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On June 24 2011 00:04 Gingerninja wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 23:55 lorkac wrote:On June 23 2011 23:42 Gingerninja wrote:
All I know, is that I live in Japan right now... So does my Friend. I come from Europe, He comes from Canada.. I can't play SC2 against him, either online or offline, despite living close enough I could probably hit his front door with a book from my balcony. LAN would solve that problem, so would Region free online. Blizzard aren't providing either, and it can't be to keep the online experience good for people, because I get better connection from here to Europe than I do from the UK to Europe. So that excuse is total bollocks too. Is Blizzard's choice to not have LAN a good idea? Maybe, maybe not. That's subjective. Is Blizzard crazy for worrying about piracy? No they're not. I wish they were harsher on pirates through punishment (financial punishment) instead of making their game more secure. But that's me personally, I'm not Blizzard. I'm not the one shelling out the money to make a game. I'm just the consumer. I'm just a consumer, and my enjoyment of the product is being totally stopped dead in it's tracks by blizzards stance on that issue, in what is an industry standard feature not being present. Sure they have every right to worry about piracy, but as a legit customer (for every blizzard game I own.. every steam game, every console game.. I don't even use an R4 card or w/e the hell it's called on the DS all my games are legit. ) I reserve the right to be annoyed when a feature is denied to me because someone else is stealing. Not my problem, I paid you my money, yet I can't play the "Multiplayer" with a friend, who lives next to me. No amount of sales talk can sidestep that fact. Me (a legit customer) and my friend (another legit customer) cannot play the "Multiplayer" option together. Either Online or Offline.
nation is bombed by terrorist.
airport security goes up.
Innocent passenger is annoyed by heightened security.
Is the fault on the airport for adapting to cultural norms, or is the fault on the terrorist for changing cultural norms?
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I guess this is slightly understandable but is it as bad as they say? =o
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On June 24 2011 00:12 Treemonkeys wrote:
It doesn't matter how much money Blizzard has overall. Starcraft 2 has to be profitable by itself for them to continue developing it while being responsible to their investors. "Blizzard has enough money" is a foolish argument. They aren't going to start developing out of charity because they make a ton of money off of WoW.
Blizzard having enough money matters significantly.Do you think the bussiness model for a small indie company is the same for blizzard...please . With money you can make more of it (and potentially lose) My family runs a deli, we give free coffee to all our customers, we'll even bring it straight to the good customers without asking. Its an extra cost to our store and there is no reason for us to do it, but it keeps customers happy and they in turn keep coming to our store even if our prices are quite high. 20 years ago there was no way our store could of done this it would of cost us too much, even though it would of been something we would of loved to do. Blizzard is in a position to be able to do things like this with they're company, they choose not to and thats they're choice but, you can only gauge your customers for so long before they get sick of it, especially when the product and service is mediocre. SC2,WOW are all replaceable.
take a look at IKEA they have TONS of services that "lose" there company money yet they are still one of the most successful companies out there.
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I actually never thought about that. Makes more sense to me now, but I still don't think we should suffer for other peoples crimes.
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On June 24 2011 00:23 splinter9 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 00:12 Treemonkeys wrote:
It doesn't matter how much money Blizzard has overall. Starcraft 2 has to be profitable by itself for them to continue developing it while being responsible to their investors. "Blizzard has enough money" is a foolish argument. They aren't going to start developing out of charity because they make a ton of money off of WoW. Blizzard having enough money matters significantly.Do you think the bussiness model for a small indie company is the same for blizzard...please . With money you can make more of it (and potentially lose) My family runs a deli, we give free coffee to all our customers, we'll even bring it straight to the good customers without asking. Its an extra cost to our store and there is no reason for us to do it, but it keeps customers happy and they in turn keep coming to our store even if our prices are quite high. 20 years ago there was no way our store could of done this it would of cost us too much, even though it would of been something we would of loved to do. Blizzard is in a position to be able to do things like this with they're company, they choose not to and thats they're choice but, you can only gauge your customers for so long before they get sick of it, especially when the product and service is mediocre. SC2,WOW are all replaceable. take a look at IKEA they have TONS of services that "lose" there company money yet they are still one of the most successful companies out there.
Well Blizzard took the stand that LAN would just be too costly to them due to piracy. Instead, everyone is just going to have to deal with B.NET 2.0 lag and without having cross server. I would love to have LAN and have lagless offline tournaments, but the problem is that having LAN in Blizzards eyes gives up too much for too little in return.
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On June 24 2011 00:28 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 00:23 splinter9 wrote:On June 24 2011 00:12 Treemonkeys wrote:
It doesn't matter how much money Blizzard has overall. Starcraft 2 has to be profitable by itself for them to continue developing it while being responsible to their investors. "Blizzard has enough money" is a foolish argument. They aren't going to start developing out of charity because they make a ton of money off of WoW. Blizzard having enough money matters significantly.Do you think the bussiness model for a small indie company is the same for blizzard...please . With money you can make more of it (and potentially lose) My family runs a deli, we give free coffee to all our customers, we'll even bring it straight to the good customers without asking. Its an extra cost to our store and there is no reason for us to do it, but it keeps customers happy and they in turn keep coming to our store even if our prices are quite high. 20 years ago there was no way our store could of done this it would of cost us too much, even though it would of been something we would of loved to do. Blizzard is in a position to be able to do things like this with they're company, they choose not to and thats they're choice but, you can only gauge your customers for so long before they get sick of it, especially when the product and service is mediocre. SC2,WOW are all replaceable. take a look at IKEA they have TONS of services that "lose" there company money yet they are still one of the most successful companies out there. Well Blizzard took the stand that LAN would just be too costly to them due to piracy. Instead, everyone is just going to have to deal with B.NET 2.0 lag and without having cross server. I would love to have LAN and have lagless offline tournaments, but the problem is that having LAN in Blizzards eyes gives up too much for too little in return.
Its fair blizzard took that stance cause it would be a healthy bit of coin they are losing. I just think there are other place you can skrimp and save on. Especially when LAN was one of the big reasons the preceding game was so successful .
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On June 24 2011 00:21 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 00:14 Tyree wrote:A company should only fear piracy if they are producing bad products. So let me get this straight, if you make a quality product less people will pirate it? Its the other way around Look at various torrent sites ( i know you know them) and see what the most popular games and movies are pirated, it is usually high profile games that cost millions to make. The most popular game to get a N64 emulator for are OoT and Mario 64, how many people do you think tried to snag a Superman 64 rom? Only the few demented people who wanted to see just how horrible it is. I agree that it is sad we cant have LAN, but the reasoning makes perfect sense. My point is, if the product is good enough, people will buy it. A lot of people might download it, don't get me wrong, but if they were ever going to buy the game, they would likely do so even if they downloaded it. If they would never have bought the game no matter, then you've just reached out to one more customer, which *might* buy it, but in the least(assuming the product is good) have a positive attitude towards the game/company when talking about it. So yes, a good product might be downloaded more, but that's not really something to fear, while a bad one has a good reason to fear it.
The problem with the logic "They wouldn't buy it anyway" is that the only reason people have the thinking of "I won't buy this game I'm playing" is because pirate culture both A.) Exists and B.) is not punished harshly enough.
If I were Blizzard, I'd not be scared to pirate games and simply sue every person who downloaded the game, every website that tried posting the game up for downloading. I would then hire hackers to create viruses that destroys and erases hard drives and put those up as free downloads on torrent sites so that people who do download get viruses that harm the entire computer maliciously. I would infest every single torrent site with as many viruses as I can to make it so harmful and dangerous to download "free" content that no one would download anymore.
I would be more aggressive, less compromising, and less friendly than Blizzard is because my personality believes that if you punish people for doing something wrong, in time they will stop doing it en mass.
But I'm not Blizzard. Blizzard would rather try nicer fixes like no LAN than simply spreading viruses, malwares and hack accounts.
Because of Blizzard's lax punishment system--people are willing to say "I don't want to buy this game because I'm going to pirate it anyway." Why? Because the punishment for pirating is almost zero.
Edit:
When I said that "If I were Blizzard, I'd not be scared to pirate games and simply sue every person who downloaded the game, every website that tried posting the game up for downloading." what I meant was that I would sue them, not for profit, but for punishment.
I would force them to give everything they have. Every shirt, DVD, Game, savings, their bed, their bed frame, their posters, the cans in their recycling bin, etc...
The point of the sue would not be to recoup losses, it would be to punish stealing. Punish.
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If I were Blizzard, I'd not be scared to pirate games and simply sue every person who downloaded the game, every website that tried posting the game up for downloading. I would then hire hackers to create viruses that destroys and erases hard drives and put those up as free downloads on torrent sites so that people who do download get viruses that harm the entire computer maliciously. I would infest every single torrent site with as many viruses as I can to make it so harmful and dangerous to download "free" content that no one would download anymore.
This is very illigal.
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On June 24 2011 00:31 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 00:21 Zarahtra wrote:On June 24 2011 00:14 Tyree wrote:A company should only fear piracy if they are producing bad products. So let me get this straight, if you make a quality product less people will pirate it? Its the other way around Look at various torrent sites ( i know you know them) and see what the most popular games and movies are pirated, it is usually high profile games that cost millions to make. The most popular game to get a N64 emulator for are OoT and Mario 64, how many people do you think tried to snag a Superman 64 rom? Only the few demented people who wanted to see just how horrible it is. I agree that it is sad we cant have LAN, but the reasoning makes perfect sense. My point is, if the product is good enough, people will buy it. A lot of people might download it, don't get me wrong, but if they were ever going to buy the game, they would likely do so even if they downloaded it. If they would never have bought the game no matter, then you've just reached out to one more customer, which *might* buy it, but in the least(assuming the product is good) have a positive attitude towards the game/company when talking about it. So yes, a good product might be downloaded more, but that's not really something to fear, while a bad one has a good reason to fear it. The problem with the logic "They wouldn't buy it anyway" is that the only reason people have the thinking of "I won't buy this game I'm playing" is because pirate culture both A.) Exists and B.) is not punished harshly enough. If I were Blizzard, I'd not be scared to pirate games and simply sue every person who downloaded the game, every website that tried posting the game up for downloading. I would then hire hackers to create viruses that destroys and erases hard drives and put those up as free downloads on torrent sites so that people who do download get viruses that harm the entire computer maliciously. I would infest every single torrent site with as many viruses as I can to make it so harmful and dangerous to download "free" content that no one would download anymore. I would be more aggressive, less compromising, and less friendly than Blizzard is because my personality believes that if you punish people for doing something wrong, in time they will stop doing it en mass. But I'm not Blizzard. Blizzard would rather try nicer fixes like no LAN than simply spreading viruses, malwares and hack accounts. Because of Blizzard's lax punishment system--people are willing to say "I don't want to buy this game because I'm going to pirate it anyway." Why? Because the punishment for pirating is almost zero.
The music industry tried this and it didn't work.
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On June 24 2011 00:34 Lodgeinator wrote:Show nested quote +If I were Blizzard, I'd not be scared to pirate games and simply sue every person who downloaded the game, every website that tried posting the game up for downloading. I would then hire hackers to create viruses that destroys and erases hard drives and put those up as free downloads on torrent sites so that people who do download get viruses that harm the entire computer maliciously. I would infest every single torrent site with as many viruses as I can to make it so harmful and dangerous to download "free" content that no one would download anymore.
This is very illigal.
Yes. I agree. Torrent sites are very illegal.
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On June 24 2011 00:34 splinter9 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 00:31 lorkac wrote:On June 24 2011 00:21 Zarahtra wrote:On June 24 2011 00:14 Tyree wrote:A company should only fear piracy if they are producing bad products. So let me get this straight, if you make a quality product less people will pirate it? Its the other way around Look at various torrent sites ( i know you know them) and see what the most popular games and movies are pirated, it is usually high profile games that cost millions to make. The most popular game to get a N64 emulator for are OoT and Mario 64, how many people do you think tried to snag a Superman 64 rom? Only the few demented people who wanted to see just how horrible it is. I agree that it is sad we cant have LAN, but the reasoning makes perfect sense. My point is, if the product is good enough, people will buy it. A lot of people might download it, don't get me wrong, but if they were ever going to buy the game, they would likely do so even if they downloaded it. If they would never have bought the game no matter, then you've just reached out to one more customer, which *might* buy it, but in the least(assuming the product is good) have a positive attitude towards the game/company when talking about it. So yes, a good product might be downloaded more, but that's not really something to fear, while a bad one has a good reason to fear it. The problem with the logic "They wouldn't buy it anyway" is that the only reason people have the thinking of "I won't buy this game I'm playing" is because pirate culture both A.) Exists and B.) is not punished harshly enough. If I were Blizzard, I'd not be scared to pirate games and simply sue every person who downloaded the game, every website that tried posting the game up for downloading. I would then hire hackers to create viruses that destroys and erases hard drives and put those up as free downloads on torrent sites so that people who do download get viruses that harm the entire computer maliciously. I would infest every single torrent site with as many viruses as I can to make it so harmful and dangerous to download "free" content that no one would download anymore. I would be more aggressive, less compromising, and less friendly than Blizzard is because my personality believes that if you punish people for doing something wrong, in time they will stop doing it en mass. But I'm not Blizzard. Blizzard would rather try nicer fixes like no LAN than simply spreading viruses, malwares and hack accounts. Because of Blizzard's lax punishment system--people are willing to say "I don't want to buy this game because I'm going to pirate it anyway." Why? Because the punishment for pirating is almost zero. The music industry tried this and it didn't work.
Actually, the music industry never tried to fill torrent sites with as many harmful viruses as they could. They never got on Napster and started to post several hundred thousand songs that contained viruses just to punish napster users.
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Nope, Sony put rootkits on their CDs instead. No need to download that stuff from torrents
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On June 24 2011 00:31 lorkac wrote:If I were Blizzard, I'd not be scared to pirate games and simply sue every person who downloaded the game, every website that tried posting the game up for downloading. I would then hire hackers to create viruses that destroys and erases hard drives and put those up as free downloads on torrent sites so that people who do download get viruses that harm the entire computer maliciously. I would infest every single torrent site with as many viruses as I can to make it so harmful and dangerous to download "free" content that no one would download anymore.
I would be more aggressive, less compromising, and less friendly than Blizzard is because my personality believes that if you punish people for doing something wrong, in time they will stop doing it en mass.
But I'm not Blizzard. Blizzard would rather try nicer fixes like no LAN than simply spreading viruses, malwares and hack accounts.
How foolish are you? You honestly think that a massive corporation like Blizzard Entertainment would be able to spread malicious code and not get in trouble with the law? They aren't vigilantes who are going to risk getting in a huge class action lawsuit for some petty revenge. Have some common sense.
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On June 24 2011 00:41 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 00:34 splinter9 wrote:On June 24 2011 00:31 lorkac wrote:On June 24 2011 00:21 Zarahtra wrote:On June 24 2011 00:14 Tyree wrote:A company should only fear piracy if they are producing bad products. So let me get this straight, if you make a quality product less people will pirate it? Its the other way around Look at various torrent sites ( i know you know them) and see what the most popular games and movies are pirated, it is usually high profile games that cost millions to make. The most popular game to get a N64 emulator for are OoT and Mario 64, how many people do you think tried to snag a Superman 64 rom? Only the few demented people who wanted to see just how horrible it is. I agree that it is sad we cant have LAN, but the reasoning makes perfect sense. My point is, if the product is good enough, people will buy it. A lot of people might download it, don't get me wrong, but if they were ever going to buy the game, they would likely do so even if they downloaded it. If they would never have bought the game no matter, then you've just reached out to one more customer, which *might* buy it, but in the least(assuming the product is good) have a positive attitude towards the game/company when talking about it. So yes, a good product might be downloaded more, but that's not really something to fear, while a bad one has a good reason to fear it. The problem with the logic "They wouldn't buy it anyway" is that the only reason people have the thinking of "I won't buy this game I'm playing" is because pirate culture both A.) Exists and B.) is not punished harshly enough. If I were Blizzard, I'd not be scared to pirate games and simply sue every person who downloaded the game, every website that tried posting the game up for downloading. I would then hire hackers to create viruses that destroys and erases hard drives and put those up as free downloads on torrent sites so that people who do download get viruses that harm the entire computer maliciously. I would infest every single torrent site with as many viruses as I can to make it so harmful and dangerous to download "free" content that no one would download anymore. I would be more aggressive, less compromising, and less friendly than Blizzard is because my personality believes that if you punish people for doing something wrong, in time they will stop doing it en mass. But I'm not Blizzard. Blizzard would rather try nicer fixes like no LAN than simply spreading viruses, malwares and hack accounts. Because of Blizzard's lax punishment system--people are willing to say "I don't want to buy this game because I'm going to pirate it anyway." Why? Because the punishment for pirating is almost zero. The music industry tried this and it didn't work. Actually, the music industry never tried to fill torrent sites with as many harmful viruses as they could. They never got on Napster and started to post several hundred thousand songs that contained viruses just to punish napster users.
They would if they could (after all, they wouldn't be doing it themselves, just some paid hackers*).
The thing is, comments, ratings, anti-virus, trusted users and release groups prevent this from being viable. There have been tons of malicious releases, but they get easily filtered.
*They can get a lot of bad advertising and maybe even get sued if the hackers betray them, though.
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On June 24 2011 00:31 lorkac wrote:
If I were Blizzard, I'd not be scared to pirate games and simply sue every person who downloaded the game, every website that tried posting the game up for downloading. I would then hire hackers to create viruses that destroys and erases hard drives and put those up as free downloads on torrent sites so that people who do download get viruses that harm the entire computer maliciously. I would infest every single torrent site with as many viruses as I can to make it so harmful and dangerous to download "free" content that no one would download anymore.
That would be illegal.
It also wouldn't work, at all. Music companies already tried filling up sites with junk downloads. As always, the scene evolved and it now doesn't work at all.
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Yes. I agree. Torrent sites are very illegal.
...The spreading of viruses is very illigal, if blizzard got caught then they would face penalties.
Also torrent sites are not illigal at all.
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thats really like banning sex just because sex will transmit AIDS
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On June 24 2011 00:31 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 00:21 Zarahtra wrote:On June 24 2011 00:14 Tyree wrote:A company should only fear piracy if they are producing bad products. So let me get this straight, if you make a quality product less people will pirate it? Its the other way around Look at various torrent sites ( i know you know them) and see what the most popular games and movies are pirated, it is usually high profile games that cost millions to make. The most popular game to get a N64 emulator for are OoT and Mario 64, how many people do you think tried to snag a Superman 64 rom? Only the few demented people who wanted to see just how horrible it is. I agree that it is sad we cant have LAN, but the reasoning makes perfect sense. My point is, if the product is good enough, people will buy it. A lot of people might download it, don't get me wrong, but if they were ever going to buy the game, they would likely do so even if they downloaded it. If they would never have bought the game no matter, then you've just reached out to one more customer, which *might* buy it, but in the least(assuming the product is good) have a positive attitude towards the game/company when talking about it. So yes, a good product might be downloaded more, but that's not really something to fear, while a bad one has a good reason to fear it. The problem with the logic "They wouldn't buy it anyway" is that the only reason people have the thinking of "I won't buy this game I'm playing" is because pirate culture both A.) Exists and B.) is not punished harshly enough.
That's an assumption, which you have no way of backing up, not to mention it adds nothing to the subject.
If A) the pirated culture didn't exist, then... we're in a different world and prices would possibly be lower, companies would likely need to spend more money on advertisement, etc etc but in the end it doesn't really matter, that's not the reality we live in.
If B) that's atleast not really a world I'd want to live in. Punishing harsher would require a lot more privacy loss(which is already getting extinct) over the internet.
There are however toooons of research on the "lost sales" subject. Quick google search resulted fx in this: Linkie(this one mind is music) which show calculated losses are grossly exaggerated. There are plenty of more detailed ones that have been made over the years.
It is my believe these industries(especially the music one) should rather embrace technology and work with it, rather than pissing in the costumers faces and pointing in a random direction and yelling "monsters, they be stealing joo".
PS. Gl making a buisness with that attitude. Alienating a huge portion of possible costumers/friends of your customers is a good buisness move.
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On June 24 2011 00:34 Lodgeinator wrote:Show nested quote +If I were Blizzard, I'd not be scared to pirate games and simply sue every person who downloaded the game, every website that tried posting the game up for downloading. I would then hire hackers to create viruses that destroys and erases hard drives and put those up as free downloads on torrent sites so that people who do download get viruses that harm the entire computer maliciously. I would infest every single torrent site with as many viruses as I can to make it so harmful and dangerous to download "free" content that no one would download anymore.
This is very illigal.
Jesus christ. Let's just operate chips into people's brains instead. It's people with psychopathic opinions like his we should be afraid of. Not pirates. Open your eyes to the real threat here people.
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Pirating is a loophole in the supply demand chain. Its a way of getting something for free and side stepping the whole trade arrangement. Its going to be abused and taken to the fullest extent every time. No consumer in the right mind pays more then they have to, and with pirating they can pay zero.
The whole idea of people as saints and buying a game because they have decided that the developer deserves the money after using their software for "x" number of hours is bullshit at best.
Pirating is wrong, but due to the lopsided power distribution of the consumer and supply, pirates by and large can get away with anything under the general idea that because tracking them down is a nuisance logistically and a nightmare legally, they can do as they please. Then they fabricate some pseudo-soapbox stand on free speech or some shit and try to alleviate the burden of responsibility from the conscience and place it squarely on the developers for not working hard enough.
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EPT
