On July 05 2011 09:27 Flonomenalz wrote: So us zergs (I'm guilty of this too) complained about toss deathball QQ rage rage OP OP in the same way you terrans are complaining now. But many zergs are now flat out abusing the immobility of the toss army.
Give the game time kids. Blord/Corruptor/Infestor takes AGES to get the right amount of units. Abuse the mid-early late game period with drops, and there's almost no way a zerg trying to tech to this composition can stop you without investing into mutas. It is hard, I definitely agree.
Destiny showed us you can get it around the 15min Mark with 3/3 upgrades T_T. Also the Death Ball ended due to FG on the death ball.
On July 05 2011 09:30 Dommk wrote: First it was Protoss with the "Honest look at Colossus/Voidrays/Forcefields" threads
But no one thinks they are even OP at all. Especially Colossus, there was a lot of complaint about that unit but I doubt you would find anyone who thinks it is even remotely OP now.
Though I do agree Broodlord Infestor can get ridiculous (eg Lalush vs HuK) it is important to recognize that time usually "heals all wounds" (so to speak).
Besides, David Kim has already said that the balance team is already looking into it, Blizzard has done a great job with patches and recognizing what is and isn't imbalanced. If the community actually was a barometer for what was balanced or not then Force Fields, Colossus and Voidrays would have already been nerfed to smithereens and Toss would be lying some where in a gutter right now.
Protoss don't go VR/Colossus/Void off 3 base because it can be fungaled, meaning patch 1.3 worked.
If they removed the fungal buff, they would be back to doing it.
Talking about the units individually. Not a specific comp. Hardly think it would be any more viable than it is now, people weren't using Infestors before at all. Though I agree old infestors were too weak, new might be too strong, but no point going on a witch hunt now, give it some time.
On July 05 2011 08:24 Whitewing wrote: Curious question: can infestors off creep outrun seeker missiles?
testing it now!
Can you also check whether or not burrowing while a missile is chasing you causes it to stop chasing? Just wondering as all. :D
no, burrow doesn't cancel it. and it looks like infestors are a little faster (off creep) than the missile so if the zerg reacts in time it shouldn't ever hit.
It's still a viable tactic to use when the zerg engages though, use hunter seeker missile and the zerg either has to pull back with his infestors, possibly losing broodlords in the process, or stay and fight and lose infestors.
I have experimented with HSM a bit recently and I honestly think it's bad, you need ALOT of energy on your raven before you can even cast it and it's AOE is ridiculously small, it kills like 5 units at best, there is absolutely no need to run away from it you only need to select the unit that is targeted and pull it away. I don't even think a HSM kills a broodlord if it hits and it only AOE effects 2 if I'm not mistaken, completely useless spell imo
I don't think moving out a single infestor that's targetted by a hsm is as easy as you make it out to me, but I haven't played in a while so I won't argue against you. I just feel a lot of people are dismissing strategies a bit too easily in this thread. I've even seen people posting that drops are bad because if a zerg plays perfectly they won't work. Fun fact: nobody plays perfectly.If a Terran played perfectly, nobody would be using banelings because of this. If a Zerg played perfectly nobody would be using Siege Tanks because of this. I feel like Terran need to experiment a lot more with units other then marines, medivacs and siege tanks.
Please for the love of god zerg players need to stop telling terran that we have to experiment more. I have been f****** around with HSM for a few days recently and I know plenty of other terran who tried out ravens in different matchups (HSM specifically) I'm sick and tired of zerg players thinking they know anything about terran.
HSM gets outranged by NP why would anyone go raven vs infestors when they get simply outranged? Think -> post please.
Zergs were doing bad Zergs experimented more Zergs started doing better
Seems to melike you aren't looking for a solution, you already made up your mind.
On July 05 2011 09:34 MonsieurGrimm wrote: so what do those of you who think it's OP want? serious question, what do you think would allow you to deal with this?
Stopping tanks from auto focusing broodlings would be a good start, so that way you don't get steamrolled by banelings when you have to unsiege.
What if they changed it so PDD affects brood lords?
Wouldn't solve it because the zerg can just back off then and engage somwhere else.
Tanks not auto focusing broodlings just needs to be default settings and it's a good start imo
On July 05 2011 08:24 Whitewing wrote: Curious question: can infestors off creep outrun seeker missiles?
testing it now!
Can you also check whether or not burrowing while a missile is chasing you causes it to stop chasing? Just wondering as all. :D
no, burrow doesn't cancel it. and it looks like infestors are a little faster (off creep) than the missile so if the zerg reacts in time it shouldn't ever hit.
It's still a viable tactic to use when the zerg engages though, use hunter seeker missile and the zerg either has to pull back with his infestors, possibly losing broodlords in the process, or stay and fight and lose infestors.
I have experimented with HSM a bit recently and I honestly think it's bad, you need ALOT of energy on your raven before you can even cast it and it's AOE is ridiculously small, it kills like 5 units at best, there is absolutely no need to run away from it you only need to select the unit that is targeted and pull it away. I don't even think a HSM kills a broodlord if it hits and it only AOE effects 2 if I'm not mistaken, completely useless spell imo
I don't think moving out a single infestor that's targetted by a hsm is as easy as you make it out to me, but I haven't played in a while so I won't argue against you. I just feel a lot of people are dismissing strategies a bit too easily in this thread. I've even seen people posting that drops are bad because if a zerg plays perfectly they won't work. Fun fact: nobody plays perfectly.If a Terran played perfectly, nobody would be using banelings because of this. If a Zerg played perfectly nobody would be using Siege Tanks because of this. I feel like Terran need to experiment a lot more with units other then marines, medivacs and siege tanks.
Please for the love of god zerg players need to stop telling terran that we have to experiment more. I have been f****** around with HSM for a few days recently and I know plenty of other terran who tried out ravens in different matchups (HSM specifically) I'm sick and tired of zerg players thinking they know anything about terran.
HSM gets outranged by NP why would anyone go raven vs infestors when they get simply outranged? Think -> post please.
Zergs were doing bad Zergs experimented more Zergs started doing better
Seems to melike you aren't looking for a solution, you already made up your mind.
This is a joke right? Zerg got buffed, that's the reason they are doing better, nothing else.
On July 05 2011 09:30 Dommk wrote: First it was Protoss with the "Honest look at Colossus/Voidrays/Forcefields" threads
But no one thinks they are even OP at all. Especially Colossus, there was a lot of complaint about that unit but I doubt you would find anyone who thinks it is even remotely OP now.
Though I do agree Broodlord Infestor can get ridiculous (eg Lalush vs HuK) it is important to recognize that time usually "heals all wounds" (so to speak).
Besides, David Kim has already said that the balance team is already looking into it, Blizzard has done a great job with patches and recognizing what is and isn't imbalanced. If the community actually was a barometer for what was balanced or not then Force Fields, Colossus and Voidrays would have already been nerfed to smithereens and Toss would be lying some where in a gutter right now.
Protoss don't go VR/Colossus/Void off 3 base because it can be fungaled, meaning patch 1.3 worked.
If they removed the fungal buff, they would be back to doing it.
Talking about the units individually. Not a specific comp. Hardly think it would be any more viable than it is now, people weren't using Infestors before at all. Though I agree old infestors were too weak, new might be too strong, but no point going on a witch hunt now, give it some time.
Personally I think FG should not be able to kill anything like Plague, which left units with 1hp. Also take away the hold(The issue with this is PvZ where Blink is Imba with out FG).
On July 05 2011 09:34 MonsieurGrimm wrote: so what do those of you who think it's OP want? serious question, what do you think would allow you to deal with this?
Stopping tanks from aut focusing broodlings would be a good start, so that way you don't get steamrolled by banelings when you have to unsiege.
On July 05 2011 09:36 Skwid1g wrote: I don't get how Terran players can say "it's unbeatable" or anything similar when Terrans are still taking up all top 4 spots in the GSL.
^^^^^^Retard
Because this has anything to do with broodlord infestor being unstoppable for terran, right?
^^^^^Retard
If it was unbeatable Terrans would be losing to Zergs. Please use your rather small brain to comprehend this. TvZ is still a T favored match-up.
No it's not terran favored at all. Currently in GSL the win ratio is at around 50%, at MLG and NASL group stages, terran got dominated. how can you say it's terran favored when in every single league zerg has a higher win ratio right now?
And we are talking about lategame tvz not tvz in general, how do you not understand this?
Zergs would just turtle heavily until infestor broodlord if that was the case, how do you not understand this?
TvZ should favor the Zerg lategame, it makes no sense if Terrans have a much stronger early game and an equal late game, that's the definition of overpowered.
In fact, your comment alone pretty much shows that Terrans have a 50% or higher win-rate against Zergs (although if you take TOP Ts vs. TOP Zs the terrans have a much higher win-rate, but whatever) which means that if you want Infestors nerfed you're going to need to change something else to make the match-up balanced. Personally, I dislike the infestor as it's a rather boring unit that has become more of a "damage dealer" spell caster rather than a support/root spellcaster to help banelings hit, so I wouldn't mind things changing.
On July 05 2011 09:34 MonsieurGrimm wrote: so what do those of you who think it's OP want? serious question, what do you think would allow you to deal with this?
Stopping tanks from auto focusing broodlings would be a good start, so that way you don't get steamrolled by banelings when you have to unsiege.
What if they changed it so PDD affects brood lords?
Wouldn't solve it because the zerg can just back off then and engage somwhere else.
Tanks not auto focusing broodlings just needs to be default settings and it's a good start imo
Hmmm... maybe completely aside of a buff, what if terrans found a suitable alternative to tanks? Would that solve the problem or part of it?
On July 05 2011 09:34 MonsieurGrimm wrote: so what do those of you who think it's OP want? serious question, what do you think would allow you to deal with this?
Stopping tanks from aut focusing broodlings would be a good start, so that way you don't get steamrolled by banelings when you have to unsiege.
On July 05 2011 09:36 Skwid1g wrote: I don't get how Terran players can say "it's unbeatable" or anything similar when Terrans are still taking up all top 4 spots in the GSL.
^^^^^^Retard
Because this has anything to do with broodlord infestor being unstoppable for terran, right?
^^^^^Retard
If it was unbeatable Terrans would be losing to Zergs. Please use your rather small brain to comprehend this. TvZ is still a T favored match-up.
No it's not terran favored at all. Currently in GSL the win ratio is at around 50%, at MLG and NASL group stages, terran got dominated. how can you say it's terran favored when in every single league zerg has a higher win ratio right now?
And we are talking about lategame tvz not tvz in general, how do you not understand this?
Zergs would just turtle heavily until infestor broodlord if that was the case, how do you not understand this?
TvZ should favor the Zerg lategame, it makes no sense if Terrans have a much stronger early game and an equal late game, that's the definition of overpowered.
Ok then, I guess you don't want the game to be balanced properly, let's just buff all terran early game units and zerg lategame units, because at the end terran is stronger early game and zerg is stronger lategame, so it's perfectly fine.
did it perhaps ever cross your mind that some of us terran dont want to cheese or all in vs zerg every game and play a proper macro game all the way up to tier 3 units (not saying terran is going bcs or something like that, but you know what I mean, lategame...)? Not every terran is a chees all inner. But it's frustrating when you want to play a macro game but you know that as soon as your opponent gets BL / Infestor you can't win. Doesnt affect cheesers or all inners, but it affects players like me because I like long macro games.
And korean terrans/zergs are not using this style yet, so you can't tell if they are succesful with it or not, we will have to wait, but I am almost certain that when destiny can do it, losira will do it twice as good.
On July 05 2011 09:34 MonsieurGrimm wrote: so what do those of you who think it's OP want? serious question, what do you think would allow you to deal with this?
Stopping tanks from auto focusing broodlings would be a good start, so that way you don't get steamrolled by banelings when you have to unsiege.
What if they changed it so PDD affects brood lords?
Wouldn't solve it because the zerg can just back off then and engage somwhere else.
Tanks not auto focusing broodlings just needs to be default settings and it's a good start imo
Hmmm... maybe completely aside of a buff, what if terrans found a suitable alternative to tanks? Would that solve the problem or part of it?
For me the biggest problem is the fact that you have to unsiege and lose all your splash damage vs mass ling baneling and just get steamrolled, if terran had something like a collossus that doesnt have friendly fire it would be way easier to deal with it, still not easy but way easier.
Well if he loses to bunker rushes then it's due to his own mistakes, bunker rushes aren't unstoppable even if executed perfectly. Infestor Broodlord however CAN NOT be stopped if executed perfectly.
And in 5 years people will look at nesta and laugh at his games today, not to take anything away from this guy but sc2 is still in it's early stages, even nestea is a scrub compared to the best players in 5 years, people will still improve so much more in this game, trust me.
I don't know what you are trying to smoke. So what happens if terran micro their units perfectly then. Just go explore unit tester maps. Marine vikings tank of the same cost can handle infestors broods. Not to mention, bio mech is more mobile than infestors broods. If you are forced to engage their broods, it just means that one of the following, 1 You have already lost your map control and forced to engage at your most vulnerable mining base. 2 It's a map thats relatively "thin", full of chokes, where you cant avoid the broods in the middle of map and just aim for the zerg's expansion. That means it's your own fault for not trying to make use of the map layout to your advantage in the early-mid game.
If you only look at infestors by itself, they are the strongest when compared to other spellcasters. If you look at the synergy with units of their race, they are definitely 1 of the weakest. Spellcaster units need to be covered by ranged units, and zerg is lacking in that aspect except BLs. One thing not explored much yet is spamming of spines + infestors to defend a choke. Spines force units to clump during engagement which you can easily fungal under the protection of spine range.
Broodlords/infestor/corruptor combination is overrated. If they get a large enough of that deathball, which your forces are not big enough to handle it, it's definitely your own mistake. Zerg deathball is not as easy to obtain as toss'. To win games using broods, zerg must have a large enough economic advantage OR put heavy pressure constantly while transitioning into broods so that the opponent cant even afford to get air tech or risk getting rolled by the zerg ground army. Just look at some of the gsl games, nowadays players lose games more by transitioning too fast into broods. Broods are more immobile than mech -_- They are only good against players who are relatively passive (western scene), but only tend to be so-so against aggressive players (koreans).
Infestors-first tech is quite fragile. You can't really get that many infestors on 2 bases gas. All terran need to do is do try to waste infestors energy or snipe them by using small amt. of forces. Again this is why infestors-first are not that prefered in the korean scene because of how aggressive the opponents are. Right now in ZvP, if you get infestors, you need to get a critical mass to be useful due to reduced fungal duration. They require work 3 bases to work better due to ability to churn out more ground army to support the infestors. Always try to trade ground army but retain all the infestors. Right now ZvP is so retarded due to the fact that zerg can only afford to tech switch and upgrade for different techs on 3 bases in a match-up where unit comp. counter vs unit comp. counter is so important, while toss tech switch is so much more effective with their shared ground upgrades. Assuming twilight and robo are staple buildings, toss is only 1 building away from ht or colo tech. Whenever i use infestors, i get the feeling if only fungal still have their old fungal duration, so i can just produce 2 or so for a supporting role, instead of committing heavily into that tech and getting smashed by smart toss who go straight into ht tech when they scouted them. Though 80% of toss on ladder have really poor game understanding and cry infestors OP after their robo tech get crushed.
On July 05 2011 09:34 MonsieurGrimm wrote: so what do those of you who think it's OP want? serious question, what do you think would allow you to deal with this?
Stopping tanks from aut focusing broodlings would be a good start, so that way you don't get steamrolled by banelings when you have to unsiege.
On July 05 2011 09:36 Skwid1g wrote: I don't get how Terran players can say "it's unbeatable" or anything similar when Terrans are still taking up all top 4 spots in the GSL.
^^^^^^Retard
Because this has anything to do with broodlord infestor being unstoppable for terran, right?
^^^^^Retard
If it was unbeatable Terrans would be losing to Zergs. Please use your rather small brain to comprehend this. TvZ is still a T favored match-up.
No it's not terran favored at all. Currently in GSL the win ratio is at around 50%, at MLG and NASL group stages, terran got dominated. how can you say it's terran favored when in every single league zerg has a higher win ratio right now?
And we are talking about lategame tvz not tvz in general, how do you not understand this?
Zergs would just turtle heavily until infestor broodlord if that was the case, how do you not understand this?
TvZ should favor the Zerg lategame, it makes no sense if Terrans have a much stronger early game and an equal late game, that's the definition of overpowered.
Ok then, I guess you don't want the game to be balanced properly, let's just buff all terran early game units and zerg lategame units, because at the end terran is stronger early game and zerg is stronger lategame, so it's perfectly fine.
did it perhaps ever cross your mind that some of us terran dont want to cheese or all in vs zerg every game and play a proper macro game all the way up to tier 3 units (not saying terran is going bcs or something like that, but you know what I mean, lategame...)? Not every terran is a chees all inner. But it's frustrating when you want to play a macro game but you know that as soon as your opponent gets BL / Infestor you can't win. Doesnt affect cheesers or all inners, but it affects players like me because I like long macro games.
And korean terran are not using this style yet, so you can't tell if they are succesful with it or not, we will have to wait, but I am almost certain that when destiny can do it, losira will do it twice as good.
Like I said, you would have to change something else if you nerf the infestor. That's the point.
But you can play late-game against Zerg, you're just at a disadvantage. Just like in BW. Like many have said, Zerg t3 is extremely immobile and prone to getting dropped, so it's far from an "unbeatable" combination as you're claiming. It's been seen and dismantled several times in the GSL already.
Oh, and as for the comment about Zerg being "unbeatable" with perfect play, it's actually the other way around. If a terran micro'd perfectly (which is just as unlikely as a perfect Zerg) banelings and infestors would be useless.
On July 05 2011 08:24 Whitewing wrote: Curious question: can infestors off creep outrun seeker missiles?
testing it now!
Can you also check whether or not burrowing while a missile is chasing you causes it to stop chasing? Just wondering as all. :D
no, burrow doesn't cancel it. and it looks like infestors are a little faster (off creep) than the missile so if the zerg reacts in time it shouldn't ever hit.
It's still a viable tactic to use when the zerg engages though, use hunter seeker missile and the zerg either has to pull back with his infestors, possibly losing broodlords in the process, or stay and fight and lose infestors.
I have experimented with HSM a bit recently and I honestly think it's bad, you need ALOT of energy on your raven before you can even cast it and it's AOE is ridiculously small, it kills like 5 units at best, there is absolutely no need to run away from it you only need to select the unit that is targeted and pull it away. I don't even think a HSM kills a broodlord if it hits and it only AOE effects 2 if I'm not mistaken, completely useless spell imo
I don't think moving out a single infestor that's targetted by a hsm is as easy as you make it out to me, but I haven't played in a while so I won't argue against you. I just feel a lot of people are dismissing strategies a bit too easily in this thread. I've even seen people posting that drops are bad because if a zerg plays perfectly they won't work. Fun fact: nobody plays perfectly.If a Terran played perfectly, nobody would be using banelings because of this. If a Zerg played perfectly nobody would be using Siege Tanks because of this. I feel like Terran need to experiment a lot more with units other then marines, medivacs and siege tanks.
Please for the love of god zerg players need to stop telling terran that we have to experiment more. I have been f****** around with HSM for a few days recently and I know plenty of other terran who tried out ravens in different matchups (HSM specifically) I'm sick and tired of zerg players thinking they know anything about terran.
HSM gets outranged by NP why would anyone go raven vs infestors when they get simply outranged? Think -> post please.
Zergs were doing bad Zergs experimented more Zergs started doing better
Seems to melike you aren't looking for a solution, you already made up your mind.
I'm not sure why zergs are pretending like they as a race have learned to deal with everything the hard way. Zergs have whined a ton, they have been buffed numerous times, while the other races have been nerfed.
Then when terrans start having problems, zergs just tell them to suck it up like they did. Unbelievable.
There is a huge difference. Zergs were actually losing when they were complaining and it was a lasting issue, not one people have sprung up all of a sudden that we haven't seen in pro play much yet. Terrans are complaining while they're dominating every league with 1-4 spots occupied by them in the GSLST. I won't say that the infestor isn't overpowered, but you can't complain about it until there is a lot more experimentation done by top Terrans.
With that being said, I wish Blizzard would slow down on the balancing, I hate when they nerf/buff something since it's been useless/overpowered for 2-3 months, as there were many builds that were amazing in BW that got figured out and countered with time.
On July 05 2011 08:24 Whitewing wrote: Curious question: can infestors off creep outrun seeker missiles?
testing it now!
Can you also check whether or not burrowing while a missile is chasing you causes it to stop chasing? Just wondering as all. :D
no, burrow doesn't cancel it. and it looks like infestors are a little faster (off creep) than the missile so if the zerg reacts in time it shouldn't ever hit.
It's still a viable tactic to use when the zerg engages though, use hunter seeker missile and the zerg either has to pull back with his infestors, possibly losing broodlords in the process, or stay and fight and lose infestors.
I have experimented with HSM a bit recently and I honestly think it's bad, you need ALOT of energy on your raven before you can even cast it and it's AOE is ridiculously small, it kills like 5 units at best, there is absolutely no need to run away from it you only need to select the unit that is targeted and pull it away. I don't even think a HSM kills a broodlord if it hits and it only AOE effects 2 if I'm not mistaken, completely useless spell imo
I don't think moving out a single infestor that's targetted by a hsm is as easy as you make it out to me, but I haven't played in a while so I won't argue against you. I just feel a lot of people are dismissing strategies a bit too easily in this thread. I've even seen people posting that drops are bad because if a zerg plays perfectly they won't work. Fun fact: nobody plays perfectly.If a Terran played perfectly, nobody would be using banelings because of this. If a Zerg played perfectly nobody would be using Siege Tanks because of this. I feel like Terran need to experiment a lot more with units other then marines, medivacs and siege tanks.
Please for the love of god zerg players need to stop telling terran that we have to experiment more. I have been f****** around with HSM for a few days recently and I know plenty of other terran who tried out ravens in different matchups (HSM specifically) I'm sick and tired of zerg players thinking they know anything about terran.
HSM gets outranged by NP why would anyone go raven vs infestors when they get simply outranged? Think -> post please.
Zergs were doing bad Zergs experimented more Zergs started doing better
Seems to melike you aren't looking for a solution, you already made up your mind.
I'm not sure why zergs are pretending like they as a race have learned to deal with everything the hard way. Zergs have whined a ton, they have been buffed numerous times, while the other races have been nerfed.
Then when terrans start having problems, zergs just tell them to suck it up like they did. Unbelievable.
On July 05 2011 09:34 MonsieurGrimm wrote: so what do those of you who think it's OP want? serious question, what do you think would allow you to deal with this?
Stopping tanks from auto focusing broodlings would be a good start, so that way you don't get steamrolled by banelings when you have to unsiege.
What if they changed it so PDD affects brood lords?
Wouldn't solve it because the zerg can just back off then and engage somwhere else.
Tanks not auto focusing broodlings just needs to be default settings and it's a good start imo
Hmmm... maybe completely aside of a buff, what if terrans found a suitable alternative to tanks? Would that solve the problem or part of it?
For me the biggest problem is the fact that you have to unsiege and lose all your splash damage vs mass ling baneling and just get steamrolled, if terran had something like a collossus that doesnt have friendly fire it would be way easier to deal with it, still not easy but way easier.
Planetary fortresses have splash, no FF, and cant be affected by Fungal or NP (and with building armour, theyre not really affected by broodlings/zerglings/infested terrans either). Only problems are that they have less range.
On July 05 2011 09:47 iPBioOrMech wrote: I love how Zergs say ZvT is there best MU, and Protoss say PvT is there best MU, and most terrans say TvT is the best MU. Makes you think..
Lol. All terrans I know says this, including myself. Makes me kinda sad...
Well if he loses to bunker rushes then it's due to his own mistakes, bunker rushes aren't unstoppable even if executed perfectly. Infestor Broodlord however CAN NOT be stopped if executed perfectly.
And in 5 years people will look at nesta and laugh at his games today, not to take anything away from this guy but sc2 is still in it's early stages, even nestea is a scrub compared to the best players in 5 years, people will still improve so much more in this game, trust me.
I don't know what you are trying to smoke. So what happens if terran micro their units perfectly then. Just go explore unit tester maps. Marine vikings tank of the same cost can handle infestors broods.
I honestly stopped reading after this because this is both wrong.
A: Marine viking tank cannot beat infestor broodlord baneling/zergling, it's just not possible, don't even know how you could possibly miss micro the zerg units to lose such a fight B: You say bio mech (tanks!!!!) is more mobile than infestor broodlord, ling baneling? Really? I mean are you even in silver league when you say stuff like this?
On July 05 2011 09:34 MonsieurGrimm wrote: so what do those of you who think it's OP want? serious question, what do you think would allow you to deal with this?
Stopping tanks from auto focusing broodlings would be a good start, so that way you don't get steamrolled by banelings when you have to unsiege.
What if they changed it so PDD affects brood lords?
Wouldn't solve it because the zerg can just back off then and engage somwhere else.
Tanks not auto focusing broodlings just needs to be default settings and it's a good start imo
Hmmm... maybe completely aside of a buff, what if terrans found a suitable alternative to tanks? Would that solve the problem or part of it?
For me the biggest problem is the fact that you have to unsiege and lose all your splash damage vs mass ling baneling and just get steamrolled, if terran had something like a collossus that doesnt have friendly fire it would be way easier to deal with it, still not easy but way easier.
Planetary fortresses have splash, no FF, and cant be affected by Fungal or NP (and with building armour, theyre not really affected by broodlings/zerglings/infested terrans either). Only problems are that they have less range.
Also they can't fucking move. hmmmm....
Yeah might be a problem if you ever plan on attacking the zerg, also it's pretty hard to cover the whole centre of tal darim altar with planetary fortresses, you need alot of money and it takes really long to build command centers + planetaries. cant see it happening in a normal game. (and no mvp vs. dimaga has nothing to do with broodlord infestor baneling)
Well if he loses to bunker rushes then it's due to his own mistakes, bunker rushes aren't unstoppable even if executed perfectly. Infestor Broodlord however CAN NOT be stopped if executed perfectly.
And in 5 years people will look at nesta and laugh at his games today, not to take anything away from this guy but sc2 is still in it's early stages, even nestea is a scrub compared to the best players in 5 years, people will still improve so much more in this game, trust me.
I don't know what you are trying to smoke. So what happens if terran micro their units perfectly then. Just go explore unit tester maps. Marine vikings tank of the same cost can handle infestors broods.
I honestly stopped reading after this because this is both wrong.
A: Marine viking tank cannot beat infestor broodlord baneling/zergling, it's just not possible, don't even know how you could possibly miss micro the zerg units to lose such a fight B: You say bio mech (tanks!!!!) is more mobile than infestor broodlord, ling baneling? Really? I mean are you even in silver league when you say stuff like this?
On July 05 2011 09:34 MonsieurGrimm wrote: so what do those of you who think it's OP want? serious question, what do you think would allow you to deal with this?
Stopping tanks from auto focusing broodlings would be a good start, so that way you don't get steamrolled by banelings when you have to unsiege.
What if they changed it so PDD affects brood lords?
Wouldn't solve it because the zerg can just back off then and engage somwhere else.
Tanks not auto focusing broodlings just needs to be default settings and it's a good start imo
Hmmm... maybe completely aside of a buff, what if terrans found a suitable alternative to tanks? Would that solve the problem or part of it?
For me the biggest problem is the fact that you have to unsiege and lose all your splash damage vs mass ling baneling and just get steamrolled, if terran had something like a collossus that doesnt have friendly fire it would be way easier to deal with it, still not easy but way easier.
Planetary fortresses have splash, no FF, and cant be affected by Fungal or NP (and with building armour, theyre not really affected by broodlings/zerglings/infested terrans either). Only problems are that they have less range.
Also they can't fucking move. hmmmm....
Yeah might be a problem if you ever plan on attacking the zerg, also it's pretty hard to cover the whole of tal darim altar with planetary fortresses, you need alot of money and it takes really long to build command centers + planetaries. cant see it happening in a normal game. (and no mvp vs. dimaga has nothing to do with broodlord infestor baneling)
Yes. With perfect micro you can easily beat that combination. If a terran had perfect micro they would be unbeatable.
I think the best fix is to reduced infestor damage to armored units. Basically bring infestor back to the original.
All benefits: longer ensared time-a lot better versus blinkstalker which is extremely strong right now(the stop movment effect is a lot more important
still good versus marines=longer snare+baneling=win
makes viking not die like paper planes when fungaled(seriously comon, 2-3 fungals and all viking dies)
I think zerg has discovered many many vways to defeat void ray/colossus camp. Infestors were important in pure ling/bling counter but other counters still works.
EPT
