On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Playoff seeding>regular season seeding. ace would be the next to get the spot not naniwa. see how this can be completely subjective? anyone whose run an organization, event of any kind knows how important it is to have certain rules set in place or else chaos ensues.
Offcourse anything can be subjective. With how the quilification to the Grand final is obtained within the League I'de say it would be reasonable to say that regular season > play off seeding. The regular season can be consideres as the "winners bracket" and the playoff as the "loosing bracket" where the people who did not place high enough got a second chance.
I do agree that any competetive organization needs rules to come off as professional, and to ensure that "public order" (for lack of a better word). But if those rules are to carry wight they need be crystal clear, and the organization needs to follow them to the letter. When they ignore them on one occasion it opens up to this whole discussion...
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Playoff seeding>regular season seeding. ace would be the next to get the spot not naniwa. see how this can be completely subjective? anyone whose run an organization, event of any kind knows how important it is to have certain rules set in place or else chaos ensues.
Offcourse anything can be subjective. With how the quilification to the Grand final is obtained within the League I'de say it would be reasonable to say that regular season > play off seeding. The regular season can be consideres as the "winners bracket" and the playoff as the "loosing bracket" where the people who did not place high enough got a second chance.
I do agree that any competetive organization needs rules to come off as professional, and to ensure that "public order" (for lack of a better word). But if those rules are to carry wight they need be crystal clear, and the organization needs to follow them to the letter. When they ignore them on one occasion it opens up to this whole discussion...
I would heavily disagree. The playoffs were the higher ranked players from the regular season competing for a spot in the finals. Therefore, seedings from the playoffs are more meaningful because they're essentially the stars, or the players whose performed the best overall, of the league.
This question isn't targeted at you (Hansibot), but I wonder how many people putting this effort to bash the NASL are actually NASL haters or Naniwa riders. Would there be such an outcry if a less popular player were involved?
Futhermore, I think its mind boggling that the ACE would be the next in line if they used the playoff seedings and people are still calling for naniwa to take the place.
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Playoff seeding>regular season seeding. ace would be the next to get the spot not naniwa. see how this can be completely subjective? anyone whose run an organization, event of any kind knows how important it is to have certain rules set in place or else chaos ensues.
Offcourse anything can be subjective. With how the quilification to the Grand final is obtained within the League I'de say it would be reasonable to say that regular season > play off seeding. The regular season can be consideres as the "winners bracket" and the playoff as the "loosing bracket" where the people who did not place high enough got a second chance.
I do agree that any competetive organization needs rules to come off as professional, and to ensure that "public order" (for lack of a better word). But if those rules are to carry wight they need be crystal clear, and the organization needs to follow them to the letter. When they ignore them on one occasion it opens up to this whole discussion...
I would heavily disagree. The playoffs were the higher ranked players from the regular season competing for a spot in the finals. Therefore, seedings from the playoffs are more meaningful because they're essentially the stars, or the players whose performed the best overall, of the league.
This question isn't targeted at you (Hansibot), but I wonder how many people putting this effort to bash the NASL are actually NASL haters or Naniwa riders. Would there be such an outcry if a less popular player were involved?
Futhermore, I think its mind boggling that the ACE would be the next in line if they used the playoff seedings and people are still calling for naniwa to take the place.
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
Points 1 and 2 would have sufficed, while Point 4 is irrelevant to Naniwa's question.
Point 3 is absolutely unnecessary. If I were NASL's boss and I'm trying to make it as professional as possible, I would fire Xeris straightaway for making such statements. But then I recall NASL releasing that video detailing Painuser not showing up and I am reminded that NASL is not that kind of organization.
Seriously Xeris, you are running NASL now, not some amateur online league. You should not have done that.
For god's sake people could you please stop spiting bullshit like this . First it was clearly stated how the rules work whether you like it or not . Second Naniwa had to fight in groups of 10 players for 2 spots and then he could play in the playoffs for an other chance at a spot when he finished third in his group . He had his chances to qualifiy and failed . I don't know why he would even post about this without reading the rules or he just wanted to start some drama in which he successed . Coming second in 1000+ people open qualifiers with a lot of top foreigners in it and some of the top koreans in my opinion is a lot harder then what Naniwa had to do to qualify .
If i was in Xeris's position i would not only not consider Naniwa for a replacement of Strelok i would ban him from participating in future seasons as well unless he publicly apologizes to NASL . The guy clearly has no respect for this tournament and why would he want to participate in this " shitty league " anyway . Even if Boxer himself was the one calling NASL a shitty league even thought he was invited to play for 50 000 $ he should still be banned . Of course Boxer would never say that even if the organizers have some troubles runing the league , because he respects e-sports and doesn't see it only as a way to make money - the meaning of a true professonal .
I don't mind players trash talking each other , but when you insult the people who invited you to play in a tournament as big as the NASL i don't think he should expect to be invited to play again in this tournament and should be banned from it otherwise the tournament would indeed seem unprofessional even thought Naniwa fans might disagree .
I think this thread needs streaker moderation with all the unjustified NASL bashing .
You didn't read my post properly. I don't have any issues with alive replacing Strelok. NASL is just following the rules.
My complaint was Point 3 of Xeris' post. Let me give you an example: Last year incontrol criticized MLG's extended series, lack of chairs etc. Did any MLG personnel snap back at incontrol? As far as I know, no one did. Because it would be very unprofessional.
Your point is Naniwa is unprofessional for insulting NASL. Perhaps he was but NASL/Xeris should taken the high road and not appear so petty.
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Playoff seeding>regular season seeding. ace would be the next to get the spot not naniwa. see how this can be completely subjective? anyone whose run an organization, event of any kind knows how important it is to have certain rules set in place or else chaos ensues.
Offcourse anything can be subjective. With how the quilification to the Grand final is obtained within the League I'de say it would be reasonable to say that regular season > play off seeding. The regular season can be consideres as the "winners bracket" and the playoff as the "loosing bracket" where the people who did not place high enough got a second chance.
I do agree that any competetive organization needs rules to come off as professional, and to ensure that "public order" (for lack of a better word). But if those rules are to carry wight they need be crystal clear, and the organization needs to follow them to the letter. When they ignore them on one occasion it opens up to this whole discussion...
I would heavily disagree. The playoffs were the higher ranked players from the regular season competing for a spot in the finals. Therefore, seedings from the playoffs are more meaningful because they're essentially the stars, or the players whose performed the best overall, of the league.
This question isn't targeted at you (Hansibot), but I wonder how many people putting this effort to bash the NASL are actually NASL haters or Naniwa riders. Would there be such an outcry if a less popular player were involved?
Futhermore, I think its mind boggling that the ACE would be the next in line if they used the playoff seedings and people are still calling for naniwa to take the place.
I'll admit I havn't really been following NASL, so i'm not 100% certain, but from what I can tell in the regular season there were 5 groups of 10 people, and the top 2 people in each group qualified directly to the Grand Final. Of the 40 people who didn't qualify the top 20 gets a second chance in the playoff, where they will play in 5 devisions of 4, with nr. 1 in each decision qualifying for the grand final.
If my understanding above is correct I'd say that regualr season is > playoffs. Especially seeing as the winenrs from the play-off are seeded 11-15 in the Grand final, and the people who qualified directly from the reguarler season are seeded 1-10.
I can't speak for anyone ells, but I'm personally not a NASL hater nor am I a fan. NASL is just to long for my taste. I havn't actually browsed their site untill today. That might be why it couldnt hold my attention as every time I watched a stream they were showing a final, but the final wasn't the end of the season ;S. I'm also not a Naniwa rider(fan?). The only thing I remember about him is him chocking in the finals of the homestory cup agains Huk ;D.
The reason why I'd want naniwa to take the spot, is that in my head it's only logical that the grand-final spot is kept with-in the devision of the player who forfeited the spot.
On July 03 2011 06:11 Bobster wrote: Didn't expect the mods to be so lenient towards the obvious trolls in here. TL usually has better standards of moderation. It's a bit disappointing.
Don't be silly. TL doesn't mod IPL or NASL hate.
For that alone I hope Ret gets raped by puma or alive. No offense Ret, you're a great player, but the organization that makes a giant post about how you finished top seed in this "amazing, great,important" tournament and hype hype hype and then allows this shit to happen on that tournament's threads....bs.
Coundown to how fast I get warned for this post starts now.
I also want to restate to people who are not reading thoroughly, that from what I gathered from reading this thread is that ACE is the playoffs replacement for Strelok.
So even if NASL changed the rules, Naniwa wouldn't be going unless ACE said no.
Why Naniwa is upset when he isn't even a contender for the spot is beyond me, ESPECIALLY when he stated that he was happy to be done with the NASL. Whine much?
On July 03 2011 01:15 Naniwa wrote: why is he replacing strelok instead of the person who came third in the group? Me.
1) It's been in our rules from the start that the 2nd place of the Open Tournament would have the first backup spot if a player couldn't make it.
2) If aLive had declined the invite, we would have invited the 2nd place finishers in the playoff brackets according to seeding: which would have been: Ace, Naniwa, KiWiKaKi, NaDa, and IdrA.
3) Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
4) White-Ra I think as a B1 VISA, he's proven several times he can get to the USA. BRATOK has B1 VISA too (he showed us a scan of it), which is why we accepted him into the league. Strelok was our risk player, and we were assured he could make it here... it just sucks ~_~
Points 1 and 2 would have sufficed, while Point 4 is irrelevant to Naniwa's question.
Point 3 is absolutely unnecessary. If I were NASL's boss and I'm trying to make it as professional as possible, I would fire Xeris straightaway for making such statements. But then I recall NASL releasing that video detailing Painuser not showing up and I am reminded that NASL is not that kind of organization.
Seriously Xeris, you are running NASL now, not some amateur online league. You should not have done that.
For god's sake people could you please stop spiting bullshit like this . First it was clearly stated how the rules work whether you like it or not . Second Naniwa had to fight in groups of 10 players for 2 spots and then he could play in the playoffs for an other chance at a spot when he finished third in his group . He had his chances to qualifiy and failed . I don't know why he would even post about this without reading the rules or he just wanted to start some drama in which he successed . Coming second in 1000+ people open qualifiers with a lot of top foreigners in it and some of the top koreans in my opinion is a lot harder then what Naniwa had to do to qualify .
If i was in Xeris's position i would not only not consider Naniwa for a replacement of Strelok i would ban him from participating in future seasons as well unless he publicly apologizes to NASL . The guy clearly has no respect for this tournament and why would he want to participate in this " shitty league " anyway . Even if Boxer himself was the one calling NASL a shitty league even thought he was invited to play for 50 000 $ he should still be banned . Of course Boxer would never say that even if the organizers have some troubles runing the league , because he respects e-sports and doesn't see it only as a way to make money - the meaning of a true professonal .
I don't mind players trash talking each other , but when you insult the people who invited you to play in a tournament as big as the NASL i don't think he should expect to be invited to play again in this tournament and should be banned from it otherwise the tournament would indeed seem unprofessional even thought Naniwa fans might disagree .
I think this thread needs streaker moderation with all the unjustified NASL bashing .
You didn't read my post properly. I don't have any issues with alive replacing Strelok. NASL is just following the rules.
My complaint was Point 3 of Xeris' post. Let me give you an example: Last year incontrol criticized MLG's extended series, lack of chairs etc. Did any MLG personnel snap back at incontrol? As far as I know, no one did. Because it would be very unprofessional.
Your point is Naniwa is unprofessional for insulting NASL. Perhaps he was but NASL/Xeris should taken the high road and not appear so petty.
There're differences between constructive criticizing (the rules are not good, not enough chair), and outright insulting (shitty league overall).
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Playoff seeding>regular season seeding. ace would be the next to get the spot not naniwa. see how this can be completely subjective? anyone whose run an organization, event of any kind knows how important it is to have certain rules set in place or else chaos ensues.
Offcourse anything can be subjective. With how the quilification to the Grand final is obtained within the League I'de say it would be reasonable to say that regular season > play off seeding. The regular season can be consideres as the "winners bracket" and the playoff as the "loosing bracket" where the people who did not place high enough got a second chance.
I do agree that any competetive organization needs rules to come off as professional, and to ensure that "public order" (for lack of a better word). But if those rules are to carry wight they need be crystal clear, and the organization needs to follow them to the letter. When they ignore them on one occasion it opens up to this whole discussion...
I would heavily disagree. The playoffs were the higher ranked players from the regular season competing for a spot in the finals. Therefore, seedings from the playoffs are more meaningful because they're essentially the stars, or the players whose performed the best overall, of the league.
This question isn't targeted at you (Hansibot), but I wonder how many people putting this effort to bash the NASL are actually NASL haters or Naniwa riders. Would there be such an outcry if a less popular player were involved?
Futhermore, I think its mind boggling that the ACE would be the next in line if they used the playoff seedings and people are still calling for naniwa to take the place.
I'll admit I havn't really been following NASL, so i'm not 100% certain, but from what I can tell in the regular season there were 5 groups of 10 people, and the top 2 people in each group qualified directly to the Grand Final. Of the 40 people who didn't qualify the top 20 gets a second chance in the playoff, where they will play in 5 devisions of 4, with nr. 1 in each decision qualifying for the grand final.
If my understanding above is correct I'd say that regualr season is > playoffs. Especially seeing as the winenrs from the play-off are seeded 11-15 in the Grand final, and the people who qualified directly from the reguarler season are seeded 1-10.
I'm also not 100% sure but I think youre description is accurate. However, Because the winners of the playoffs are seeded 11-15th, I felt that the next person in line, I guess that would be 16th place, would be the next most deserving. Since they were actually able to make the playoffs but get edged out. I believe the next person in line was Ace, and then Naniwa.
I'm actually a nani fan myself but like others I got annoyed by the trolling in this thread.
Btw Naniwa rider = a blind fan who "rides" naniwas every move - right or wrong. Rider is more of a basketball terminology i guess =p
On July 03 2011 05:55 DarKFoRcE wrote: People also forget that i eliminated naniwa in the playoffs, i would personally find it to be kind of a joke to have to play him again after that... (admittedly, i'd rather play naniwa than alive, but still..) Sure there are questionable things about the NASL, but in this case the rules seem pretty clear and were known in advance, so i dont get the complaining.
Either way, I would be hesitant to invite you because you've publicly said "thank god I'm done with NASL" and called us a shitty league. Think your actions have no consequences?
This is the reason I don't watch NASL, you're a joke as an organization.
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Playoff seeding>regular season seeding. ace would be the next to get the spot not naniwa. see how this can be completely subjective? anyone whose run an organization, event of any kind knows how important it is to have certain rules set in place or else chaos ensues.
Offcourse anything can be subjective. With how the quilification to the Grand final is obtained within the League I'de say it would be reasonable to say that regular season > play off seeding. The regular season can be consideres as the "winners bracket" and the playoff as the "loosing bracket" where the people who did not place high enough got a second chance.
I do agree that any competetive organization needs rules to come off as professional, and to ensure that "public order" (for lack of a better word). But if those rules are to carry wight they need be crystal clear, and the organization needs to follow them to the letter. When they ignore them on one occasion it opens up to this whole discussion...
I would heavily disagree. The playoffs were the higher ranked players from the regular season competing for a spot in the finals. Therefore, seedings from the playoffs are more meaningful because they're essentially the stars, or the players whose performed the best overall, of the league.
This question isn't targeted at you (Hansibot), but I wonder how many people putting this effort to bash the NASL are actually NASL haters or Naniwa riders. Would there be such an outcry if a less popular player were involved?
Futhermore, I think its mind boggling that the ACE would be the next in line if they used the playoff seedings and people are still calling for naniwa to take the place.
I'll admit I havn't really been following NASL, so i'm not 100% certain, but from what I can tell in the regular season there were 5 groups of 10 people, and the top 2 people in each group qualified directly to the Grand Final. Of the 40 people who didn't qualify the top 20 gets a second chance in the playoff, where they will play in 5 devisions of 4, with nr. 1 in each decision qualifying for the grand final.
If my understanding above is correct I'd say that regualr season is > playoffs. Especially seeing as the winenrs from the play-off are seeded 11-15 in the Grand final, and the people who qualified directly from the reguarler season are seeded 1-10.
I'm also not 100% sure but I think youre description is accurate. However, Because the winners of the playoffs are seeded 11-15th, I felt that the next person in line, I guess that would be 16th place, would be the next most deserving. Since they were actually able to make the playoffs but get edged out. I believe the next person in line was Ace, and then Naniwa.
I'm actually a nani fan myself but like others I got annoyed by the trolling in this thread.
Btw Naniwa rider = a blind fan who "rides" naniwas every move - right or wrong. Rider is more of a basketball terminology i guess =p
He'd only get that spot if Alive+Ace both declined... so he wasn't ever going to get it either way
On July 03 2011 05:39 Hansibot wrote: Having read the entire thread I still feel like the spot should go to Naniwa.
I know people are saying that NASL are just following the rules, though I've been unable to find them myself. The only thing I could find about the format was from the NASL FAQ "At the end of the season the top two in each season will qualify to be flown to our live-finals."... which won't hold true now, since only 1 person from division 3 will be going...
But anyway's the rules really doesn't carry much weight with me, seing as NASL broke their own rules at the start of the season by inviting Strelok. And having rules which can easily be interpreted to mean 2 very different things, really doesn't do much to promote the league as proffesional.
Making a player from the open bracket the first pick for a Grand final spot, which under normal cuircomstance would be "reserved" to players of regular seasons seems wierd to me.
I think it would be more reasonable to "disquallify" Strelok from the current season, and remove all his games played from the stats, and then invite whoever would be placed second Division 3.
Wow you people.
If it was done the other way, as in the replacement spot was given to someone from the regular season, it would go to ACE NOT NANIWA. Plus, Naniwa denounced the NASL, and will not be competing next season.
Also, once again, Ace would be next in line, not Naniwa.
So you still think that Naniwa should get the spot even though Ace did better then him? You did read the whole thread right? That's some bias right there.
People sometimes >.>
Plus, in your reasoning that if Strelok was removed, and Naniwa would finish second then, if it was another player in his spot (Strelok's) Naniwa would have still lost that match since you know, he didn't bother to show up.
Considering all the efforts everyone involved put to get him a visa and the amount of time they had, it's very clear that the ones who deserve to be denounced here are in the US immigration departement (or whatever it's called). It is absolutely ridiculous that honest people have to wait MONTHS just to get a damn visa in this day and age.
EPT
