, and "clever" booth design. Instead it's simply tacking the banner on the front of the booth or w.e. It just feels sloppy and amateur in every possible way. They have had months to learn and prepare for this. It's an utter failure and is only propped up by the Sc2 community.
It's not whining or crying to say most every aspect of NASL has been bad, its the cold hard truth. They really need to re-evaluate who is even running the show and managing things. My personal constructive criticism would be burn down the house and rebuild it in season 2 from the ground up. They seem to have the money, and the community is propping them up even though its a disaster, they really need to just fire and rehire a whole new staff or something drastic.
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On July 10 2011 01:18 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 01:14 mango_destroyer wrote:On July 10 2011 01:12 Xeris wrote:On July 10 2011 01:10 pieman819 wrote:On July 10 2011 01:08 Xeris wrote:On July 10 2011 01:06 pieman819 wrote:On July 10 2011 00:57 Xeris wrote:On July 10 2011 00:35 aristarchus wrote:On July 10 2011 00:21 Xeris wrote:On July 10 2011 00:15 Nimic wrote:
[quote]
That's not what he said, though. He is talking about the time it takes for every player to set up in the booth. If they could do that while the first match is still going on, there would be much less downtime.
Though I'm not sure that's why you had so much downtime. Honestly, I have no idea why. The only real solution to that is having dedicated computers for each player. They tried that at Blizzcon and still got a lot of downtime. There's always downtime. There's downtime at MLG too. No, 4 computers would be enough for a substantial speed increase. It means that the players for match 3 set up their equipment during match 2. That means less transition time. (Of course, that assumes that the player equipment setup was a limiting factor, and that there weren't other production issues that required a long wait anyway.) Yes, there will still be downtime, but it'd be substantially reduced. (Having 4 booths might not at all be reasonable expense-wise, but if you don't think it would give some speedup, you're not understanding something. And as long as it's just one match being played at a time, you don't really need a computer per player, just the 4 booths plus whatever warmup computers are needed off stage.) 4 computers wouldn't help. How do you envision this working? 2 sets of booths? What are we supposed to roll the first set of booths off the stage and roll on the next set right after so we can start immediately? Are we supposed to have 2 stages, each with booths so that we can just cut to the next stage? Do you have any idea how much it would cost to get a venue big enough and build 2 stages just for the purpose? 4 computers with 1 set of booths? We're supposed to take the first set of computers out of the booths (that takes probably 5-10 minutes), and set up another set of computers in the booths that have the next players' settings already set up? Do you have any idea how long that process would take. It would take even longer than what we do. Did you watch Blizzcon? Were you there? Because they tried that and it didn't work. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Af7oD.jpg) Why not 4 booths on the one stage, seems to work great for GSL every day of the week Because GSL is a multi-million dollar company that can afford to do that? 2 more booths than the 2 you already have is going to break your bank? doesn't sound like a sustainable business venture GSL can afford to put 1+ million into prize pool alone in a year. We're not at the level where we can do that yet, sorry. He was talking about two additional cabinets. Getting 2 more booths would be about $10,000 in additional cost. Those things are expensive and money doesn't grow on trees and we don't have unlimited money.
If the tournament had the 4 booths, wouldn't have it been plausible to do the tournament over 2 days instead of 3? Wouldn't the money you'd save from having to rent the facility/hire the staff for a 3rd day outweigh the cost of the booths?
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CallMeTasteless Nick Plott
In about an hour @artosis and myself will be casting the MOTHER FUCKING SEMI FINALS OF NASL #NASL #OMG #CAPSLOCK
I could have sworn it already was an hour, now we wait another Q.Q
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On July 10 2011 08:38 chaokel wrote:
The biggest problem i see though is that so far (please someone prove me wrong, maybe i missed something) the NASL seem to be in denial about everything they have done wrong. (what the fuck NASL, how are you going to improve if you don't admit you fucked up.) We're all adults here, stuff sometimes doesn't go as you might of planned in your head so when it doesn't man up and take responsibility for it so that you can actively improve.
That is completly throwing me off as well. The posts Xeris made about the problems were all about finding excuses (We don't have that much money, There are downtimes in every tournament) and then finally pointing the finger at the players and make them responsible for the downtime due to setup problems.
So Darkforce had to install some crazy mouse drivers? Ok, but why let him install these drivers 30sec before the game is supposed to start and not like 30min earlier. I don't get it.
I know it's sometimes hard to admit that things went wrong, especially when the whole community is yelling at you. But imho this would be the only way to gain back some of the respect lost during the Finals.
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Every time I tune in to NASL finals there's a fucking break or "intro" of some sort. I give up.
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So much potential... nooooooooooo 
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Things like this shouldn't happen either..
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God NASL is so greedy.
Day long event so that they can spam commericals and milk as much money out of it as possible.
So not only are they the worst tournament so far, but they are making the most money out of it too.
This is literally the beginning of viewership abuse in SC2. Minimum quality in the tournament for maximum profit.
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On July 10 2011 09:16 hifriend wrote:
Every time I tune in to NASL finals there's a fucking break or "intro" of some sort. I give up.
same here
Dont want to be negative towards the people that contribute so much to the community
imho theres way to many problems to be selling HD passes or anything, it is ball breaking to watch.
Knock off $20k off the prize pool and hire 1 pro to sort your shit out. or get Takesen involved <3
HSC inbetween games parts were fun to watch and you werent stuck looking at a wrong up coming match screen or day9 signing autographs in a distance...
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/incontrolk.jpg/)
